Tempest-Please Read

[dademan]

Tempest

On Feb 20, 2001, a 12-year-old girl named Tempest Smith hanged herself in her bedroom because kids at school harassed her for being a Wiccan and dressing Goth. She was a beautiful, shy girl, but did not waver from her path. Instead she suffered, and when it got too bad, she ended this existence. Her mother has started a Tempest Smith foundation (www.tempestsmithfoundation.org) to help educate.
Please donate to her foundation if you can, and wear a black ribbon for Tempest on Feb. 20th.

Tempest Smith, Age 12 - 1988-2001
Hidden Hatred Haunts Pagans.
There can be only one explanation: A spell has been cast upon the United States.
Thanks in part to the popularity of the Harry Potter books and to television shows such as 'Charmed' and 'Sabrina, The Teenage Witch, everyone in America knows what a spell is. Spells are something cast by Witches and maybe even by a whole coven of those Witches. Witches and spells are linked forever in the American psyche- sort of like ballots and chads.
Except the million or more Witches, Wiccans, and Pagans that reside within this country didn't cast this one.
Take a bubbling cauldron of mainstream religious arrogance, toss in a pinch of two-thousand-year-old stereotyping, add a dash of governmental indifference, and top it all off with a measured dose of bland media platitudes and what have we brewed up?
If two young people dress in black, they are teased and taunted at their school and presumed to be Goths, interested in Witchcraft. (They weren't.)
And if these same two young people then one day decide to go to that school with some guns and kill several of their Christian classmates (and themselves), the media just can't get enough of it.
Every written and spoken word takes on new meaning. Every aspect of their home life and school interactions are scrutinized. Every pundit on every talk show and every editorial writer from the New York Times to the Rocky Mountain News has a theory, a commentary or a soaring inspirational piece about the tragedy. And in the end, a new Christian martyr, Cassie Bernall, is the subject of a book and the name Columbine is forever branded into American history.
And we learn that guns don't kill people; people kill people.
If a young girl dresses in black, she is teased and taunted at her school and presumed to be a Goth and interested in Witchcraft. (She was.) And if she resolves not to go to school one day with a gun, but decides instead that she will simply end her pain by taking her own life, well... that doesn't make her book material; it just makes her another teen suicide.
What may make this case different from the first is that twelve-year-old Tempest Smith's tormenters ARE the Christians. And their weapons of choice were not guns, but "Christian hymns".
Will the notebooks and computers of Tempest's classmates be seized and searched now? Will their CDs be examined for subversive anti-Pagan lyrics? Will their parents be questioned about their family's prayer life by the local police station? Will they be sued for not exerting proper parental control over their vocalizing offspring?
"The last thing we want to do is make our students feel guilty," said Lincoln Park Middle School Principal Robert Redden. "But, maybe there is a lesson to be learned here: that we should strive to treat each other with more kindness."
No, it doesn't look like Tempest is going to be elevated to Cassie Bernall status anytime soon. "But, maybe" she will make an interesting lesson plan.
"Gunmen targeted a Christian girl because of her beliefs." BIG story there! And why not? "Christians targeted a Pagan girl because of her beliefs". No big story there. And why not?
Therein we learn that Christian hymns don't kill people; children of another religion who can no longer endure being mocked with Christian hymns day after day kill themselves.
And Pagan shop owners like Jamie Cain of Walker, FL aren't driven out of towns by Christians marching into her place of business, shouting bible passages such as, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". Christians don't actually perpetuate hate crimes against Pagans; they just don't want 'that kind' in their town of pretty white churches.
And we learn that one person's death threat is just another person's scripture passage. No big story there either. No CNN Crossfire. No Larry Ling Live. No 'Breaking News Story' on MSNBC or Fox.
America must be under a spell.
What other reason could there be for the lack of incensed Democratic congressmen and women showing up on every television talk program decrying the rising tide of intolerance directed toward their Pagan-American constituents?
Why else would the great liberal editorial voices of the New York Times and The Washington Post not be lifted up in outrage?
What else would prevent President George W. Bush from calling for an official investigation or, at least, calling Tempest's grieving mother to offer some sort of comfort?
And what else can possibly account for the eerie silence of the American people, a people who swear to uphold the rights of liberty, freedom, and justice for all, when confronted by the hidden hatred that haunts Pagans...and hunts gays...and eliminates the names of black voters from the rolls.
America must really be under a spell.
And it is a spell that only real Americans can break.
In Your Service,
Wren Walker: The Witches Voice
********************************************************************************
************
Another heartbreaking article....
Teasing and taunting led girl to end her life Pressures that prompted mass shootings also spur quiet suicides
By George Hunter / The Detroit News
LINCOLN PARK -- Twelve-year-old Tempest Smith sat alone in her bedroom one chilly morning late last month and gazed into the mirror. Shortly before her classes were to start at Lincoln Park Middle School, she kissed her reflection goodbye.
The lipstick smudges still adorn Tempest's mirror, sad reminders of the day the tall, troubled girl slipped a leopard-print scarf around her neck and hanged herself from her bunk bed.
Tempest's journal, discovered under her bed after her Feb. 20 suicide, offers a glimpse into a problem family and friends didn't fully understand: the incessant teasing she faced every day about her shy demeanour, choice of clothing and religious beliefs that made each day of school -- then eventually life itself -- unbearable.
“Everyone is against me. Still, death will come sooner or later for me. Will I ever have friends again? “
The haunting, hopeless feelings Tempest privately expressed in her daily journal are shared by an increasing number of children. Although older teens commit the bulk of suicides, at least 300 children ages 10-14 kill themselves annually nationwide. The number of suicides in that age group has tripled since 1995 in Michigan.
Taunts alone usually won't cause a child to commit suicide, experts say. But combined with other problems, constant ridicule by peers can be enough to push a kid over the edge. Teasing and bullying is a constant thread running through school violence.
On Monday, a ninth-grader at Santana High School near San Diego shot and killed two students and wounded 13 others; classmates said the 15-year-old was often picked on. And at Columbine High School in 1999, two students who'd been teased for years gunned down 12 classmates and a teacher before killing themselves.
But for every violent episode that makes headlines, there are more than 2,000 U.S. children each year who, like Tempest Smith, quietly decide they can't take it any more.
'Jesus luvs u'
Tempest often spent hours in her bedroom writing poems and other reflections in the small notebook she kept beneath her bed. The notebook was a birthday gift from her mother. It had a picture of pop star Ricky Martin on the cover.
Tempest, a tall, slim blond who got her name because she was born during a violent storm, wrote about typical youthful concerns: crushes on boys; her dog, a shar-pei named Buddy; trips to her grandmother's house. She wrote about family, calling her mother, "the best mom ever."
She also wrote about the pain she increasingly endured during school.
“He said some things to me. It all made my skin boil. Afterward, my head ached.”

