PDA

View Full Version : Favorite Pharoes.



Danustouch
January 22nd, 2002, 02:57 PM
For those of you who are into Egyptology...which of the Pharoahs has most interested you through time?

I can't remember the name of the one who fascinates me...but it was a female pharoah. Aken something, I believe. Anyway...she was pretty much erased from the history books, because she was female. When she died, her stepson took the throne, and destroyed every image that had been created of her. I thought the story very interesting.

Anyone know which Pharoah I am talking about?

Melysande
March 14th, 2002, 10:13 PM
I thought it was Hatshepsut....?

I think I like Thumose III the best, though, from the little I've read of him.

Earthcup
March 14th, 2002, 10:47 PM
Hatshetsup is awesome! I have a book on her, very balanced and full of info. She was a very interesting woman, reminds me of Elizabeth I in some ways.

I like the umm, now I can't remember his name but I've always found the heretic interesting. The guy who set himself up as the Sun God instead of avatar.

There was a female pharoah before Hatshepsut but I can't remember her name.

flar7
March 14th, 2002, 11:13 PM
Ramses I

Danustouch
March 15th, 2002, 12:05 AM
Yes!!!!!! Thank you! That's the one! Hatchepsut!

Mnemosyne
March 15th, 2002, 09:34 PM
I love learning about Hatshepsut too! I and some other people wrote about Hatshesupt in the gods and goddess forum.

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12264

I didn't know, Earthcup, that there was a female pharaoh before Hatshepsut. Do we mainly hear about Hatshepsut then because she was so powerful?

I heard that Arsinoe was quite a powerful queen later on. I read somewhere that she was supposedly the tenth muse (ok people also call sappho "the tenth muse." Has anyone else heard about Arsinoe? I suppose that I like reading about female pharaohs, because even in this modern world, it is somewhat unusual for a woman to have such power over a land.

flar7
March 16th, 2002, 01:09 AM
You mainly hear about Hatshepsut(sp?) because
A. She was a woman in the ruling Pharoah position of egypt,and
B. Because she was one of the Better Pharoahs that egypt had.

she was very good at ruling, which made her plenty of enemies.
Her tomb is quite awesome and underated.

Earthcup
March 16th, 2002, 03:55 AM
Hatshepsut is more recent and there's more info on her. Not very much is known about the earlier one I believe. I promise to look it up and post tomorrow!

Mnemosyne
March 16th, 2002, 07:17 PM
Oh Earthcup, I am so intrigued to learn the first female pharaoh's name. Please, please look it up for me. I looked at some books that I have on Egypt and on the internet, but I cannot find anything about the "first" female pharaoh. I did find that a professor from UCLA's Egyptology mention that Hatshepsut was not the first female pharaoh at this site:

http://www.herteen.com/rants/kasia.shtml

The article does not mention about the first female pharaoh though. Except for this site, every site on the internet states that Hatshepsut is the first female pharaoh. All of this research has roused my curiosity. I am particularly interested in how a woman before Hatshepsut would have come to power. In my opinion, Hatshespsut herself was lucky to become pharaoh. Her brothers should have reigned, but they died early. Thus, Hatshepust and her husband attained power. She only got that position of pharaoh because her husband died and Thutmose III was too young. Way to go, Hatshepsut!

Earthcup
March 16th, 2002, 09:49 PM
I found a reference to Queen Ahhotep commanding troops but I'm not sure this is the one I remember. The book is Hatchepsut The Female Pharoah by Joyce Tyldesley.

I'm going to look through it deeper tomorrow because I know I saw a reference to another female pharoah. She didn't reign as long or as prominently as I remember...

Hope this helps a little! The book is really good. I've enjoyed it.

