Humor in ritual?

[Meirya]

Speaking of ritual etiquette...

A friend and I had a long debate over humor in rituals, and I was wondering what you all thought. A lot of the people I know are rather snarky sarcastic types, and sometimes small rituals among these people can be periodically interspersed with comments, laughter, and a bit of silliness.

What's your take on this? Is humor and silliness ever acceptable in ritual other than, say, Beltane or a chaos ritual?

[Dio]

Why not laugh? There is never a bad time or place for humor. As long as it isn't being disrespectful or disruptive, why not? Silly, random things happen in ritual all the time. Robes catching on fire, cats walking in doing their odd cat things, people accidentally snorting wine up their nose... *shrug* Ritual can be very funny.

[Jolantru]

I don't think humor is an essentially bad thing in/during ritual. In fact, sometimes humor has a way of deepening the feel/significance of the ritual. Of course, the usual dictum: "Right place, right time."

Cheers,
Jolantru

[RunningRiot]

Personally I do not condone with humour in my rituals, unless the ritual itself is humours.

[Meabh23]

In my opinion, humor is a good thing. Rituals, no matter how urgent, should always have that celebratory humor, that perkiness, that divine energy.

[Philosophia]

Depends on th situation. If its a very serious ritual, and somebody started laughing, then I don't think that would be very appropriate.
However, if its something celebratory or anything "light", then humour is more than welcome. But it does depend on the ritual itself and the participants.

[FaeryChild]

I think it depends on the ritual and the people involved. If everyone is laughing, then laughing is fine. Interrupting the HP or HPs, on the other hand, with laughing or side conversations is just not cool.

[Nacken]

It is fine as long as it isn't too disruptive or mean. Never laugh at the High Priestess if her hair catches on fire for instance. Hair or sleeves on fire happen a lot.

[Kendrah]

I've never had a ritual were humor wasn't involved in it *somewhere*, so I can't really tell you if it's better to not have humor. Sorry. ;P

[star_belfire]

As everyone has said it deppends on the ritual.

At the moment I'm a solitary so if I'm laughing durring a ritual I either triped or something banged outside of the circle and I broke out laughing, one of those "send me a sign" moments.

Rituals are serious bussiness but that doesn't mean that something can't bring a smile to your face :hahugh:

[Spirited]

Rituals with Faeries inevitably lead to much pain (from hitting your shin on the desk when calling the Quarters) and confusion, but it's all in a strangely funny kind of way. Even if it really hurts. So I think humour is important. I always seem to get better results if something stupid has happened, anyway :nyah:

[Morgandria]

"Reverence AND mirth" are involved in my coven's rites. I would think that everyone was dead or asleep or bored if no-one was cracking wise. My high priest is the worst offender.

[AlleyCat]

To say no would make me a hypocrit, I've done and said some of the dumbest things in ritual and of course in front of others and Mouse can assure you there has been a lot of laughter in our workings but also a lot of seriousness if there needs to be :) I think a mix of both is needed and depends on the situation and the deities and people involved

[Windsmith]

Speaking of ritual etiquette...

A friend and I had a long debate over humor in rituals, and I was wondering what you all thought. A lot of the people I know are rather snarky sarcastic types, and sometimes small rituals among these people can be periodically interspersed with comments, laughter, and a bit of silliness.

What's your take on this? Is humor and silliness ever acceptable in ritual other than, say, Beltane or a chaos ritual?Wow. I can hardly believe I'm going to say this, but...there may be a big difference between "humor and silliness" and what you describe as happening in small rituals.

I've been involved in plenty of rituals that incorporated humor. Elemental invocations involving bare-assed chefs and dying caribou (no, really, both of those were funny); rituals where the main working (the "tofu" of the ritual, as my vegan friend calls it) was a round-robin reading of Dr. Suess's "Oh, the Places You'll Go." I think a ritual where humor has no place at all runs a serious danger of collapsing from sheer ponderousness, and the participants may get an over-inflated sense of the ritual's importance.

But I wonder what, exactly, you mean by the ritual being "interspersed" with comments, laughter, and silliness. Do you mean that sometimes funny things happen in ritual or that the ritual plan is for silliness? I'm all for that. But if you mean that people are making funny comments and goofing off when other things are going on in the ritual, then that's not humor, it's garden variety rudeness and should be nipped quite nippily in the bud!

[Meirya]

Thanks for all the responses!


I think a ritual where humor has no place at all runs a serious danger of collapsing from sheer ponderousness, and the participants may get an over-inflated sense of the ritual's importance.

