Countries that accept Pagans

[Keshia]

What countries accept Pagans more than the USA (probably all of them)? Or which have more Pagans?

These probably aren't good questions since so many like to stay in the broom closet but thought I'd ask anyway.

[kal]

its pretty good over here in scotland nobody really bothers what your faith is :wave:
there are tons of groups and gatherings to goto there is never any trouble

[StormVixen]

iceland aparently....

englands good too ive never had problems apart from at school... but i was "different" so what can you do really...

[Dawa Lhamo]

I don't think all that many of them... are you talking about citizens or the gov't? Because despite many of the citizens, the US gov't is rather friendly to every religion...

If you take Pagan to be anything outside of Abrahamic religions, then of course you've got pretty much all of Asia, and I would assume much of Africa. And most everywhere in Europe is accepting, even if, like the US, they're not typically overjoyed. Iceland is particularly accepting, yes.

It really depends on your view of what "Pagan" means...

Who has the most? Well, I would assume somewhere like India, going with the above def'n.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Nacken]

Generally Catholic countries are less accepting. I would think that the Moslem world is even less so.

[The Pictish Druid]

Any nation which is not Islamic or Communist.

[The Pictish Druid]

its pretty good over here in scotland nobody really bothers what your faith is :wave:
there are tons of groups and gatherings to goto there is never any trouble

According to the title of an article in a Scottish newspaper: "Scotland is Now Pagan". The article went on to explain that only 16% of the Scottish population attend the 'Kirk' (CoS). The truth of the matter is that Scotland is now secular, but it would not surprise me if paganism is the fastest growing belief system in Scotland. A far cry from the repressive post-Reformation days when witches were regularly burned.

[Shanti]

I don't think all that many of them... are you talking about citizens or the gov't? Because despite many of the citizens, the US gov't is rather friendly to every religion...

If you take Pagan to be anything outside of Abrahamic religions, then of course you've got pretty much all of Asia, and I would assume much of Africa. And most everywhere in Europe is accepting, even if, like the US, they're not typically overjoyed. Iceland is particularly accepting, yes.

It really depends on your view of what "Pagan" means...

Who has the most? Well, I would assume somewhere like India, going with the above def'n.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo
India is mostly Muslim!

[Elderbush]

According to the title of an article in a Scottish newspaper: "Scotland is Now Pagan". The article went on to explain that only 16% of the Scottish population attend the 'Kirk' (CoS). The truth of the matter is that Scotland is now secular, but it would not surprise me if paganism is the fastest growing belief system in Scotland. A far cry from the repressive post-Reformation days when witches were regularly burned.


I thought only a handful of people were actually burned in Scotland the post-Reformation days no matter how lurid the trial and details. I do not have a firm figure but I thought it was under 10. Does any have the figures handy?

[The Pictish Druid]

India is mostly Muslim!

No it is mostly Hindu. You must be confused with Pakistahn.

[The Pictish Druid]

I thought only a handful of people were actually burned in Scotland the post-Reformation days no matter how lurid the trial and details. I do not have a firm figure but I thought it was under 10. Does any have the figures handy?

There were 81 in Prestonpans:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/print/2004/10/30/world/witches041030

I'll have a look for other sources.

[Shanti]

No it is mostly Hindu. You must be confused with Pakistahn.

No just confusing my religions!! LOL

[The Pictish Druid]

I am not sure if this gives the exact numbers of pagans/witches who were burned, but it gives an account of the witchcraft persecutions.
http://members.aol.com/skyelander/menu13.html

Throughout Europe there were many witch hunts and many were tortured into making confessions. If they confessed and 'recanted' their Pagan beliefs they were saved from the witch burnings. So maybe in this respect there were fewer burnings.

[Seshata]

But then again, there's no proof that they were 'witches'. Also remember that for example in Spain there was that thing about burning effigies and counting them as people (even though some of them were already dead)! Another point is that (I think) that more men were accused in places like Scandinavia.

BB

Seshata

[Elderbush]

What I meant was not how many were killed but how many were actually burned in Scotland although the other number is good to know.:) Far more were burnt in France and Continental Europe, mainly in the countries with large Protestant groups, I believe. It was more a Protestant thing than Catholic.

[Seshata]

Another interesting point is that changes of power and religious affiliation seemed to affect when the 'persecutions' were more rife.