Cat Goddess
March 17th, 2002, 05:12 PM
hatchepsut !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cat Goddess
March 17th, 2002, 05:42 PM
as far as i can see hatshepsut was the first female pahroah however she was known by five other names

Hatshepsut took over the control of the government on behalf of her young nephew as Queen Regent, she continued to use the title of "God's Wife", however, within a few years Hatshepsut was crowned a pharaoh and she adopted the full five great names and her name was placed in a cartouche. On her coronation Hatshepsut became Horus Powerful of Kas, Two Ladies Flourishing of Years, Female Horus of Fine Gold, Divine of Diadems, King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Maatkare, Daughter of Ra , Khenmet-Amen Hatshepsut. She wore the full pharaonic attire for male rulers, including the false beard.

but i'll keep looking

Mnemosyne
March 17th, 2002, 06:06 PM
Yeah, Hatshepsut is shown in art work wearing the false beard and the garments that the male pharaohs would wear- a sign that this woman was trying to fit into the title of king. The pharaohs adapted other names, particularly names associated with the gods, when they took power, so I doubt that it was unique for Hatshepsut to be called five different names. Thanks for the information, Cat Goddess, and looking at information on Hatshepsut.

Ooohh goodie! I can't wait for you to find information on the early pharaoh, Earthcup. I love Egyptology. Thanks for recommending the book. Perhaps I'll read it one day.

Cat Goddess
March 18th, 2002, 12:30 PM
so I doubt that it was unique for Hatshepsut to be called five different names. Thanks for the information, Cat Goddess, and looking at information on Hatshepsut.

no probs but what i was actually trying to get at was that i had been looking for the earlier female pharaoh but everything seems to point towards hatshepsut being the ONLY female pharaoh

Earthcup
March 18th, 2002, 06:28 PM
Maybe the woman I'm thinking of never recieved the title of pharoah but I recall reading that a woman ruled for two years in the Old Kingdom? Until her son came of age or something. But that would make her a regent, not a pharoah.... :huh:
*head begins to hurt*;)

This is driving me crazy! :lol: I may just have to read the book straight through again.....

Melysande
March 18th, 2002, 06:44 PM
Earthcup... I thought it was the same one....? Hatshepsut started as a regent for her son, but she ended up swiping the throne from him. I could always be wrong, though. (I've been concentrating more on learning about the various deities.)

As to the heretic, it was Akenaten, who believed that Aten was the only god. His wife was Nefertiti.

Nefertari was an interesting woman, too. I just wish I could remember more about her from the A&E special I watched. The whole section on the God's Wives was very interesting, too.

Oh, and I'm happy to say that I read up on scarab beetles. I can rest easy now because they don't do anything like what they do in The Mummy. :D

Earthcup
March 18th, 2002, 06:52 PM
No, it was Old Kingdom I'm pretty sure. Somewhere in this book*evil glance at book* it was discussing historical prescedents for women assuming power and they mentioned that there had been a woman who had ruled Egypt for two years but under much different circumstances than Hatchepsut.

Akenaten! I can never remember that name for some reason! There was a really good show on him on the History Channel last month...

He set up his palace so that you would see the sun rise between two mountains pouring light into the palace. In Egyptian art isn't the sun god (Ra?) shown with the sun rising between two cliffs or mountains?

Anyway, by the time Tutankhamun was pharoah that palace was abandoned because it was too offensive to the Gods.

Mnemosyne
March 18th, 2002, 09:49 PM
Yes, Earthcup, the sun diety in Egytpian mythology is Ra/ Re. He's one of the supreme gods. I remember that Ra, a sun god, would be highly important to the Egyptians, since Egypt is really sunny, hot land. The pharaohs would consider themselves as "sons of Ra." Perhaps that is why Akehaten set up his palace, so he could see the sun. That story kind of reminds me of how Louis XIV of France called himself the "Sun King" and set up his bedroom, so the sun would hit it in a certain way. Why was Akehaten's palace seen as offensive to the gods in later times? Do you think that it was because the people were worshipping their pharaohs as if they were the sons of Ra?

Earthcup
March 19th, 2002, 05:17 PM
He was portraying himself and his family as gods apparently. I think he intended to set himself up as the only god and switch Egypt over to monotheism.

