Nation of Islam...

[gurlygurl2004]

I've heard of this religion or movement. I've heard that it's prodominately black and that they can't eat pork or have intimate relations with white people. I understand the not eating pork idea but why can't they interracially date, marry, or mate? Assuming that it's true.

[misschief]

guess it depends on how 'fundie' they are. my ex was a muslim, he didn't eat pork or anything made with pork, didn't date people who weren't his race (but wasn't racist, he just thought it was wrong...... which was one of our big issues), etc.... and as far as i know, most of his 'people' were black... but... i really don't know alot about it to say that's how it always is. maybe what you're hearing about is the people who become muslims in prison for protection, that happens alot.

[Little Billy]

I've heard of this religion or movement. I've heard that it's prodominately black and that they can't eat pork or have intimate relations with white people. I understand the not eating pork idea but why can't they interracially date, marry, or mate? Assuming that it's true.

Louis Farrakan is one of the (unintentionally) funniest men in America.

I do not mean to say that all members of the Nation of Islam are like him, I am just saying.

[Sage Rainsong]

Well the confusion lies between Islam proper and Nation of Islam. Nation of Islam is more of a social as well as a religious movement. It was started as a sort of black empowerment movement. Try here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_islam

[Little Billy]

Well the confusion lies between Islam proper and Nation of Islam. Nation of Islam is more of a social as well as a religious movement. It was started as a sort of black empowerment movement. Try here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_islam


Never trust Wikipedia. Look what we did to our fellow Subgenii. :lol:

Seriously, look "Subgenius" up.

[David19]

I think Malcolm X was also a member until he figured out that the guy behind it was racist (& i think rapist or pediphile or something?). I can understand not eating pork, as it's against the religion, like Jews can't do it either, but as for not dating other 'races', i think that's dumb and isn't Islam, (like i have a great aunt who married a muslim, she's Jewish, and had kids, they broke up, but that's not the point), the muslims that i know wouldn't be so dumb.

I heard that Michael Jackson was/is a member, which if he is, then it might not be the best PR they could have.

[Mouse]

Malcolm X was more than a just member wasn't he? From my research he was very racist, and violent with his protests.

[LithiumViolets]

oh goodness! this is interesting. well, i've had two members of my family who were Muslims. My uncle was a muslim "proper" I guess you'd say and my cousin for awhile was in the Nation of Islam. I have Elijah Muhammed's book "Message To The Blackman" (he is....well Farakhan is their leader bu Elijah kind of...put down all their guidelines? I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I think he's the "prophet" or something that supposedly saw God/Allah and God/Allah told him all of this to write down). Anyway, no they don't believe relationships with white people are right. I'm pretty sure Elijah Muhammed has said that the white man is the devil (no, seriously) and that he (the white man) was a descendant of Yakab/Yukab (sp?). It's not all about that...I felt the need to say that because alot of people, black or white say, "oh well those people in the Nation are just rascist and all they care about is that the white man is the devil" and that's so not true. Their reigion is in most respects just like the "proper" Muslims except for the white man thing which is understandable in context. This movement, as someone pointed out earlier, came during a time of turmoil for blacks and the midst of the Black Power movement. The Black Muslims....I don't believe joined with the Black Panthers but they were kind of lumped together (for good and for bad) becuase of their...refusal to subordinate themselves and their refusal to follow that non-violent trash...i mean, it's not trash but...I have certain views about that and MLK but nevermind....

