Advice? (trying not to be a "tattle tale")

[Wyrdsister]

Hello all,

I'm coming here to MW for advice as I'm looking for some "third parties" who aren't involved in the situation I'm thinking about. I'd like some more objective input. Here is the situation.

There is a woman in my city who has decided to offer classes via her small pagan-oriented store. There is a level of interest in the classes, and in this small city there are not many local resources.

The problems I see are these: 1) The woman teaching the courses has not even finished the curriculum she plans to teach. She has not practiced any form of paganism before (her words) until she started attending our local pagan meetups. I admit, this bothers me. 2) She has taken the curriculum directly off a website, but is presenting the curriculum as partly her own creation. She does not name the tradition she is teaching, and is keeping things rather vague in her course description. For example, she is using the term "level" as opposed to "degree," which is used by the tradition who created the curriculum.

I'm having a hard time with this. While I think more people should have access to knowledge they desire, I don't think I can (or should) support an unqualified teacher who has stolen her material. Am I off base here? I know I've presented a biased description of what's going on here, but what do you think?

Thanks to you all in advance,
Wyrdsister

[Rudas Starblaze]

Hmm. if shes taking info from elsewhere and saying its her own i dont know what to tell ya, its not right. as for the whole educated part, who cares. she may know something the educated people dont. it always seems that way in real life anyway, the ones who are certified show one way, while the uncertified can show many ways. in this situation, i would look at her experience. if shes new to it, then she probably dosnt know what shes talking about regaurdless of where she got her information.

[Xirian]

I agree with Rudas. If she doesn't know what she's talking about, don't you think that when the people she's teaching do some research on the internet for the first time and find that her curriculum is exactly the same as what they're seeing on the screen, won't call her out and want their money back, if she is charging? She will be found out in due time, probably by the very people she is trying to teach.

I don't feel that you should support this woman's endeavors either, but she is the one that's really setting herself up for disappointment and the one that will be called out eventually.

If you feel that you need to speak to her, I would just let her know your concerns and offer to help her out if you can, with advice and let her know that you understand that this is something that might mean a lot to her, but that maybe she should get some people with more experience to help her out or make things more understandable and more valid so that she doesn't get into trouble in the long run.

I guess it's up to you. You can either stand back and watch her fall, or you can see what you and others in your meetup can do to assist her, if she accepts.

Good luck and keep us posted if you can.

[wintermagick]

Well... I personally have a hard time with it because I once was involved in a coven that was run by a woman who had never read anything more that one or two Silver RavenWolf books. She had an impressive library of many other books (financed by a sugar daddy)... and tables upon tables of wands, chalices, divination tools... but it literally was all for show.

So I would say don't walk. Run.

[Ninjakitten]

What the woman is doing is a form of plagarism, basically. Someone else wrote the material, and she's taking it almost in it's original form and making money off it. That's not even legal, much less moral.

[Starlight*Rains]

What the woman is doing is a form of plagarism, basically. Someone else wrote the material, and she's taking it almost in it's original form and making money off it. That's not even legal, much less moral.
My sentiments EXACTLY!!!!

[RainInanna]

I'm one of those people who would speak up about it with friends and coven members yet not shout it from the rooftops. As someone mentioned, there is no doubt this person will do themself in, but there is no reason you should avoid protecting your loved ones either. You could point out they can get the course material off a website themselves without the middle-man.

By the way, where are you keeping your blog now? I checked your sig but didn't see a link.

[Ben Gruagach]

I agree with Xirian's suggestions. If I was concerned I would talk to the woman privately about it (not making a public scene) and let her know that it's very important to do things ethically if she's serious about helping the community and not hurting it. Unethical behaviour only hurts the community in the long run.

Perhaps instead of trying to do the teaching herself she could have people who are actually qualified do the teaching yet still hold it through her shop or location or whatever. She can be involved but to do it right it doesn't mean she has to do it all herself. Smart people know when to bring in others who are qualified.

[jcldragon]

Ethical people farm out teaching like this, to those with the Knowledge & Experience. She would gain respect by facilitating other people who are qualified, and also serve the community much better.

This person needs to be stepped on. I think you should contact the people who wrote the material she intends to steal. I would also boycott her store, and tell others to do so, as well.