It's said Tutankhamun might have been his son or nephew and that his original name implied all life flowed from him but it was later changed to life flows from Amun or something like that.

Anyway it seems he died suddenly and quietly and the palace that he was building was totally abandoned.

I heard this a long time ago so I may be off a bit. I do remember they said the current theory was that he was a heretic and the priests might have arranged his death because they feared he would disturb the maat, or natural order of things...

Earthcup
April 3rd, 2002, 04:10 PM
Still haven't found that reference I saw...:(

Did anyone see the special on Nefertiri last night? A man believes she was co-ruler with Akenaten and that 70% of Tut's treasure belonged to her and Akenaten. He's been given permission to dig in the Valley of the Kings to discover her tomb.

It's possible she tried to mantain control of Egypt after Akenaten died(requested a husband from the Hittites to help her but he was assasinated enroute) and if she was co-ruler that would make her another possible female Pharoah.

Anyway it was interesting. They believe Tut's sarcophagus(sp?) and stone coffin holder thingy (can't think straight today!) was her's originally. They just replaced the face and they carved wings and new script over the old design.

Danustouch
April 3rd, 2002, 05:55 PM
Wow...if they could prove that..it would be SUCH a find!

Earthcup
April 3rd, 2002, 10:04 PM
Yeah, it didn't say when his dig would be starting unfortunately. It's the first time permission has been granted since the 1920's so he must have a really good case. I flipped over to it halfway through the Land of the Gods special.

They say they have too much treasure and too many references and not enough tombs and bodies, though they think they've found Akanaten and his mom though. So they believe her tomb, probably makeshift, must be somewhere in the valley and that it may still have some funerary items that were either to difficult to adapt for Tut or were the bare minimum for burying a Queen with.

They believe there should be at least two more bodies, Nefertiri (also known as Smenkhare(?)) and her father. Since there was a lot of ill will toward Akanaten he and his family's burial sites weren't recorded apparently. One reason they think there was so much treasure with Tut was that no one remembered him, his reign or his tomb.

I'll see if there's any info on the website and if the special comes on again....

Mnemosyne
April 6th, 2002, 10:56 PM
Once again, you have written interesting information, Earthcup. I have learned that King Tut died so young that he never established himself as a prominent ruler. Since he was not a prestigious ruler (or at least there is not much evidence to say that he was), why would Nefertiri and Akahaten's treasures be used for King Tut's burial? Ooohhh, I hope that archaelogists find more goodies in the Valley of the Kings. However, I don't want to be pessimistic, but I think that tomb robbers may have already found many of the treasures already.

Calixto
April 7th, 2002, 03:40 PM
There are some theories that Nefertiti ruled in her own right. Some think she took the name Smenkaure, although I think Smenkaure was Ankenaton's brother.

Tutankhamun restored Amun to prominence and so would be very favoured by the rich and powerful priesthood of Amun.

My favorite Pharaohs?

Menes, uniter of Upper and Lower Egypt.
Djoser, who built the first pyramid.
Thothmoses III, the "Napoleon" of Egypt.
Ramses II, just cuz he built so many cool things.
Necho who sent the Phoenicians around Africa and restored Egyptian independence.
Ptolemy II Eugertes, builder of the Museum and Library of Alexandria.
Cleopatra VIII, for all the "what could have beens"

(Nota bene, the Ptolemys, and Alexander II of Macedon were considered Pharaohs by the Egyptians and were the last Dynasty of Pharonic Egypt according to an *Egyptian* historian of antiquity...I think the XXXIVth Dynasty).

*~*Chary*~*
July 24th, 2002, 06:15 PM
No, it was Old Kingdom I'm pretty sure. Somewhere in this book*evil glance at book* it was discussing historical prescedents for women assuming power and they mentioned that there had been a woman who had ruled Egypt for two years but under much different circumstances than Hatchepsut.


wicca 101 | book reviews | music reviews | historical papers | psychology | sacred writing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Part I:Ancient Egyptian History


intro | history | ritual | temples | priesthood | religion | crafsmen | bilbliography

In the beginning...
Egypt wasn't always a thin ribbon of life surrounded by desert. From 200,000 to 10,000 bce most of what is now known as the Sahara desert used to be verdant grasslands and plains with many trees and several rivers. There was an accumulation of different cultures down to 5,000 bce.

