Mary-a Goddess In All But Name?

[Dustypuppy]

Your views?x

[Cassie]

Mary the mother of Jesus or Mary Magdaline or some other Mary?

[Meadhbh]

If I had to pick one I would assume it is Mary the mother of Jesus. I suppose you could think that. Although the one thing she has going againist her goddesshood is the fact that outside the Catholic church she isn't really given that high of a status. I could be wrong but while most churches respect her they don't really think of her as anything than the mother of Jesus and that her role in the catholic church is a proof of their not quiet christainess.

[Dustypuppy]

yeah, mother of Jesus, also, Magdalene now you mention it, how do y'all see her role?

[Faeawyn]

Hmmm....I'm not sure how to express it. For me, I have a tremendous amount of respect and reverence for her as the woman who was the mother of Jesus...but I began to view her more as a deity after researching the different sighting reports of her and the message she seemed to be tryng to convey. For me, she's more like an enlightened spirit or being and I do pray to her when I'm in need of something specific...such as love or health issues.

[shuvanilu]

If she is a Goddess to you, then she is a Goddess. IMHO, it works that way with a lot of beings. Take Jesus, for example. Some she Him as God Himself. Others see Him as a special avatar of God. Some see Him as a prophet. Some see Him as a simple teacher. Some say He never even existed. Mary is what you believe in your heart She is. For me, I see Mary Magdelene, Mother Mary, and Sophia as a perfectly good example of the Maiden/Mother/Crone triad. The church would disagree with me. Most Pagans would disagree with me. And that's ok. Free thought is a good thing.

----shuvanilu

[BlackMagicalCat]

Mary,the Mother of God,Queen of heaven,,as she is called by the catholics,in my humble opinion,is thier Goddess,though they deny it,they nevertheless give her worship,and lift up prayers to her,and petition her,and honor her daily.

They just wont admit it.They cant,because they would have to change thier views a bit.

Perhaps its a Goddesses way of making them all pray to her,but making them think they arent,so she openly displays them,as her servants,and makes them sing to her,and pray to her,even though they wont admit her Goddess Hood.She is making an open example out of them,that even though they wont admit she is Goddess,she makes them sing to her anyway,and honor her anyway.

But,I suppose I could be wrong.

[Cassie]

When I was at university I wrote my thesis on Mary and theVirgin Birth. Unfortunately I don't have my notes with me now; but I did find out some interesting things such as that fact that some of the earliest christian sects did worship Mary as God and equal with The Father and The Son. Of course they were rooted out of the mainstream church.

Personally I think many modern Catholics do virtually worship Mary as Azzeenasman said, but according to the official doctrine it isn't quite that way.

It is interesting that in the time since Jesus, it seems to be Mary that appears in some of the most famous Catholic miricles such as Lourdes and Fatima.

Mary Magdaline is also given more prominence in some of the traditions that were deemed heretical by the mainstream church. Personally I think the two Marys are the most interesting charectors in the Bible and I feel a strong connection to both of them. I sort of wish Christians would allow their stories to be told and discussed more fully.

[LadyCelt]

I do see definate similarities towars worship of a goddess and Mary. I do not know if she is techically a goddess. But, I think if you want to make her one, go for it. I have been told Mary Magdelene was degraded when the Virgin Mary was upgraded. I do see similarities wtih being called the Queen of Heaven.

[Tigerlily]

If I had to pick one I would assume it is Mary the mother of Jesus. I suppose you could think that. Although the one thing she has going againist her goddesshood is the fact that outside the Catholic church she isn't really given that high of a status. I could be wrong but while most churches respect her they don't really think of her as anything than the mother of Jesus and that her role in the catholic church is a proof of their not quiet christainess.

Christian Orthodox churches also have a high respect for Mary.

[Morgandria]

Well, IMO, if anyone's gonna say what's Christian it's the Catholics - they started the whole ball rolling. They were the only game in town for about 1500 years. So I always find it really funny when people get up in arms about how they're "not quite Christian". If they hadn't been there, there would be no protesting Protestant churches, and those churches are reactionary. They're like teenagers - of course they're going to complain that their parents didn't go far enough, or weren't doing things right. *shrugs*

At any rate, some of who and what Mary is was taken from the worship of Isis. The Egyptian Christians in particular saw many similarities between the holy family of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, and Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Mary even wears Isis' colours. As far as I'm concerned Mary has aspects of Isis in her, and may be considered a modern face of Isis.

Although the one thing she has going againist her goddesshood is the fact that outside the Catholic church she isn't really given that high of a status.

