PDA

View Full Version : 'The war is illegal. I can't pay for a government killing machine'



Laisrean
April 7th, 2006, 03:56 PM
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article356034.ece


A man has vowed to go to prison rather than pay taxes which he believes would fund a "blatantly illegal war" in Iraq.

Robin Brookes, 52, appeared at Swindon County Court for refusing to pay a 580 income tax bill. Describing an imminent seizure of his goods as "blood money", the doll's house designer, from Market Lavington in Wiltshire, said: "I don't want to break the law, and I want to contribute to education and health, the law and the police force, but I cannot pay for a government's killing machine.

A modern day Henry David Thoreau. :cheers:

DragonsChest
April 7th, 2006, 03:57 PM
I kinda like how he's thinking..... but then, I think taxes are evil in the first place. _inabox_

WokeUpDead
April 7th, 2006, 05:00 PM
Well if you could pick and choose which taxes you paid nobody would ever pay any taxes and then they'd be complaining that they don't get any services.

Xirian
April 7th, 2006, 06:31 PM
I think it's good that he's standing up for what he believes in. Maybe if more people thought that way, we wouldn't be involved in this war in the first place, because there would be no funding for it. But then again, there might not be any funding for other things that we are accoustomed to either. I guess it all depends on what is most important to you and what is best for you and your family.

Little Billy
April 7th, 2006, 06:57 PM
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article356034.ece



A modern day Henry David Thoreau. :cheers:


True dat.

Little Billy
April 7th, 2006, 06:57 PM
I kinda like how he's thinking..... but then, I think taxes are evil in the first place. _inabox_


I feel the same way about my credit card bill.

Hangatyr 13
April 7th, 2006, 10:18 PM
I can see why he doesn't like paying his taxes. They'd also pay for the prison he'll be going to.:hehehehe:

Jenne
April 7th, 2006, 10:25 PM
I can see why he doesn't like paying his taxes. They'd also pay for the prison he'll be going to.:hehehehe:

I would surely laugh at this, but it's not funny.

Hangatyr 13
April 7th, 2006, 10:58 PM
I would surely laugh at this, but it's not funny.Well, I think it is. My taxes go to plenty of things I don't want them funding, but I pay them anyway, and I follow the law. That's how our society works. It's all about compromise. This guy doesn't want to pull his own weight? Fine, lock him in a hole.

Hangatyr 13
April 7th, 2006, 11:06 PM
Well if you could pick and choose which taxes you paid nobody would ever pay any taxes and then they'd be complaining that they don't get any services.Oh my gods... I actually agree with WokeUpDead.

Little Billy
April 7th, 2006, 11:24 PM
Well, I think it is. My taxes go to plenty of things I don't want them funding, but I pay them anyway, and I follow the law. That's how our society works. It's all about compromise. This guy doesn't want to pull his own weight? Fine, lock him in a hole.

Absolutely.

Why they didn't hang Henry David Thoreau is completely beyond me.

Hangatyr 13
April 8th, 2006, 12:19 AM
Absolutely.

Why they didn't hang Henry David Thoreau is completely beyond me.Oh well, that's one less Sacco and Vensetti, I suppose.

Little Billy
April 8th, 2006, 12:20 AM
Oh well, that's one less Sacco and Vensetti, I suppose.

Um, yeah. Those guys were just like Thoreau. :lol:

Hangatyr 13
April 8th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Close enough for my tastes.

Little Billy
April 8th, 2006, 12:31 AM
Close enough for my tastes.

:yayah:

Okay, moving right along...

Cain
April 8th, 2006, 07:24 AM
Hah, whats his secret? Almost everyone I know gets their taxes automatically deducted from their earnings. I have to apply to get my money back when the Government taxes me illegaly (because of my student status), giving them a nice bit of interest which I never see.

Temptation
April 8th, 2006, 07:27 AM
Hah, whats his secret? Almost everyone I know gets their taxes automatically deducted from their earnings. I have to apply to get my money back when the Government taxes me illegaly (because of my student status), giving them a nice bit of interest which I never see.

My guess is, he's probably self-employed? :whatmewor

pawnman
April 8th, 2006, 07:51 AM
Well, I think it is. My taxes go to plenty of things I don't want them funding, but I pay them anyway, and I follow the law. That's how our society works. It's all about compromise. This guy doesn't want to pull his own weight? Fine, lock him in a hole.