From 6,000-4,000 bce different belief structures, and both matrilineal and patrilineal societies existed along the Nile, for by then the Sahara was rapidly turning to desert and the cultures went to the only remaining source of water, the life giving Nile. Agriculture was already developed, and irrigation systems in use. There was already predominant goddess and god worship in these societies.

From 4,000-3,100 bce, Egypt evolved into states, numbering from 36 to 44, called Nomes. From time to time, Egypt became united into two kingdoms, the Upper Kingdom, from around Aswan down to Cairo, with its capital at Nekhen, whose chief god was a goddess, Nekhebit, the Vulture Goddess; and Lower Egypt in the Delta with it's capital at Uatchet, whose chief god was also a goddess, Uatchet.

Nekhebit, the Vulture Goddess was an maternal Earth Mother symbolizing regeneration of life, from Death comes Life, as the vulture is one of the few animals that can mainly subsists on bodies of animals that would poison others. Uatchet, the Snake Goddess, was venerated as a fertility goddess , snakes lay many eggs, and as protection from snakes. The two goddess, Nekhebit and Uatchet, became the part of the crown over the third eye. Later, the snake goddess became associated with the Serpent Fire whose it's power came out at the third eye, the Egyptian equivalent of the Kundalini, , instead of the top of the head which became associated with another god. The worship of Hathor, Amon, Thoth, Horus, Bast, Sekhmet and a few others are well established though Isis is yet to be found or mentioned.

Throughout its 4,000 odd year old history there is no systematic account of the doctrines used. Different men living at different times do not think alike; and no college of priests had formulated a system of beliefs that was received by all clergy and laity alike. 42 nomes; 42 religions in 4,000 years! Changes were extent, differences, even in the same periods, were great. But all had one thing in common, Organic Totality.

Organic Totality: the physical environment, human organizations, conscience, language and ultimate goals, all make up Egypt's totality. Egypt did not have a central dogma or sacred book. But the one thing that prevented them from losing their individuality and from coalescing into a common unit is the belief in more than one set of gods. The Egyptian religions were both personal and nationalistic. It was personal to each individual or family; private, interwoven with a sense of personal right and wrong, with a personal shrine or "niche" in every house to their personal gods/desses. It was nationalistic because usually the place of the national seat of government determined, for the most part, the overall thought of the period, the morality of the period. The Egyptian religion offers a variety of paths to the ultimate source by individual contact and tailoring information and guidance according to an individual's needs and level of development.

Three aspects of the Egyptian religion and culture.
1. Polytheism; all gods and goddesses are emanations or forces from one source (although in each state, the one source may have a different name).
2. Actualization of the Individual; the development of the potential of the individual was important to the Egyptian colleges.
3. Direct communication/relationship of an individual's surroundings.

The kings of Egypt had from three to five "great names". In addition to Horus there is also the "nebti" name. This name is from the Two Ladies, Nekhebet and Uatchet, and Pharaoh becomes the force uniting the dual monarchy. This name goes back to the 1st dynasty and is based on the two capitals of pre-dynastic Egypt, Neken and Buto, seats of the two goddesses. The third name is the "bee" name. "He who belongs to the sedge plant and the bee," the "nesu-list" name, symbolizing the union of Upper and Lower Egypt. Predynastic: According to Manetho, a race of people came into Egypt and some became the founders and rulers of This and Memphis. The system of solar theology arrived in Lower Egypt (Delta) as early as 5,000 bce in the form of the "Shensu Heru" or Followers of Horus. They made their way to upper Egypt before the 1st dynasty. In predynastic times there were two distinct kingdoms, Upper and Lower Egypt, with their capitals at Neken located slightly north of Thebes, and Buto, in the Delta. We have names of at least 12 kings of these two areas, although the Book of Sothis lists 86 kings, and the "Old Chronicles" lists 84.