John T. Greilick / The Detroit News


Although Tempest had a few friends, many of her classmates had teased her constantly since elementary school. They teased her because she wore dark "Gothic" clothing to school. They teased her because she read books about Wicca, a pagan religion often associated with witchcraft. Her classmates often taunted her with Christian hymns.
Now people aren't chanting Jesus luvs u. They're singing it.
"Tempest was her own person, and the kids made fun of her a lot," said classmate Shayna Obiyan, 12.
Tempest didn't smile much at school, said 14-year-old Jason Pate. "She seemed sad all the time," he said.
Life at home was different, said Tempest's mother, Denessa Smith. "She was very talented," Smith said of her oldest child. "She liked to play the flute and write poetry."
Smith, who raised Tempest alone, wasn't concerned when her daughter became interested in witchcraft. "She asked me if I'd buy her some books about Wicca, and I said I wanted to read them first," Smith said. "The books all talked about love and nature. I didn't see anything wrong with that."
Tempest would get moody sometimes -- "but what 12-year-old girl doesn't?" wondered Smith, an administrative assistant at McDonald's Corp. in Taylor. "I knew she was being teased at school, but I didn't know it bothered her that much. She never told me."
'Her lips were blue'
Feb. 20 was a half-day at Lincoln Park Middle School. Tempest wasn't due in class until noon. She woke up around 10 a.m., showered, then donned her usual outfit: black pants and a black shirt. Then she ate a bowl of Frosted Flakes and watched television.
Because of the late school day, Annette Crossman, a family friend, offered to drive Tempest to class while her mother was at work. "She seemed perfectly normal," Crossman said.
After breakfast, Tempest went to her bedroom. "At around 11:30, I hollered that it was time to go," Crossman said. "She didn't answer."
Crossman noticed that Buddy, the family dog, was acting strangely. "He was walking around in circles and whining," she said. "That's when I knew something was wrong."
When Crossman rushed to Tempest's bedroom, she found the girl hanging.
"At first, I didn't believe what I was seeing," Crossman said. "Then it hit me, and I got a knife and cut her down. Her lips were blue; I was freaking out."
She called for an ambulance, which arrived within minutes. Tempest was rushed to Henry Ford Hospital in Wyandotte.
Crossman called Denessa Smith at work, and Tempest's frantic mother raced to the hospital. "When I got there," Smith said, "the doctors told me Tempest was probably brain-dead, but that they couldn't make an official prognosis."
A helicopter transported Tempest to the University of Michigan Hospital in Ann Arbor. At 5:30 p.m., doctors told Smith her daughter was suffering irreparable brain damage, due to asphyxiation.
At 10:55 a.m. on Feb. 21, after more than 50 organs were removed from her body for donations, Tempest Smith was taken off the hospital's life support system.



