Chariot: Plato and Freud

[tendermonster]

I'm new to the forum and rather new to tarot, too, so perhaps this observation is repetitive, but I thought it was worth throwing out there. I'm currently reading "The Tarot: History, Symbolism, and Divination" by Robert M. Place. In one chapter called Plato's Chariot, Place discusses Plato's image of "Phaedrus" which illustrates the immortality of the soul through a charioteer and two winged horses, all three of which represent different aspects of the soul. Plato lists the two horses as the Soul of Desire, or Appetite and the Soul of Will or Spirit. He calls the driver the Soul of Reason (who must guide the other parts).

I see a correlation here between Plato and Sigmund Freud, who wrote extensively about the Id, Ego, and Superego, which roughly relate to the same definitions: Desire (Id); Will (Superego); and Reason (Ego).

Any thoughts on this? How do you interpret the Chariot? Should Freud even be brought into the discussion?

I look forward to hearing from you!

[LisaT4P]

I may have to check out this book. :) The Chariot is my upcoming year card, I believe. I've also had it in a recent reading. This view of it made alot of sense to me.

Freud can always be included in a conversation about tarot. What is tarot but a tool to explore the mind? I've often said that a tarot reading is just a cheaper (but no less effective) version of a therapy session. ;)

Edited to add: Am I the only one who ever wants to call Freud "Frood Dude"? LOL I think I have too much Bill & Ted in my daily diet.

[Bethra]

Well since Carl G. Jung did so much work on the Tarot I don't see there being any problem with linking Freud in also. Well no problem other than the fact that I personaly have a few issues with Freud :lol:

There is very much a psycology to the Tarot since it is so closely linked to the journey of the soul which some define as ego. :) I have before read refrance to the three splits of ego, I think somewhere this is the premise behind Crowley's art work but I would have to read my book of Thoth once more to be sure. The driver of the chariot is most definatly the guiding/controling/dirrection of the chariot and it is noticable that he does this without the use of raines in most traditionaly imaged decks. It is the power of his will which guides the charot and thus the ego which controls. Since Crowley was so driven by his own he placed a high level of importance upon the personal ego/will. The Magus card, The Chariot and the Devil all were very important cards to Crowley dealing with the ego and the will power required for the master magus to coin his trade.

But anyway I digress. Yes I believe it is an important part of the symbology of the traditional imged cards :D

[Cat]

Hmm...interesting thought. However the superego is more about 'should' ideas than about will though maybe I am just nit picking here.

[PeatBog]

The Robert Place book is a great place to start your tarot studies, lucky you. You can view the Chariot through a Freudian mode with the horses being the Id. (It's not mandatory to look at in Freudian terms though.) One of the traditional meanings of this card is 'will', and it can be thought of as a triumph of reason.