Hex Or Bind?

[Dustypuppy]

Been discussing this with my university group, the ethics behind each of them. Each situation is different admittedly, but will hexing ever improve a sgiven situation?Sure, it may make one feel better in the short term, but if you are to look at the bigger picture its just going to add more negativity to an already dirty situation, thus creating a bigger problem in the long term. Is hexing necessary when other paths could be taken to resolve the issue, if so, what sort of situations would call for it to be put into effect?x

[Shanti]

Well thats easy to answer.
If your are a person who lives for negativity and its your flavor, then hexing would be a good thing for you.
Not everyone thrives on good ya know.

[Dustypuppy]

maybe, but it completely goes against the law of karma, if one follows the wiccan path, then surely hexing cannot be a part of ones practice, traditional witchcraft has a different view on this i know, however, we are trying to get Paganism and witchcraft more accepted in the general community, hexing wont help............

[Shanti]

maybe, but it completely goes against the law of karma, if one follows the wiccan path, then surely hexing cannot be a part of ones practice, traditional witchcraft has a different view on this i know, however, we are trying to get Paganism and witchcraft more accepted in the general community, hexing wont help............

It all depends on how an individual interprets karma. You have a lot of people who perceive definitions very differently.
You even have differences on the perceptions of what traditional is and even what Wicca is all about. Karma and its variables to individual interpretation can be very unusual in some ideals.

I have heard some say that in doing what some would call bad, like hexing, that they dont get bad karma back because they 'are' the persons karma. They are the delivers of a persons due bad karma. Karma comes from somewhere so who's to say it can not come from another person? As they say its a dirty job but someone has to do it.
Its all perception.

Nothing metaphysical can be proven as a physicasl fact so interpretations can vary without limits.

Its all individual and uniquely so. :)

[Dawa Lhamo]

Eh, hexing is like anything else: if you're willing to accept the consequences of your actions, if it's worth it to you, then why not do it? The real question is when is it worth it?

Karma isn't really a Wiccan concept. I think the Law of Return gets conflated with Karma too often. In any case, it's not against either "Law" at all. The "laws" aren't Commandments like "Thou shalt not kill", but rather more like scientific laws which seek to explain the action/reaction nature of the world, without moral determination.

Wicca doesn't say "do no harm"... it says that a person should be aware of the consequences of his actions, and to act with that awareness in mind. The Rede is ethical advice, but it's not a doctrinal tenet. We have precious few of those.

There's a Buddhist story that addresses this kind of problem in terms of karma. I'll try and find it. Ah, here (http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Bodhisattva_Warriors,_by_Chagdud_Tulku_Rinpoche) it is: A Buddhist story tells of a ferry captain whose boat was carrying 500 bodhisattvas in the guise of merchants. A robber on board planned to kill everyone and pirate the ship's cargo.

The captain, a bodhisattva himself, saw the man's murderous intention and realized this crime would result in eons of torment for the murderer. In his compassion, the captain was willing to take hellish torment upon himself by killing the man to prevent karmic suffering that would be infinity greater than the suffering of the murdered victims. The captain's compassion was impartial; his motivation was utterly selfless.The thing is, ethically, the captain was right to do what was necessary to both protect the bodhisattvas and to prevent the thief from committing the heinous act. But he still had to go through hellish torment for committing a murder. (I'd point out that being a bodhisattva himself, he was in a better position than most to really determine the consequences of his actions and that of others, and as such, he was able to determine that yes, it was *necessary*.)

Murdering someone isn't "against the Law of Karma", but rather, if the captain had received some kind of grace that pardoned him from his punishment, THAT would be against the natural law of karma.

So, going back to Wicca, I see Wiccan ethics as functioning *somewhat* similarly... it asks you to consider the consequences of all your actions. It doesn't tell you what you should decide, though it does suggest (as far as I know it) that you act out of Love.

Although, to answer your question as written, of course not. You wrote: Is hexing necessary when other paths could be taken to resolve the issue? The definition of "necessary" means something that is logically unavoidable, meaning that there are *no* other viable options. So something is NEVER *necessary* if there are other options available. ^_^

Is hexing *acceptable* if there are other options available? That's a question that actually takes some ethical consideration. For myself, I would say no. If there are other options that are effective, then my ethics would tell me to go with the other options. Some people add another line to the Rede: "An' it cause harm, do what ye must." Must. No more, no less.

My ethical impetus is to cause minimum harm, and to take whatever paths that I think will cause least harm... But if I've *seriously* analyzed a situation, and I've come to the conclusion that there is no other way around it, and if I care so deeply about it that I'm willing to take whatever consequences, then I'm gonna go ahead and hex the bugger.

But ALL actions deserve this kind of deep deliberation. Because we can't breathe, we can't eat without causing harm. None of it should be flippant. A poster on another list I'm on always signs off with the words "Live Deliberately!". I think this is the key of Wiccan ethics.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Ptah]

Been discussing this with my university group, the ethics behind each of them. Each situation is different admittedly, but will hexing ever improve a sgiven situation?Sure, it may make one feel better in the short term, but if you are to look at the bigger picture its just going to add more negativity to an already dirty situation, thus creating a bigger problem in the long term. Is hexing necessary when other paths could be taken to resolve the issue, if so, what sort of situations would call for it to be put into effect?x

Hexing is an aggressive work and binding is passive, like building a fort. I've learned that hexing another person tends to be worse on the hexer than the hexee. Thats because often hexing is done in anger and not well thought out. A binding is used to keep another from doing harm, in that case the "karma" could only be good. You must be careful, though. Needlessly binding others because of perceived magickal attacks (when there is not conclusive proof) will also often backfire.