(I would post the source this is from, but its another Wiccan forum, so I will not post it here.) I also hope I put this in the right spot, if its not, please move.

[brymble]

i remember hearing about this when it happened. i did not know about the tempest smith foundation.

thank you for helping to keep this young girl's memory alive.

[LadyCelt]

I try to donate whenever I'm at a metaphysical shop around where I live. I think she or her mom went to the principle and they said kids will be kids etc. Its kinda sadder with that knowledge.

[arianrhods_daughter]

That poor girl if I even had a spare 5c it would be going to her :(

[Juniper138]

What is remembered, lives.

I remember Tempest Smith.
I remember that it's never right to make fun of someone's beliefs.
I remember that sticks and stones can break my bones, but names are
words of power that can wound the soul.
I remember that many mocked - and one died.

I remember Tempest Smith.
I remember that it takes all types to make a world.
I remember that nature likes biodiversity. This is true of beliefs and ideas as well.
I remember that I make a better witness to my own beliefs by simply living them, not belittling others.

I remember Tempest Smith.
And I remember that another person’s belief (or non-belief) is just as sincerely held as my own.
I remember to have the courage to say, "Hey, that's not right," when I see someone being ridiculed.
And the next time I am tempted to go along with the crowd and tease someone who is "different," I will remember Tempest Smith, and I will remember my pledge.

Because what is remembered, lives.

On February 20, 2001, a young girl named Tempest Smith killed herself in Lincoln Park, Michigan, USA. Her suicide was directly caused by the taunting of other students who mocked her because she was "different" and because she was Wiccan. This is a dramatic and extreme example of hundreds of everyday cases of prejudice based on religion. Even those who would never make a racial or gender-based slur may still discriminate based on religion, because many faiths teach that their religion is the only true religion.

We know that change is made one person at a time. So in memory of Tempest Smith and millions of victims of religious discrimination worldwide, we at the Pagan Pride Project ask you to pledge these three things:

* I pledge my word and my honor to accept that another's belief, or non-belief, is just as sincerely held as my own.
* I pledge that when I see prejudice based on religion, be it taunting on a playground or whispered in a board meeting, I will stand and say, "No. This is wrong."
* I pledge that to the best of my ability, I will respect practitioners of other spiritual paths and treat them with kindness and courtesy.

Thank you for your generosity of spirit in acknowledging a problem and pledging yourself to its resolution.

©2001 Cecylyna Dewr
Permission is expressly granted to reproduce this document wherever you think it will help. Please include this notice.

For more information contact
Pagan Pride Project – www.paganpride.org - (317) 916-9115.
PO Box 441422 Indianapolis, IN 46244

[brymble]

i think that it is important to remember that, very likely, if Tempest's religion hadn't been "different", these bullies probably would have found something else to torment her about.

just as the crime of rape is not about sex, i believe sincerely that this sort of psychological torment is not about religion, or gothic subculture, or gender, or race, or class, or any other bigotry. it is in fact about power, the twisted understanding of power-over, where one person's power is sacrificed for someone else's increased power.

it is not a question of merely "kids will be kids". casually ribbing or picking on a friend or sibling is quite another thing from targeting one person's self-esteem and well-being to be sacrificed for others'. it is not harmless. it is not "ok".

we should pledge more than just tolerance of religion. we must pledge to respect the self-esteem, power, dignity, and immanent divinity of other human beings, no matter how weaker, disadvantaged, different, or downtrodden they may be. and that includes people whose behavior we don't like, who might not know how to be so respectful themselves. this problem is far bigger than religon, and our response to it should be as well. http://www.cnvc.org

[OpenHands]

I never really understood why this girl was turned into some sort of martyr-like figure for pagans and witches. As Brymble said, the underlying issue in her case and many others is bullying, not pagan religions or witchcraft.

