Mysterious Creatures: Are Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster Real or False?

[Philosophia]

Mysterious Creatures: Are Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster Real or False?

From here (http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/2006-03-28-voa1.cfm).

So are they real or not?

[Valnorran]

I voted "maybe." I'm 98% convinced there's no Nessie. I'd write off Bigfoot but for three things.

1. American Indian accounts. They describe an animal that closely resembles an ape in both appearance and behavior. According to the white man's science, there are no apes indigenous to the Americas. So how can the indigenous people so closely describe an animal that isn't supposed to be there and never has been? Maybe science got it wrong.

2. The Patterson/Gimlin film. I honestly don't know if the subject in the film is a real bigfoot or a guy in a suit, but if it's a man in a suit it's probably the most extraordinary hoax ever perpetrated. John Chambers did the costumes for the original Planet of the Apes movies. There was a persistent rumor that he made the suit for the Patterson film. He denied it at his retirement party and said such a suit was beyond his capabilities. If even he didn't have the ability to make such a convincing suit, who the heck did? Remember, the Patterson film was shot in 1967. They didn't have the special effects technology we have today.

3. The track casts. Some casts of footprints show dermal ridges. Fingerprint expert Jim Chillicut of the Conroe, TX police department analyzed them and said the pattern didn't conform to either human feet or the feet of other apes. His analysis convinced him bigfoot is real.

These three factors are not absolute proof. Absolute proof will not come until someone provides a body (or a substantial portion of one). But I think they're enough for us (and science) to seriously investigate the matter. As researcher Rene Dahinden said, "Something is making those tracks and I want to know what it is."

[Laisrean]

It is possible these things are neither real nor false but spirits or something.

[DoktorSick]

Nessie is not real because something like that would require alot of food and
some people with harpoons would have had that thing hanging on a wall by now.People will hunt down whales but all they want to use is sonar to find nessie.Come are talking about humans here.

And the same goes for bigfoot.When looking for bigfoot they always seem to have a camra but not gun.And how come they find can find tracks and hairy that is supposed to come from bigfoot but not one fossil?And i again I say we humans love to hunt someone would have a bigfoot carcass stuffed and mounted in there tropy room by now.
To say these things are spirits is just to make and excuse for the lack of evidence.

[Valnorran]

And the same goes for bigfoot.When looking for bigfoot they always seem to have a camra but not gun.
Well, there aren't that many people actually looking. Sasquatch hunting has very poor salary. And, believe it or not, a few jurisdictions have made it illegal to kill one. And as I understand the hunting and game laws in most (if not all) states, if you don't have a permit to hunt that particular species, your killing it is illegal. As for those who seriously look for bigfoot, they've given this a lot of consideration. There are three big problems that immediately spring up.
1. Now that you've killed it, how do you transport the body? An animal that size probably weighs, at the very least, something like 500 pounds, and they live (assuming they exist at all) in very remote places. Places that generally don't have roads. And if you can't get the carcass out of there quickly, you might tun into my next point.

2. As a primate (again, assuming it exists), it's probably a social animal. If you kill one there's a good chance some of his friends are close by. And they will not be amused.

3. Now that you've killed one, you've probably committed a crime.
And how come they find can find tracks and hairy that is supposed to come from bigfoot but not one fossil?
There have been a few bones found of gigantopithecus blackii, a prehistoric ape believed to have stood as much as ten feet tall. Some think that bigfoot could be surviving relic bands of gigantopithecus, or perhaps a similar species.
And i again I say we humans love to hunt someone would have a bigfoot carcass stuffed and mounted in there tropy room by now.
I've read a few accounts of hunters seeing them. One I read from Manitoba said the hunter killed it in the thick brush, thinking it was a moose. When he got up to the body, he saw it was certainly not a moose and thought he's killed some sort of man and took off, fearing he'd be prosecuted for murder. He never spoke of it until he was an old man. In another, the Roe report, a hunter reports seeing one but declining to shoot because it's appearance and mannerisms were just too human. I've actually read several reports of hunters responding that way. Then there are the reports of hunters shooting one but losing the body (it fell into a river or some such) a la the infamous Ape Canyon incident. Still others report shooting but missing.
To say these things are spirits is just to make and excuse for the lack of evidence.
Agreed.

