Info on being a High Priestess?

[BluMystic]

What does it take and is it a path that can be followed?

[Elderbush]

What religion are you talking about? Wicca? If so, each tradition has different rules about who is a High Priestess. Some traditions do not use the title at all. Generally speaking it denotes someone who has been in Wicca a long time and has been the High Priestess of a coven. I've heard of solitaries calling themselves a High Priestess but don't honestly know why.

[Seshata]

Yes, it does take a while to train within a specific tradition to be a High Priestess and it is a position of great responsibility. It is not a specific path or 'tradition' to follow. The training etc can be seen in a similar way as that of in Voudon a Mambo. I view it also as a position where you 'serve' for some it is just their coven, for others it also includes the general community as well.

Are you possibly more thinking of how to, for example, dedicating yourself as Priestess of a specific deity?

Just my initial thoughts.

BB

Seshata

[RakliDipity]

If you have, or can find, the Riders of the Crystal Wind's Book of Shadows (it is freely distrubuted on the Internet) then read the article on Intiation Standards, that'll give you some idea, but are you in a coven?

[Jenett]

Most commonly, that term is used by the leader of a group within Wicca or a path heavily influenced by Wicca. Different groups and traditions have different requirements.

There's also often a distinction between "High priestess of this ritual" (in other words, a person who takes on specific ritual tasks, but only for the duration of one ritual) and "High priestess of a group" (someone who takes on ongoing tasks about keeping a group functioning, healthy, and reasonably happy.)

In a number of groups, it's common for individual people to take on the HP or HPS role in a particular ritual (to learn those skills, they have a particular affiliation with the work being done and the training to do so, etc.) but the longer-term role needs some stability. I've heard of groups that switch roles periodically (every 6-12 months) but in many more cases, people may keep it for quite a bit longer.

I got my second degree in the tradition I work in (a eclectic based religious witchcraft tradition) which is the point I could have chosen to hive off and form my own group. I chose not to, as there's still a *lot* of stuff I want to learn to do better first.

For us, first degree is about competency with the basic ritual tools, concepts, etc. Can we cast circle, have it work, and be able to explain why we made the choices we did in what we did? Can we design a ritual for an Esbat or Sabbat that works? Have we been showing up for group rituals and taking on smaller roles (calling a quarter, blessing or banishing the space, etc.) reliably? There's a lot of *knowledge* involved with being able to do those things but it's also about being able to put that knowledge to work.

After that, things get more complicated, because we're not just talking about ritual skills. Can a HPS keep things organised? Can they keep their own life together *while* also running a group? Can they manage balance between the different demands of the group (people wanting time, planning rituals, classes, study sessions, social gatherings, intake of potential new members, etc.) and the other needs of their life (work, family, the occaisional other hobby?)

Do they have the skills to be able to help lead others in ritual - not just in terms of ritual, but an understanding of teaching techniques, the limits of counselling/advice they should do, and when there needs to be professional intervention, do they know how to deal with people hitting bumps in the path in a way that works (or many ways that work, since different approaches work for different people.) How to help deal with group dynamics issues and conflict resolution?

Lots of complicated stuff, and often best (or only) learned through actually doing it with other people, in a setting where you can get feedback and suggestions for improvement. (Sort of like how you can learn how to sing by yourself, but you can't learn how to sing in harmony unless you spend some time learning to sing with other people.)

While traditions vary on exactly how they do that, most of the ones that exist for more than a couple of years or which train up multiple people in leadership figure out a way to do that somehow.

[RainInanna]

IMHO, an HPS has taken on a special responsibility to the community and her gods. Not only would she lead a coven, she would provide services to the Pagan community such as open circles, classes, counselling, environmental clean-ups, ministerial services such as handfastings, Wiccanings, etc. Further, I think she would dedicate more time to serving the Gods in whatever way They see fit, rather than just calling them into circle. I see it both as a higher level of knowledge and experience and a higher level of service in connecting the Pagan community together and the Gods to the Pagan community.

However, I would really be interested to get the point of view on this from an actual HPS!

[Kendrah]

What does it take and is it a path that can be followed?

Of course it's a path that can be followed. It's a *hard* path but managable. I don't think it's for everyone or even for the majority of people.

It really takes the preception that you know "everything", that your life is in order enough that everyone feels they can lean on you (you become that groups pillar of support, regardless of your wellfare.) You have to project a sense of the receptive "feminine" aspect (motherly). You've got to be available whenever someone needs you. You give up the right to have the petty "he said she said" crap. While every now and again you can lean on everyone, it can't be often because they will feel recentful and put upon (something that will be hard for you in the beginning because the support system you've had in place will be gone that quick).

