This Universe?

[Dustypuppy]

Finite or infinite?

[Vincent Verthaine]

Finite or infinite?
Infinite but Oscillating.
I believe that science will discover in the near future there is enough matter in the universe to cause a Big Crunch.

[Cindlady2]

Ever notice how particles ie: electron, neutrons & protons are like little star systems? Hummm... could it be? :stomp: :awilly:

[Vincent Verthaine]

Ever notice how particles ie: electron, neutrons & protons are like little star systems? Hummm... could it be? :stomp: :awilly:
As above,so below.

[Brandon Bee]

Ever notice how particles ie: electron, neutrons & protons are like little star systems? Hummm... could it be? :stomp: :awilly:
Wow. That's pretty odd.


I think the universe is infinite, which is really hard to comprehend.. hehe..

[2steps]

infinate

[Xentor]

Finite.

[AstralMagick]

Finate.
I do believe there could be a larger system beyond the universe though.

[ap Dafydd]

I'm with the finite school of thought, although I know that the scientists are currently leaning the other way.

In a funny sort of way, it's a satisfying thought to think that there will be a big crunch at the end and possibly even a further universe resulting from it.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Faelon_Moon_Hawk]

Finite or infinite?

infinate, ever expanding....'course i suppose that can't go on forever...even the biggest balloon will pop if pushed enough...

[Meadhbh]

Finite, something couldn't be if it didn't have both a begining and an end.

[RhiannynWildseed]

Both

Infinite because I think it is larger than we will ever comprehend, and finite in the sense that I think all the matter came from one point, and I don't think the empty vaccum of space can just spontaneously spawn matter from nothing.

I know that sounds really weird. It's hard to explain.

[Rhisiart]

Definitely Finite.

I subscribe tio the theory that our universe is but One in a ever growing cluster of other universes, like an individual soap bubble in an infinte tub. Universes are constantly in various states of birth, death, rise and decline, where perhaps the death of one helps create the birth of another. Ever wonder where all that matter consumed by those massive black holes that now seems to be at the center of every massive galaxy goes?

Our Universe may seem infinite, but I like to think that if I could fly across it at a speed faster than light, that eventually I would end up right where I started. The sheer mass of the Universe makes it impossible to travel a straight line thru to the furthest point and instead you would gradually curve with the bend of space back to your point of origin. How else do we see the light from galactic births of stars and galaxies that are far beyond us, far past us, if we are simply expanding from a single point in space? I think Einstein proposed this sometime ago as well, but I cant quite remember how it went...

[RhiannynWildseed]

How else do we see the light from galactic births of stars and galaxies that are far beyond us, far past us, if we are simply expanding from a single point in space? I think Einstein proposed this sometime ago as well, but I cant quite remember how it went...

"You're not thinking fourth dimensionally."

Hehe, I love that line Christopher Lloyd uses in the Back to the Future. I don't know if it really is what I mean here, but it sounds funny. :)

But seriously...when a star is born, the light doesn't just burst out on a flat plane. It bursts from it in 360 degrees x 360 degrees x 360 degrees....etc. (taking into account that a flat circle is 360 degrees, but being a sphere, you would have to go around it by each degree and get a new 360 degrees) So really, no matter where we are in the universe we should still be able to see the birth of a bright new star whether it's in front of us, behind us, above us, below us....whatever.

I think the universe itself is expanding much the same way. I can't see the universe just expanding as one flat disk. I know there are theories that the universe is just one giant galaxy and that it is too vast for us to see its shape, but I don't know if I believe that.

Also, I had this thought....dimensions themselves. How many are there to this universe? Will we ever know? Probably not. So in that way also, it could be infinite.

[Rhisiart]

But seriously...when a star is born, the light doesn't just burst out on a flat plane. It bursts from it in 360 degrees x 360 degrees x 360 degrees....etc. (taking into account that a flat circle is 360 degrees, but being a sphere, you would have to go around it by each degree and get a new 360 degrees) So really, no matter where we are in the universe we should still be able to see the birth of a bright new star whether it's in front of us, behind us, above us, below us....whatever.

Also, I had this thought....dimensions themselves. How many are there to this universe? Will we ever know? Probably not. So in that way also, it could be infinite.

I didnt mean to imply that we are expanding on a 2 dimensional surface. We are expanding out in all directions at a constant rate, though its no where near as fast a when the Universe first formed.

I guess I didnt explain it the way Im seeing it. Its kinda hard to be simple about it...without being complex ya know....heh. I'll let it pass for now but think about this one...scientists have just seen the birth of a supermassive star that died some 12.5 billion years ago. If the Universe is only 13.8 billion years old, how come were seeing it now, 12 million years after the fact? Were not in the great galactic center of everything, to the contrary we are far from it, nestled in a great arm of galaxies. Some would say the distance from us has kept the event from us BUT I say, that was 12 billion years ago. We were aLL alot closer in space 1 billion years after its beginning, by rights we shouldve seen this event possibly no more than 8 billion years ago allowing expansion, but were only seeing it now. Get what Im askin? Me neither! lol but it sure warps me brainy parts, it does!!

