Beltane?

[Heart of Isis]

I'm seeking some input in regards to Beltane. Specifically any info on Egyptian connections if there are any. My pantheon is Egyptian, my queen Goddess is the loved and beloved Isis. I have been attending a public circle for the last 3 months after 4 years of hibernation, if you will. It is facilitated by a HPS acquaintance of mine I have known for years. Though I am not Wiccan (I'm an ex-Wiccan) and while I am also not Kemitic. I would say that along with being completely devoted to Isis I probably lean toward being an eclectic Pagan, I'm guessing. I am being taught many things by Isis right now and am starting to have difficulty in translating during ritual with the circle. My acquaintance has gone out of her way to make things as comfortable as possible for me to attend and that does not go without my gratitude.

Here's my dilemma: Beltane is coming as anyone here knows and she wants me to attend it. However, I have never had a "good Beltane". Also, I have done some research on it and have seen some slight connections with Taurus. (That happens to be me Sun sign). Also, I have read about some supposed very slight connections with the Egyptian thing. However, I have seen nothing solid about it. I have also read that Beltane is for couples/plural. I am singular. With that alone I can imagine why I have not resonated with that Sabbat. While I am not absolutely ordered or commanded to attend, my friend is putting the sob story on me in an attempt to convince me to attend. I do not feel comfortable at all with attending and not being an official member of the circle and not being Wiccan gives me the room to choose. I don't want to make my friend sad or what have you so I am making the effort to research it at least and in that way give clear reason to her just so she can feel settled.
What I would like to know is if there is anyone here who could show or direct me to any solid info showing an Egyptian connection or what have you. I already know about the position of fertility with in Egyptian ways of old. I just haven't seen a solid Beltane connection.

Thanks for your help.

Heart of Isis

[Jolantru]

I am not sure where and how the 'myth' of Beltane being a festival for couples is originated from.

The first 'public' ritual which I had attended was a Beltane one. Granted it was with a couple of friends but we did the ritual in public, on a beach. We were all singles at that time but it being Beltane didn't faze us at all.

Perhaps, honor the Netjer who are connected to the sun or fertility/growth? Isis is one. How about Hathor or Bast? Beltane is about honoring the spring tides and it's not exclusively for couples or whatnot. I think it won't hurt to go in with an open mind. Just enjoy the ritual as it is.

Hope this helps,
Jolantru

[BlueMoon13]

Perhaps, honor the Netjer who are connected to the sun or fertility/growth? Isis is one. How about Hathor or Bast? Beltane is about honoring the spring tides and it's not exclusively for couples or whatnot. I think it won't hurt to go in with an open mind. Just enjoy the ritual as it is.


Excellent suggestion. Beltane is a solar holiday, and certainly the Egyptian path has many solar entities......Enjoy your friend's ritual, and relax. :hugz:

[skilly-nilly]

What I would like to know is if there is anyone here who could show or direct me to any solid info showing an Egyptian connection or what have you. I already know about the position of fertility with in Egyptian ways of old. I just haven't seen a solid Beltane connection.

Thanks for your help.

Heart of Isis

I don't see how there could be an Egyptian connection per se. Bealtaine is a Northern European recognition of the lengthening of the days in the Spring--specifically the beginning of the 'Bright Half' of the year. Egypt is close to equatorial, ne? And has the seasons of Flooding/Growing.

I don't see how anyone can make these stick together.

[indigo rain]

the sabbats weren't celebrated in ancient egypt, and the festivals they did celebrate were based largely on seasonal changes that were unique to the region and don't apply to most people. we don't know all the dates for sure anyway. so the best you can do is form your own connections. for beltane, since it is a lunar or grand sabbat and sacred to the goddess as Mother, Fertility goddesses, and Lover goddesses, i chose to honor Het-hert. Isis would be a perfect choice, as well. Or there's Geb and Nut, since they were passionate lovers. and you don't have to be in a couple to enjoy beltane. it's not only about love between physical males and females, but about balance, creation, self-love, and a fertile start for new things. Enjoy it, it's one of my favorite holidays.

