Kemetic gods and possesion

[David19]

I couldn't really think of a better title, but i was reading on a Kemetic site (i can't remember which one, i'll try and find it for you though), that the Kemetic religion has a lot in common with some other African religions such as Vodou and others in that sometimes possesion by the gods occurs, is this true and if it is, have you ever experienced it and what was it like.

Also, i've heard that in the ancient Kemetic religion (and modern), the worshippers would prepare 'houses' for the gods on this plane/realm where they could enter, like statues and things (i was reading on one Kemetic site, that, apparantly, sometimes, the statues can move a bit, is this true?), if it is, do you prepare 'houses' for them for the gods to reside in and have you seen them, supernaturally, move or what or can you sense the presence of the gods (also, how do you prepare a 'house' for them?).

Thanks, and hope that wasn't too many questions, but i'm curious about it :).

[coyoger]

It is my understanding that in the past, yes in a way the priests did indeed become possessed. But not in the Voodoo fashion. That is to say, the Pharaoh was considered a living representation of the God Ra. Everything he said and did was in his God's name. And as such it was his duty to perform certain tasks as the God in temples. But as the cities grew he assigned priests who did this form him.

Also some would call forth the God/ Goddess to perform an earthly function. For instance, the embalmers when preparing a body would put on a mask of Anpu (Anubis) to become the God in order to prepare the body correctly. And such.

As for modern day practices, people are always calling them forth. And sometimes it works depending on what you are asking for. But for the most part, no it isn't the same as in Voodoo.

As to houses, well I have an altar with statues, and they are always welcome, but I have never seen them move. I hadn't heard of such a thing as making them a house. Just a special place in your own home to where offerings are made and communication is done. That is not to say that it doesn't happen. But it one of mine moved I would chalk it up to human involvement or earth movement. Cuz when a god/goddess shows themselves you are gonna know it. And not by something as small as a movement of a statue a quarter of an inch.

IMO

[Erincelt]

In actuality, this is accurate, insofar as I know. What I can guarantee I know is that within the context of Kemetic Orthodoxy, at least, we do practice a form of ritual posession by the Names, known simply as Saq ("appearance"). Attending a Saq is a unique and difficult to describe experience, considered so sacred that no records are ever kept of what was done or said, besides the testimonies of those who were present. It is also a very taxing and potentially dangerous process for the priest acting as host to the Name. Stringent health concerns are paramount.

As to "houses" for the Names, it is common (again, within KO) for one to prepare the icons in one's shrine to work this way. For example, in my bedroom is an octagonal cabinet holding an icon of Yinepu-Wepwawet, which has been blessed by four days in the sun, and is washed with natron water every 30 days, and has blessings and prayers to Yinepu spoken over it at least once every 10 days, all with this precise intent: to invite Yinepu to "house" Himself within it. Of course its not as though He doesn't have countless other "homes" out there, and its likely that at any given moment that it seems to be resided in, that it may well be a netjeri of Him, and not "The Man" Himself.

The status has not, however, ever physically moved, although the "aura" of it is perceptibly different. You can look upon it, and intellectually know its just a statue, but something about the face will hold your gaze and inject with the sense of a very large, very old presence.

[David19]

Do you know if the class that starts on Kemetic Orthodox soon, teaches you how to make a 'house' for the gods?.

Thanks.

[Erincelt]

Not exactly. What it does teach, is how to prepare a Kemetic Orthodox shrine and perform the shrine rite (Senut). The icons you purify and use in your shrine, will of their own accord (so to speak) become prepared and blessed houses for the Names. The other things I do -- washing with natron, saying blessings over them -- are just things one can do to keep their shrine guaranteed pure. Note that purity in the KO sense has much to do with simply keeping something clean, and keeping it set aside for sacred purposes. There's a little more, but the class will go over that.
:)

[instinct]

If I remember rightly, your shrine to your gods is considered Their home in your home. It's were you go to spend time with them, share your offerings with them, pray/talk to them..

With my statues it's definitely in the eyes too.. my Bast statue has kitty-smiled at me a couple times. you know how cats smile.. their eyes squint up happily. ye. :smile:

and like Erincelt said, we do practice Saq, full ritual possession, in Kemetic Orthodoxy. It's really really awesome to experience. to be able to talk to your gods "face to face" without all the mental racket in the background. I love my gods. they're so awesome.

[David19]

about Saq, is that only something that's done in Kemetic Orhtodox ceremonies/rituals, or can individual practicioners learn to do it, also is it the same as possession in Vodou, where the Loa 'possesses' or 'horses' a person (or sometimes, i think, several people at once).

Is it something that the class teaches you, or again is it something that is only done with experienced practicioners, in rituals/ceremonies?.