BB

Seshata

[Ben Gruagach]

India is mostly Muslim!

I thought that the Hindu and Buddhist religions outnumbered the Muslims in India. (Hinduism and Buddhism originated in India, after all.)

And despite some countries such as those in Africa having some native Pagan religions, they are not necessarily welcoming to other Pagan faiths especially ones that use magick. There is a real problem in Africa right now with people being forced out of communities, even killed, because they have been accused of being "witches." A lot of these "witches" are little kids.

[Shanti]

I thought that the Hindu and Buddhist religions outnumbered the Muslims in India. (Hinduism and Buddhism originated in India, after all.)

And despite some countries such as those in Africa having some native Pagan religions, they are not necessarily welcoming to other Pagan faiths especially ones that use magick. There is a real problem in Africa right now with people being forced out of communities, even killed, because they have been accused of being "witches." A lot of these "witches" are little kids.
I said I got my religions mixed up!! I hear Muslim so much these days that thats what my fingers typed while my brain was trying to say..hey wake up fool..wrong one!! :lol:

[Shanti]

And Indias Hindu mostly 80 plus %. Muslim is second. Buddhism is low on the list, like .8% give or take a point!!

[The Pictish Druid]

Far more were burnt in France and Continental Europe, mainly in the countries with large Protestant groups, I believe. It was more a Protestant thing than Catholic.

But France is Roman Catholic and Scotland is Protestant. None were burnt in England, which had other methods of execution.

[Elderbush]

You forgot the Huguenots in France. There were more witch trials on the continent (I'm reading up on this now). Yes, I think that the Catholics did burn some too but the whole thing is complicated because people were burnt for heresy and treason (women in England) and not witchcraft.

[AvalonsBlueRose]

Although we have the First Amendement protecting our freedom of religion, my experince is that America is not as friendly to other faiths as our laws make it appear. I'm very happy to say in my city, we do celebrate Pagan Pride Day at our biggest public park and there's been no problems, and in my area I haven't had too much trouble. However, when dealing with Americans across the board, sometimes I get incrediably angry at what people in this nation go through in a country that is supposed to vaule freedom of expression.

[SageofThyme]

[QUOTE=Ben Gruagach] I thought that the Hindu and Buddhist religions outnumbered the Muslims in India. (Hinduism and Buddhism originated in India, after all.)

[QUOTE]


Ten years ago I did write an essay on India -then (I think the figures were from 1991) Hindu were 82% of the population, 12% muslim, 2% christian, 1.9% sikhs, 1% buddhist and 0.5% Jains (approx).

I thought the Buddhist figure seemed low but then one percent is still a few million people

[Meabh23]

It really depends on what you call "Pagan."

If you mean a complex of various cults, some of which are polytheistic, then Hinduism would qualify. In that case much of India and Nepal is Pagan. If you don't mind an overlay of Christianity, much of the Andes in South America follows traditional beliefs...could they be considered Pagan?

In terms of "Pagan" the way most American Pagans mean it, I would say the US, Canada, Australia, England, and other western countries are most accepting. Though in much of Asia no one would really mind either.

As far as the Burning Times idea, that needs to be laid to rest. Those people killed in that period were not Pagans.

[Cain]

its pretty good over here in scotland nobody really bothers what your faith is :wave:
there are tons of groups and gatherings to goto there is never any trouble

Unless your a Protestant/Catholic and walk into the wrong pubs in Glasgow....

I would say anywhere in Europe or the USA/Canada would be pretty easy going as they have freedom of religion enshrined in their laws.

[Ben Gruagach]

As far as the Burning Times idea, that needs to be laid to rest. Those people killed in that period were not Pagans.

Whether the victims of those times were Pagan in terms of today isn't really relevant. If today's Pagans were alive back then, as Pagans, they would definitely have been among those charged and likely convicted and executed. If you weren't following the majority faith then it was a capital crime.

[Cain]

Whether the victims of those times were Pagan in terms of today isn't really relevant. If today's Pagans were alive back then, as Pagans, they would definitely have been among those charged and likely convicted and executed. If you weren't following the majority faith then it was a capital crime.

Surely their actual faith was relevant to them. If they were mostly (if not near totally) Christian peasants, as the evidence seems to suggest, isn't it offensive to their beliefs to use them as part of Pagan propaganda?

