Is SIDS real?

[pawnman]

Is SIDS a real thing, or is that just a label doctors apply to infant deaths when they don't have any better explanation? I've seen all kinds of things that say they can increase or decrease the incidence of SIDS, but no good reasons WHY they do. Is it an actual medical problem? Or is it "This baby died, and we don't have a good explanation, let's call it SIDS"?

[Gwenhwyfar]

Good question. WHen my daughter was a baby I was so paranoid about sids Id watch her breathing alllllll night long ...its a scary thing is all I know.

[Faeawyn]

Its when there is no explainable cause of death. This is from www.sids.org

SIDS is the sudden death of an infant under one year of age which remains unexplained after a thorough case investigation, including performance of a complete autopsy, examination of the death scene, and review of the clinical history. (Willinger et al, 1991).

In a typical situation parents check on their supposedly sleeping infant to find him or her dead. This is the worse tragedy parents can face, a tragedy which leaves them with a sadness and a feeling of vulnerability that lasts throughout their lives. Since medicine can not tell them why their baby died, they blame themselves and often other innocent people. Their lives and those around them are changed forever.

[pawnman]

Its when there is no explainable cause of death. This is from www.sids.org

So it is just a catch-all term for "We don't know what happened, but that sounds like we're idiots, so let's call it SIDS instead".

[Athena-Nadine]

So it is just a catch-all term for "We don't know what happened, but that sounds like we're idiots, so let's call it SIDS instead".

Yep, though the name Sudden Infant Death Syndrome itself says that there is no explainable cause. That's what makes it so terrifying.

I do find it interesting that while we don't know what really causes it (I read somewhere that there is believed to be a combination of factors involved), we are learning new ways every day to help prevent it.

[pawnman]

Yep, though the name Sudden Infant Death Syndrome itself says that there is no explainable cause. That's what makes it so terrifying.

I do find it interesting that while we don't know what really causes it (I read somewhere that there is believed to be a combination of factors involved), we are learning new ways every day to help prevent it.

I read somewhere that putting babies to sleep with pacifiers reduces the incidence, but little Aurora won't take them. She just stopped at three months, and now she refuses to suck on them unless you hold it in her mouth...when you let go, she spits it out (kind of ironic, since she sucks on everything else!)

[Winter_wolf]

SIDs is a very scary thing for parents. I was very paranoid with my daughter. I did everything that was recommended at the time to reduce the potential for a SID to occur. Here are a few things they were saying not to do 9 years ago... no belly sleeping and no thick/fuzzy blankets and firm crib mattresses. Those suggestions at the time make me believe they are thinking a lot of SIDs deaths occur due to suffication. I would put my daughter in warm sleepers and the only blanket I would use was a crocheted one.

[misschief]

i don't know... i agree that it's a 'catch all'. my cousins baby died of it, seems that he just stopped breathing out of nowhere. i don't see it as a medical problem... i kind of see it as a half-assed explaination for 'well, looks like something was wrong, or something quit working'.

[rainyangl]

we plan on putting our baby on a heart monitor when (s)he is born. On my hubby's side of the family sleep apnea is common in babies. All 3 of my SIL's kids had it and my MIL lost 2 babies to it. I will demand it. Also I heard something about how risk for SIDS goes away at 6 months.

[Seren_]

Recent research suggests there may be a genetic link for some cot deaths. Generally it's thought that cot death is linked to the failure of a baby to start breathing again after it stops (we have a natural "gasp" reflex that should kickstart breathing again), so anything that keeps the airways open, like a pacifier does, is thought to help prevent this from happening:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4708086.stm

[Ceres]

Dr James Mckenna believes that babies are sometimes simply not able to rouse from stage four sleep without outside stimulation. Sometimes while in that deepest stage of sleep, they experience apnea that they cant wake themselves enought to start breathing again.

He studies infant sleep patterns by observing first hand. Parents and babies volunteer to be subjects for this study at his sleep laboratory. Here is a link to the webpage for information about his work.
www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/

[Happy Shrew]

Boy, if the definition of SIDS bothers you guys, there are a bunch of other definitions you definitely won't want to know about...

Death by unknown cause is a phenomenon, and they gotta give that phenomenon a name if they're going to talk about it. Cot death, SIDS, We-Don't-Know-What-Happened, they're all fine candidates.