[Anubis]

I knew a man who was an experienced hunter; having hunted ever since he was a little boy. Both his father and grandfather were avid hunters.. so he knew his way around a woods. He told me that on a hunting trip a few years ago they came across a "bigfoot"... he heard more than one.. but only saw the one.. he described it as stinking worse than a skunk.. taller than a man and hairy... pretty much the standard bigfoot description.. at the time they had two huinting dogs with them.. both ran deeper into the woods.. one yelped once and never came out.. the other dog ran out with it's tail between it's legs..

The hunters didn't shoot the "bigfoot" because they were standing there in awe with their mouths hanging open like a bunch of little kids.. they never shot at it.. because they didn't think to.. and by the time they thought about shooting it.. it had turned around and headed back into the trees. He was embarassed to talk about it.. he said that was the only time in his life he ever froze while holding a gun.. partially because he didn't think to shoot it.. and partly because it was too human for him to pull the trigger.

As for the dog.. it would never set foot in the woods again.. I tried taking him on a walk back into the woods and the dog froze at the tree line trembling and shaking with fear... Now.. I may doubt a story that a person tells me.. but I will never doubt the fear reaction I got out of that dog. Something else... the guy that told me the story isn't the kind to make up something like this.. he never bragged about it.. and he didn't even tell me until I asked what had happened to the missing dog...

[Trithemius]

I voted "maybe." I'm 98% convinced there's no Nessie. I'd write off Bigfoot but for three things.

1. American Indian accounts. They describe an animal that closely resembles an ape in both appearance and behavior. According to the white man's science, there are no apes indigenous to the Americas. So how can the indigenous people so closely describe an animal that isn't supposed to be there and never has been? Maybe science got it wrong.

2. The Patterson/Gimlin film. I honestly don't know if the subject in the film is a real bigfoot or a guy in a suit, but if it's a man in a suit it's probably the most extraordinary hoax ever perpetrated. John Chambers did the costumes for the original Planet of the Apes movies. There was a persistent rumor that he made the suit for the Patterson film. He denied it at his retirement party and said such a suit was beyond his capabilities. If even he didn't have the ability to make such a convincing suit, who the heck did? Remember, the Patterson film was shot in 1967. They didn't have the special effects technology we have today.

3. The track casts. Some casts of footprints show dermal ridges. Fingerprint expert Jim Chillicut of the Conroe, TX police department analyzed them and said the pattern didn't conform to either human feet or the feet of other apes. His analysis convinced him bigfoot is real.

These three factors are not absolute proof. Absolute proof will not come until someone provides a body (or a substantial portion of one). But I think they're enough for us (and science) to seriously investigate the matter. As researcher Rene Dahinden said, "Something is making those tracks and I want to know what it is."

I agree.

[DoktorSick]

I knew a man who was an experienced hunter; having hunted ever since he was a little boy. Both his father and grandfather were avid hunters.. so he knew his way around a woods. He told me that on a hunting trip a few years ago they came across a "bigfoot"... he heard more than one.. but only saw the one.. he described it as stinking worse than a skunk.. taller than a man and hairy... pretty much the standard bigfoot description.. at the time they had two huinting dogs with them.. both ran deeper into the woods.. one yelped once and never came out.. the other dog ran out with it's tail between it's legs..

The hunters didn't shoot the "bigfoot" because they were standing there in awe with their mouths hanging open like a bunch of little kids.. they never shot at it.. because they didn't think to.. and by the time they thought about shooting it.. it had turned around and headed back into the trees. He was embarassed to talk about it.. he said that was the only time in his life he ever froze while holding a gun.. partially because he didn't think to shoot it.. and partly because it was too human for him to pull the trigger.