[Meadhbh]

The fledgling christains were fed to the lions for political reasons for the most part not their religious ideology as well. When there are religious groups that are on the fringe of society its easy to believe that every wrong done to one of their members is due to what they believe. Either way its horrible thing when someone kills theirself regardless of the reasons behind it.

[brymble]

every atrocity ever committed in the name of religion, from the inquisition to this girl's torment was actually committed for reasons having to do with politics and power, and having nothing to do with religion at all. the politics was hiding behind religion.

if we get ourselves all puffed up with "burning-times" persecution complexes, we are guilty of the same crime, just coming from a different direction. whether we take on the role of victim or tormentor, the reasons behind the act were still reasons of power. failing to acknowledge that is the first step in allowing it to continue.

[David19]

I feel sorry for the girl and her family and i think i've seen other pagans and wiccans talk about her (on other sites) but they seem to portray her as a matyr for wicca and/or paganism, like Openhands said, bullying is the issue, bullying is the evil, not a religion, the other kids didn't bully her because they were christian and she was wiccan, it was because they were human (and in high school), a difference is seen and the person is attacked (just like the Romans did to christians, the Germans to the Jews, people now to muslims, etc) for many reasons - religious, political, fat, skinny, hair colour, clothes, being gay, anything. So i don't think people should try and turn her tragic death into a cause to blame more evil on christianity (after all pagans were just as cruel, if not more, to christians &, especially, Jews).

Anyway, if i could i'd donate (actually if i could do anything, i'd bring her back) i would and again i really feel for her family and hope they can find some kind of peace, also hope Tempest, is ok whereever she is.

[Juniper138]

Here is where I stand on the issue. Yes, the kids probably would have picked on Tempest for whatever reason they could find. But they chose her religion...why? Probably because they learned from thier parents that non-christains are bad people. White kids pick on black kids cause thier parents are bigots, and thats what they learn. And thats what they teach thier kids, and so on.
The teaching staff and the students parents had been informed time and time again about the teasing by Tempest's Mother...and nothing was done. Which means that, by the teachers doing nothing, the bullies were being taught that it's okay to bully someone for thier religion. These kids were being taught thats its okay not olny to bully, but that it is acceptable to torment and judge a person based on such things as religion, style of dress and such things. THIS IS UNNACEPTABLE! Just as it is intolerable for a teacher to stand aside and allow one child to tease another beacause of thier race, is is intolerable to allow a child to tease another child based on religion. That the staff and the bullies parents allowed teasing at all, wether it is for being Wiccan or not, is not acceptable.
That a child chose to die rather than face one more day of such torment shows us just how the mentality of "kids will be kids" is NEVER acceptable.
I dont care if Tempest was Wiccan, Muslim, or Christain. Her teachers, principals and school councilliors failed her, and set an example by not doing anything to the other kids. Set a very bad example.
We need to take every opportunity to teach tolerance. To fight ignorance and hate. We need to take every opportunity to show teaching staff, parents and councillors that standing aside and doing nothing when a child is bullied is not acceptable behaviour.
Not only do I feel deeply for Tempest and her family, but I also feel for the kids who teased her. After her death, many kids who were her bullies approached her mother in tears, begging forgivness. Cause they did not realise what thier teasing was doing to Tempest. Now those kids suffer from unimaginable guilt. If just one parent or teacher had talked to these kids about the consenquenses of thier actions, it may have stopped.
Let Tempest be an example to show other young people what happens when you are a bully. So that the bullied child doesnt have to live in pain...and the bullies do not have to live with the guilt.
Saying that you will not honor the death of a fellow Pagan cause they would have teased her anyways is a cop-out. And heartless as far as I am concered. What if this had been your child?

[brymble]

no one said anything about not honoring this girl's death! did you read my first post???

[Aidron]

I stopped reading shortly after Christian hymns were professed to be weapons.

At the end of the day, if you choose to commit suicide, that's just what happened... you chose to commit suicide. Sure, things are rough in life, sometimes much more tragic for others, but the choice was ultimately yours. Someone who is shot at point blank didn't choose that and while one could argue that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and that through poor choices they brought it upon themselves, so too can the same thing be said of one such as this girl. If you dress and practice a faith outside the accepted norms for society, you're simply going to have to accept that your path will likely be more rocky than others.

Public school is a nasty place for most, and yes, kids should be taught more kindness (the fault usually lies with the parents, so those of you whom are parents... pay better attention to what your kids do, regardless of any other factors that may be involved), but commiting suicide does not a martyr make and I can't feel sorry for someone who enacted their own personal choice. If you feel helpless, that doens't necessarily mean you are and I personally don't believe anyone is helpless, simply unwilling to do the hard work to make things better. Yes you feel it, but that doesn't make it a reality. People claim to feel things all the time, particularly within the Pagan community such as psychic messages, and they turn out to be wrong.