It is, like someone said, a religious as well as a social movement. It's about empowerment of the black people and, for all its...misleadings and certain negative aspects, DOES do alot to refine Black people and bring them to a higher place. Alot fo people I've seen, particularly the men, have converted to the Nation and have become more dignified, respectful of themselves and women...alot of good habits, though strict, are implemented. Sorry for the long dusty response but I have known people in the Nation and for awhile was flirting with it myself long ago, long before I..found my current path.

ah and the thing about Malcolm X (i love him-- both the "old" him and the newer him before he died) he did leave because he found out about Elijah Muhammed's infidelities and that he was fathering many children in the group and forcing the women to stay quiet. Also, he supposedly went to Mecca and "saw the light" and figured the white man after all wasn't the devil. There is the rumor that Elijah Muhammed ordered him to be killed which is NOT the case. Although he "betrayed" them in a sense, many people who wanted to assassinate Malcolm were told BY Elijah NOT to touch him. But they did anyway. And he's dead now.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Malcolm X was more than a just member wasn't he? From my research he was very racist, and violent with his protests.
You didn't research enough.
He stopped being a racist when he left the Nation of Islam and went to Mecca.
He publicly renounced his rascist past at a news conference upon returning to America.Yes he was a rascist.When you spend your entire life being legally discriminated against.When you spend your entire life seeing "No Negro's Allowed"signs,when armed riders in white sheets coming to get you is something to really fear,you tend to hate the race that's doing that to you.

If by "violent with his protests" you mean it usually ends up with unarmed negros being waterhosed,had dogs sicced on them,and being beaten bloody by the cops,then yes.
If you mean the NOI initiated violence,no.The NOI had a reputation of keeping their protests peaceful and within the law.

Malcom was racist because he was under the spell of FALSE PROPHET.
Malcom X idolized Elijah Muhommed.He was devastated when he discovered
Elijahs dirty little secret and refused to participate in the cover-up.

If the Civil Rights of 1964 was never passed,how long did you expect blacks to take the beatings,lynchings,discrimination before they took up arms?500 years was enough.It wasn't just Martin Luther King that gain us our right,It was Malcom X,the NOI and the Black Panthers in the background reminding 'Society' that if you don't give us our rights as human beings,we are willing to fight for it.

[ValD]

Malcolm X also left the NOI because he discovered that its tenets had little to do with real Islam. Elijah Muhammed developed a weird theology that the Negro race had been created first, and that other races were the result of botched experiments by a mad scientist. (Interestingly enough, this "creation story" has a lot in common with the Scientology "creation story", although Scientology didn't appear until a couple of decades later). Thus, the Blacks are the one true race and all the others are degenerate in some way. That's why the NOI forbid intermarriage - for exactly the same reasons as groups like the KKK.
Needless to say, the Quran doesn't say anything like this. Anyone can be a Muslim, whatever their race. When Malcolm X went to Mecca, he found himself sharing tents and mosques with people of all colours; he had the revelation then that colour did not matter to Allah.
Yes, the NOI empowers Blacks - but it has about the same relationship to Islam as Mormonism does to Christianity.

[Toby Stimpson]

Malcom X's account of his Hajj is so wonderfully empowering...it really is. I studied a section of it in my history class, and really anything like that would melt the most racist of hearts. He stated within his memoir that:

"I saw a hundred different peoples all mingling together as brothers, and for the first time I was not treated as a mere black man, I was treated as an eqaul. I saw Black, Brown, Yellow and white...and for the first time I embraced a white man as a brother. This is the power of Allah." Or soemthing along those lines, Ive tried to find it again but couldnt.

With respect, I think its important to look up information before making assumptions. The Nation of Islam is prhaps the most controvercial group of Muslims in America, merely becsaue oif their past history. And Malcolm X was more like the right hand man of Elijah X foir a LOONGG time before he decided that the movement was not for him. It is not a religion unto it's self but it has had a history of a very fundamentalist Islamic viewpoint.

It is interesting to look into it's history though, if not for mere interest...but soem of it's messages are dangerous to soem degree.

Namaste

Tobias

[gurlygurl2004]

I think Malcolm X was also a member until he figured out that the guy behind it was racist (& i think rapist or pediphile or something?). I can understand not eating pork, as it's against the religion, like Jews can't do it either, but as for not dating other 'races', i think that's dumb and isn't Islam, (like i have a great aunt who married a muslim, she's Jewish, and had kids, they broke up, but that's not the point), the muslims that i know wouldn't be so dumb.