[Alora]

I read somewhere that putting babies to sleep with pacifiers reduces the incidence, but little Aurora won't take them.

This is such crap. Babies don't want to suck fake plastic nipples! They want to nurse and be close to their mamas. SIDS is known as crib death because it happens while sleeping in a crib. Take your baby to bed with you and nurse him/her if you want to prevent SIDS.

To learn the truth about sids read Our Babies Ourselves.

[Ivyrose]

Take your baby to bed with you and nurse him/her if you want to prevent SIDS.




I would be far too worried about smothering.or just breaking a limb or something just as nasty for a tinytot

[Seren_]

I would be far too worried about smothering.or just breaking a limb or something just as nasty for a tinytot

Me too. I'm happy to have my son in bed with me if it's just us, but not with my husband as well. It's too cramped. And it's not a good option for everyone - especially if you smoke, have sleep apnoea, are on heavy medication or are excessively tired. In Britain, co-sleeping in bed with your child isn't advised at all.

[Ivyrose]

Me too. I'm happy to have my son in bed with me if it's just us, but not with my husband as well. It's too cramped. And it's not a good option for everyone - especially if you smoke, have sleep apnoea, are on heavy medication or are excessively tired. In Britain, co-sleeping in bed with your child isn't advised at all.

I'ts not surprising! I woke up laying on my kitten once and panicked when I thought I had killed her! (she was fine though but wasnt happy when I woke her up!)

[Jenne]

SIDS is real. It's what's known as a "syndrome." Syndromes have a list of symptoms and conditions that are identifiable when presented together:

From dictionary.com:

syn·drome http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsyndrome) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (shttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifdrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/omacr.gifmhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gif)
n.

A group of symptoms that collectively indicate or characterize a disease, psychological disorder, or other abnormal condition.

A complex of symptoms indicating the existence of an undesirable condition or quality.
A distinctive or characteristic pattern of behavior: the syndrome of conspicuous consumption in wealthy suburbs.

By the very definition of syndrome, it means identification of a disease by its characteristics, as discrete as they may be, or as nebulous as the description of the disease may seem.

I wouldn't characterize SIDS as a "non-disease" or even a "catch-all" for unexplainable deaths. Instead, it's a subset of symptoms that lead to death.

Husband being a peds and him having seen SIDS firsthand, yes, it's "real." All too real. But as mentioned before, it is being studied and indentified much better, which means prevention is helping to keep SIDS death rates lower in the US.

[Ceres]

Unfortunately, babies die in cribs of SIDS and accidents as well as while sleeping in adult beds with their parents. Until a study is done to know how many parents practice co-sleeping to compare the risks, we cant really say its safer for babies to sleep in cribs or that its safer to sleep in their parent's bed.
www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t102200.asp

[pawnman]

This is such crap. Babies don't want to suck fake plastic nipples! They want to nurse and be close to their mamas. SIDS is known as crib death because it happens while sleeping in a crib. Take your baby to bed with you and nurse him/her if you want to prevent SIDS.

To learn the truth about sids read Our Babies Ourselves.

She slept in our bed until about three months. Now she sleeps through the night in her crib.

Everything I've read on the subject says the opposite...how dangerous it is to let babies sleep in bed with you.

[misschief]

i never let my kids sleep in my bed unless it was for a special reason... like they were sick, scared, etc. i just didn't want them to develop that dependence, like they couldn't sleep on their own... had nothing to do with them being afraid they'd die.

[Ceres]

Everything I've read on the subject says the opposite...how dangerous it is to let babies sleep in bed with you.

Then I guess you havent read either of the sites I posted since both argue the safety of co-sleeping.

[Winter_wolf]

There was a lady in Detroit about a year or so ago that slept on her newborn and killed it. :(

[pawnman]

Then I guess you havent read either of the sites I posted since both argue the safety of co-sleeping.

Those were the first I've seen. I don't know what the truth is, and it'll probably be a long time before anyone does for sure. It just seemed that most of the conventional or mainstream wisdom was that sleeping in bed with a newbord is a bad idea...but at the same time, there are all manner of devices sold to facilitate sleeping with the baby (we got a mesh fence-railing thingy so that the baby couldn't roll out of the bed.)

[MysticWitch]

SIDS = when baby forgets to breathe.
They say soothers help prevent this. :wave:

[sari0009]

In response to message one, you just queried within the bounds of an either / or fallacy (a.k.a “false dilemma”).