[brymble]

well, i think that the school had a lot of responsibility that they weren't living up to, as well. the school provided a permissive environment for the bullying. considering the psycology of groups, even kids who were taught not to bully will give in to the lure of power that the group represents, and turn on the weaker target, provided the environment is permissive of such behavior. even if the problem were only perpetuated by a few little monsters whose parents failed to teach them decent behavior, it is still the school's responsibility to provide a safe environment for all the students.

high school is no fun trip for anyone, but the social environment does vary widely from school to school. that's a product of the school administration and faculty, which in turn, is a product of the local culture. thus, bullying is really everyone's problem.

[Aidron]

well, i think that the school had a lot of responsibility that they weren't living up to, as well. the school provided a permissive environment for the bullying. considering the psycology of groups, even kids who were taught not to bully will give in to the lure of power that the group represents, and turn on the weaker target, provided the environment is permissive of such behavior. even if the problem were only perpetuated by a few little monsters whose parents failed to teach them decent behavior, it is still the school's responsibility to provide a safe environment for all the students.

high school is no fun trip for anyone, but the social environment does vary widely from school to school. that's a product of the school administration and faculty, which in turn, is a product of the local culture. thus, bullying is really everyone's problem.

Just one to touch upon one thing really, but bullying being a problem is relatively a new concept I strongly suspect if one keeps in mind the long history of mankind. Survival of the fittest, bullying is one way in which to weed out the weak, to ensure the strong survive and that the species thrives. In our world today, we likely spend less than 5% of our energy and focus upon survival and thus we are still learning how to cope with this new shift in focus.

[brymble]

i'm sorry, but that is incorrect. so-called "social darwinism" is not a "survival" trait of the human animal, but a new concept based on a very common misconception of evolution. "survival of the fittest" refers to which organisms within a community of a given species contributes the most offspring to the gene pool, not which are the biggest, strongest, meanest or most ruthless. as a species, humans owe their success to to a trait biologists refer to as altruism. we are social animals, which means we need each other's support as members of a group to survive as individuals and as a species. there is competition for status within group, but not on such an extreme level that we take each other out through behaviors such as bullying. when competition between group members becomes too intense, the community is not able to hold itself together, and suffers as a whole. since we are social animals, that behavior would not be conducive to the species thriving.

early art objects, such as a famous carved ivory portrait of a woman's head displaying facial deformities, found in stone-age burial sites, suggest that community members who might have been ostracized or killed ("bullied") in other species, such as those with deformaties or other "weaknesses" were in fact cherished by their communities, and may at times actually have been given special social status. (unfortunately this sculpture is listed in the art history book i sold and not the one i kept so i can't quote dates or location for the specific sculpture i have in mind.)

however, you are correct that, the majority of modern humans in industrialized countries spend far less of their energies on survival, and that change has altered our social structure. i can't help but wonder, actually, if the easing of the struggle to survive has actually made us more competitive within our communities, rather than more cooperative, as the mutal dependency between individual and community for survival is (superficially, at any rate) drastically lessened.

[Aidron]

i'm sorry, but that is incorrect. so-called "social darwinism" is not a "survival" trait of the human animal, but a new concept based on a very common misconception of evolution. "survival of the fittest" refers to which organisms within a community of a given species contributes the most offspring to the gene pool, not which are the biggest, strongest, meanest or most ruthless. as a species, humans owe their success to to a trait biologists refer to as altruism. we are social animals, which means we need each other's support as members of a group to survive as individuals and as a species. there is competition for status within group, but not on such an extreme level that we take each other out through behaviors such as bullying. when competition between group members becomes too intense, the community is not able to hold itself together, and suffers as a whole. since we are social animals, that behavior would not be conducive to the species thriving.

Actually, we're both correct, I simply didn't touch upon the point you made. Survival of the fittest does in fact refer to just that; the strongest. All creatures fight for survival, but human beings have evolved to a point where our enegy is spent so very little on survival. Social creatures do fight for mates, for their offspring, and yes, among each others for all of this. Bullying could be seen as no differently in some instances. Violence is not so surprising when you realize that we live in a hostile world much of the time and all around us there is hostility (though this is not all there is or all that the world is).