Agreed. Even the most serious rituals I've been to (StoneCreed Grove's public rituals - Stonecreed's an ADF grove) have some humor. Usually occurs when someone makes a mistake, or there's a problem with the fire or candles or somesuch, and someone makes a joke about it to make it less jarring. Or when the ale's being passed around...


But I wonder what, exactly, you mean by the ritual being "interspersed" with comments, laughter, and silliness. Do you mean that sometimes funny things happen in ritual or that the ritual plan is for silliness? I'm all for that. But if you mean that people are making funny comments and goofing off when other things are going on in the ritual, then that's not humor, it's garden variety rudeness and should be nipped quite nippily in the bud!

Sometimes funny things happen in ritual; occasionally the ritual plan is for silliness. Soemtimes it's comments. For example... this past Imbolc, the norse practicioner of our group was leading ritual. He'd decided, rather than his usual ritual format, that he'd try using some pieces from a book ("Rites of Odin" by Ed Fitch). He used the Odhinn invokation (and we were all very good and made no comments about horny one-eyed old bastards; that was saved for post-ritual feast), and then the Freyja invocation - which had one phrase that went along the lines of "she who, after the birthing of [some child of Freyja's], became virginal once more..." and, well, we kind of lost it. Yes, Freyja in her aspect as Getha (sp?) is virginal, but the idea of Freyja being a virgin was just... overly amusing. I think someone might have gasped out "Virgin?!", and something along the lines of "For what, five minutes?" might have been said.

A friend was quietly trying to keep from snickering most of the ritual and doing a decent job of it - but he'd made the mistake of invoking Loki, and thus had mr. tall and fiery making snarky comments in his ear the whole time.

Or there was the Samhain a couple years ago (I wasn't present, but I've heard the story a number of times) when a friend of mine who belongs to the Morrigan invoked her. After ritual, but before circle was closed up, they were passing around cakes and ale and my friend got a bit... toasty. So then it came time to close circle, and everyone dismissed their own deities, and then it was my friend's turn. She looks up, thumps her chest twice and holds up a sort of peace sign while saying "Yo bitch. Peace out." It was like the parting of the red sea; everyone around her moved away about five feet, waiting for the divine smite. (Fortunately, the Morrigan has a sense of humor.) After a little while, my friend rose and did a more formal devocation.

Now, I will agree that this was a bit inappropriate. However - as another example of silliness and such - in occasional rituals where this friend is present, sometimes a few of us will silently thump our chests and hold up the peace sign as a wordless joke (usually during cakes and ale or some other not-quite-serious momen). We laugh, and then we move on to more serious things.

I have a lot of stories like the above few; but those are some examples. It's not generally a case of disrespect, and it doesn't usually detract from ritual. It doesn't usually get out of hand with someone saying something every few minutes; that would disrupt ritual too much.

Does that make sense?

[Nitefalle]

I think humor is absolutely necessary!!!! In fact, last Midsummer, we evoked a goddess of laughter AND the Fae hordes....well goodness, we just couldn't stop giggling for about an hour. It was awesome. I find that humor can help put people at ease, especially if you're working together for the first time or some people are less experienced and therefore self conscious. My group attendance tends to fluctuate quite a bit and all the people are at different stages in their experiences; we often have new people who show up for awhile or become permanent members. That's how I work my rituals, through humor and love, and the energies always work their way through, the gods always make their presence known. Somehow, it all works out and our rituals kick ass. If something goes wrong, throw in a giggle or a snicker! It'll all be alright in the end. :hehehehe:

PS - That story about your friend & the Morrigan is freakin' hilarious!!!! Once, years ago, for a Beltane ritual, I was devoking the energies of the South and I drew a blank...so I just said "Hey, thanks for coming and party on!" My group looked at me for a moment, blinked and busted out laughing. Then made jokes about angry basilisks setting me on fire and using me to roast marshmallows.

[Paracelsus]

A good, honest, belly laugh is a must - as the chaos magickians say "banish with laughter" - but laughing at people is just bitchcraft.

[Dawa Lhamo]

We have a saying: Once the circle is cast, whatever happens, She wanted it to happen.

I'm firmly of the belief that if a magician or witch takes himself too seriously, he's doing something wrong.

It's common in my rituals for some element of humour to be introduced by someone at some point. It just happens.

I think the Gods have a better sense of humour than many of their worshippers. ^_^

But that's just me.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[BlueMoon13]

We have a saying: Once the circle is cast, whatever happens, She wanted it to happen.

I'm firmly of the belief that if a magician or witch takes himself too seriously, he's doing something wrong.

It's common in my rituals for some element of humour to be introduced by someone at some point. It just happens.