I think there is a great difference between an advanced practitioner and a priest/ess. A priest/ess is an advanced practitioner (has drawn down, writes/ puts on rituals, teaches, heals, etc.) but they also have this added servitude to a group of people that can feel like you're being used. It's a lonely place to be in at time yet very fulfilling.

Just my two cents.

[BluMystic]

Of course it's a path that can be followed. It's a *hard* path but managable. I don't think it's for everyone or even for the majority of people.

It really takes the preception that you know "everything", that your life is in order enough that everyone feels they can lean on you (you become that groups pillar of support, regardless of your wellfare.) You have to project a sense of the receptive "feminine" aspect (motherly). You've got to be available whenever someone needs you. You give up the right to have the petty "he said she said" crap. While every now and again you can lean on everyone, it can't be often because they will feel recentful and put upon (something that will be hard for you in the beginning because the support system you've had in place will be gone that quick).

I think there is a great difference between an advanced practitioner and a priest/ess. A priest/ess is an advanced practitioner (has drawn down, writes/ puts on rituals, teaches, heals, etc.) but they also have this added servitude to a group of people that can feel like you're being used. It's a lonely place to be in at time yet very fulfilling.

Just my two cents.

That is a great response, and it is exactly how I've been and feel. I know I'll have to do alot of learning, and I'll have to deticate alot of time and effort. I'll be ready to sart in the near future. I'd like to learn about wicca, but not stay in just one certain path. I'm a mystic, but do not dwell in a pacific path, I feel all is connected. But I'd like to know of them. Also, I wouldn't be in a coven. I'd like to help others in the communtiy, like I have been.

[Maverynthia]

The topic came up on a podcast I listen to called "The Secrets In Plain Sight" he explained really what it takes to be a religious leader, because that's what the state of preisthood is. Which is what some of the people have already said. YOu have to be honest and above the pettiness.

[Kendrah]

That is a great response, and it is exactly how I've been and feel. I know I'll have to do alot of learning, and I'll have to deticate alot of time and effort. I'll be ready to sart in the near future. I'd like to learn about wicca, but not stay in just one certain path. I'm a mystic, but do not dwell in a pacific path, I feel all is connected. But I'd like to know of them. Also, I wouldn't be in a coven. I'd like to help others in the communtiy, like I have been.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Unfortunetly, it isn't a title you can give yourself. A HPss is something that is formed from a Coven. And really, who really wants the job? :lol: What I am saying is having absolutely no space of your own, all your money gets sucked away by the Coven (temple, what have you), all your free time is dicated by the needs of others. I'm training to be a priestess, sometimes down in the far far future, and I live at the Covenstead. I can't remember one weekend that I've been completely alone.

It's very easy to feel that people are using you when you're on this path. Very, very easy. Being in complete service to others and then having to feel the backlash if your not perfect. I can't come home from work and go be by myself, if other people are there. They start the "why is she ignoring me" thing. At beltain last week, I had an ulcer that was trying to kill me and even Loritabs weren't taking away the pain. I had to deal with people thinking I'm maddenly negative because I wasn't participating and I left early.

All I can say is that it's very hard. Think long and hard before putting yourself in that place.

[BluMystic]

YOu have to be honest and above the pettiness.

I know. I never have my own opinion about a person... like I can't say there is a single person that I met in my life, and have a negitive opinion about. I understand that it is only human nature for any wrong doings upon me. I see everyone as equal. I can't tell a lie as good as I used to... lol... either. My concious would get to me at eat me up alive, because it is no longer within my heart to decieve anyone.

[BluMystic]

Unfortunetly, it isn't a title you can give yourself. A HPss is something that is formed from a Coven. And really, who really wants the job? :lol: What I am saying is having absolutely no space of your own, all your money gets sucked away by the Coven (temple, what have you), all your free time is dicated by the needs of others. I'm training to be a priestess, sometimes down in the far far future, and I live at the Covenstead. I can't remember one weekend that I've been completely alone.

It's very easy to feel that people are using you when you're on this path. Very, very easy. Being in complete service to others and then having to feel the backlash if your not perfect. I can't come home from work and go be by myself, if other people are there. They start the "why is she ignoring me" thing. At beltain last week, I had an ulcer that was trying to kill me and even Loritabs weren't taking away the pain. I had to deal with people thinking I'm maddenly negative because I wasn't participating and I left early.

All I can say is that it's very hard. Think long and hard before putting yourself in that place.