The best way I can think of at the moment to relate is that think of each of us as individuals, naturally, then as our families and friends as our clans, and the world at large as our species of course. Rival groups among the same species can be very hostile toward one another and go so far as to bully, abuse and even murder rival groups.

early art objects, such as a famous carved ivory portrait of a woman's head displaying facial deformities, found in stone-age burial sites, suggest that community members who might have been ostracized or killed ("bullied") in other species, such as those with deformaties or other "weaknesses" were in fact cherished by their communities, and may at times actually have been given special social status. (unfortunately this sculpture is listed in the art history book i sold and not the one i kept so i can't quote dates or location for the specific sculpture i have in mind.)

A few art objects does not a fact make, I'm afraid. A few examples do not prove the average rule of thumb.

[brymble]

i have studdied college-level biology, as well as art history. "fittest" in evolutionary terms refers to ability to contribute the most offspring to the gene pool. frequently that does mean size and strength, but that is by far not the only determining factor in an organism's ability to survive to reproduce.

furthermore, the phrase "survival of the fittest" was not even coined by darwin himself, but by an economist, the first to make the misguided social parallels to darwin's theory of natural selection. many biologists do not like the use of the phrase "survival of the fittest" because it fails to convey the complex nature of natural selection, over-simplifying it to be misinterpreted as "the strongest survive", as you have done. many see the phrase as generally useless in explaining the process of natural selection, as it is self-defining ("survivors survive")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest

[LadyCelt]

I've read that people chanted christian hymns at her etc. I saw a good editorial on a christian site about how Jesus would of been extranice to her instead of that.

[Theres]

Tempest's death was tragic, there's no doubt about that. but no more tragic than the teen who commits suicide because of harrassment due to being gay, or not having the latest fashions, or having Tourettes Syndrome, or not speaking proper English.
to turn this into some kind of us vs them 'burning times' scenario is counterproductive and more than just a little sick, imo.

puberty is difficult for everyone, and some teens can't handle the pressures and changes associated with this time, too often resulting in suicide. but there is nothing special here i'm thinking, only more topical to this particular forum.

if this were some kind of fund or foundation to help council troubled teens in general i'd probably be a bit more sympathetic.

[Juniper138]

It is a fund to help troubled teens, and to stop all kinds of bullying in schools. But the main focus is to teach tolerance...not just religious, but tolerance for everyone in schools. Have a look at the foundation's website before you pass judgment.
I was not, and I doubt the organizers of Tempest's foundation are trying to trun it into some us vs them senario. Its simply trying to honor a dead child by educating students, parents and teachers about bullying and about tolerance.
Frankly, I am insulted and disgusted by some of the responses here. I have seen many posts about Tempest (and other foundations for tolerance and fighting bullies) on other forums, in other groups ect...and have never come across such callousness and indifference. For shame. How can a person just shrug and say "who cares". It sickens me. Why not try to make this world a better place, and make schools a friendlier and more tolerant place for everyone? How can a person just say..."well it sucks to be a teen, if some people die because of it, then so what?"
UGH...just UGH.
After I finish vomitting, I am going to seriously consider whether or not I am going to continue my membership with this forum. I'm ashamed to be in the same cyber-space with such unfeeling, heartless, indifferent jerks.

[Theres]

:whatmewor

[Aleannah]

It is a fund to help troubled teens, and to stop all kinds of bullying in schools. But the main focus is to teach tolerance...not just religious, but tolerance for everyone in schools. Have a look at the foundation's website before you pass judgment.
I was not, and I doubt the organizers of Tempest's foundation are trying to trun it into some us vs them senario. Its simply trying to honor a dead child by educating students, parents and teachers about bullying and about tolerance.
Frankly, I am insulted and disgusted by some of the responses here. I have seen many posts about Tempest (and other foundations for tolerance and fighting bullies) on other forums, in other groups ect...and have never come across such callousness and indifference. For shame. How can a person just shrug and say "who cares". It sickens me. Why not try to make this world a better place, and make schools a friendlier and more tolerant place for everyone? How can a person just say..."well it sucks to be a teen, if some people die because of it, then so what?"
UGH...just UGH.
After I finish vomitting, I am going to seriously consider whether or not I am going to continue my membership with this forum. I'm ashamed to be in the same cyber-space with such unfeeling, heartless, indifferent jerks.

I have read this thread in it's entirety, and just because some people have a different opinion or view than you do, then we are ALL "unfeeling, heartless, indifferent jerks"? This thread is to let people know about a fund to help educate students inparticular, but people in general about the effects of bullying. And for you to generalize and call this entire community those names, aren't you being a little intolerant as well? The only way to come together is to be apart in the first place.

