Pre-requisite for Baptism

[Desert_Shadow]

Hello,
I have a situation to place for discussion. I currently attend college here in New Mexico. A friend of mine, and fellow student, is in something of a quandry. He has been attending classes to be Baptised into the Catholic Church here. The priest in charge of this church informed him last week, that in order for him to be admitted into the church, he has to go picket an abortion clinic and yell "Baby Killer" to anyone entering the clinic. Personally, he feels this is wrong. It isn't that he feels abortion is right, but he doesn't feel this type of behavior should be required for membership in the church. I agree. If a person fells compelled to picket an abortion clinic, then by all means do so. To make this mandatory for a person to become a member of a church seems to be stretching things a bit far.
Do you think this opinion is wrong?

[Amethyst Rose]

This is very wrong. What a horrible thing to do before being allowed into a church.....this isn't about religion...heck, I don't know what it's about, but it CERTIANLY isn't religion. IMO, your friend should find a different church.... I mean, does the church make mothers promise that their babies will picket abortion clinics when they grow up??? NO! I don't even know what to say, this is so wrong..... <grumble, grumble> :G

[amberlaine]

Please, please tell your friend to run far, far away from this church.

I believe the Bible says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

[EasternPriest]

1. Desert Shadow - Picketing an abortion clinic is not a requirement for baptism into the catholic church. The priest involved is wrong for making it seem so.

2. Amberlaine - The Bible quote is out of context. Everyone likes to throw around the "judge not" quote, and conveniently forget the scope of what is meant there.

[amberlaine]

Well, let's see.

Matthew 7:1-5 in my NIV Bible reads, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will ne judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

"Why do you look at the specl of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye', when all the tme there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clerly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

SImilarly, in Luke 6:37, it reads: "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Now, I'm not sure how I'm taking this out of context.

Jesus makes it quite clear that your first priority is to set your own life straight, to learn to walk in righteousness, and to see Truth for yourself before you can begin to teach others.Therefore, it is not your position to judge others, for you yourself are flawed and unworthy of judgment unless you, too, would be judged by such unworthy peers.

Here, we've got a priest telling a young person to go down to an abortion clinic and scream hateful, judgmental, self righteous dribble at people. This is clearly not an act of Christ, especially in light of the above verses. Jesus was not about teaching others to condemn--we see that in several stories in the Bible, including the above verse and including the "first stone" story.

So, having re-read the verses in quesiton and the context in which Jesus delivered the speeches, can you explain how I"m taking the verses out of context?

[Lavender]

Your friend should listen to his instincts. He feels it's wrong, don't do it. No matter what the religion or church is.

[Danustouch]

This Priest sounds far more like one of the Pharisee's of old, whom Jesus had such a problem with in the first place. The only prerequisite for baptism, according to Jesus, is a heart which truly wishes to know God, and to be cleansed of their "sins".

For a priest to assert his personal motives in such a manner, is a huge problem, imo. And it should be reported to a higher authority within the church, such as the bishop of that area. Priests should not be able to manipulate the guidelines and tenents of the faith, to suit their own goals.

I would suggest, as I said earlier, that your friend report this to the bishop of his area, or go to another church, to be baptized. But..even if he chooses to run from this church, and find another church who will baptize him, this priest could pull the same number on someone else. That is why I reccomend that he bring it to the bishops' attention.

[Myst]

Maybe this is a question to be asked of Catholics?

[Danustouch]

Myst...while I can certainly agree with that to some extent...I must also say that I personally studied for the ministry (albeit, youth ministry), at a Christian college at one point in my life (hard to believe, but true), and we were given a pretty solid background in all of the christian traditions, including catholicism. So...according to what I have learned, this priest was out of line. And at any rate, I think the whole..."follow your instinct" thing holds true. If this person feels it is wrong, they should go with their heart.

[Myst]

I don't remember suggesting that you or anyone else didn't here know what they were talking about, so I hope that's not what you thought I meant. However, when my plumbing may not be working I'll call the plumber after asking my friends what they think about it.

Times change and the plumbing might be different in someone else's area.

[amberlaine]

Eh, I don't know, I kind of have to agree with Danustouch here. You don't have to be Catholic to know this guy is pissing up the wrong tree. I may not be Catholic, but I"m pretty chummy with some very devoted Catholics, and I"m quite positive that the Church, as an entity, does not require anyone to picket abortion clinics to become a member of the house of God.

[Danustouch]

Thank you, amberlaine. That is basically what I meant. No myst, I wasn't saying that you didn't think I knew what I was talking about. My point was, that IMO, you don't necessarily need to be Catholic, to know what the Catholic Churches' policy is on certain things.

[Desert_Shadow]

Hi Everyone,
Sorry it took so long to get back, but I have a very irratic and hectic schedule. Thanks to all of you for responding to my friends's problem. It is nice to know I am not alone it feeling it is wrong. I haven't had a chance to talk to my friend, he has been under the weather with pnumonia, so he hasn't been to school or felt like talking very much. Thank you again for the input, I will pass along your very good points.

[Myst]

Yes and my opinion remains.

[Sleeping Ghost]

lol... im sorry but i find this preist guy to be very funny. what i am getting from it is he is anti-abortion (no duh..), and he feels like picket lines arent doing a good enough job. so what better way to bolter the lines than tell anyone that wants to enter the house of God that he must first picket a clinic??? but at the same time, while he feels like he is doing good, he is also detracting people from the light of his God... some people will say "hey!!! why should i have to do something that i dont want to do, to get into the churches graces? ill just look into these other religions to see if THEY have any prequisites for joining their faith. look! they dont!! and i can come to belive this faith!! well, so much for christianity!!". meh.. that just what im thinking, or they will just drive down the street to the next church.

[Empress Kerigan]

HOLY WRONGFULLNESS BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Um I definitely think that your friend should concider finding a different church to attend bc I have NEVER heard of this being a pre-requisite. That priest should be reported too. Who to I dunno, but he definitly is going about things the wrong way.