Do I really have to be in a coven? To be able to help others in this way, as spiritual advice, readings, insights? I do not have to call myself a high preistess. Someone told me this is what I am destined to be. But it is only a title.

But I am not going to be one for wicca only. There are many spiritual paths.

[Dio]

Do I really have to be in a coven? To be able to help others in this way, as spiritual advice, readings, insights? I do not have to call myself a high preistess. Someone told me this is what I am destined to be. But it is only a title.

But I am not going to be one for wicca only. There are many spiritual paths.

Yes, a priestess does help people who come to her for spiritual advice and insight. She no longer has a choice, it's just the way she lives. No, it is not necessary for a priestess, or someone who works in the capacity of a priestess, to be in a coven. But the title is generally something that is given to one who has passed certain levels of understanding and wisdom within a group setting. It is not usually something that someone self-proclaims themselves to be.

If you are not working in a group, you should never need the title. You may act in a manner that is befitting of a priestess, as one who is there to help others find the change that they need to grow. The universe will put you in the best place where you can provide that. But there is no reason to proclaim yourself to be anything other than who you are and where you need to be in your own spiritual development. No one really cares what your title is. They care what you can provide them with spiritually. Even if it is just to give a reading, or to be a friend, or to offer a helping hand. They don't need to know your title. Just your presence in their lives should be enough to create the change necessary for their spiritual growth.

I have had many teachers and priestesses whom I have looked up to. One of those priestesses, upon being asked by someone what it took to become a priestess, gave the answer, "If you are asking what it takes to be a priestess, you are no where near ready to be one." I took this to mean that your ego can't have any place in being a spiritual advisor. I believe this to be very true.

Honestly, titles mean nothing. Just be yourself. If it is meant that you lead others into spiritual growth, so be it. Even priestesses are still learning and growing. Don't worry about where you are on your path. Just be on it.

[Kendrah]

Do I really have to be in a coven? To be able to help others in this way, as spiritual advice, readings, insights? I do not have to call myself a high preistess. Someone told me this is what I am destined to be. But it is only a title.

What is a high priestess? She rules over a group of people. She is their counciler, their guide and their leader. It's hard to fill that role without some people around you.

And I have doubts as to it being "destiny", because being a priestess isn't as grand as that. But without some experience in a group and without the experience of what it feels like to raise other people up then you can't call yourself a priestess. And if you have very little knowledge of the tradition (as you said "I'd like to learn about wicca, but not stay in just one certain path.") then how can you even begin to look down that road.

Start with growing on your path. In ten or fifteen years, you can begin to start down the path of a priestess.

In my humble view, that is.

[Kendrah]

I agree with Dio. It's a wonderful name for a less then wonderful job. ;D

[Philosophia]

Just a question (and its probably been answered and I've missed it),
but can you be a priestess (not high priestess) and not be involved in a coven?

[Cerulean_damselfly]

I'm wondering if these thoughts might be helpful?

It could be you might want to follow a path of study first that attracts you--whether herbs, divination, healing studies... and the context will present itself as time goes on. I believe having a creative outlet, a good balance in home and family relations, and taking helping-profession classes--for counselling, etc... are very helpful to those who relied upon as priestesses or elders in their community.

I have met and read of priestesses in spiritual contexts of certain faiths. They were not Christian faiths, though and the women were not nuns, but dedicated and trained in a spiritual tradition. I know they did not go by the title of reverend--I think somehow people called them respectfully by terms similar to teacher or such. I believe the Eastern faith ones that I met officiated at births, deaths, marriages and ceremonies in terms of prayers or blessings.

I met a Buddhist priestess of an American-community-based Buddhist center--she was not a nun, but had undergone training in Japan to be recognized as a priestess. It was not hereditary in her case. I once met an elderly Japanese priestess who officiated at a relative's funeral in the Buddhist context as well.

I've heard there were hereditary families in some traditions. I have read that there are elderly women in certain areas-Okinawa, I believe--who will play roles in dancing, reciting, singing prayers, remembrance, ritual observances. Their title of priestess might be honorary, as they would be relied upon to keep things in perspective and help others learn. But the Okinawan ones--if the little that a grandmother remembered and what I read was true--were not as Western ones in a wiccan way--because their ceremonial context didn't seem to me as being involved in practises involving what we call 'magic' or 'fortune-telling'.

But then again that cultural context in 'good luck' colors, harmonious placements of items, folklore, herbal preventative ways, etc...were considered naturally in tune to being a part of their upbringing...it was never labelled magic.