We can "if" and "but" and "what if", but the facts tend to speak for themselves. They weren't pagans who were killed and pagans who talk about "the Burning Times" really need to stfu. Telling us their was repression and murder on a grand scale under Christianity is as obvious as saying Hitler wasn't a nice man and Stalin was someone you didnt want to be suspicious of you.

If you keep your heads buried in the atrocities of the past you will miss the atrocities of the present.

[The Pictish Druid]

its the first step to world domination _twohorns_

Here is a link to the newspaper article:
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=538302002

IMO it would have been more appropriate to use the term 'secular' rather than 'pagan'.

[David19]

I think most countries seem pretty accepting (although no one knows i am yet, but then i'm in the closet about a lot of things). I think in England, no one gives cares what religion you are -christian, muslim pagan, Jewish, whatever, etc. My dad's catholic and he doesn't seem to care (and my mum's not religious) and the they either pretty much think their pagans are a bit 'mad' or something (but my mum thinks all religions, excluding buddhism , are insane including christianity).

I heard in Iceland is pretty accpeting (like Asatru is a legal religion) and France seems to be as long as you don't put religion in public (any religion which includes christianity, islam, pagans, whatever, etc).

That's why i think secularism is the way to go and that the world could learn a lot from cuba and some other communist countries (they don't let religion get control of the government and also don't push it into peopkle's face like in Cuba, most people are Catholic or Saterian, with a small Jewish community, but they keep it to themselves).

[Ben Gruagach]

Surely their actual faith was relevant to them. If they were mostly (if not near totally) Christian peasants, as the evidence seems to suggest, isn't it offensive to their beliefs to use them as part of Pagan propaganda?

We can "if" and "but" and "what if", but the facts tend to speak for themselves. They weren't pagans who were killed and pagans who talk about "the Burning Times" really need to stfu. Telling us their was repression and murder on a grand scale under Christianity is as obvious as saying Hitler wasn't a nice man and Stalin was someone you didnt want to be suspicious of you.

If you keep your heads buried in the atrocities of the past you will miss the atrocities of the present.

This thread though is about which countries are or would be likely to be welcoming towards today's Pagans.

I was just saying that back during the "burning times" it didn't matter what your real religion was, if the authorities thought you weren't following the official mainstream religion then it was sufficient grounds for prosecution and often execution.

If we "stfu" about history how will we ever learn the lessons of the past? How can we avoid repeating the mistakes of the past if we constantly assume that today has no relation to the past? The fact that even one person, regardless whether they were a "real" Pagan or not, was killed on the basis of an accusation that they were not following the mainstream religion, is a lesson that still desperately needs to be examined today.

[Theres]

What I meant was not how many were killed but how many were actually burned in Scotland although the other number is good to know.:) Far more were burnt in France and Continental Europe, mainly in the countries with large Protestant groups, I believe. It was more a Protestant thing than Catholic.

my understanding is that Scotland and (i think) Germany were the only countries where burning was used on a regular basis for 'heresey'.

as far as the most Pagan tolerant country, i'd have to say right here in the US.
i live in a very heavily 'Paganized' part of the country (PNW), and i have experienced no religion-related problems. my boss is Pagan, as are my landlords and all of my friends, and none of them have any stories of intolerance towards them for their beliefs either.

yeah, i think you'd have a hard time finding a more tolerant area than Oregon/Washington.

[Meabh23]

But, Mr. Gruagach, the persecutions actually resulted in more people being killed in sectarian Protestant-Catholic fighting. Each of these people probably thought of themselves as devout in some way.

In today's world, unlike a previous poster said, Africa would be accepting of Pagans in many areas, just be careful about that "witch" word. You must admit that even in English for most non-Pagans, it has a negative meaning.

[kal]

Unless your a Protestant/Catholic and walk into the wrong pubs in Glasgow....

I would say anywhere in Europe or the USA/Canada would be pretty easy going as they have freedom of religion enshrined in their laws.
i didnt mention that because thats more to do with football than faith
rangers protestant and celtic catholic the town i live in is classed as
the most protestant town in the whole of scotland

[Keshia]

yeah, i think you'd have a hard time finding a more tolerant area than Oregon/Washington.