That is the processes, the ethics are all yours.

[Dawa Lhamo]

I have heard some say that in doing what some would call bad, like hexing, that they dont get bad karma back because they 'are' the persons karma. They are the delivers of a persons due bad karma. Karma comes from somewhere so who's to say it can not come from another person? As they say its a dirty job but someone has to do it.
Its all perception.Put simply, I would say that such people are misguided. No unenlightened person can be a conscious agent of another person's karma. They simply *cannot* know enough about the universe to even approach making such a decision. I would say that it's dangerously arrogant to even consider it.

Unconsciously, of course, we all act within the field of karma... But karma is never a good excuse for harming someone. It's simply making excuses (with a religious veneer) for seeking revenge.

It might be their perception that they're doing right and "above karma", but it's my perception that they're deluding themselves, and that karma is inherent in all actions, no matter who, what, when, where, or why. If they were truly enlightened, then they'd most certainly know that.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Shanti]

Put simply, I would say that such people are misguided. No unenlightened person can be a conscious agent of another person's karma. They simply *cannot* know enough about the universe to even approach making such a decision. I would say that it's dangerously arrogant to even consider it.

Unconsciously, of course, we all act within the field of karma... But karma is never a good excuse for harming someone. It's simply making excuses (with a religious veneer) for seeking revenge.

It might be their perception that they're doing right and "above karma", but it's my perception that they're deluding themselves, and that karma is inherent in all actions, no matter who, what, when, where, or why. If they were truly enlightened, then they'd most certainly know that.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

Even the term 'enlightened' can mean differant things to differant people.
There are those who could disagree with you because they have a truth thats not the same as yours and see it all very differantly.
There are a lot of variations out there. Its all personal idealogy.

Anything metaphysical is simply a matter of personal opinion and feelings. Ones persons bad is anothers good and one persons good is anothers bad.

There is no right or wrong except what we feel for ourselves.
Nor should we pass judgement on another.
We should only judge ourselves in our metaphysical beliefs.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Even the term 'enlightened' can mean differant things to differant people.
There are those who could disagree with you because they have a truth thats not the same as yours and see it all very differantly.
There are a lot of variations out there. Its all personal idealogy.

Anything metaphysical is simply a matter of personal opinion and feelings. Ones persons bad is anothers good and one persons good is anothers bad.

There is no right or wrong except what we feel for ourselves.
Nor should we pass judgement on another.
We should only judge ourselves in our metaphysical beliefs.Then why post at all? To say that everything is absolutely relative, you are inherently saying that those who do not follow absolute relativism, who think that perhaps some vague guidelines are helpful, are flawed. In order for absolute relativism to be correct, it has to be an absolute truth... therefore paradoxical. How do you resolve this?

Personally, I think people can have personal truths and such without being so open-minded that they lose all sense of reason (that their brains fall out of their heads).

We HAVE to judge. It's part of our nature. Because there are things we don't know. And if we are to interact at all with other people, we are going to have to make some tentative guesses about them. As long as we make sure that they're temporary, that the introduction of actual evidence will replace them, then it's merely part of being a human.

You've already judged me a thousand times over in this thread alone. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[shuvanilu]

There has only been one time where I almost brought my self to hex....but changed my mind and went at things from a different angle. I was going to hex my abusive x-husband. What i did instead was a ritual to help him see that the way he treated women and lived his life in general was wrong. And let's just say it was a strongly worded spell! I have read Z Budapest talk about hexing rapists etc...And I can definitely see where she's coming from. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "you must know how to hex if you want to know how to heal". Are you doing it to help the greater good? well...that's sticky isn't it? But when it comes down to it, it's not the karmic rebound that I fear. It's that I don't see that it is my right to be the bringer of retribution/punishment/harm on anyone because of their actions. That is up to The Divine. And they will get theirs...right? Now, that isn't to say that we should all sit nicely with our arms folded silently hoping that God/dess will do Her thing. If someone is harming you or someone else, call the cops/leave/whatever you need to do to be safe. If we're talking about binding or hexing to "get back at" another witch...not the best idea, imho. 1) Do you know that they are trying to magickally harm you? 2) If so, let their karma take care of it. Instead of binging/hexing them, do a protective spell for yourself. Just my 2 cents.---shuvanilu

[juliaki]

Ultimately the choice of whether you hex, bind, or simply ignore whatever it was that caused you to consider either of those options will depend on a case-by-case basis.

There are times when binding an individual is far more unethical than a hex. (A lot of it has to do with the way it is designed. Most people I know often put “outs” on hexes so that an individual can be set free from it if they stop engaging in the action that caused the need for the hex, whereas most of the people I’ve seen who write bindings tie that person up for all eternity.)

The one comment of “we are trying to get Paganism and witchcraft more accepted in the general community, hexing won’t help….” is troublesome to me. I’m wondering why, even if an individual has hexed someone, the community at large would know about it? Aside from those hexes that draw strength from the fear generated by the person who is hexed, I can’t think of any reason why you’d let anyone know that you’ve hexed anyone.

I also disagree with the statement that a binding used to keep another from doing harm would result only in good karma. I’ve seen more forms of binding done out of malice and anger than out of thoughtfulness and consideration. At that point, the GIGO principle applies.

One thing that I would suggest to anyone considering using either method is not to do it from a state of rage. Anger, on the other hand, is not an eeeeevil emotion. There are times when it is not only a good thing to get angry, but would be ethically irresponsible (IMO) *not* to get angry. Anger, when used properly, can be very effective towards bringing about positive outcomes using either method.