SIDS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_infant_death_syndrome)is an umbrella term -- babies die for real medical reasons -- numerous pieces to the puzzle exist.


I lost a daughter to SIDS in '85, she had just had an exam a week before which determined that she was growing well -- there were no known medical problems when she died, she died in my arms while I was awake, and we were not on a sofa. She was not smothered, sweating, or in too many blankets. I had an excellent diet, didn't smoke, didn't drink, took vitamins, and lived in the best of clean non-smoking conditions (upper middle class environment and house in which several generations thrived).


Early that morning, my daughter seemed to be going to sleep and then ... she was gone. There was no warning, no discernable infection, but I had had a cup of coffee (I breastfed) that week and was tempted to blame that for a while ... searching to make sense of what appeared to be a senseless loss.

They worked on her for 45 minutes at the hospital to no avail and then pronounced her dead.


I actually worked in pathology in following years, and naturally, my job included SIDS cases. People offer all sorts of explanations and I’ll never forget the day a coroner came in and theorized that if more mothers stayed home then all these SIDS deaths would decrease -- he had no idea that I my third child had died of SIDS, when he blurted his theory out (keep in mind that coroners often do not have any requirements to understand medicine or psychology).


Theorizing about SIDS seems to be everyone's playground. I say don't -- lack of medical reasons understood and given does not negate the medical reasons involved, so leave it to the qualified professionals to work out between themselves, and unfortunately … that takes time.

[Haruka2077]

They sell bassinets called co-sleepers that attach to the bed but are separate from it. You can hear your child breathing all night and just reach over to nurse them when they wake up. It's a nice way to co-sleep without worrying about suffocating your little one.

[PoisonIvy]

SIDS is real. In adults they call it sleep apnea. I forget to breathe sometimes when I'm asleep because I wake up gasping for air.
So if it's a real disorder in adults then why not for babies?

[misschief]

then they should just call it infant sleep apnea... wouldn't that make more sense?

[Astara Seague]

It doesnt matter to me what they call it, but I do know its real, I lost my son in 86 to SIDS at 2 weeks, there was no other reason except he stopped breathing!! Since then I have to admit, I have a fear that will not go away, I chose not to have any more children so I would never have to deal with that again, and if my kids have kids, I will not be letting them spend the night, its all to horrifying!!

[misschief]

well.. i'm sorry, not trying to downplay the death of babies. it's just, i know a few people who've lost children to SIDS, but... it's never the same thing. the point i was making was... it seems like if they don't know what happens, they just call it SIDS, which, i am absolutely sure DOES happen. whether or not SIDS is an actual medical condition.. i have no idea, nor have i done any research to find out... all i know is, people do jump the gun and say lots of children die of SIDS, when those children didn't die of the same causes *shrug*.

[~blood raven~]

Well I have one thing to say to that... confusing!! My sister passed form S.I.D.S. and my mother had her in the bed with her... and woke to her dead next to her. You know what?? The medics said she friggin suffocated her. That's crap_wedgie_ This is such crap. Babies don't want to suck fake plastic nipples! They want to nurse and be close to their mamas. SIDS is known as crib death because it happens while sleeping in a crib. Take your baby to bed with you and nurse him/her if you want to prevent SIDS.

To learn the truth about sids read Our Babies Ourselves.

[Ceres]

Having co slept for years, I think the idea of overlaying is a myth or at least extremely rare. You are aware of where the baby is the whole time. I recall waking to catch by the legs a baby whose top end had started to teeter on the edge of the bed. I did, however, always stay on my side, curled around them. Even if I rolled on my back, my arm would remain around the other side of them.

Dr James Mckenna, whose website I posted earlier in the thread says when he observes mothers sleeping with their infants that they continue to parent their infants all night long. They cuddle them, rub their heads or backs, check where the pillows are in proximity to them, cover them up and even latch them on, all without coming out of sleep and even while in stage four (the deepest) stage sleep!

[Kalika]

Or is it "This baby died, and we don't have a good explanation, let's call it SIDS"?

This actually used to be the case moreso in the past than it is now.