That's how I feel about it. There are plenty of programs I don't agree with, but my taxes pay for them anyway.

pawnman
April 8th, 2006, 07:52 AM
Absolutely.

Why they didn't hang Henry David Thoreau is completely beyond me.

He had rich friends that bailed him out. He wasn't nearly as self-sufficient as people make him out to be....one of his upper-class buddies owned Walden Pond. It was basically camping in his friend's back yard, complete with meals delivered out there by the water.

Cain
April 8th, 2006, 08:01 AM
My guess is, he's probably self-employed? :whatmewor

This is a distinct possibility. Perhaps I should try that. Beats having to claim my money back, I'm certain.

Little Billy
April 9th, 2006, 10:14 AM
He had rich friends that bailed him out.

He wasn't nearly as self-sufficient as people make him out to be....one of his upper-class buddies owned Walden Pond. It was basically camping in his friend's back yard, complete with meals delivered out there by the water.

1. Actually, his middle-class aunt payed his poll tax, which pissed him off to no end.

2. Yep. Walden was garbage. On Civil Disobedience, on the other hand, was a masterpiece. If he was alive today, they'd have him killed.

Laisrean
April 9th, 2006, 03:48 PM
1. Actually, his middle-class aunt payed his poll tax, which pissed him off to no end.

2. Yep. Walden was garbage. On Civil Disobedience, on the other hand, was a masterpiece. If he was alive today, they'd have him killed.

Thoreau's "On Civil Disobedience" inspired Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr., among others. Yet that isn't taught in public schools, which is a shame because it may go on to inspire more people.

Little Billy
April 9th, 2006, 03:53 PM
Thoreau's "On Civil Disobedience" inspired Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr., among others. Yet that isn't taught in public schools, which is a shame because it may go on to inspire more people.

Would YOU allow it to be taught in schools, if YOU were in charge?

I wouldn't.

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 05:45 PM
2. Yep. Walden was garbage. On Civil Disobedience, on the other hand, was a masterpiece. If he was alive today, they'd have him killed.
Gotta disagree with you about Walden, LB. I think it's an amazing piece of work. What makes you think of it as garbage?

Obviously, we're in total agreement about Civil Disobedience.

pawnman
April 9th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Gotta disagree with you about Walden, LB. I think it's an amazing piece of work. What makes you think of it as garbage?

Obviously, we're in total agreement about Civil Disobedience.

Because it was largely made up. Like going camping in your back yard and writing about living in the wilderness.

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 07:46 PM
Because it was largely made up. Like going camping in your back yard and writing about living in the wilderness.

Have you actually read it?

Fire's Shadow
April 9th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Thoreau's "On Civil Disobedience" inspired Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr., among others. Yet that isn't taught in public schools, which is a shame because it may go on to inspire more people.

I agree. We only covered Thoreau briefly in high school, and I'm pretty sure none of the material we went over was from "Civil Disobedience." In the gay activism thread, where I was backing civil disobedience used there, I ended up stumbling apon that writing from Thoreau, and I couldn't help but feel inspired. I couldn't have agreed more with what he said in that essay.

Maybe we'll be asked to cover it in one of my core english classes? I doubt it, but oh well.

EDIT: Here's a site where you can read a copy of it online if anyone wants to read it themselves:
http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil.html
It is in 3 parts there.

pawnman
April 9th, 2006, 09:33 PM
Have you actually read it?

Yep. I wasn't all that impressed.

arctic splash
April 9th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Absolutely.

Why they didn't hang Henry David Thoreau is completely beyond me.

His aunt paid the taxes for him the next day, anyway. He was pretty upset.

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Yep. I wasn't all that impressed.

Well, there's nothing wrong with not being impressed or liking it - but that hardly equates to it being "made up."

arctic splash
April 9th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Would YOU allow it to be taught in schools, if YOU were in charge?

I wouldn't.

Thoreau is taught in public schools... probably not very often... even in Massachusetts, most public schools probably don't... but I know a few that do.

arctic splash
April 9th, 2006, 10:06 PM
He wasn't nearly as self-sufficient as people make him out to be....one of his upper-class buddies owned Walden Pond. It was basically camping in his friend's back yard, complete with meals delivered out there by the water.

He fully admits this in Walden. He never claimed to be self-sufficient, and he knew he could do a lot better. That doesn't detract from the worth of Walden.