[Zephyrstorm]

*pokes head out of cave*

Since you don't remember anything that happened to you in Saq, why would you pursue it on an individual basis? *Shrug*
In most situations, possession shares certain traits, irregardless of the specific tradition it is found in. The person trained for the ritual (and in most societies there is a specific type of training involved) is possessed, behaves as a specific being, likes different substances than the mortal being ridden, and the mortal does not remember anything afterward - in most verified cases.

The rituals are dangerous, requiring people there to keep you safe. The specific God demonstrates specific qualities and preferences - voice tone, inflections, body language - that are uniform despite having different hosts.

In Kemetic Orthodoxy, the Priests do Saq, and the rest of us have the honor of interacting with the Gods.

(Writing a paper on the topic of possession and Kemetic Orthodoxy - part of the reason I haven't been around as much. Hope everyone's doing alrighty.)

[David19]

I'd thought i'd bump this thread up, i've just found the site i read about gods inhabiting shrines and things, it's here (http://www.inkemetic.org/Library/index2.htm), on the International Network of Kemetic's (http://www.inkemetic.org/index.htm), and here's a quote from the article:

One’s sensitivity to the subtle forces of nature is made more acute through this procedure. At this point the statue becomes the focal point of concentration and the spiritual essence of the Neter, its life energy or ‘Ka’ as it was called in Ancient Egypt, flows through the effigy. On numerous occasions the statue has appeared to come to life, even to the point of seeming to move its eyes, or hands. Frequently we have seen the gold layer covering the figure appear to change to a skin tone, with a definite sense that the statue is in fact alive!

[amunakht]

The possesion rituals, assuming the godform, can be dangerous only in certain cases but you generally do not need any assistance. It is only when invoking a more malevolent god such as Set when assitance and great precautions should be taken. If you gain experience you can even try delivering an oracle, just let anything that flows through your head out, say it even if it sounds peculiar. This is an opportunity for the god to predict the future and to give you advice. Be wary however, as sometimes the stories come out distorted with the "transmission" but this is NOT the certain neters fault it is YOURS because your mind still being there in your body along with the gods mind corrupts the message. With practice this can be nearly eliminated though. Good luck trying this.

[sonofthemummy]

"Also, i've heard that in the ancient Kemetic religion (and modern), the worshippers would prepare 'houses' for the gods on this plane/realm where they could enter, like statues and things (i was reading on one Kemetic site, that, apparantly, sometimes, the statues can move a bit, is this true?), if it is, do you prepare 'houses' for them for the gods to reside in and have you seen them, supernaturally, move or what or can you sense the presence of the gods (also, how do you prepare a 'house' for them?)."

From the physical record, we know that the gods had ceremonial houses and ritual servants for centuries before the political unification of the North and South, and centuries after the last native dynasty had fallen. Egypt's priesthood was a nepotistic meritocracy. If a question arose as to the legitimacy or competence of a priest, the king might have to mediate, if the priestly clans could not resolve such issues without a dispute. Each state-sponsored temple showed him as the first choice for celebrant in the rites. A visit from the Pharaoh was like a visit to a church from the Pope. Sometimes priests and initiates kept elaborate votive shrines in their own homes at which to honor the deities.

Funding for the upkeep of the temples continued under the auspices of the Roman authorities, but I would never call Caligula a Pharaoh, though the Ptolemies were often celebrated for their piety and spiritual cogence. But, during times when central authority could not support the temples, sometimes the priests were on their own. Petosiris, high priest of Thoth at Hermopolis Magna, had to refurbish the temple from his own pocket. His life in priestly office saw the national government change hands several times. Yet, the worship of the god and conduct of sacred activities had to continue, and did.

I have seen a statue of a falcon with a mechanized mouth that evidently was used in the presentation of oracles, literally with priests pulling the strings. But, the gods would often be carried in their boats on parade through the towns, answering questions from the faithful as their priestly carriers could either feel the weight of a forward or backward list of the barque, indicating the response of the god to the question, and affording the onlookers a visible response.

Sometimes, the king would show special support for certain deities. Hatshepsut gave a big raise, at one point, to the temple of Thoth. Akhenaten was one of the few kings who ever intervened directly in the affairs of the sacred activities. Ramesses II closed down the temples to Aten. Ramesses IV is the only Pharaoh known to have educated himself in theology. And, this was probably because his predecessor was attacked by an ungrateful court with black magic. But, the Pharoh was a spiritualized and purified statesman. Amasis and Diodorus are quoted as describing the king's life as very pure and austere, filled with religious duties.

At times, Bubastis, Sais, Thebes, Memphis, and other cities became the seat of central authority. At those times, the gods of those towns could overshadow Ra as the chief god. Among the people, Osiris was often more carefully venerated. Yet, Ma'at was always upheld as a symbol of the honesty, fairness, and respect that the gods lived by and that men should esteem.