But I sorta agree with you about the dimensions, although Im not one for the alternate reality dimensional theories, more a multitude of dimensions that reflect different quantum aspects of particle and energies. Each is but a layering to THIS Universe, but thats another post, all together...."but that's another post..."...lol. ok I shut up now...promise

[RhiannynWildseed]

I didnt mean to imply that we are expanding on a 2 dimensional surface. We are expanding out in all directions at a constant rate, though its no where near as fast a when the Universe first formed.

I guess I didnt explain it the way Im seeing it. Its kinda hard to be simple about it...without being complex ya know....heh. I'll let it pass for now but think about this one...scientists have just seen the birth of a supermassive star that died some 12.5 billion years ago. If the Universe is only 13.8 billion years old, how come were seeing it now, 12 million years after the fact? Were not in the great galactic center of everything, to the contrary we are far from it, nestled in a great arm of galaxies. Some would say the distance from us has kept the event from us BUT I say, that was 12 billion years ago. We were aLL alot closer in space 1 billion years after its beginning, by rights we shouldve seen this event possibly no more than 8 billion years ago allowing expansion, but were only seeing it now. Get what Im askin? Me neither! lol but it sure warps me brainy parts, it does!!

But I sorta agree with you about the dimensions, although Im not one for the alternate reality dimensional theories, more a multitude of dimensions that reflect different quantum aspects of particle and energies. Each is but a layering to THIS Universe, but thats another post, all together...."but that's another post..."...lol. ok I shut up now...promise

Yeah, a lot of it is really hard to wrap your brain around. I mean, hell, I'm no Steven Hawking, that's for sure.

[RunningBear]

When one measures the size of the Universe then, like the size of anything else, the answer depends on the the observer. To an observer on Earth the Universe appears very large and takes billions of years to traverse. But if you were able to build yourself a spaceship and travel at a velocity close to that of the speed of light (without exceeding it of course) then the Universe would apear very small indeed and could be traversed in a few minutes. Why? because Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity has a premise that requires the velocity of light to be the same for all observers. So the observer in the space ship experiences extreme relative length contaction while those on Earth experience extreme relative time dilation. This is required otherwise when they measured the velocity of light they would get different answers. So yes you do have to think in 4 dimensions and the size of the Universe depends on how it is observed.

[Crimson Mage]

Try this one on for size......

Imagine for a moment that the universe is just like an orb, three dimensional and finite. It would also follow that things that reach the end of the universe (the edge of the orb) either bounce back towards the center or travel along the edge (these things cant leave, so they have to do something).

Now, what you see on your planet depends totally on where you are in the universe. If you happen to be somewhere in the center of the orb, and a star at the edge goes supernova -- youll see the light it emminates at least once, possibly twice -- once as it travels towards you, and once again as it travels back towards you after bouncing off the far edge.

If you were on the edge instead of in the center, you might see it three times actually, not just twice. Youd see it as it travels towards you along the edge...youll also see it as it bounces bakc from the far side, and a third time because a certain amount of this light will travel the LONG way around the edge and back to you - all the way around the outside.

I'm not saying any of this is true, its just interesting to think about.

[Rhisiart]

Try this one on for size......

Imagine for a moment that the universe is just like an orb, three dimensional and finite. It would also follow that things that reach the end of the universe (the edge of the orb) either bounce back towards the center or travel along the edge (these things cant leave, so they have to do something).

Now, what you see on your planet depends totally on where you are in the universe. If you happen to be somewhere in the center of the orb, and a star at the edge goes supernova -- youll see the light it emminates at least once, possibly twice -- once as it travels towards you, and once again as it travels back towards you after bouncing off the far edge.

If you were on the edge instead of in the center, you might see it three times actually, not just twice. Youd see it as it travels towards you along the edge...youll also see it as it bounces bakc from the far side, and a third time because a certain amount of this light will travel the LONG way around the edge and back to you - all the way around the outside.

I'm not saying any of this is true, its just interesting to think about.

THATS sorta what Im talkin about! Universe is bubble, 3 dimensional, but if you think of it as only 2 dimensional, you have all sorts of things that change. Im too fried to try and explain...oop ack!! but you get my drift, Mage...

[Cindlady2]

OK, People keep talking about the expanding universe..... where is it expanding into?

It seems people are thinking of the universe as a defined area, like a galaxy. A galaxy is a part of the universe. Then the universe is a part of what?

posted by:Meadhbh
"Finite, something couldn't be if it didn't have both a beginning and an end."

What is beyond the end? Walls? An energy field? Nothing? What would be beyond that? Where would 'nothing' end?

Even in the 'doughnut' therory.... what's beyond the doughnut?

[Vincent Verthaine]

OK, People keep talking about the expanding universe..... where is it expanding into?

It seems people are thinking of the universe as a defined area, like a galaxy. A galaxy is a part of the universe. Then the universe is a part of what?

posted by:Meadhbh
"Finite, something couldn't be if it didn't have both a beginning and an end."

What is beyond the end? Walls? An energy field? Nothing? What would be beyond that? Where would 'nothing' end?

Even in the 'doughnut' therory.... what's beyond the doughnut?

The Universe next door.

[Cindlady2]

Lol!