A thirst for knowledge...

[Celtic_Angel]

Hello to all!!! I want to know everything and anything to do with Druids and their faith. I know that that is a very broad topic, but...

[Twig]

Welcome Dear Seeker! I saw your other posts and I'm happy you've chosen to research druidry first. This is the best first place I send anyone who wants in depth info.
www.fatheroak.com/
Cabe has put together the most unbiased page that I've found.

If I might ask, what brought you to choose the druid path first?:confused: Perhaps together we can answer all these questions that are cropping up.:D That's what all of us are here for my friend. To help you in your search for YOU.

May the One and Andrasta guide you in your search!

Peace,
Twig :elf:

[Mairwen]

There's only a couple of things "wrong" that I see with his site ~ and I could be wrong, I was only browsing, not reading-reading. One was that I saw the "Pagan Rede" in the list of terms. *shudder* That's only the Wiccan Rede with a different name. Two, he also lists the Threefold Law ~ which is also Wiccan. So, I'm a bit wary here of this person and this person's page ...

[ELM]

I haven't really looked at the sight yet, but the rule of three is a very Celtic rule. The Celts were obsessed with the number three and so a three fold law in druidry and other Celtic paths is in fact fitting. Wicca is a relatively modern design on an older path and it's sources come from many places so it can not be too hard to understand that there will be some cross over between paths.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Mairwen
There's only a couple of things "wrong" that I see with his site ~ and I could be wrong, I was only browsing, not reading-reading. One was that I saw the "Pagan Rede" in the list of terms. *shudder* That's only the Wiccan Rede with a different name. Two, he also lists the Threefold Law ~ which is also Wiccan. So, I'm a bit wary here of this person and this person's page ...


I went and looked after seeing this :D--he does have them in his list but he defines them in terms of pagan or witchcraft, not druidism.

This seems to be a good basic site, there even are short articles here about the differences between wicca and druidism, etc....my only real quarrel with it is that he lists Douglas Monroe's books here. He himself does call the 21 Lessons of Merlyn a good 'fictional' read, but I have real problems with this author.

Regards,

maggie

[ELM]

Me to Maggie, Monroe is well, pants! For example he said that female druids were called dryads, when we all know that dryads are entities that protect oak trees. That's just one example of why I think Monroe is pants.
But anyway, I would suggest that reading W.B Yeats work is a good way to get a feel for druidry. There's a book called "The Celtic Twilight", that although it does not offer facts or tables of correspondence etc, it is very inspirational and provokes the imagination and atmosphere.

Well, that's just how I find my journey. Everyone must find there own way.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by ELM
Me to Maggie, Monroe is well, pants! For example he said that female druids were called dryads, when we all know that dryads are entities that protect oak trees. That's just one example of why I think Monroe is pants.
But anyway, I would suggest that reading W.B Yeats work is a good way to get a feel for druidry. There's a book called "The Celtic Twilight", that although it does not offer facts or tables of correspondence etc, it is very inspirational and provokes the imagination and atmosphere.

Well, that's just how I find my journey. Everyone must find there own way.

Several of his sources are known forgeries, like the Book of Pherylt (sp?). I just don't like him--did you know druids were vegetarians? :D

I got the Celtic Twilight a couple of years ago, and have re-read it several times, it's a wonderful book......

Regards,

Maggie

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by ELM
Me to Maggie, Monroe is well, pants! For example he said that female druids were called dryads, when we all know that dryads are entities that protect oak trees.


Didn't he also say that women aren't meant and have never been meant to practice Druidry? Kinda like being on the bottom rung of the totem pole? :(

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Mairwen


Didn't he also say that women aren't meant and have never been meant to practice Druidry? Kinda like being on the bottom rung of the totem pole? :(

Yes, among a lot of other drivel--one scholar type I know listed more than twenty errors of fact in the first few chapters, he didn't bother going on.

Regards,

Maggie

[ELM]

With regard to women never having been druids, well, I don't know about that in Ireland there is a word ban-drui meaning woman druid, and many people think this evidence that women were sometimes druids. However it is my feeling that druids are meant to represent the fatherhood in Celtic society and that Witches represent the motherhood. This is not like being the "bottom rung of the totem pole". It is to do with the Celts respecting the difference between men and women, their different energy and different sources of power. Different but equally valid. So in this respect I would have to meet Monroe half way, there were very few female druids, but witches who were Priestesses would have held equal sway. Little attention is paid to Celtic witchcraft in modern books, perhaps this is because in a patriarchal society men could get away with practicing old male culture more easily then women could with practicing old female culture. And so the male path of the Celts has been left a little more in tact for us. But if you look hard enough you will find it.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Maggie
Yes, among a lot of other drivel--one scholar type I know listed more than twenty errors of fact in the first few chapters, he didn't bother going on. Regards,
Maggie

Oh really? *eyebrows raised in interest* I had thought so, too. Is this documented? Is there a way to get a copy??