Some worthwhile sites to check out:

http://www.sids.org/

http://sids-network.org/

This is essentially still true, but not ALL deaths, such as those due to suffocation, or those related to child abuse and blamed on SIDS as they are unable to pinpoint the exact cause, are still considered to be SIDS cases. This is a large contributor to the decrease in the numbers of deaths related to this. A SIDS death is one that is inexplicable after all possible testing has been done.

So to answer - yes, it is a real condition. Sadly, they still aren't sure of the cause, though there are some instances where an infant is believed to be at higher risk, such as exposure to second hand smoke, etc.

There are a lot of theories about what causes it, but no definite answers as of yet, as far as I know.

This whole topic freaked me out when my son was little... so I did a lot of reading and research to see if there was anything I could do to help prevent it.

Now the "experts" are saying that use of a pacifier helps reduce the risk... so maybe that's something. I believe they think it has something to do with the sucking reflex/habit, and that keeps a part of the child's brain aware enough so that whatever may trigger SIDS is prevented. (If that makes any sense whatsoever)

[Kalika]

Having co slept for years, I think the idea of overlaying is a myth or at least extremely rare. You are aware of where the baby is the whole time. I recall waking to catch by the legs a baby whose top end had started to teeter on the edge of the bed. I did, however, always stay on my side, curled around them. Even if I rolled on my back, my arm would remain around the other side of them.



That was true for me as well. I dont know what it was with my son, but he sure liked to wiggle close to that edge. I always knew, and any time he was close or ready to roll off, I caught him.

I'm wondering if this stems from the concern of parents possibly consuming alcohol before bed - as this slows the system and therefore your response time, and may cause you to be less aware of the baby.

[Kalika]

This is such crap. Babies don't want to suck fake plastic nipples! They want to nurse and be close to their mamas. SIDS is known as crib death because it happens while sleeping in a crib. Take your baby to bed with you and nurse him/her if you want to prevent SIDS.

To learn the truth about sids read Our Babies Ourselves.

As others pointed out - SIDS does not only occur in cribs.

Nor does Co-sleeping guarantee its prevention.

[Lunacie]

Until they are able to say for certain what causes SIDS, I see no reason to believe that co-sleeping causes it OR that co-sleeping prevents it.

[Kalika]

Until they are able to say for certain what causes SIDS, I see no reason to believe that co-sleeping causes it OR that co-sleeping prevents it.

That's what I'm saying. :)

Just as sleeping in a crib doesn't guarantee that it will occur... or that it won't.

I co-slept, and I'm all for it if it works for your family - and it definitely did put my mind at ease, as I was right there feeling him breathing the whole time. But... I also knew that it wasn't a fail-safe. It was more for my peace of mind and comfort. (Selfish much? :lol: )

[Acid09]

My brother died of SIDS at four months of age, nine months later I took his place. But he had health issues, a heart flutter or mermur or something like that I believe. Any kind of health problems in a baby increase the odds of sudden death. The doctors kind of expected him to pass away prematurely. Unfortunate but there is little one can do to totally prevent SIDS. Even healthy babies can experience sudden death.

[Kalika]

well.. i'm sorry, not trying to downplay the death of babies. it's just, i know a few people who've lost children to SIDS, but... it's never the same thing. the point i was making was... it seems like if they don't know what happens, they just call it SIDS, which, i am absolutely sure DOES happen. whether or not SIDS is an actual medical condition.. i have no idea, nor have i done any research to find out... all i know is, people do jump the gun and say lots of children die of SIDS, when those children didn't die of the same causes *shrug*.

That's exactly what SIDS is... an unexplained death. There could be multiple causes at this time - medicine hasn't discovered those causes and given them their own names yet, so they fall under the category of SIDS.

Any medically unexplainable death in an infant (most categorize this as 1 month to 1 year of age) is considered at this time to be SIDS. An infant suddenly dies, for no apparent reason. A reason that cannot be found even after extensive post-mortem testing.

Over time, fewer and fewer cases occur because the cause of death is now able to be explained. For example, suffocation cases used to be considered SIDS - now that technology has advanced enough to identify these instances, they are no longer ruled as SIDS. Likewise, long-term child abuse that results in death, but wasn't necessarily immediately obvious, have also been removed from this list, as it is now more readily identifiable by certain signs and symptoms.

I agree that in the past a lot of people have "jumped the gun" as you said, and categorized things as SIDS that may not have been. I think that this is part of the reason that it has become such a widely researched and focused upon topic - people don't like to fear something that has absolutely no explanation, and do not want to be confronted with something that they can do nothing about. So, we research, and we try to find causes, techniques, and preventions.