As for the dog.. it would never set foot in the woods again.. I tried taking him on a walk back into the woods and the dog froze at the tree line trembling and shaking with fear... Now.. I may doubt a story that a person tells me.. but I will never doubt the fear reaction I got out of that dog. Something else... the guy that told me the story isn't the kind to make up something like this.. he never bragged about it.. and he didn't even tell me until I asked what had happened to the missing dog...

Yet another big foot story i find hard to believe.And isn't that convient that they both have guns buy just froze in awe of bigfoot.
Just by accident someone would have shot a and bagged a bigfoot
by now.

[Anubis]

Yet another big foot story i find hard to believe.And isn't that convient that they both have guns buy just froze in awe of bigfoot.
Just by accident someone would have shot a and bagged a bigfoot
by now.
well.. not saying i believed him.. but i know something scared the hell out of that dog.. and we are talking about a dog who had been used for hunting before.. not the sort to suddenly become scared of the woods...
Had the guy been a drinker I would have laughed it off (and maybe thought they shot the other dog by mistake).. but he wasn't a drinker and didn't do drugs.. yeah I know.. people can lie their butts off and make up anything.. but dogs don't normally lie... now did they see a bigfoot?.. I dunno.. i wasn't there... but I would love to know what really did happen to change that dog's personality so much... he wasn't abused.. because he had no problems with his owners or any other people for that matter.. he wasn't gun shy.. cause you could still shoot a gun around him.. all i know is that SOMETHING did happen.. and like I said before .. i would sooner trust a dog than I would a person.

[person of shadow]

I honestly don't know.

[DoktorSick]

well.. not saying i believed him.. but i know something scared the hell out of that dog.. and we are talking about a dog who had been used for hunting before.. not the sort to suddenly become scared of the woods...
Had the guy been a drinker I would have laughed it off (and maybe thought they shot the other dog by mistake).. but he wasn't a drinker and didn't do drugs.. yeah I know.. people can lie their butts off and make up anything.. but dogs don't normally lie... now did they see a bigfoot?.. I dunno.. i wasn't there... but I would love to know what really did happen to change that dog's personality so much... he wasn't abused.. because he had no problems with his owners or any other people for that matter.. he wasn't gun shy.. cause you could still shoot a gun around him.. all i know is that SOMETHING did happen.. and like I said before .. i would sooner trust a dog than I would a person.
I have seen dogs at like when bigger meanier dogs are around.
The dog could have ran on a wolf or cougar.But just because a dog
freaks out doesn't mean there there was a big foot.

[Anubis]

no wolves or cougars in those parts of Delaware.. hey.. i tried to think of everything... But he wasn't the sort to back down from a fight with another dog.. so your guess is as good as mine.. and there wasn't a mark on him.. so I know he didn't tangle with anything...
They had taken him on a hunting trip a few years before that where he got into a scuffle with a porcupine.. ended up with a bunch of quills in his face.. that didn't deter him from going into the woods.. I know for a fact he had messed with a few skunks (cause I was the one they called to bathe him).. didn't deter him either.. they used him for hunting raccoons.. which a big ol male raccoon can put a hurtin on ya.. and that never bothered him.. he has a lot of heart.. so whatever it was scarred him bad enough that he will never hunt again. Like I said.. I don't know if it was a bigfoot.. but whatever it was it made one heck of an impression on him...

edited to add:
i only shared what i was told because the question came up as to why no one ever shoots them.. I even asked him the same question .... so did they see one in the woods?.. I dunno.. I wasn't there.. just relaying what was told to me!
Personally . if I had a gun and one of them killed one of my dogs.. oh yeah.. there would be shots fired! Human looking or not.. NO ONE kills one of my kids and gets away with it.

[IvyWitch]

I think they're both fake. Actually we *know* Nessie is a fake - the guy who made the model and took the picture way back when fessed up.

Bigfoot I'm not 100% sure about. I don't believe that it's real, but it's possible. After all, we did find the giant squid. But, I won't hold my breath.