Reading this makes me want to move into that area even more as I'm also looking into places that accept/have high midwifery rates. It seems like that area and England, Scotland are on the top of my lists to visit. But exactly where in all of these areas are the most tolerant? Cuz I don't believe I'll be able go through the whole states/countries on my first visit LOL

As far as seeing the US on here, I'm finding that interesting as Pagans are being put into jail and kicked out of school and being exposed to so much crap for their beliefs. Then again, I live in the Bible Belt. I guess it depends on exactly WHERE in these countries are the most tolerant.

And to the meaning of Pagan, I meant anything other than Christianity (I think that's the meaning?).

Thanks for all the replies! It's making for an interesting read.

[Theres]

But exactly where in all of these areas are the most tolerant? Cuz I don't believe I'll be able go through the whole states/countries on my first visit LOL.

well it's probably a good rule of thumb that the closer you are to a metropolitan area the more tolerance you'll find. even up here things get pretty redneck the further out in the country you go. so while Seattle and Portland are almost dominantly Pagan, there are areas in the eastern parts of these states where you're more likely to run into a neo-Nazi than a thinking human!


(and i think the modern generic definition of Pagan is any non-Abrahamic religion... ie, Christian, Muslim or Jew).

[Keshia]

so while Seattle and Portland are almost dominantly Pagan,

Do you know which one is moreso or are they about the same?

[Theres]

well i live near Portland so i'm more familiar with the community here. but i think Seattle is about the same. i have a number of friends up there who are very active in the Pagan scene.

i'm probably spoiled, as this is just the way it is for me. but i read some of the horror stories other people from around the US post about, and i'm thinking "wow, what country do they live in?".
hell, it's not uncommon to see Christmas lights in the shape of a pentacle around here during the holidays!

:)

[SageofThyme]

i didnt mention that because thats more to do with football than faith
rangers protestant and celtic catholic the town i live in is classed as
the most protestant town in the whole of scotland

I've always found Scotland very friendly (I visit Glasgow often and try to poke my nose to other areas when I have the time)

Howver football and divide people just as much as any religion!

[kal]

I've always found Scotland very friendly (I visit Glasgow often and try to poke my nose to other areas when I have the time)

Howver football and divide people just as much as any religion! it is great its because scotland's two biggest football teams are in glasgow
one a protestant history and the other catholic it kind of splitts the city
if you got in to a bar or part of the city with the wrong top on you might not make it out

[Ishtara]

I must say that I am amazed at how tolerant of other faiths people are here in Vancouver, BC.
I would call Canada in general a very tolerant country anyway, but Vancouver benefits from the "West Coast bubble" phenomena (ie a somewhat more laid-back approach to life) and the fact that it is a larger city (more anonymous, more diverse cultural influences).

In France where I am from, on the other hand... the French are a very secular people to begin with and most are leery of anything having to do with religion, even mainstream faiths.
To give you an idea of the "religious awareness" there, my father and I were one of the few Lutherans in a predominantly Catholic part of the country and people would regularly ask us if we were Christians :lol:
When it comes to minority faiths, they are quick to be branded cults ("sectes"), as in harmful cults.

Quite frankly, I do not think I would have had the guts to come out as a Kemetic there.
Here in Vancouver, my friends know about my faith and do not have any problem with it. I took my oath of Canadian citizenship last week and I was allowed to bring a Holy Book of my choice to take the oath on. I chose the Book of Coming Forth by Day (book of the Dead). Now that is what I call religious freedom.
:)

[Keshia]

What about New Zealand?

[Philosophia]

Australia is pretty leniant about pagan religions. I've experianced no troubles and have never been in the "broom closet".

[SageofThyme]

it is great its because scotland's two biggest football teams are in glasgow
one a protestant history and the other catholic it kind of splitts the city
if you got in to a bar or part of the city with the wrong top on you might not make it out

You see I own a top for neither team....but have been chatted up by drunken fans of both teams (though I knew someone who was "very well known" at Celtic, and also someone that acted as a talent scout for them)

[Alora]

India is mostly Muslim!

Not true. India is mostly Hindu which would make it a Pagan country.
http://www.judypat.com/india/temple.htm

[Theres]

I took my oath of Canadian citizenship last week and I was allowed to bring a Holy Book of my choice to take the oath on. I chose the Book of Coming Forth by Day (book of the Dead). Now that is what I call religious freedom.
:)

that's pretty cool! :)

[Happy Shrew]

Not true. India is mostly Hindu which would make it a Pagan country.
http://www.judypat.com/india/temple.htm

The horse, it is dead.