[cheddarsox]

If you are leaning toward ecclecticism...take some time to figure out what you are celbrating. It will make the journey more meaningful and enjoyable.

You are allowed to celebrate holidays that have nothing to do with ...anything. You can hang with your friends and enjoy Beltane with them as a friend and guest, if it doesn't fit your faith path. Go along for the ride and don't worry about piling on significance that might not be there.

I don't do Beltane...I don't have those associations, but I LOVE MAY DAY! I celebrate what the day and season mean to me in my own path, and don't worry about how/why someone else may be celebrating as well.

I think the most authentic thing is to do your own traditions right, and leave other folks traditions to them. I don't try to mock up some psuedo Wicca Beltane. I just celebrate May Day. Yeah, we do a May Pole, but that is more cultural than religiously significant, and we play outdoor games and some "naughty" games (like cream the fertility goddess), and the kids get wet, and the adults get tipsy and we all have a nice day on the lawn.

Other days are Holy days for me, and I hold the ritual, prepare the altar etc. But some days are just fun for me.

You know how when you mix all the colors in your paint box you get brown....I think traditions can be like that too. Sometimes mixing two traditions can create something bright and amazing, but when we start mushing it all together...we get a depressing brown. Viva la difference! Leave the Wicca holidays to the Wiccans to do a really super bang up job of, and when your turn comes, pull out all the stops and remember to invite interested friends to share the time with you.

cheddar

[skilly-nilly]

beltane is a lunar or grand sabbat


it's not only about love between physical males and females, but about balance, creation, self-love, and a fertile start for new things.

1) Lunar??? :confused: It's about length of day, isn't it?

2) I perceive the equinox as about 'balance' and the start of the Bright Half as about 'growth', myself. :boing:

But I completely agree about the not-necessary-to-be-a-couple part.

[Heart of Isis]

I am not sure where and how the 'myth' of Beltane being a festival for couples is originated from.

The first 'public' ritual which I had attended was a Beltane one. Granted it was with a couple of friends but we did the ritual in public, on a beach. We were all singles at that time but it being Beltane didn't faze us at all.

Perhaps, honor the Netjer who are connected to the sun or fertility/growth? Isis is one. How about Hathor or Bast? Beltane is about honoring the spring tides and it's not exclusively for couples or whatnot. I think it won't hurt to go in with an open mind. Just enjoy the ritual as it is.

Hope this helps,
Jolantru

Thanks. However, the only way for me to bring in my pantheon in this case would be to be by myself. Going to a public ritual and trying to translate in the process just muddies the waters. Also I still question whether the Ancient Egyptians observed "Beltane". I know they had fertility rites and they had a big one like a Beltane around August. Like I said, I'm not tied, but my friend would be disappointed if I don't show. However, she also does understand my devotion to my Goddess and her family and the fact that I am in a deep learning phase and needs to just except that. Should I not be able to attend the ritual, I already have something planned to do myself. I'm just seeking info so I can later show her to diminish her disappointment. (Besides, I haven't been around for 4 years prior so I don't think it makes any difference if I'm there or not).

Heart of Isis

[Heart of Isis]

Excellent suggestion. Beltane is a solar holiday, and certainly the Egyptian path has many solar entities......Enjoy your friend's ritual, and relax. Remember all acts of love and pleasure are HER rituals, no matter how you see her. :hugz:

Of course, but sometimes at certain points in ritual there is a big disconnect for me. My friend/HPS is aware of my struggle and does give me room as much as she can. It just feels uncomfortable for me at points. That's not saying there is anything wrong with Wicca and all (just because I am an Ex-Wiccan), there isn't.
It's just that I have a deeper connection now to my Goddess and her family and she also has me in another learning phase and this time it's really something. The old ways that I used to do things no longer apply. Yes, Beltane is also a solar holiday and in fact the ancient Egyptians had a sort of Beltane around August. It was kind of a combo solar/fertility thing. My friend has already let me in on a hint as to the ritual and with that I already know that it's going to be too challenging for me to translate it into a form I can understand. I fell into a trap when I was Wiccan that turned rituals into a drudgery job type feel and me elders were no help as they kind of fueled that. I do not desire to fall into that ever again. I have attended 5 Beltanes and only one of them was enjoyable for me. (That's because the facilitators had us all laughing most of the time and turned it into a big party. It was actually really nice). As I said, I have already devised my own thing to do and I just want to show my friend information to relieve any disappointment she may feel on account of my not attending. I am also gathering information just to see if perhaps what I find convinces me to attend as well. I want to be fair.

Heart of Isis

[Heart of Isis]

I don't see how there could be an Egyptian connection per se. Bealtaine is a Northern European recognition of the lengthening of the days in the Spring--specifically the beginning of the 'Bright Half' of the year. Egypt is close to equatorial, ne? And has the seasons of Flooding/Growing.

I don't see how anyone can make these stick together.

Yes, that's the trouble I'm having. Then one reads somwhere that Isis was worshipped for a time in Ireland and such and that raises even more questions in my mind. I sometimes think some folks play too fast and loose with certain connection theories.

Heart of Isis

[Heart of Isis]

If you are leaning toward ecclecticism...take some time to figure out what you are celbrating. It will make the journey more meaningful and enjoyable.

You are allowed to celebrate holidays that have nothing to do with ...anything. You can hang with your friends and enjoy Beltane with them as a friend and guest, if it doesn't fit your faith path. Go along for the ride and don't worry about piling on significance that might not be there.

I don't do Beltane...I don't have those associations, but I LOVE MAY DAY! I celebrate what the day and season mean to me in my own path, and don't worry about how/why someone else may be celebrating as well.

I think the most authentic thing is to do your own traditions right, and leave other folks traditions to them. I don't try to mock up some psuedo Wicca Beltane. I just celebrate May Day. Yeah, we do a May Pole, but that is more cultural than religiously significant, and we play outdoor games and some "naughty" games (like cream the fertility goddess), and the kids get wet, and the adults get tipsy and we all have a nice day on the lawn.

Other days are Holy days for me, and I hold the ritual, prepare the altar etc. But some days are just fun for me.

You know how when you mix all the colors in your paint box you get brown....I think traditions can be like that too. Sometimes mixing two traditions can create something bright and amazing, but when we start mushing it all together...we get a depressing brown. Viva la difference! Leave the Wicca holidays to the Wiccans to do a really super bang up job of, and when your turn comes, pull out all the stops and remember to invite interested friends to share the time with you.

cheddar

Yes, I already have my own plan. Thank you for your encouraging words. You nailed how I feel with certain things regarding traditions and such. Also the fact that I have not found a solid connection with Beltane and the Egyptians. Stands to reason since they celebrated seasonal changes mostly. They also had some fertility rites too. I know of a celebration around August that reveres the joining of the Sky Goddess with the Earth God, actually that would be plural. It gets messy after that.
It's funny, I've never really enjoyed May Day. Probably because of past experience. (Don't get me started on Yule either, that's one I stay miles and miles and miles away from).
Yes, for me it's more about the solstices (No, Yule is not a solstice), and that includes Earth Day and learning.

Heart of Isis

[Nantonos]

While I am not absolutely ordered or commanded to attend, my friend is putting the sob story on me in an attempt to convince me to attend. I do not feel comfortable at all with attending and not being an official member of the circle and not being Wiccan gives me the room to choose. I don't want to make my friend sad or what have you

Since no-one else has picked up on that part - attending a ritual where you feel uncomfortable, purely out of a sense of obligation or indeed from being coerced is not a great idea, in my opinion. And an HPS that tries to manipulate people into attending is not doing a good job.

[Redshire]

I don't think I've ever heard of the Egyptians celebrating anything Beltaine-like at this time of year... Their festival calendar is quite different than that of the Indo-Europeans (having only 3 seasons, for starters).