Does this mean our gods and goddesses aren't really deities because outside of paganism they don't have high status, then? Public opinion does not change the nature of the deity or entity- it simply provides a lens or filter that an individual can view that deity or entity through, for a particular perspective. If someone else isn't looking through that public filter, then they may see something different.

The Catholics revere Mary as the Mother of God, in time-honoured ritual ways - but not as worship. The Protestants see that reverence as worship, and idolatry, since they stripped the ritual out of their path a long time ago. A different filter for each group - but whatever Mary is, she's still exactly that.

[Greyharp]

The virtual deification of Mary by the Catholics is not something that is backed up by their Scripture, which is why the Protestants have such a problem with it. According to the Bible she was just an ordinary, but pious woman. Making her into a goddess would be like making Mother Teresa into one, when we know she was a human being just like us, (or Jesus himself for that matter). Even Jesus, according to the Bible, took the time to explain that his mother was no more special than any of his followers:

"While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
Matthew 12:46-50

It has always puzzled me why any Pagan would want to honour the gods of any religion that believes all other religions are evil and false. Each to their own I suppose.

[David19]

Not all Christians believe that every other religion is false or evil, like most of my friends don't believe Christianity is the 'one, right way'.

Anyway, i don't know too much about Christianity, but i think Mary could be seen as a god, i can't remember exactly where, but i think i read somewhere that there was something mystical/supernatural about Mary (after all, carrying a child of a god probably requires someone special/mystical or supernatural.

Also she does appear in a lot of visions, she seems peaceful and loving, so anyone wants to pray to her, pray.

[_Banbha_]

Being raised and educated Catholic, my experience is that Mary, while we were conditioned not to specifically refer to Her as a Goddess, was the most beloved and revered in the "pantheon." I know many Catholics, and some quite conservative ones at that, who only pray to Mary.

[Philosophia]

I think she was a Goddess, but thats my opinion.

[Novembers River]

Personally I think many modern Catholics do virtually worship Mary as Azzeenasman said, but according to the official doctrine it isn't quite that way.



I was raised Catholic as well and went through all the rituals through confirmation (not by choice though). The one fond memory I do have of Catholicism is the Mother Mary. I was always drawn to Mary and prayed to her always. I can not remember praying to Jesus and only sometimes to God. I connected with Mary and when they handed out the little picture cards during CCE I would always choose hers.

She is my good memory of my religious upbringing and I still hold on to it. I see her as Goddess today and feel blessed that I was able to connect with Goddess at a young age even if I didn't quite realize it then.

I see Goddess in many aspects and Mary is no different.

[cartweel]

Oftentimes I think it's helpful to look at Mary from this angle: As Christianity spread throughout the "New World", it seems that the indiginous populations there tended to feel the lack of goddess-centered worship within the fairly patriarchal Christian system. As a result, those attempting to convert the natives stressed the role of Mary and elevated her to the rank of pseudo-goddess in order to give Christianity more appeal. This could be why Roman Catholicism throughout Middle and South America stresses Mary's role so much even today.

Mind you, I didn't come up with all of that. That's just something I heard a while ago that came, unfortunately, without a source. Take it how you will.

Personally, all I've got to say is that I feel the same sense of presence when visiting the local Mary shrine as I did standing before ancient statues of Artemis in Turkey. So as far as I am concerned, whether she is "officially" a goddess or not, Mary means a lot to me and I consider her to represent many of the same ideas as pagan goddesses, but in a different way.

[_Banbha_]

Oftentimes I think it's helpful to look at Mary from this angle: As Christianity spread throughout the "New World", it seems that the indiginous populations there tended to feel the lack of goddess-centered worship within the fairly patriarchal Christian system. As a result, those attempting to convert the natives stressed the role of Mary and elevated her to the rank of pseudo-goddess in order to give Christianity more appeal. This could be why Roman Catholicism throughout Middle and South America stresses Mary's role so much even today.

I think what you say is true, but go to any predominatly Catholic country like Ireland, Italy or even secular Spain and you'll see it too. She filled a void for early European Christains as well. I'd wager that Christainity would never had made it at all in Pagan Europe if not for Mary and the Saints ( many who were 'adopted' pagan gods or pagan figures anyway).

[Akhkharu Asgard]

Am I the only who read the Bible and knows that defying Mary is a big no no is Christian religion. And those who claim to be Christians who deify her are breaking a rather large rule.