I think the Gods have a better sense of humour than many of their worshippers. ^_^


Could'nt have said it better me-self! :hugz:

[Windsmith]

Yes, Freyja in her aspect as Getha (sp?) is virginal, but the idea of Freyja being a virgin was just... overly amusing. I think someone might have gasped out "Virgin?!", and something along the lines of "For what, five minutes?" might have been said.OK, yeah - that's pretty funny.


"Yo bitch. Peace out."

Now, I will agree that this was a bit inappropriate. However - as another example of silliness and such - in occasional rituals where this friend is present, sometimes a few of us will silently thump our chests and hold up the peace sign as a wordless joke (usually during cakes and ale or some other not-quite-serious momen). We laugh, and then we move on to more serious things.

I have a lot of stories like the above few; but those are some examples. It's not generally a case of disrespect, and it doesn't usually detract from ritual. It doesn't usually get out of hand with someone saying something every few minutes; that would disrupt ritual too much. I don't know that I would say that your friend's devocation was inappropriate. It depends a lot on her relationship with the Morrigan. I would never do something like that, because I don't have a relationship with Her, but maybe She and your friend have the kind of relationship that makes it OK. One of the sacred geezers in my group (his word, not mine!) often devokes Inanna by saying, "Thanks, hon. Love ya; mean it." If I ever tried something like that, I'd get the divine bitch-slap, but they've been working together for almost 20 years; he's earned it.

To me, what you've described doesn't sound too disruptive or disrespectful at all. It's just human nature. And I believe that that's what Mystery expects from us.

[Cindlady2]

We have a saying: Once the circle is cast, whatever happens, She wanted it to happen.

I'm firmly of the belief that if a magician or witch takes himself too seriously, he's doing something wrong.

It's common in my rituals for some element of humour to be introduced by someone at some point. It just happens.

I think the Gods have a better sense of humour than many of their worshippers. ^_^

But that's just me.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo


Grrrrrrr..... I don't even know where to start! In groups things have at times really gotten halorious! Our group has always had a problem with "fire"... it seems to hate us! Candles are forever going out... things catch on fire! Our bonfires get all weird... all kinds of things... we've learned to laugh, make jokes and move on! we've had thins fall over at handfastings, swords gone wild, animals humping just outside the circle... you name it! If it were a perfect world... maybe you could have a perfect ritual.... but it's not so you laugh and move on!:awilly:

One time during cakes and ale our "priest" decided to give some to the God and Goddess. With a chalice in one hand and the cake plate in the other, he looks up and yells "Here catch!" while tossing the contents of both in the air!
It was sooo funny but some how felt so right we often did it at other rituals!

The Goddess and I have had a few good laughs on our own too! But I won't get in to them... some were kinda' personal.
:nyah:

[ApollaJade]

I have a story for this one....

A friend of my mom's was asked to call fire for an opening ceremony for an event. He wasn't told what to say, everyone did their own thing. His was as follows:

" *picks up cell phone and holds to ear* Hello, Quarters 'R' Us? Yeah, we need some fire! *pause* Yeah, these pagans need some passion... (etc)"


Humor in ritual is nice if it's done properly, by the right type of person :D

[Theres]

as an initiated priest of Bill the Cat i'd have to say yes, humor is vital...

http://www.bimc.org/bimc/oldweb/bill.html

never take religion so seriously that you forget to laugh!


ACK!!!

[Vincent Verthaine]

as an initiated priest of Bill the Cat i'd have to say yes, humor is vital...

http://www.bimc.org/bimc/oldweb/bill.html

never take religion so seriously that you forget to laugh!


ACK!!!
hey,I was beginning to think that I was the only one here that is a priest of Bill the Cat.I was initiate into it by my dear friend Oblivian ten years ago.Good times then.
Ack Oop!.

Taking our rituals seriously is one of the most dangerous things a discordinian can do.

It's amazing how things change.
In the 60's most mainsteam pagans didn't even want to consider we discordians pagans when we brought up that same question.
20 years ago most pagans would have screamed out "blasphemy!' when the chaos mages brought out that same question.

Gee,and it only took 40 years to get to this point where humour is accepted,and not having a bunch of stuffy High Priests trying to call out a Pagan inquisition for even daring to raise such a question.

[FaeryChild]

One time during cakes and ale our "priest" decided to give some to the God and Goddess. With a chalice in one hand and the cake plate in the other, he looks up and yells "Here catch!" while tossing the contents of both in the air!
It was sooo funny but some how felt so right we often did it at other rituals!


I am so using that now. Considering the next group ritual for me is Beltane it may actually be work.