[Merrilyn]

I'd take the middle of the road on this one. I'd speak up about it to those I trusted, backing my claims up with fact and evidence. However, I wouldn't go about the general public denouncing this person. Her intentions may be ill-conceived, but well-meaning.
I'd like to think that most people would see right through her and decide for themselves that she isn't 'the real deal', but I also think of some of the people I've come in contact with in certain circles down here... They'd flock to her like blind bees to honey, even with irrefutable proof in their hands.
I wish you the best...follow your gut on this one!

[Deranged Hermit]

Hi Wyrdsister, nice to see you here again.
My thoughts are that there's no need for you to support, what she's doing, but really no need for you to warn others against it either. People will decide for themselves no matter what you say or do anyways. If they decide she's not qualified to teach the classes, they'll stop going. If they feel it's worthwhile, then no harm done. :whatgives

[~Elise~]

If she is earning money from using plagarized materials...then that is illegal.

If however, she is NOT charging for the classes, other than a copying charge and for supplies used like herbs, etc, it isn't illegal. HOWEVER, she should not present the literature as her own. If that is the case, just speak to her privately about that fact and give her a chance to change her stance.

If it is case #1-get a copy of the material-give it to the people she is plagerizing from, let them handle it.

Also--talk to her privately about your concerns about her skill level and experience. Talk to her about the possiblilty of others with more experience teaching the classes in her shop. It may be something she hadn't thought of.
If she doesn't claim more experience, titles, etc than she truly possesses... then I wouldn't take it much further than warning my friends.

If however, she is claiming more training, titles, etc, than she actually possesses-then that needs to be called into question, publically. That said, if she isn't teaching a specific tradition training, then it is no harm, no foul.

We had someone in our community a few years ago that claimed a title he didn't have, while THAT was wrong... did it negate all the good he'd done in the community, NO. He wasn't training in that tradition anyway... so, in that respect it wasn't a bad thing. This individual still does great things in the community and is someone that can be applauded for all his efforts.

Elise

[Romani Vixen]

If she wants to have something in her store, she should do a study group. She can show the materials as the intelectual property of the real author, and get people to come in (thereby promoting her wares). But she wouldn't be teaching them, when she isn't qualified.

She's being a fluff bunny, hopefully it's curable with her. lol

People who do what she's doing can also lead to a backlash with the Pagan community in the area. She won't understand everything at this point. Things will get misreperesented, questions won't be able to be answered. And when she is purporting herself as an authority of some sort.. that's just bad.

Have you spoken to the other experienced Pagans in the area about it? Someone needs to say something to her.

Good luck, and keep us updated!

[Wyrdsister]

Thank you all SO much for your opinions and advice! I still have not decided what to do yet, but I will keep you posted. (sorry this is short, but I'm running out of the house at the moment. I'll write something more in depth later.)

Again, thank you!! :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise:

BB,
Wyrdsister

[jcldragon]

Normally I am an advocate of harmony & negotiation. However, in this case case, I see the dinstinct possibility that people will get ripped off, mislead, mis-informed, and disuaded from further study.

Refraining from speaking up against dishonesty, gives power to dishonesty. The things we don't do, are just as much of the Karma we generate, as the things we do do.

[Lynleigh]

I don't see any benefit for people to place their trust in a teacher who is a fake. Sure, the information she is presenting may be helpful and enlightening, but the whole experience would be muddied by the lies.

I would send an email to the website where the information was stolen, and let them know what someone was doing with their work.

[Jenett]

** If however, she is NOT charging for the classes, other than a copying charge and for supplies used like herbs, etc, it isn't illegal. **

This is a common misconception about copyright. Redistributing someone's copyrighted work without their permission (or a number of other uses also related to teaching) is illegal whether or not the person doing it makes money off it.

There are variations in what damages the creator can get, the best legal process, etc. But that doesn't make it any less of a legal issue. And, of course, it's still a major ethical issue.

There are some 'fair use' guidelines that allow teachers to use someone else's work in specific, limited ways but that doesn't apply if you're talking about a whole class. (The commonly accepted guidelines limit the number of other people's works you can share in a given class semester/series without advance permission, as well as the quantity. Method also make some difference.)

You are right that the best thing to do is tell the people she's taking the information from: they can best take any appropriate legal action (as the copyright holders) and deal with other relevant issues.

[Ben Gruagach]

Stanford University gives a good explanation of copyright issues with regard to educational purposes at http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/index.html

[Kalika]

I agree with Xirian's suggestions. If I was concerned I would talk to the woman privately about it (not making a public scene) and let her know that it's very important to do things ethically if she's serious about helping the community and not hurting it. Unethical behaviour only hurts the community in the long run.