I heard that Michael Jackson was/is a member, which if he is, then it might not be the best PR they could have.


:yayah: :yayah: That is pretty funny to have Michael Jackson associated with that group. But he's really weird anyway, I can't figure him out. He's more Christian than Muslim(trust me) Anyway, I think he just used the group last time he was accused of molesting those boys. As far as I'm concerned he's white anyway.

[Vincent Verthaine]

:yayah: :yayah: That is pretty funny to have Michael Jackson associated with that group. But he's really weird anyway, I can't figure him out. He's more Christian than Muslim(trust me) Anyway, I think he just used the group last time he was accused of molesting those boys. As far as I'm concerned he's white anyway.
Actually Mj is an alien.he is metamorphing to his true form right before our eyes.

[Little Billy]

Malcolm X was more than a just member wasn't he? From my research he was very racist, and violent with his protests.


And your research consisted of...?

LB,
Is just asking.

[Little Billy]

Malcolm X also left the NOI because he discovered that its tenets had little to do with real Islam. Elijah Muhammed developed a weird theology that the Negro race had been created first, and that other races were the result of botched experiments by a mad scientist. (Interestingly enough, this "creation story" has a lot in common with the Scientology "creation story",

Mothership FTW!

[gurlygurl2004]

Actually Mj is an alien.he is metamorphing to his true form right before our eyes.
:yayah: :cheers: :yayah:

[Mouse]

And your research consisted of...?

LB,
Is just asking.

I was researching the context of Martin Luther King jr's "I have a dream" speech for english, and in a few of the books I was useing his disagreements with Malcolm X came up. Because MLKJ fought for equality and warned the coloured people against violent protests, where Malcolm X supposedly called him a coward and declared that if white people could physically hurt them, they they had the right to physically hurt the white people right back. Nothing I have ever read before this thread has ever said anything about Malcolm X being a peaceful person, but then, I was focusing on a specific time period for english so he may very well have changed his ways after his trip to Mecca. Or the sources I was useing could be biased, which can happen also.

Vincent Verthaine, I never suggested that the coloured people didn't have a reason or the right to fight back, and I never suggested that I thought any person, Black white or rainbow coloured should put up with discrimination for any period of time. I agree, 500 years was more than enough. Yea, you are right, I didn't research enough, but then I'm still trying to work out why Aussie kids are being forced to learn American history in the first place.

peace,
~mouse

[Vincent Verthaine]

...but then I'm still trying to work out why Aussie kids are being forced to learn American history in the first place.

peace,
~mouse
Manifest destiny never ended.
Welcome to the world of Emperor Bush,and Pax Americana.
Better learn the words to the Star Spangled Banner.

[ValD]

Michael Jackson was bought up as a Jehovahs Witness - his mother was a JW. He seems to have moved away from it lately - although he's not been "disfellowshipped" or formally cast out.
There have been some reports that he's considering converting to Islam. His brother Jermaine is already a convert; Jermaine lives in Dubai, which is one reason why MJ moved to nearby Bahrain.
He's not joining the NOI, however. The Nation of Islam provided bodygurds for him at his trial (probably hoping to get MJ converted), but that's where the association started and ended.

[gurlygurl2004]

I was researching the context of Martin Luther King jr's "I have a dream" speech for english, and in a few of the books I was useing his disagreements with Malcolm X came up. Because MLKJ fought for equality and warned the coloured people against violent protests, where Malcolm X supposedly called him a coward and declared that if white people could physically hurt them, they they had the right to physically hurt the white people right back. Nothing I have ever read before this thread has ever said anything about Malcolm X being a peaceful person, but then, I was focusing on a specific time period for english so he may very well have changed his ways after his trip to Mecca. Or the sources I was useing could be biased, which can happen also.