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Mairwen


Oh really? *eyebrows raised in interest* I had thought so, too. Is this documented? Is there a way to get a copy??

I'll see if I can find it again. In the meantime, Iolo Morganwg's Druid's Cabala, allegedly drived from a 16th century manuscript, is entirely his invention, among many others. Monroe relies heavily on his works which makes them unreliable from the start. Ellis's __The Druids__ goes into the 18th century revivalist Druid groups in detail.

Regards,

Maggie

[Celtic_Angel]

Hi Twig,

The reason I picked Duidry...honestly I'm not to sure. :( Being as sheltered as I have within the Church, I know nothing about the different pagan faiths. Other than what I feel deep down anyways.

I have a strong connection with plants, animals, and the ground. I'm not sure what it is, but when it comes to the ground (& rocks) and plants it's like there is this pulse that comes alive under my fingertips... When it comes to animals...that's a long story...

Being Irish and Scottish in blood, :D I have an obsession with the Celtic people of long ago. There is some other driving force, but I cannot name it...

I do not know if I have succeeded in answering any questions you might have, but if you can give me ANY kind of information, it will be must appreciated. I will check out the website you have suggested. Thank you!

Blessings!!!
Erin

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Mairwen


Oh really? *eyebrows raised in interest* I had thought so, too. Is this documented? Is there a way to get a copy??

Okay, I've got them now--my cyberattic is getting reaalllllllll crowded....

One is at

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~bmyers/pagan/21Lessons.html

For some reason the URL above keeps coming out as paga..... in the final version--it should read pagan/21Lessons


A shorter one is at
http://www.cyberwitch.com/wychwood/Library/whenIsACeltNotACelt.htm

The most basic thing is that Monroe's books draw heavily on known forgeries by Iolo Morganwg, aka Edward Williams--these include the Book of Pheryllt and his Barddas....

Regards,

Maggie

PS--even some academic types will say that Monroe's books could be good for inspiration--but be aware that Monroe's history is fictional.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Maggie
paga..... in the final version--it should read pagan/21Lessons

It worked just find ... The reviewer is right in saying that his phonetic breakdowns of Welsh is impossible. I'm new to the language (about 18 months "study"), but going back over the books, I've found some tongue twisters. I'm sure a Welshman would get a hoot out of some of them. Maybe.

I hasten to add the both Brighid and Lugh are Deities of light and fire, neither is particularly associated with darkness or passivity or the moon etc

This I must disagree with. At least for our Tradition (I've not read it elsewhere), Lugh is the Moon and he/his aspects "rule" the Dark half/Moon half of the year (Litha to Yule).

A shorter one is at http://www.cyberwitch.com/wychwood/Library/whenIsACeltNotACelt.htm

If pieces such as "It's my firm intention in a barroom to die" are to be considered as hymns to the Goddess, then all country music must be pagan.

LMAO! How true!! :D

certain styles of format, typography and illustration have been utilized at times that may appear as awkward or disruptive to the smooth flow of narrative but which are, in actuality, psychological--nearly 'subliminal'--sign posts, that act to alert the Unconscious Mind to the Magical Lesson within the text.

My first teacher wrote the same way (as Monroe). Sometimes reading his stuff is enough to give you a headache. I've taken most of what I have, re-typed it, and reformatted it, making it much, much easier to digest. Matter of fact, my HP and I were discussing one night how much alike said teacher and Monroe favor; so much so, that my HP said, "That's [him] with hair." ;)

Monroe portrays the Druids as an all-male New Age enclave of white bearded wizards in silly robes, separated from those around them by their "magickal specialness.".

We call this Merlin Syndrome. My first teacher has it. It happens. I've known several men with this same ... uh ... er ... Ego-Problem. Matter of fact, teach is so special now that he's living alone with 4 cats in the middle of Central Kentucky. :D

[Maggie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mairwen
[B]

[b]

This I must disagree with. At least for our Tradition (I've not read it elsewhere), Lugh is the Moon and he/his aspects "rule" the Dark half/Moon half of the year (Litha to Yule).

[b]

Hehe. The key phrase here is 'our Tradition'--that's a point I've tried to convey elsewhere. These days 'druid' is stretching a bit in meaning. What I've been taught is the same as the reviewer--but then I'm a member of ADF.

Regards,

Maggie

[Mairwen]

Right. That's why, when I post someting, I try to remember to put "we" or "our trad" in there somewhere and not say, for example, Wiccans/Druids/Celts/etc and so forth do and say so and so. Because they all don't. :D If we/they did, things would get old and boring pretty quick and message boards like this one wouldn't exist or would become passé. :D

[Celtic_Angel]

I've done some research on modern Druids and ancient Druids alike and I've found that a lot of how I live my life fits in well with the Druid way of life. This realization hash been extremely disturbing and upsetting for me.