At least Nessie makes a good tourist attraction.

Nessie's cousin lives in Lake Champlain you know. His name is Champy. Though, all of the champy sightings have been from the back of the Magic Hat brewery, so.... :hehehehe:

[siamesegoth2]

Hehe, im scottish, and Nessie is real!! Poor old girl is just a wee bitty shy , thats all ;).

seriously though, im not sure what to think, people keep going out there to prove and disprove it, who knows maybe one day they'll get their answer.

[Laisrean]

I think they're both fake. Actually we *know* Nessie is a fake - the guy who made the model and took the picture way back when fessed up.

Bigfoot I'm not 100% sure about. I don't believe that it's real, but it's possible. After all, we did find the giant squid. But, I won't hold my breath.

At least Nessie makes a good tourist attraction.

Nessie's cousin lives in Lake Champlain you know. His name is Champy. Though, all of the champy sightings have been from the back of the Magic Hat brewery, so.... :hehehehe:

Well, water horses or Kelbies have been reported being seen since lik 500 AD, iirc. Whoever might have been hoaxing Nessie recently certainly wasn't hoaxing it 1500 years ago.

That said I also don't believe it exists. It may have existed at one time, though.

[Rainlily]

Yes to Big Foot and I'm open minded about the Loch ness monster. I'm not willing to give a definite yes to Nessie but I believe it's possible.
I will say one thing if Big Foot and Nessie exist I hope to the Gods that no scientest ever gets ahold of them, or their existance is ever proven....

[IvyWitch]

Well, water horses or Kelbies have been reported being seen since lik 500 AD, iirc. Whoever might have been hoaxing Nessie recently certainly wasn't hoaxing it 1500 years ago.

That said I also don't believe it exists. It may have existed at one time, though.

Yeah ok, but a Kelbie isn't a 50 foot long sea monster living in a loch.

The pictures of the first Bigfoot footprints are fake too - the son of the guy who made the foot came out and said it was a hoax. Of course that doesn't stop people from beliveing.

[Laisrean]

Yeah ok, but a Kelbie isn't a 50 foot long sea monster living in a loch.

The pictures of the first Bigfoot footprints are fake too - the son of the guy who made the foot came out and said it was a hoax. Of course that doesn't stop people from beliveing.


We don't know exactly what a Kelbie is and water has a way of distorting things. How do we know the Loch ness monster, if it exists, is really 50 ft long? I doubt even the plesiosaurs which this is supposed to be were really that big. But like I said, I don't believe it exists but I am open to the possibility it does.

As for Bigfoot, some hoaxes have been made but does that account for everything? Whenever something pops up like that some pranksters get involved and create hoaxes but there have been footprints which are so detailed thast it has turned forensic scientists who studied them into believers.

I'm talking about footprints which show detailed lines as you would see on a human foot or hand but different. I'm talking about what appears to be on occasion evidence of broken bones in the footprint. And I'm talking about the evidence of hair which is sometimes found embedded in these footprints which has been tested and proven to belong to an unknown species of primate.

So, yeah, there are some kids with giant wooden feet stomping through the woods, but there is also something out there which has got the experts who studied the casts convinced.

[IvyWitch]

Which experts would those be?

[Laisrean]

Which experts would those be?


Jim Chillicut. See post 2 in this thread, courtesy of Valnorran.

And there is also this:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1023_031023_bigfoot.html

"Given the scientific evidence that I have examined, I'm convinced there's a creature out there that is yet to be identified," said Jeff Meldrum, a professor of anatomy and anthropology at Idaho State University in Pocatello.

So you have a fingerprint expert and a professor of anatomy and anthropology who both say the evidence is compelling.

[dragoncrone]

Hehe, im scottish, and Nessie is real!! Poor old girl is just a wee bitty shy , thats all ;).
.

...that we are looking at this from the wrong point of view.
The legends did not begin with the faked photos or the phony footprints. The folktales about these creatures existed long before the 20th century, and were what inspired people to perpetrate their hoaxes.

