Gardnerian wiccans and Robert Cochrane

[David19]

Something i read recently was that Robert Cochrane was the one who first called Gardnerian wiccans 'Gardnerian', but he used it as a insult to them and didn't see them as 'real' witches, does anyone know if this is true?, also i've heard that, i think it might have been Cochrane or other witches, but that the term fluffy bunny was first applied to Gardnerian wiccans (which is a bit ironic as i think i've heard Gardnerian's view other wiccans as fluff bunnies), is this true?

Does anyone know, exactly why Cochrane didn't like Gardnerian wiccans.

Also, something, i just remembered, is i read on a few sites (and i think in book) that Gardnerian wicca in Britain is completly different to Gardnerian wicca in the U.S. (and that British Gardnerian's don't even recognise 'ecclectic and solitary wiccans' as 'real' but U.S. ones too), does anyone know if this is true, are there any British Gardnerian's here, do U.S. and British Gardnerians get on with each other?

Thanks.

[Ben Gruagach]

I have read in a number of places that Robert Cochrane was the person who started using the term "Gardnerian" and that he meant the term as an insult -- meaning that they were merely followers of Gardner and not real witches.

Witch wars, complete with the whole fuss over who is a "real witch" and who is just a pretender, have been around pretty much right from the time Gardner started promoting Wicca. Personally I think a lot of the problem stems from the claim that witchcraft was a single uniform universal magickal system or religion. If that is accepted as true, then it means when we're confronted with different ways of doing witchcraft only one of them can be the "real" one and the other would have to be false. (I don't believe that there ever was a single uniform universal magickal system or religion known as witchcraft. I think there could have been a number of different things all called witchcraft... which means that there is no One True Way of witchcraft.)

Robert Cochrane was very vocal in speaking out against Gardner and anyone else he thought was not practicing "real witchcraft." He wrote letters to various Pagan magazines at the time, including the influential Pentagram magazine, which meant his ideas were widely read.

These sorts of witch wars were also common during pre-Gardnerian times. It was common for people who worked as cunning-folk to insist that their competition (the other cunning-folk in the area, or in the next town over) were "evil witches" who were the source of the evil hexes that afflicted people. Of course when everyone is accusing everyone else of being an "evil witch" it sort of makes you wonder who to believe.

Doreen Valiente worked with Gerald Gardner during the 1950s and then with Robert Cochrane in the 1960s. She's written about her experiences with both in her excellent book "The Rebirth of Witchcraft." I highly recommend it for a solid grounding in the history of Wicca and related practices.

[Ben Gruagach]

Oh, I should mention too that Robert Cochrane claimed he came from a pre-Gardnerian witchcraft tradition but like so many people who claimed that was never able to prove it. He appeared on the witchcraft scene in the 1960s, well after Gardner had his start, so Cochrane could have easily have just made up his own stuff and then was just trying to pass it off as "more authentic" than the competition.

[lightdragon]

Didn`t Cochrane claim he came from one of the nine covens of George Pickingdill ?

[Ben Gruagach]

Didn`t Cochrane claim he came from one of the nine covens of George Pickingdill ?

I don't remember reading anything about that, but I guess he could have said that at some point.

[David19]

I've heard that Doreen Valiente's powers increased dramatically, when she worked with Cochrane and his 'primal witchcraft', does anyone know if this is true?.

[Elderbush]

What kind of powers are you talking about, David? I've heard this said before on several websites but have always wondered what it is that people think it means.

[lightdragon]

I don't remember reading anything about that, but I guess he could have said that at some point.
Misread it. sorry.

[David19]

What kind of powers are you talking about, David? I've heard this said before on several websites but have always wondered what it is that people think it means.

I'm not sure, but i'm guessing just her magic increased, i don't how they increased, but don't Gardnerian's (and i think most traditions) keep their magic secret so who really knows what type of magic Cochrane practiced and how Doreen Vialiente's magic was affected.

Although, Cochrane's witchcraft probably is powerful, is Vialiente said her powers increased.

Would anyone know what 'primal witchcraft' is, since that's how Vialiente decribed Cochrane's witchcraft, i think.

[Ben Gruagach]

I'm not sure, but i'm guessing just her magic increased, i don't how they increased, but don't Gardnerian's (and i think most traditions) keep their magic secret so who really knows what type of magic Cochrane practiced and how Doreen Valiente's magic was affected.

Although, Cochrane's witchcraft probably is powerful, is Vialiente said her powers increased.

Would anyone know what 'primal witchcraft' is, since that's how Vialiente decribed Cochrane's witchcraft, i think.

When Doreen talked about Cochrane's witchcraft being more primal and effective I believe she was talking about the emphasis Cochrane put on getting out of the living room and into nature. Gardner's groups routinely met indoors (since they practiced skyclad, it makes more sense to practice indoors) while Cochrane's group routinely performed their rituals at outdoor locations or in natural caves.

Cochrane's methods were also more shamanic and spontaneous in nature than Gardner's.

I'm not sure if the claim that Doreen's "powers" increased when she worked with Cochrane is accurate -- I believe she was talking more about finding Cochrane's system felt more in touch with the magick of the land and what she imagined pre-Christian witchcraft to have been like. Saying that the magick seemed more effective is not quite the same thing as claiming someone's magickal "powers" increased.