No, he didn't know what true wilderness was, but he helped us appreciate what *is* in our own backyards. What he did observe and find out over the course of his experiments is none the less valuable... and as Thoreau points out, his insights are not for everyone. Personally, it's one of my favourite books.

Hawk Shadowsoul
April 9th, 2006, 10:56 PM
He fully admits this in Walden. He never claimed to be self-sufficient, and he knew he could do a lot better. That doesn't detract from the worth of Walden.

No, he didn't know what true wilderness was, but he helped us appreciate what *is* in our own backyards. What he did observe and find out over the course of his experiments is none the less valuable... and as Thoreau points out, his insights are not for everyone. Personally, it's one of my favourite books.
Ever been in the wilderness? Guy's a loon.

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 11:12 PM
Ever been in the wilderness? Guy's a loon.

How so?

Laisrean
April 9th, 2006, 11:21 PM
Guy's a loon.

And those are the ones who change the world. The world needs more people like Thoreau, imho.

Little Billy
April 9th, 2006, 11:23 PM
Gotta disagree with you about Walden, LB. I think it's an amazing piece of work. What makes you think of it as garbage?

Obviously, we're in total agreement about Civil Disobedience.

He brags about being self-sufficient by - in one case - building a cabin with nails scavenged from a prior building.

But that isn't being self-sufficient, is it? Somebody had to make those nails in the first place.

Being a rag-picker != being self sufficient.

Little Billy
April 9th, 2006, 11:24 PM
His aunt paid the taxes for him the next day, anyway. He was pretty upset.


Yeah, I already mentioned that.

Thanks, though.

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 11:31 PM
He brags about being self-sufficient by - in one case - building a cabin with nails scavenged from a prior building.

But that isn't being self-sufficient, is it? Somebody had to make those nails in the first place.

Being a rag-picker != being self sufficient.

He admits it's difficult to start without borrowing, and also states that his friends helped him build his cabin. Hell, he even points out his own shortcomings.

Little Billy
April 9th, 2006, 11:32 PM
He admits it's difficult to start without borrowing, and also states that his friends helped him build his cabin. Hell, he even points out his own shortcomings.


But it isn't self-sufficiency, as he claims.

The poor bastard tried to prove (almost 200 years ago) that you could live without being ensnared in The Machine(tm). He wound up proving the opposite.

Hawk Shadowsoul
April 9th, 2006, 11:38 PM
How so?
I used to backpack into the wilderness. It damn sure ain't your back freaking yard. No comparison. By any stretch.

Laisrean
April 9th, 2006, 11:38 PM
He admits it's difficult to start without borrowing, and also states that his friends helped him build his cabin. Hell, he even points out his own shortcomings.

He's a human with failings like any other. Doesn't mean he can't be admired for his virtues. And he had many virtues, imho.

How many men would go to prison for refusing to pay a tax that was being used to promote slavery and the genocide of native americans and a war he didn't believe in?

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 11:38 PM
The poor bastard tried to prove (almost 200 years ago) that you could live without being ensnared in The Machine(tm). He wound up proving the opposite.
Interesting. That's not the message I got from his writings.

To each their own, I guess.

Little Billy
April 9th, 2006, 11:39 PM
He's a human with failings like any other. Doesn't mean he can't be admired for his virtues. And he had many virtues, imho.

How many men would go to prison for refusing to pay a tax that was being used to promote slavery and the genocide of native americans and a war he didn't believe in?

One (1), apparently.

Read post #1.

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 11:40 PM
He's a human with failings like any other. Doesn't mean he can't be admired for his virtues. And he had many virtues, imho.

How many men would go to prison for refusing to pay a tax that was being used to promote slavery and the genocide of native americans and a war he didn't believe in?
I agree, Lais. When I read Walden, I don't see garbage or "made up" stuff, nor do I read the words of a loon. But, as I just posted, to each their own.

Little Billy
April 9th, 2006, 11:52 PM
I agree, Lais. When I read Walden, I don't see garbage or "made up" stuff, nor do I read the words of a loon. But, as I just posted, to each their own.

Heh.

On the other hand, as I said, On Civil Disobedience was a work of GENIUS.

Or at least the ramblings of a free man.

Doctor Jeep
April 9th, 2006, 11:57 PM
On the other hand, as I said, On Civil Disobedience was a work of GENIUS.

Or at least the ramblings of a free man.

No argument from me. :)