I've met Western wise men and women that I might have identified as effective in the role of HP or HPS should they ever want to identify themselves as such to me--but it was likely I found out by someone letting me know who such and such was in context. In person, their modesty was such, I only identified them as wise, kindly, reliable and rather good at directing others with a light touch. Of course they were human, but I noticed an ease in which they could also take charge should there be a need and when it came time to address the spiritual, and the divine-- one felt they knew this by experience.

It was like meeting grandmothers and grandfathers, counsellors or teachers-- experienced in the best way, involved and concerned, personable, but not pressing or very judgmental.

I do hope this is helpful.

Best regards,

Cerulean_Damselfly

[mtpathy]

What does it take and is it a path that can be followed?

This might be a completely backwards comment,and might even be completely
off topic,so if it doesn't relate then just dismiss it.
but imo if a person is looking to be a priest or priestess,then those aren't the
ones you actually want in that position, as they tend to see it as being in
control of others,and tend to misuse that power when the oppertunity comes
about,someone that actualy wants to be in the position of babysitting other
adults and putting up with all there drama,is one who enjoys spreading that
drama themselves.
I would personaly prefer giving that position to someone that doesn't want it
because that way they are more comfortable simply directing the movments
and let people be what they naturally are, and play there natural part within
the circle,they would pay more attention to the group and change the nature
of the ritual or ceremony to suit the majority,instead of suiting there own
personal or "selfish" needs.or to suit there own agenda.
Exits through the Entrance

[Cat]

Kendrah,

If that's been your experience with HPSing, I don't agree with the training you are receiving.

It should not drain your money. Members of the group have a responsibility to split costs according to their abilities, and if no one can help out significantly then you all need to cut down on what you buy.

It should not leave you with no personal space, or feeling drained all the time, or feeling that you need to be perfect. Members of your group should not be guilting you for having personal needs and if the majority of the group does that on a consistant basis, there is a problem.

These are warning signs.

I don't want to offend anyone or judge another's trad, but I just had to say that maybe there is a *reason* you feel used. Take a good hard look at what is going on in your group.

[Kendrah]

Kendrah,

If that's been your experience with HPSing, I don't agree with the training you are receiving.

I'm in a unique position, as I live in our temple. While they do try to put in money, it's not as often as it should be like. And as for pettiness, I think my group is below the norm on that aspect, comparitively to the rest of the valley. But it is there. And at the end of the day, when you have to give so much, it is hard when there is that to deal with.

It's human nature. *shrugs*

[Jenett]

** I'm in a unique position, as I live in our temple. While they do try to put in money, it's not as often as it should be like. And as for pettiness, I think my group is below the norm on that aspect, comparitively to the rest of the valley. But it is there. And at the end of the day, when you have to give so much, it is hard when there is that to deal with. **

It is hard, but it's possible to change group culture. Four of us (our HPS, me as a 2nd degree, one of our first degrees, and one of our current students, also partner to someone in the house) live in the space also used for the temple. (Big house: 5 bedrooms, plus our temple space, which was the hot tub room for the house's previous inhabitants)

We do spend a bunch of time cleaning up before group events. On the other hand, we made it clear that we expect the rest of the group to chip in and they do. We have group dues that help cover specific group expenses (ritual supplies, soda and toilet paper and stuff like that for group use, etc.) We keep records: if there's extra at the end of the year, we'll use it to pay for something nice for the group (night at the movies, nice non-potluck dinner, etc.) Everyone helps chip in on cleaning up and specific pre-ritual setup stuff, but we've got enough people that someone can be having an off night and it's okay.

We do occaisionally joke about "Three priestesses, no waiting" if someone's got a problem, but we also made it clear that we all have other things in our lives (even if that's the fact that it's the one night that week we can relax.)

If someone comes over to talk to one of us, don't automatically expect the others to come socialise (we might, but we might not. It's not personal, we may just need to catch up on stuff, do laundry, whatever else.)

If there's a real emergency, obviously, we'll toss our planned schedules (outside of work obligations) out, and do what needs doing, but that rarely happens. Even the more urgent stuff, we can usually manage to schedule in at a time that works for the people involved.

Likewise, while the temple space is open for anyone to use, we ask people to call ahead (or be okay with us having to say "Tonight's tricky" when they get here.) It's not always a problem, but sometimes we have initiate-only workings or meetings or classes, or something like an initiation. The good side effect of this is that while people don't feel bad about coming over, we get a chance to say "If you just want the space, cool, but most of us have other plans for the evening, and Jenett's going to be in her room catching up on stuff." or whatever is relevant, and that helps reinforce the idea that just because we live here doesn't mean we don't want some time off-duty.