I am personally Kemetic Wiccan, and do find reason to celebrate this Sabbat, which includes an honoring to Aset. If you like I'll PM you why.

But as others have said, if you don't feel comfortable with this holiday, and especially since you arent Wiccan, you should not feel obligated to attend that ritual.


em hotep

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I say that if you're not feeling comfortable celebrating Beltainne you shouldn't go to the ritual just because your friend is putting pressure on you. As your friend she should understand that you just don't want to go and it shouldn't matter what your reasons are. If you choose to celebrate Beltainne do it your own way without the pressures of others.

[Heart of Isis]

I don't think I've ever heard of the Egyptians celebrating anything Beltaine-like at this time of year... Their festival calendar is quite different than that of the Indo-Europeans (having only 3 seasons, for starters).

I am personally Kemetic Wiccan, and do find reason to celebrate this Sabbat, which includes an honoring to Aset. If you like I'll PM you why.

But as others have said, if you don't feel comfortable with this holiday, and especially since you arent Wiccan, you should not feel obligated to attend that ritual.


em hotep

Thank you. Yes, could you PM me your idea of an honoring to Aset and how you tied it in to Beltane? I would be interested.
Yes, the Egyptians usually only celebrated the seasons (except Yule..works for me), which makes perfect sense to me not only from an archaeological/anthropic point, but personally as well. The only thing that would be close to Beltane would be their August celebration, but then the reasons are also different.
To set the record straight my friend does understand she just has some difficulty embracing it. She is not applying a great deal of pressure, but really does want me to attend and will try to get me to do so. It's about me having a social outlet and it so happens that the rituals are the only social outlet I have aside from the drum circle. Both are once a month. However, she also knows that I am known for standing my ground. I feel slightly bad for not wanting to attend, but my comfort level is far more important. The rituals prior to this were ok as I was able to translate half of it. However, I already know and feel that Beltane will be far too challenging and I would be too uncomfortable so it's not worth it and I don't think for one second that the deities (at least the ones I work with), will mind one bit that I don't celebrate it. Ritual is all about honoring them in the first place anyway.
At the end of the day all will be ok.

Em Hotep Ankh,
Heart of Isis

[Seren_]

Since no-one else has picked up on that part - attending a ritual where you feel uncomfortable, purely out of a sense of obligation or indeed from being coerced is not a great idea, in my opinion. And an HPS that tries to manipulate people into attending is not doing a good job.

She might want you there as a friend, but it sounds like that's clouding her judgement a little. A good HPS should also understand that one persons discomfort might impact on the experience of other people in the circle, too. While this person might be pressuring you into attending - for whatever reason - you need to think of other people that will be there too.

I've been to open circles where I haven't been comfortable with some of the things that have happened and it wasn't just the fact that I didn't get much out of the experience, I felt that I kind of put a dampner on other people's enjoyment too.

[Heart of Isis]

She might want you there as a friend, but it sounds like that's clouding her judgement a little. A good HPS should also understand that one persons discomfort might impact on the experience of other people in the circle, too. While this person might be pressuring you into attending - for whatever reason - you need to think of other people that will be there too.

I've been to open circles where I haven't been comfortable with some of the things that have happened and it wasn't just the fact that I didn't get much out of the experience, I felt that I kind of put a dampner on other people's enjoyment too.

Yes, that is my first consideration. I've expressed that to her a million times and while she is aware of it, she sometimes used to think that I use that as an excuse. I think the whole thing is concern that I have no social outlet or life. Sadly, that may be true, but this is not in my control unfortunately. (All I have is the circle once a month). As an Empath I have issues and that requires me to shield and some folks are put off by that. Recently though another factor has come into play that now forces me to drop the social outlet I had for the past 3 months. Sadly, due to inexcusable, outragous economic factors outside of my control ($3.14 for a gallon of petrol being one of them) I can no longer attend anyway. So now all bets are off.

Cheers,
Heart of Isis