[brymble]

juniper138, NO ONE has said "who cares"? not a single post on this thread has expressed anything other than sadness at the loss of this girl's life. if we didn't care, we would not be going into such an in-depth discussion of everything from social to biological factors behind bullying. the rest of us are simply able to do it without getting whipped up into a melodramatic self-righteous froth.

please cease with the juvenile name-calling. and try actually reading the posts, please.

[Alora]

I had never heard this story or of this organization. Thank you for posting and raising awarness.

[Meadhbh]

I never said I don't care about Tempest's death. I said that there is no point in setting every dead pagan child as a symbol of an opressed group of people. Again it is sad when anyone kills themselve's no matter what they believe. But, there is no reason to idealize her as someone who died because she was a pagan. I know when I was a teenager i wasn't the most emotionally stable of people, most aren't. You can't be sure thats the reason she did what she did, it might have pushed her over the edge but we can never know can we?

[Aidron]

i have studdied college-level biology, as well as art history. "fittest" in evolutionary terms refers to ability to contribute the most offspring to the gene pool. frequently that does mean size and strength, but that is by far not the only determining factor in an organism's ability to survive to reproduce.

"Fittest" actually refers to many things. Above all it is in reference to the overall benefit an individual can offer the species as a whole, this means passing what is perceived to be excellent genes on to the next generation. That includes a lot more than simply offering the most offspring. Anything can do that with enough practice and time, that doesn't mean they'll benefit the species the most and many creatures outright kill offspring because they perceived to be inferior; human beings are no exception.

furthermore, the phrase "survival of the fittest" was not even coined by darwin himself

I never said it was.

but by an economist, the first to make the misguided social parallels to darwin's theory of natural selection. many biologists do not like the use of the phrase "survival of the fittest" because it fails to convey the complex nature of natural selection, over-simplifying it to be misinterpreted as "the strongest survive", as you have done. many see the phrase as generally useless in explaining the process of natural selection, as it is self-defining ("survivors survive")

Actually, it conveys things as well as anything else, it is a simple statement in simplistic terms used to define a complex scenario. That's proverbs for you and that's life. I stand by what I said.

[Aidron]

It is a fund to help troubled teens, and to stop all kinds of bullying in schools. But the main focus is to teach tolerance...not just religious, but tolerance for everyone in schools. Have a look at the foundation's website before you pass judgment.
I was not, and I doubt the organizers of Tempest's foundation are trying to trun it into some us vs them senario. Its simply trying to honor a dead child by educating students, parents and teachers about bullying and about tolerance.
Frankly, I am insulted and disgusted by some of the responses here. I have seen many posts about Tempest (and other foundations for tolerance and fighting bullies) on other forums, in other groups ect...and have never come across such callousness and indifference. For shame. How can a person just shrug and say "who cares". It sickens me. Why not try to make this world a better place, and make schools a friendlier and more tolerant place for everyone? How can a person just say..."well it sucks to be a teen, if some people die because of it, then so what?"
UGH...just UGH.
After I finish vomitting, I am going to seriously consider whether or not I am going to continue my membership with this forum. I'm ashamed to be in the same cyber-space with such unfeeling, heartless, indifferent jerks.

And I am ashamed to be recognized as part of the same species as someone who is so full of bullshit presumptions and hypocrisy. You want tolerance and kindness? Start by not decreeing that those who can see another point of view than you are inferior on the morality ladder and insulting them. You make me sick.

[Lunacie]

I'm ashamed to be in the same cyber-space with such unfeeling, heartless, indifferent jerks.

And I am ashamed to be recognized as part of the same species as someone who is so full of bullshit presumptions and hypocrisy.

I could report both these posts as breaking the One Rule of Respect, but that would probably get the entire thread closed. Come on, guys, stick to the topic instead of insulting the other poster.

[Sage Rainsong]

It is a fund to help troubled teens, and to stop all kinds of bullying in schools. But the main focus is to teach tolerance...not just religious, but tolerance for everyone in schools. Have a look at the foundation's website before you pass judgment.
I was not, and I doubt the organizers of Tempest's foundation are trying to trun it into some us vs them senario. Its simply trying to honor a dead child by educating students, parents and teachers about bullying and about tolerance.
Frankly, I am insulted and disgusted by some of the responses here. I have seen many posts about Tempest (and other foundations for tolerance and fighting bullies) on other forums, in other groups ect...and have never come across such callousness and indifference. For shame. How can a person just shrug and say "who cares". It sickens me. Why not try to make this world a better place, and make schools a friendlier and more tolerant place for everyone? How can a person just say..."well it sucks to be a teen, if some people die because of it, then so what?"
UGH...just UGH.
After I finish vomitting, I am going to seriously consider whether or not I am going to continue my membership with this forum. I'm ashamed to be in the same cyber-space with such unfeeling, heartless, indifferent jerks.