There are obscure portions of the planet as yet unseen by man; who knows who or what lives there, or for how long?:vanish:

[Shadow Angel]

bumping this thread

[Enlightenment1]

I totally believe in Big Foot. I was watching a documentary on it last night in fact :) That video evidence they've got of it walking through the woods is just awsome. Ok, so I know it's not full-on proof but they were saying it would of taken years to teach a man in a suit to walk the way that thing was walking, and also the muscle mass on it would of been extremly, extremly hard to fake. An amazing hoaxs, if it is one, though I don't think it is.

As for the Lock Ness Monster, don't believe in it. Someone would of had that by now. Maybe years and years ago it was there, but not now.

[Moonlight's Daughter]

I beleive in both, but not necessarily in real time-what I mean by that is simple. I think that these creatures exisist-but on a separate plane of existance-and that sometimes people are able to see them when the veil between worlds is thin, and or they have abilities. (even if they dont know they have them)

So not on this plane, but on other planes of exisitance-and sometimes they overlap (of course you would have to believe there are other planes of existance first)

[Mysterious Willow]

I believe that both are real. People have always said for years that certain things don't exist just because they can't study it. Take the platypus for instance. When it first was discovered it took awhile for people to realize that it was alive and real.

People do that with every new thing that is discovered. If it can't be fully studied then it doesn't exist. Another example, as stated before, is the giant squid. Many people said that there was no way one could still be alive, find enough food, ect. And yet we have one on camera.

For Nessie I heard that she isn't just restricted to the Lock. That Lock Ness has caves and such that leads to who knows where. True people are going out to find them but they could do a lot more than what there doing now. Possible because they don't have the money.

[lightdragon]

I believe that both are real. People have always said for years that certain things don't exist just because they can't study it. Take the platypus for instance. When it first was discovered it took awhile for people to realize that it was alive and real.

People do that with every new thing that is discovered. If it can't be fully studied then it doesn't exist. Another example, as stated before, is the giant squid. Many people said that there was no way one could still be alive, find enough food, ect. And yet we have one on camera.

For Nessie I heard that she isn't just restricted to the Lock. That Lock Ness has caves and such that leads to who knows where. True people are going out to find them but they could do a lot more than what there doing now. Possible because they don't have the money. there were also reports where Nessie hunted on land. Which gives similar beliefs in the Kelpies.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

" 'Boy on white horse' by Theodor Kittelsen.The kelpie is a supernatural shape-shifting water horse from Celtic folklore that is believed to haunt the rivers and lochs of Scotland and Ireland. It generally has grayish black fur, and will appear to be a lost pony, but can be identified by its constantly dripping mane. its skin is like that of a seal but is deathly cold to the touch. In Orkney a similar creature was called the Nuggle, and in Shetland a similar creature was called the Shoopiltee, the Njogel, or the Tangi . It also appears in Scandinavian folklore where in Sweden it is known by the name Bäckahästen, the brook horse. In Norway it is called nøkken, where the horse shape is often used, but is not its true form. Another similar Scottish water horse is the Each uisge. "

[Mysterious Willow]

there were also reports where Nessie hunted on land. Which gives similar beliefs in the Kelpies.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

" 'Boy on white horse' by Theodor Kittelsen.The kelpie is a supernatural shape-shifting water horse from Celtic folklore that is believed to haunt the rivers and lochs of Scotland and Ireland. It generally has grayish black fur, and will appear to be a lost pony, but can be identified by its constantly dripping mane. its skin is like that of a seal but is deathly cold to the touch. In Orkney a similar creature was called the Nuggle, and in Shetland a similar creature was called the Shoopiltee, the Njogel, or the Tangi . It also appears in Scandinavian folklore where in Sweden it is known by the name Bäckahästen, the brook horse. In Norway it is called nøkken, where the horse shape is often used, but is not its true form. Another similar Scottish water horse is the Each uisge. "

Hmm. Very interesting, I've never heard of that. I've heard of her being referred to as a water horse but not about going on land part.