[Kalika]

SIDS is real. In adults they call it sleep apnea. I forget to breathe sometimes when I'm asleep because I wake up gasping for air.
So if it's a real disorder in adults then why not for babies?

Sleep apnea is a condition in infants as well - and, if it has been identified, would be ruled as the cause of death rather than SIDS.

If it hasn't been (just as if it hadn't been in adults) it would be considered a medically unexplained death.

[Kalika]

we plan on putting our baby on a heart monitor when (s)he is born. On my hubby's side of the family sleep apnea is common in babies. All 3 of my SIL's kids had it and my MIL lost 2 babies to it. I will demand it. Also I heard something about how risk for SIDS goes away at 6 months.

I believe that infants are believed to be at greatest risk between 2-4 months of age... but that SIDS can occur up to 1 year of age. (Possibly even later) The risk is reduced at 6 months of age - but not gone.

(Not to scare anyone.)

Sorry guys... I've posted a million times in this thread. :p

[misschief]

even though i never let my kids sleep with me, all of them DID sleep right beside me in a bassinette until they were 3-4 months old, or big enough that they could potentially knock the bassinette over. i think i kind of made it sound like i wasn't at all worried about it, but i was... just not paranoid. i just didn't let them sleep WITH me, because i didn't want to possibly end up with a 10 or 12 year old still trying to sleep with mom and dad... after they go to bed is the ONLY time i have any space... :lol:

[Kalika]

even though i never let my kids sleep with me, all of them DID sleep right beside me in a bassinette until they were 3-4 months old, or big enough that they could potentially knock the bassinette over. i think i kind of made it sound like i wasn't at all worried about it, but i was... just not paranoid. i just didn't let them sleep WITH me, because i didn't want to possibly end up with a 10 or 12 year old still trying to sleep with mom and dad... after they go to bed is the ONLY time i have any space... :lol:

That was my fear too... but I did it anyways. :lol:

Lucky for me though, my son is easy going... and transitioned to his crib easily and readily right before he turned one!

I'm wondering if it would be pushing my luck to try that with this baby. :)

[Ceres]

even though i never let my kids sleep with me, all of them DID sleep right beside me in a bassinette until they were 3-4 months old, or big enough that they could potentially knock the bassinette over.

I have pointed out before on threads such as these that according to the infant sleep expert James Mckenna, a basinette right next to your bed is a form of co-sleeping. :hahugh: You are still following your instinct to have your baby close in those early weeks.
BTW, my twelve year old, who co slept with me till she was three thinks its hilarious anyone would worry their twelve year would want to share their bed :yayah:
I think thats a problem when the family bed is forbidden no matter what and then later the parents relent. Kids feel like its a form of control since they were able to force the issue int he past.

[Ceres]

That was true for me as well. I dont know what it was with my son, but he sure liked to wiggle close to that edge. I always knew, and any time he was close or ready to roll off, I caught him.

I'm wondering if this stems from the concern of parents possibly consuming alcohol before bed - as this slows the system and therefore your response time, and may cause you to be less aware of the baby.

I think you are right. If you are drinking or taking drugs that will make you groggy, you wont have that kind of awareness.

[Autumn]

In fact, if you lookat the recomendations for co-sleeping they include that nobody in the bed be using alcohol or any other seditive or nicotine in any form. that the mattress be firm and the room be a reasonable temprature.

I have always gone on the theory that SIDS is related to some disruption in sleep phase for the baby. Pacifyers would decrease the chance of the baby slipping into stage 4 and an apnic episode. if the baby isn't a user of pacifiers then it's moot. cosleeping may help by helping cue normal breathing rythums for the baby. so too not over bundling the baby might help as well as the baby not rebreathing carbon dioxide (No fuzzy blankets stuffed animals ect in the crib.) Now if something is physiologically off kilter in the baby's heart or brain none of this may matter.

Anyone who's suffered a loss of a young child or infant will tell you that the first hours and days are so hard that you may not remember what they told you at the hospital...or what you told your relitives. you might have heard one thing that day only to be told a week later something different after all the tests were in. then you may not remember to tell extended family the revised explanation...

Hugs to all who've experienced losses like these!