I really don't understand why you are so worked up over this. No one is saying that bullying is not a problem. Some people just have a different view, when it comes to the charity itself. I dislike how some pagans may use her as some kind of pagan martyr. She commited suicide. Many teens commit suicide due to bullying and other factors. Why is Tempest being singled out? What makes her so special? Probably because the pagan movement can use her. In my opinion it would be disrespectful to her memory if a bunch of irritating pagans went around speaking of how the so called "burning times" are not over yet, just so they can continue to martyr themselves.The whole article has a self rightous slant and I find it repulsive. To think that no pagan would use it to feed their own complexes is just plain naive.

[Aidron]

I could report both these posts as breaking the One Rule of Respect, but that would probably get the entire thread closed. Come on, guys, stick to the topic instead of insulting the other poster.

The actions that were taken by the poster I was referring to were part of the topic; their reaction based upon the view points of others on the topic. Besides, don't discuss or hang a report over people's head, either do it or let it go.

[Lunacie]

The actions that were taken by the poster I was referring to were part of the topic; their reaction based upon the view points of others on the topic. Besides, don't discuss or hang a report over people's head, either do it or let it go.

I've been enjoying reading this thread. Some points have been made here that I didn't see or think about when this was first in the news. I don't want to see the thread get closed, that's why I was asking for the discussion to stay on topic. Sorry if you see that as holding an ax over your head, that's not what I intended.

[brymble]

i think what juniper has rather unsuccessfully been trying to communicate is that the particular charity in question was founded by the girl's mother to advocate and end to intolerance in general, not specifically religious intolerance, although she has spoken apparently at pagan events and the links on the foundation's webpage focus heavily on wiccan and neopagan religion and religious freedom. i think that it must be taken into consideration that the foundation was started by the girl's mother, as a memorial for her daughter and as a way to cope with grief, so the heavily wiccan overtones of the page are understandable if one considers that the foundation is a personal project for her, as well as an attempt to serve a higher cause. i do not think that this particular organization crosses the line into the "burning times" mentality, but it does seem to teeter right on that line.

there are however, unrelated individuals, websites, and groups that have shamelessly exploited tempest's death to stroke their own ego-driven persecution complexes, thus adding fuel to the fire (pardon the pun) of ignorance, self-righteousness and ego that drives intolerance. keep in mind this girl's death has been used to justify christian-bashing, which in turn is spreading hatred and intolerance itself, in direct conflict to the foundation's goals. i think the witchvox article, while making a weak, half-hearted attempt to avoid direct christian-bashing, does cross the line into exploitation, giving a rather negative impression of the foundation it is reporting on, and defeating its own purposes, as well as the foundations. i can provide links to posts from other forums and articles that i found googling "tempest smith" and "christianity", for purposes of discussion, if others are interested in discussing this further: rather than being an inspiration to end bullying and intolerance, is this girl's death also being used to fan the flames? i say it is, and it's a disgrace to her memory.

as stated before, however, i think that intolerance is only one factor in the bigger picture behind tempest's suicide and bullying in general. in fact, i think it's likely that intolerance is actually a symptom, not the disease itself. that is not to say that intolerance is not a dispicable thing, but that in order to end intolerance, we have to explore its roots, and not focus exclusively on the intolerance itself, its practioners, or its targets.

aidron is pointing to biological factors, and while i disagree with him on his interpretation of the role of competition in natural selection and the extent of its significance to this case, his voice has as much right to be heard, and he is attempting to make some valid points. someone else pointed out the biological and psychological factors of adolescence, the pain, isolation, and frustration that come along with the preteen and teen years, and this is something to remember (taking into consideration that tempest was in middle school, not high school, and she was 12 - she never made it to the angsty teen stage, although the preteen years have their own awkwardness) be they due to social pressures, poor administraction of schools, or hormonal changes of the onset of puberty.

i myself feel that power, politics and culture play an important role. the power issue may be related to biology, but i myself feel that culture plays a more important role, and if nothing else is certainly a factor that is within our power to change.

i do hope we can keep this thread on topic and continue this interesting and important discussion without further outbreaks of the very intolerance that offends so many of us.