There are several approaches taken by metaphysically minded people of today about ancient egypt. There are those who rely on Edgar Cayce. Those who read Budge, the most predominant writer who unfortunately gives an unrealistic and narrow view of ancient Egypt. Those who Elizabeth Haitch's book, Initiation, which relates a fanciful yet historically inaccurate Egyptian initiation. Those who practice through traditions such as Golden Dawn, or paths of Wicca, who do not draw upon traditional or historical Egyptian traditions. (The Golden Dawn uses Greco-Roman Egyptian Tradition, acknowledged by Egyptologists as the period when most of the Egyptian traditions have been radically changed by outside influences, much already lost, and even hieroglyphic writing being incomprehensible.)

There is no evidence that the Ancient Egyptian religion came from elsewhere. In fact in almost every case the a pagan religions that came into contact with the Egyptian invariably adopted the priesthood, had the priesthood teach them, or made it a part but separate from the main religion. This is different from today's pagans who choose to take snipits of the religions they encounter rather then being taught or adopting the priesthood of the other religion.

Egyptologists, The Church of the Eternal Source, and many Hermeticists agree that in the Late Period of ancient Egypt, the priesthood began forgetting the important esoteric side of their own religion, and started adopting others bits and pieces, without the total integration that they practiced earlier. It resulted in a almost total breakdown of usefulness in practicing magic, mumbling now meaningless phrases, and effectiveness in their magic and rituals.

Occult philosophy by these groups and many others maintain that the more powerful an object is based on the formula: # of people using it + # of years in use + the ability of the individual to use it + the correctness in its use. The astral plane is exclusively made up by just this principle, and it's this plane where much of the magic is done. Feel a talisman that was made and used 4,000 years ago, it still has as more power than the modern work of most systems. In Jungian terms an old cultural symbol is more embedded in our subconscious as a universal symbol, and will be more powerful and last longer than a personal one. The effectiveness of the individual to practice his magic or religion is also directly proportional to the abilities and effectiveness of his/her teacher, and the degree of success in achieving the goals in his/her training.

Co-partnership in Egypt

Horned gods in Egypt include Amon, Menthu, Serapis, Sokar. Since at the inception of ancient egypt, 42 different societies were involved in the consolidation of the kingdom, later to become nomes or states, and these societies were patrilineal or matrilineal, accommodation had to be made for both, so laws were passed making male and females equal. Rights of women were highly established. Women could marry and divorce; they could establish their own businesses without a man's consent or co-signature; they could conduct them before, during and after marriage, and there was no community property; . Married couples were considered co-partners and co-equals. Pregnant women, by law, had to be taken care of by the husband or the police came and beat him up.

It was the 2nd King of the 1st Dynasty (around 3,070 bce) that passed a law that women could rule Egypt. Here they are, with the dynasties that they belonged.

Ist Dynasty Merneith, Horneith, IV Henutsen, V Inty, VI Ankhsenmerira, Nitrokris (Noblest and Loveliest), VII Queen, name unknown, VII Queen, name unknown, XII Sebek-neferu-Ra, XIII Aufna, XVIII Hatshepsut, Ptolemiac Period Cleopatra II, Cleopatra III, Cleopatra VII (the famous one).

Hatshepsut is well known because the Pharaoh following her became famous and his monuments, and those of hers that he defaced, are still in existence. For women seeking their historical roots she is a queen worth of study.

Queen Henutsen, also called Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids and wife of Khufu or Cheops,The Egyptians raised Henutsen to the status of a Goddess and shrines were built for her. If you visit the pyramids, give an offering or a prayer to her, for she is the Mistress of the Pyramids and Guardian thereof. She is sometimes seen in a white robe flittering around the Great Pyramids and the other pyramids.

In ancient Egypt, to say the name of a person who is deceased is to make them live forever in heaven. Other ruling queens were later elevated to Goddesshood, Nitrokris, Merneith, Hatshepsut.