We're on the tail end of a year of doing a lot of work on group culture: it was definitely hard work in a bunch of places, but learning how to set those boundaries (even with living here: I moved in at the end of February) has been really good for everyone. I think it's also a really good priestess skill: as someone looking at eventually leading my own group, I've seen a number of priestesses who've at some point gotten overwhelmed and gotten into what we call 'ice priestess' mode - running on sheer terror and panic, not letting themselves feel or enjoy what they're doing.

I definitely want to avoid that for myself, so I'm making a point to learn now, before it's all on my shoulders, how to set those boundaries in a healthy way - not just for me, but for group members, and how to balance that desire to help and be available with the time and space I need to be healthy and happy (and do the other stuff in my life that matters to me too.)

Which brings us back to the point that it's hard to learn this stuff without other people to work with, and that it takes time to learn - not every problematic situation is going to show up at once, so the longer you give yourself in learning from others, the more chances you'll have to learn while you have better support.

[Cat]

Obviously I agree with Jennett.

The only thing I ever found expensive with running a coven was when my partner got a place with an extra room that was just for ritual use. That increased his rent by a lot, or course. On the other hand, it was his choice, he was able to use it whenever he wanted, and he didn't consult us or expect us to help defray his expenses. Beyond that its small stuff like incense and candles. Altar tchotchkes are bought haphazardly. Some things we are given or make. Periodically someone would be asked to pick up some supplies for us all. The money was really no big deal. The vast majority of the time we have met in someone's living room and we just move the furniture, sweep, and set up. Then when we are done we put it all back.

I am available to everyone I know, if they have an emergency or just want to talk I am there. However, I also have a life of my own so if someone wants emotional support from me on date night, they are going to get a very short version of it (unless something serious is going on, but that is really pretty rare).

I don't put up with grown-ups who want to be emotionally dependent on me. I don't put up with being put on a pedestal and then criticized for falling off of it. And that right there is really the key, IMO. Its all up to the individual leader where they draw the line.

Its hard to avoid burn out. I just stepped down from my own group, after years of co-leading, because it had become just another thing I had to do, and I was not willing to Priestess that way. And also because of some interpersonal issues withing the group that aren't changing and that I do not like. When my daughter is in school and I have more time, I think I will start up again. And in the meantime, I have other work to do within the local pagan community.

[Kendrah]

Obviously I agree with Jennett.

Ya'll are both describing my situation, so you know the pleasentries of that. The only differences would be that we have an open door policy; if the door is unlocked, you're free to come in. No need to call before. My HP is very adament about that. *shrugs*

And the money issue. Our temple takes up a good 3rd of the apartment and we figure in (with rent) about 200 ~ 250 each month that is supposed to be paid in dues. It's something we have in place but it isn't something mandatory. People around here have a problem paying it, though. I'm not quite sure why. They want lists of things we buy with the money, they want to know where every red cent goes to. And they generally just don't put into the pot. I think that comes from the culture around here. To be a good mormon, you have to put in 10% of what you make, no questions asked. I think they just have a knee jerk reaction to it.

[Seshata]

Hi,

I hope this doesn't seem too negative but it certainly does look like your better nature is being taken advantage of on certain levels. In my coven all chip in - from the just initiated onwards. If they don't contribute with money towards incenses etc then they bring the offerings or even at times dinner! There are a couple who drive - if a vehicle has to be hired all chip in for that and the petrol... Everyone knows that they can appear on my doorstep (our home is the covenstead) but at the same time if we have work on next day and it really isn't a serious matter they wouldn't. We're at the end of a phone when needed and obviously by email. But - if I am ill (I'm one of the HPs - there are two of us) and they are aware of me needing my space I get it. To further in their path they also need to learn boundaries and also to consider others.

I know you are training currently - are your HP and HPs taking an equal load as you? If they are not and are not aware that you need downtime they really need to take a step back and think about things - especially the health of their coveners.

I hope this doesn't seem too harsh.

BB

Seshata

[Harmony Aurore]

If you want to help the people in your community ad be selfless in that task... but are a beginner in the pagan field, i'd suggest that you take on the role of a priestess (the responsibilities in guidance and sustanance) in a non pagan form.

For example, have you given thought to fostering children? It's somewhat the same idea... and the needs are just as great, if not greater. You would be providing them with the same support and care as a priestess as a coven in the same sort of environment.

but as a whole i agree with the others, it's slightly odd to be looking to be a priestess in general if you don't have a path and are a beginner.