[Ben Gruagach]

Here in Vancouver, my friends know about my faith and do not have any problem with it. I took my oath of Canadian citizenship last week and I was allowed to bring a Holy Book of my choice to take the oath on. I chose the Book of Coming Forth by Day (book of the Dead). Now that is what I call religious freedom.
:)

Welcome from another Canadian! (Hugs)

[Keshia]

Welcome from another Canadian! (Hugs)

Where in Canada? I was looking at Montreal (after Vancouver, as I know someone who visited there a while back and LOVED it) but it seems to be in the middle of nowhere.

[Ben Gruagach]

Where in Canada? I was looking at Montreal (after Vancouver, as I know someone who visited there a while back and LOVED it) but it seems to be in the middle of nowhere.

I'm from Toronto (grew up outside of Ottawa though) but now I'm living in the US. I'm in Minnesota now.

Montreal is nice too but if you live in Quebec you have to be willing to learn French. The rest of the country is mostly English.

[The Pictish Druid]

Not true. India is mostly Hindu which would make it a Pagan country.
http://www.judypat.com/india/temple.htm

According to most dictionaries 'pagan' is defined as anyone who follows any of the non-Abrahamic faiths. This would include Hinduism, but not everyone agrees that Hinduism is pagan. I'd be interseted to know if this forum is universally agreed on this point.

[Ben Gruagach]

According to most dictionaries 'pagan' is defined as anyone who follows any of the non-Abrahamic faiths. This would include Hinduism, but not everyone agrees that Hinduism is pagan. I'd be interseted to know if this forum is universally agreed on this point.

You'll find that the definition of Pagan (and also Witch and Wiccan) are things that are constantly debated. I doubt you'll find many places that will have a universally accepted definition.

This thread in the New Pagans FAQ section (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=73751) gives links to a number of places here on MysticWicks where we've debated the definitions of those words at great length (and over and over and over again.)

[The Pictish Druid]

Does anyone know about pagans living in Islamic nations? Before Islam was established these places had great pagan civilisations: Egypt, Babylon etc. One of their greatest achievements was the library of Alexandria. The pagan Greek culture contributed much to this library. Along came Christianity and then later Islam. The library was then destroyed and around the same time the Dark Ages began in both Europe and the Middle East.

[The Pictish Druid]

You'll find that the definition of Pagan (and also Witch and Wiccan) are things that are constantly debated. I doubt you'll find many places that will have a universally accepted definition.

This thread in the New Pagans FAQ section (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=73751) gives links to a number of places here on MysticWicks where we've debated the definitions of those words at great length (and over and over and over again.)

Both the words 'pagan' and 'heathen' came into use in the early period of Christianity when it was mostly town people who became Christian. The people of the country were called 'pagan' and most of them adhered to the old belief systems. In nothern Europe they were called heathens or people of the heaths.

[Ben Gruagach]

Does anyone know about pagans living in Islamic nations? Before Islam was established these places had great pagan civilisations: Egypt, Babylon etc. One of their greatest achievements was the library of Alexandria. The pagan Greek culture contributed much to this library. Along came Christianity and then later Islam. The library was then destroyed and around the same time the Dark Ages began in both Europe and the Middle East.

The famous library of Alexandria was in Egypt though, which I'm not sure is technically considered the middle east. (It's in Africa and not on the Arabian peninsula.)

[The Pictish Druid]

The famous library of Alexandria was in Egypt though, which I'm not sure is technically considered the middle east. (It's in Africa and not on the Arabian peninsula.)

Yes I know it was in Egypt, but the Greeks ruled Egypt before the Romans took over and the city of Alexandria was named after Alexander the Great. I usually find that Egypt is classed as being in the Middle East. Some people will even class the whole of N.Africa as being in the middle east, but this surely can't accurate. The misunderstandings or technical inaccuracies probably derived from the fact that these are all classed as Arab nations.

One of the points I was attempting to make was that these Islamic nations had a glorious past with all the great pagan civilisations and empires of the Egyptians, Persians, Babylonians, etc. Along with the Greeks they made a great contribution to the development of our Western civilisation. It is so sad that these palces are now so backward and repressive.

Something which maybe worthy of an enquiry is: to what extent has Islamic culture been influenced by these ancient civilisations?