*~*Chary*~*
July 24th, 2002, 06:15 PM
No, it was Old Kingdom I'm pretty sure. Somewhere in this book*evil glance at book* it was discussing historical prescedents for women assuming power and they mentioned that there had been a woman who had ruled Egypt for two years but under much different circumstances than Hatchepsut.


It was the 2nd King of the 1st Dynasty (around 3,070 bce) that passed a law that women could rule Egypt. Here they are, with the dynasties that they belonged.

Ist Dynasty Merneith, Horneith, IV Henutsen, V Inty, VI Ankhsenmerira, Nitrokris (Noblest and Loveliest), VII Queen, name unknown, VII Queen, name unknown, XII Sebek-neferu-Ra, XIII Aufna, XVIII Hatshepsut, Ptolemiac Period Cleopatra II, Cleopatra III, Cleopatra VII (the famous one).

Hatshepsut is well known because the Pharaoh following her became famous and his monuments, and those of hers that he defaced, are still in existence. For women seeking their historical roots she is a queen worth of study.

Queen Henutsen, also called Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids and wife of Khufu or Cheops,The Egyptians raised Henutsen to the status of a Goddess and shrines were built for her. If you visit the pyramids, give an offering or a prayer to her, for she is the Mistress of the Pyramids and Guardian thereof. She is sometimes seen in a white robe flittering around the Great Pyramids and the other pyramids.

In ancient Egypt, to say the name of a person who is deceased is to make them live forever in heaven. Other ruling queens were later elevated to Goddesshood, Nitrokris, Merneith, Hatshepsut.

Also i think it was Nitrokis you were referring to Danus in your earlier post

Danustouch
August 7th, 2003, 04:08 PM
*bump*

I, Brian
August 7th, 2003, 04:31 PM
No!!!

Hatsheput was a ruler in the New Kingdom - which was around 1500-1000 BC. She also appeared a few generations before Amenhotep IV - who changed his name to Akhenaten (or - if you're in the US - Akhenaton.

Akhenaten is a real favourite of mine - easily the most fascinating of all the Pharoahs, not least because of possible theological links to the Israelites (Akhenaten is held to be either contemporary with King Solomon, or Moses - depending upon the person you're speaking with). Whichever you believe, with the suggested parallels regarding the hymn to the aten, there was certainly a formative Jewish theology being influenced though at what point time obscures (or, better still, the limits of dating and our understanding of it).

The Berlin bust of Nefertiti is, of course, entrancing. However, there is no known tomb of her though a body has been recently (though controversially) identified as her. Nefertiti was the primary wife of Akhenaten, but disappears from the Amarna records after about year 11 after having at least three daughters. The obvious interpretation is that she died around that time.

However, there is also the intriguing possibility of her ruling in an almost Hatsheput manner as Smenkhare. However, the whole Smenkhare business is very confused although a male figure, little can yet be figured. The more prevailing theory is that it's a brother of Akhenaten.

As for Tutankhamun he is certainly the son of Akhenaten though I'm afraid I forget offhand what the name of the wife was. And it is a glorious testament to serendipity (some would say, coincidence ;) ) that the most complete Pharonic treasure ever discovered was that of the son of the most enigmatic ruler of Egypt!

If you'd like more info on the Hymn to the Aten I did a short piece on it here:

Akhenaten and the Hymn to the Aten (http://www.comparative-religion.com/ancient/akhenaten.php)

Ahautenites
August 7th, 2003, 04:36 PM
(or - if you're in the US - Akhenaton.

Just an FYI.... Not all of us in the US spell it with an O. ;)

I, Brian
August 8th, 2003, 04:00 AM
No problem. :)

Unbelievably, I didn't reference the Psalm the "Hymn to the Aten" is compared to, which is Psalm 104.

Elena
June 11th, 2004, 04:27 PM
Neffertiti was not a ruller on her own right if you are still wondering.
Dont ask questions, just know.