My thoughts: Mary was a mortal human who was chosen to give birth to the son of god. Period. She was a mortal before and she was a mortal after. She died, just like every mortal. She has no attributes of a goddess. The Bible, nor God ever said Mary was any more than a mortal human who was chosen to help out a bit.

[_Banbha_]

Am I the only who read the Bible and knows that defying Mary is a big no no is Christian religion. And those who claim to be Christians who deify her are breaking a rather large rule.

My thoughts: Mary was a mortal human who was chosen to give birth to the son of god. Period. She was a mortal before and she was a mortal after. She died, just like every mortal. She has no attributes of a goddess. The Bible, nor God ever said Mary was any more than a mortal human who was chosen to help out a bit.I don't know about 'Christians,' but Roman Catholic interpretation and experience, I've got down cold. Mary is the thing in common experience for the majority Catholics I've known. She may have begun mortal, but she was raised whole into Heaven thus becoming more than than human. She is the Queen of Heaven, the Star of the Sea, The Lady of Lordes....and the last Pope believed when she last visited earth she prophesied his being shot. She's alive and well and central to the tradition. Many people from Protestant traditions interpert the bible differently and made it a point to excise the feminine. Read up on an unbiased balanced view the Reformation. Your thoughts are your own and you welcome to them.:) Just remember for every sentence of the bible, there's about 40 interpretations.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

I don't know about 'Christians,' but Roman Catholic interpretation and experience, I've got down cold. Mary is the thing in common experience for the majority Catholics I've known. She may have begun mortal, but she was raised whole into Heaven thus becoming more than than human. She is the Queen of Heaven, the Star of the Sea, The Lady of Lordes....and the last Pope believed when she last visited earth she prophesied his being shot. She's alive and well and central to the tradition. Many people from Protestant traditions interpert the bible differently and made it a point to excise the feminine. Read up on an unbiased balanced view the Reformation. Your thoughts are your own and you welcome to them.:) Just remember for every sentence of the bible, there's about 40 interpretations.

Of course, those going to heaven may possibly transcend their current stature on Earth too. As they will no longer be human. *shrugs* Thanks for your input though. I don't know a lot about Roman Catholicism.

[Temptation]

I was raised Roman Catholic. My family is predominantly Spanish. One thing I can tell you all for certain is that, in most parts of Spain, the Virgin Mary is worshipped like a Goddess. In the southern part of the country she is a Goddess in everything but name. Whole churches have been built for her, precessions are held for her, she is the religious figure people pray to the most, before God and before Jesus. The level of devotion for her in southern Spain is staggering. You want to witness true Mary worship, go to Seville during Holy Week (Easter Week). It's really something.

The Church likely won't ever give her Goddess status, but the people of Spain have done so for centuries now.

[argento_occhi]

I don't know what Mary is, we're a bunch of Protestants in our family, so I'm not familiar with how Roman Catholics view Her. I have Catholic friends, but yeah. It's not something I'm familar with, not until one of my characters decided they wanted to be ROman Catholic then I had to look into it.

But as for my own personal thoughts, I've felt for a long time now that Mary is Someone. I don't know Who, but She seems to me to be tied to Isis and Aset and Who She once was isn't quite known to me, but She was/is a Goddess to me. Maybe it's my connection with Aset that makes me think this way. I don't know.

It may stem from me not being able to explain why Cathlocism feels very familiar to me, even though it's not something I was raised in, and haven't really known except from what i've read about it. I've felt this connection to Mary, and I want to find out Who She is. I have prayed the rosary a couple of times, and I've noticed Her hanging around when I do. Well, I think it's Her. I'm not quite sure. Her and Aset and Isis seem to be melted together for me, and I'm not quite sure where one starts and the other ends and the third begins. They almost feel like aspects of Someone else I haven't got a name for and can't identify.

I know I haven't got any real facts to back up my thoughts, this is just how I experience Her and my thoughts on this. I've been thinking about it for a while now. Christmas seems to have taken on a weirdness for me the last few years, as I've had Mary on my mind a lot during that time. Actually, She almost feels like Nebthet too. So we have this weird Aset-Isis-Mary-Nebthet thing. Yeah. I hope this makes sense.

Argent

[BlueMoon13]

...... She was a mortal before and she was a mortal after. She died, just like every mortal.Yes, but how often does THIS happen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition

She has no attributes of a goddess......
Miracles of healing have been attributed to her, or perhaps more correctly, to her intercession on a petitioner's behalf....Perhaps she could be considered along the lines of a loa or orisha, who may have once been alive but has been transformed since her corporeal prescence on earth?