[David19]

I beleive in both, but not necessarily in real time-what I mean by that is simple. I think that these creatures exisist-but on a separate plane of existance-and that sometimes people are able to see them when the veil between worlds is thin, and or they have abilities. (even if they dont know they have them)

So not on this plane, but on other planes of exisitance-and sometimes they overlap (of course you would have to believe there are other planes of existance first)

I agree with you entirely :).

[Autumn Clair]

I can say I believe I saw a Big Foot Creature. Twice in fact.

Once we were heading into town. we live out in the country side and on the drive into town a farm house we have driven by many a times we found something strange going on.
The farmers had shot guns out and were looking up at the top of the far hillside. In the fields

The cows were acting strange as well. Normally they are out grazing but on this day all the cows were crowded down by the fence. We stopped the vehicle and watched as this thing
huge, at least 12 foot tall walked in an up right way on the top of the hill side by a tree. The arms were long and you can't tell me it was a bear because I've seen many a bear and it acted not like a bear at all.

The second time. I was visiting my grandmothers house. She has berry bushes on the property line next to the neighbors. I was picking berries when something moved in the yard next to me. I looked but didn't see anything. I started picking berries again. But then I hard something by a tree closer. It was one of those 8 foot high bushing trees.
I looked over to see the leafs and branch move and then I saw it," Eyes looking back at me and a lot of hair."
I was so scared I took off running as fast as I could and didn't look back, nor did I stop to ask it if it was Big Foot. I ran into the house shaking like you wouldn't believe, scared to death. But when they went out to look, it was gone.

I believe it was a Big Foot Creature.

[IceLupa]

I work on divination sometimes and I've asked these types of questions. Regards to BIGFOOT my magic tools say that these things exist but they come from a different dimension.The LOCH NESS MONSTER is actually a real creature from our own dimension. However, people are looking in the wrong place. It isn't dwelling in the loch. It lives in the North Sea, deep under the ocean and in underwater caverns. This loch ness "monster" is (according to my divination tools) an undiscovered animal, and is a mammal related to the whale or is a type of whale. Yes it has a longish neck and a narrower frame for the caves below the sea. This species finds itself in rivers such as the loch.

[Lady Aeris]

Look Autumn!! IceLupa has your Avi. that was trippy- haha (maybe i should get some rest)

[IceLupa]

It's like turning up at a party wearing the same dress as another.
:lol:

[dragoncrone]

Just by accident someone would have shot a and bagged a bigfoot
by now.

...where cows tremble and quake at the coming of hunting season!:lol::T8O:giggle:

[Akkadian]

I fortunately live in Scotland... Naturally, being a Scot - I am inclined to support the Nessie tourism; 1,000s of tourists flock to Loch Ness in the unlikely hope of spotting the Monster.
However, in the summer of 1987 I was in a roadside lay by on the north shore of Loch Ness. There were some Japanese tourists with their Nikon (of course!) cameras all taking pictures exitedly across the loch. I had my binoculars and looked to see 'something'. I don't know what I'd say it was - but the water flow was with the westerly wind - so it gave the appearance that the loch was 'flowing west' (in reality it is just the surface water due to the wind).
There were 5 - 6 dark triangular lumps sticking out of the water heading in a straight line, one behind the other going east - up the loch and they were significant as to create a wake behind them.
There were no boats in the area at all, it was perhaps a mile away from me. It could have been 5 - 6 seals all swimming in a straight line on the surface of a freshwater loch, 16 miles from the sea (after they'd navigated up the river Ness , through the city of Inverness, over weirs and the like)... It could have been 5 -6 very large fish such as Sturgeon (which do come into our lochs occasionally - perhaps 1 - 2 are caught by fishermen every 10 yrs or so)...

I don't know what I saw - and that was good enough for me...

A.

[lightdragon]

could you make out the color?