Vincent Verthaine, I never suggested that the coloured people didn't have a reason or the right to fight back, and I never suggested that I thought any person, Black white or rainbow coloured should put up with discrimination for any period of time. I agree, 500 years was more than enough. Yea, you are right, I didn't research enough, but then I'm still trying to work out why Aussie kids are being forced to learn American history in the first place.

peace,
~mouse

Do the Aussie school children learn their history as well. Here in America, we also learn histories of other countries and past empires. I remember when I was in the sixth grade taking a history course that specifically taught about the Eastern Hemisphere and didn't touch on America at all. We even learned about Australian history.

[gurlygurl2004]

Michael Jackson was bought up as a Jehovahs Witness - his mother was a JW. He seems to have moved away from it lately - although he's not been "disfellowshipped" or formally cast out.
There have been some reports that he's considering converting to Islam. His brother Jermaine is already a convert; Jermaine lives in Dubai, which is one reason why MJ moved to nearby Bahrain.
He's not joining the NOI, however. The Nation of Islam provided bodygurds for him at his trial (probably hoping to get MJ converted), but that's where the association started and ended.


Yeah, I remember watching the secret childhood of Michael Jackson on VH1. I hope he doesn't become an extreme Muslim. But then again you never, ever know about Michael Jackson. To be negative, you can say he's weird, but to be nice you could say he's eccentric at best. Personally out of the whole Jackson, I like Janet, she seems to be the most normal one, lol:yayah:

[David19]

This is probably way off topic, but i saw a picture of Michael Jackson wearing a women's burka while in the Middle East, which was pretty funny, i don't think Michael Jackson should convert to any religion as it will just bring bad press to it (plus he may only be using it to get to little kids).

[ValD]

This is probably way off topic, but i saw a picture of Michael Jackson wearing a women's burka while in the Middle East, which was pretty funny, i don't think Michael Jackson should convert to any religion as it will just bring bad press to it (plus he may only be using it to get to little kids).
That was in Bahrain, and I believe it caused quite a lot of offense to the Arabs, so he won't be doing it again. Since he's so fanatical about covering up his kids' faces, he'll be enthusiastic about making them wear burkas - the girls, anyway.
As for him "getting to little kids", IMO he's the type of paedophile who is only attracted to a certain type of child; in his case, it's pre-teen/pubescent boys.
I'm not sure what the modern Arab atitude to pederasty (homosexual paedophilia) is - Islam condemms gay sex acts between adults, but is rather more tolerant of relationships between adult men and boys (while still condemnatory of actual sexual contact). In the past it was quite open and accepted in many parts of the Arab world, which is why places like Morrocco were so popular with male Western homosexuals. So for MJ, there might be that attraction for living in the Arab states - a wealthy man with pretty boys having pyjama parties in his house isn't such a big deal there.

[omar]

Farakhan was a rascist Muslim leader of the American Muslims & was so radical years ago that the rest of the Muslim world would not recognise them. I think the do now? Morroco has been fameus for hundreds of years for having homo & bisexual relations. Not only Mislims & Jews do not eat pork but the Christian King James Bible list pork & many other foods as unclean that should not be eaten.

[Little Billy]

Farakhan was a rascist Muslim leader of the American Muslims & was so radical years ago that the rest of the Muslim world would not recognise them. I think the do now?

Nope. Everyone still laughs at him.

[DoktorSick]

the nation of islam is basically a islamic ufo cult.
In of his speeches farakhan was talking there is a ufo behind
the moon.
And then there is an sect of the nation of islam called the 5 percenters
Now if you thought the NOI wild check them out.

[Mouse]

Do the Aussie school children learn their history as well. Here in America, we also learn histories of other countries and past empires. I remember when I was in the sixth grade taking a history course that specifically taught about the Eastern Hemisphere and didn't touch on America at all. We even learned about Australian history.