I had simply expected to find nothing that would point to a different way of life for me than that which I lead. I'm a Catholic and I've spent many nights crying out of distress because the word 'Catholic' hasn't seemed to be good enough for me. It fits some of my general beliefs, but I can never be the pious, subservient, evangelist, Catholic, girl that I've longed to be. God has chosen a different life for me and I'm afraid of that life. Don't get me wrong, I still love my religion and will not be changing it. I will die proudly a Catholic, but there is something else out there for me. This unquenchable thirst to find the missing part of me. It's not my soul mate that I am looking for, I'll find him when God sees fit. It is explanation to memories that haunt my days and dreams at night that come true by day that I seek. It is not even in just dreams, but with certain people and places I know things that I should not...things that come true all too often. Then there are those people I meet, who's face I have never seen before, that I have known for a very long time though I know not where from. There are things I believe in without out reson or proof, but with a simple faith that seems to have slways been there. I want answers, yet I am a bit afraid of them too. Perhaps I am mad or perhaps the fantasies I lived as a child still linger in my mind, yet those answers don't seem to fit.

So I continue to search and since the Druid way of life seems to be the most haunting as of late, that is where I intend to start. Is there any kind of training to be gone through to learn the Druid life? Would I be accepted? I wish to learn more than what I have found in websites. Is there a druid here who lives in San Diego? I would like to be able to study under someone who knows and practices the Druid path. I would be deeply honored. Thank you all.

C_A

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by ELM
I haven't really looked at the sight yet, but the rule of three is a very Celtic rule. The Celts were obsessed with the number three and so a three fold law in druidry and other Celtic paths is in fact fitting. Wicca is a relatively modern design on an older path and it's sources come from many places so it can not be too hard to understand that there will be some cross over between paths.

Well, it may be a very Celtic rule, but that doesn't mean that it applies to all Pagan pathways ~ it doesn't. I come from a very long line of Welsh Pagans (fam-trad), and nowhere in our Tradition do we have such a rule. It's wrong to say that such a thing applies across the board, per se, because it doesn't. And like 7-Up, never has, never will.

[Mairwen]

Hey C_A! You go!!! I wish you the best on your Journey!

[Celtic_Angel]

Thank you Mairwen!!!! :D I hope that I may find someone who is willing to teach me the ways and thoughts of the Druids, but my search has been in vain so far.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Celtic_Angel
Thank you Mairwen!!!! :D I hope that I may find someone who is willing to teach me the ways and thoughts of the Druids, but my search has been in vain so far.

I know you said you wanted more than websites, but one to try is the ADF one (adf.org) because I know they have groups in California that you could perhaps meet with and actually talk to people about it.

One problem in trying to decide what I could post is that I'm not sure what 'flavor' of druidry you might be interested in. Perhaps we could talk a bit more?

Regards,

Maggie

[Celtic_Angel]

Thank you Maggie. I will indeed look into that website.

Since there is still so much that I do not know about Druids, perhaps I am even looking in the wrong place, but I have to start somewhere.

I wish to learn how to reach further into myself and make sense of all the chaos running around in my head. I wish to learn different methods of taking the connection that I have with the earth and expanding upon that and making it grow. I am in search of knowledge that I can use to better myself. The biggest mystery that I want to tackle is myself.

I don't know if that tells you anything at all Maggie. It sure doesn't tell me much! :rolleyes: I don't know anything about different 'flavors' of druidry. There is so much that I don't know.

Celtic_Angel

[widukind]

Hi ! :D

Thanks for the URLs. Although the first one didn't work on my computer, the second one was very educational and funny at times, when you read about how ignorant people can be. I thought everyone knew potatoes weren't native to Ireland?

Brightest Blessings!

Widukind

[Maggie]

Originally posted by widukind
Hi ! :D

Thanks for the URLs. Although the first one didn't work on my computer, the second one was very educational and funny at times, when you read about how ignorant people can be. I thought everyone knew potatoes weren't native to Ireland?

Brightest Blessings!

Widukind

Potatoes have become so tightly associated with Ireland that no, an awful lot of people don't know that it's not native to Ireland!

imbas.org is another site, this one is celtic reconstructionist type, very academic.....both places have good reading lists though.

Regards,

Maggie

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Celtic_Angel
Thank you Maggie. I will indeed look into that website.


I don't know if that tells you anything at all Maggie. It sure doesn't tell me much! :rolleyes: I don't know anything about different 'flavors' of druidry. There is so much that I don't know.

Celtic_Angel

Um......as far as 'flavors' go, today druidry runs the gamut from strict celtic reconstructionist to something that might use a few 'key phrases' to make it sound druid. My own personal preferences lean toward the more academic types, so that I don't know as much about types further down the continuum, so to speak. I make no judgement about any of them, I make my choice for myself.

One book you might like is __The Apple Branch__ by Alexei Kondratiev--it's sorta like a manual for incorporating celtic ritual into today's life. He's somewhat opinionated, but he's got some good stuff in that book.

www. neopagan.net/

This is Isaac Bonewits's homepage, he's got lots of information and links to other druid groups on his page. Something more to look at!

Regards,

Maggie