Perhaps instead of trying to do the teaching herself she could have people who are actually qualified do the teaching yet still hold it through her shop or location or whatever. She can be involved but to do it right it doesn't mean she has to do it all herself. Smart people know when to bring in others who are qualified.

This is what I was going to suggest.

Maybe some folks at your local pagan meetups could volunteer to teach... and teach subjects that they have some personal experience in.

[Meadhbh]

I agree nornally its no one's business but their own what they choose to teach the people that come to them. However, it sounds like this woman doesn't have a clue what she's doing. In this time it seems like she could do some damange as well as be breaking a few laws. I think that in the best interest of everyone involved that you should let people know whats going on. If they still go to her, thats their thing but at least their there knowing whats going on.

[Wyrdsister]

Hello all,

I just want to start off by saying THANK YOU!!! to all who have responded. It's really valuable to me to hear different ideas and views on this issue. I had only discussed it with two other people locally (one in the pagan community, one not) and the more information I receive, the better I feel.

I believe the woman I mention who wants to do the teaching is someone who's heart is mostly in the right place. I think she genuinely wants to foster community and knowledge, and because she sees a gap in the area of teaching and study groups, she decided to do something about it. I think that's proactive and usually good. Communities need more proactive people! :D Unfortunately, the experience and knowledge with her chosen subject matter isn't there. If she was teaching something she had personal experience with I'd be much more comfortable.

There is also the added dimension of money - she is charging money for these classes. If the classes were free to the public, I'd be less inclinded to want to "warn" people. But because she is charging (a sum that is not huge but not paltry, either) there seems to be another level of dishonestly about all this. (NOTE: I'm not saying charging for education is not right, I'm saying charging for knowledge you have no experience with doesn't seem right to me.)

I've also strongly encouraged her in the past to contact the folks who run this website to tell them she's running a group based on their material. I've phrased it in a positive way, saying "they are very supportive of new study groups and want to help people in any way they can. Maybe they can give you more info/support/advice." I get the impression she was just humouring me, but maybe she did/will contact them.

I still haven't decided exactly what I'm going to do, if anything. Our local monthly meetup is tonight, and if she's there I'm going to ask her about the classes (because I think they may have started this week), and also ask if she's contacted the website for "support."

BB all,
Wyrdsister

[jcldragon]

With the store, and its space for classes, she has the means for facilitating people in acquiring Knowledge. If she makes this about people getting Knowledge & Insight, by finding experienced people to teach the classes, then wonderful things will happen. If she makes this about promoting herself, by teaching classes that she hasn't mastered, then the whole house of cards will fall apart.

[Ben Gruagach]

If the fee she is charging is strictly to cover expenses (usually things like the rental for the room, supplies such as handouts, etc.) then it's not as much of an ethical thing. However, if she's charging for the pleasure of taking her course then she really should be providing something of value rather than merely her questionable newbie understanding.

You might want to remind her that there is a strong ethical stance in the Pagan community that charging for training (apart from covering expenses -- and sometimes not even that) is considered to be a big no-no. Teachers in our community often teach as a free gift in honour of the Divine.

[SSanf]

what do you think?
Well, I know this may not go over well, but I think you should just mind your own business and stay out of it.

The reason is that no one will decide NOT to attend her classes because of your objections. They won't think less of her. But, they will think less of you. You will get no appreciation for your good intentions in this matter at all.

Sorry, but as unfair as that sounds, that is the way things usually do go.

If you talk to her privately, you will, no doubt, make an enemy no matter how tactfully you do it. She just doesn't want to hear it.

And, she will grow through teaching and may actually know what she is doing in pretty short order. It is funny how you must force yourself to learn when you teach. That is a friend you will want down the road so don't blow it now.

If you are really all that bothered, offer her some books that she can use for her classes. Help her put together a course outline if she is amenable to the idea. She would probable like some help.

Don't be a schmuck. You should support anyone who is willing to make the effort to give classes no matter how clumsy the initial attempt may be. It ain't easy, you know.

[Ben Gruagach]

Sometimes the consequences of not speaking out are much worse than the consequences of speaking out and annoying a few people.

[MoonDragn]

My question to you is this... How does it affect you?

Are you just being a busy body and policing this stuff? Its her store, she could teach a class on how to make fluffy bunnies for all you care. You should not care. It isn't your store. If people are dumb enough to take her class, then so be it. Remember, even when misinformation is given out, it still creates an interest. That interest will still be beneficial to the community.