*Shakes head no* If we want to learn the history of other countries we generally have to take a "modern history" course. Younger years learn about the world wars, some English history and Australian history. There is very little included on other countries (which is sad, considereing we are multi-cultural) outside of HSC history courses. :fofftopic :graduate:

[Meabh23]

All I'll say about this is:

The NOI dress sharply with bowties. (Yes, bowties.)

Michael Jackson is a JW not a NOI.

And - The Fruits of Islam is probably one of the greatest names Eris ever foisted upon a monotheistic group.

And 2 - Don't make assumptions, even about Farakhan. What you may hear may not be what the truth is.

[gurlygurl2004]

Farakhan was a rascist Muslim leader of the American Muslims & was so radical years ago that the rest of the Muslim world would not recognise them. I think the do now? Morroco has been fameus for hundreds of years for having homo & bisexual relations. Not only Mislims & Jews do not eat pork but the Christian King James Bible list pork & many other foods as unclean that should not be eaten.

The Christian King James Bible may list pork as a no-no but most Christians see it as a Jewish law and believe they don't have to follow it, so for the most part Christians will eat and drink anything(however attempt not to drink too much alcohol).

[ValD]

The Christian King James Bible may list pork as a no-no but most Christians see it as a Jewish law and believe they don't have to follow it, so for the most part Christians will eat and drink anything(however attempt not to drink too much alcohol).
The no-pork rule is only in the Old Testament (in all Bibles); it's one of the many kosher laws listed in Leviticus.
However, Christians don't follow kosher rules. This is because, in the New Testament (Acts 11:4-10, if you want to look it up), Peter relates a vision in which he was told by God that it was now OK to eat "unclean" foods such as pork.
This is why Christians condemm homosexuality "because the Bible says so!", but happily eat bacon - their Bible says that's OK!

[gurlygurl2004]

The no-pork rule is only in the Old Testament (in all Bibles); it's one of the many kosher laws listed in Leviticus.
However, Christians don't follow kosher rules. This is because, in the New Testament (Acts 11:4-10, if you want to look it up), Peter relates a vision in which he was told by God that it was now OK to eat "unclean" foods such as pork.
This is why Christians condemm homosexuality "because the Bible says so!", but happily eat bacon - their Bible says that's OK!

:yayah: Jesus himself never said anything against homosexuality. It was more like the Pharesees or one of those Old Testment religions.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Nope. Everyone still laughs at him.
I know I do.

[omar]

If you look at the unclean foods listed in the Bible you will see that almost all are very high in Cholesteral. which causes strokes & heart atacks. a very good reason to ovoid them. Bible or not.

[Bakr Salem Khawaldeh]

I've heard of this religion or movement. I've heard that it's prodominately black and that they can't eat pork or have intimate relations with white people. I understand the not eating pork idea but why can't they interracially date, marry, or mate? Assuming that it's true.


The Nation of Islam is blaphemous. It ia a farrakhanism of the Islamic religon.

The Nation of Islam teached that God will manifest as Fard Muhammad. This is nonsense. They believe in the mental resurrection of the dead and black people of America will be resurrected first because they are in the greatest need of it. More nonsense.

They believe in Yakub, nonsense again. All races are equal in Islam.

It is true the Nation of Islam forbids pork and alcohol and tobacco. They pray to the five pillars. But that is all. They are not Islam.

[Meadhbh]

I thought they were like the rest of the muslims except the fact that they were are racial groups as well. I'm not to clear on the fine points of their believes is that white people are basically some sort of evil subrace of humans and most of the world's problems can be blamed on them.

[Toby Stimpson]

He raises a good point though, if the Nation of Islam believes that and teaches that then indeed that goes against Islam which states that all worshippers of Allah are eqaul, despite race.

[CleftOfLight]

Nation of Isam besides be overtly racist,but they also believe that Elijah Mohammad was God incarnated.Which is forbidding in Islam.The Quar'an states that God never has,never will take human form.

THey believe white poeple were created by a mad acientist millions of years ago.That by creating the white abomination the world is corrupt and they must fix this by erraticating every white person on earth.