You just need to step back and not worry so much about what other people are doing. Yes, you may have to re-educate these people if they show up in your meetup. But then you will be able to set them straight.

[Lynleigh]

But, they will think less of you. You will get no appreciation for your good intentions in this matter at all.

I would have much greater respect for someone who told me the truth. I might not like what I hear, but I would be grateful to know that the person I was going to put my trust in was misrepresenting themselves in addition to stealing someone else’s work and trying to pass it off as their own.


Don't be a schmuck. You should support anyone who is willing to make the effort to give classes no matter how clumsy the initial attempt may be. It ain't easy, you know.

I don't care how difficult it might be, it is not ok to charge someone for services/information you have stolen from someone else and are trying to pass off as your own. In a teaching environment quality is more important than quantity.


If people are dumb enough to take her class, then so be it.

Those "dumb" people might not have all the information to make an informed decision about whether or not to take the class, which is why someone should let them know. If they still choose to take the class, then they get what they pay for.


Remember, even when misinformation is given out, it still creates an interest. That interest will still be beneficial to the community.

It creates an interest in the false information. That isn't beneficial to anyone.

[SSanf]

I would have much greater respect for someone who told me the truth. I might not like what I hear, but I would be grateful to know that the person I was going to put my trust in was misrepresenting themselves in addition to stealing someone else’s work and trying to pass it off as their own.

That may well be true for you. But, while most people would, probably, say the same thing, I have observed generally the opposite reaction in most people in real situations. What people say they would like and what they do like is not always the same.


I don't care how difficult it might be, it is not ok to charge someone for services/information you have stolen from someone else and are trying to pass off as your own. In a teaching environment quality is more important than quantity. I don't think it has been established that she, indeed, plans to pass the material off as her own without proper accreditation. I think that is an assumption that may be entirely untrue.

I do not know on what Wyrdsister is basing the assumption that she plans to deceive her students.

He says she is, "presenting the curriculum as partly her own creation". That means she is presenting it as partly NOT her own creation and is crediting someone with something. She may have, indeed, added her own insights to the curriculum. I strongly suspect she did or plans to do just that.

She may well plan to tell the class where she got the information and even refer them to the site.

I would hate to see her slandered. And, if Wyrdsister is wrong, it is cruel and needless slander.

Sorry, but I can't go along with that on the basis of the information provided.

[Khepri]

I think WS is definitely going about things the right way by taking it carefully and starting by talking directly to the 'teacher'. After all, you can't go around denouncing her without the facts.
If she is essentially trying to get people interested in paganism, then she'd be better off starting out with a study group rather than classes. If she has as little experience as it sounds, then she certainly has no business teaching the subject (like the A-level geography teacher at my girlfriend's old school, who tried taking the GCSE and failed!). I agree that if she does want to run classes, then she get more experienced practicioners involved.
If she is also using material from someone else's website as a basis for this teaching, then, as has already been said, she is plagiarising to boot. It looks like WS is going to ask her about having the owners' permission, but if it sounds like she has no intention of contacting them, then you probably should let them know.

To be honest, you can probably get a pretty good idea of her intentions by her general attitude when you confront her. If it looks like she plans to continue with her venture on the grounds described despite your suggestions, then I think people should be warned. Certainly talk to some of the other pagans in your group about it.

[Wyrdsister]

Again, thanks to all of you who have replied to my question. This advice and different viewpoints really helps!

Just to clarify a few things: I have ONLY talked to two people about this situation, and have not made mention about it on any electronic format other than this one (one I am confident no one in my area uses or even knows about). The first person I talked to is involved in teaching in our area (more on that in a second), and the other is my mother, a non-pagan and non-involved party. The first person had the same questions as I did, and my mother's advice was "don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong." :D


said by SSanf:
I don't think it has been established that she, indeed, plans to pass the material off as her own without proper accreditation. I think that is an assumption that may be entirely untrue.

I do not know on what Wyrdsister is basing the assumption that she plans to deceive her students.
Excellent points of note. I definitely DO NOT feel that this person's intention is to really deceive anyone or "pull the wool over their eyes." I do feel she really wants to share knowledge and foster community while making her store a viable resource for people in our area. I believe the intention of charging for her classes is to help pay things like the rent, the heat and phone bills, etc., for the store.

As for passing the material off as her own: my concerns about this come from the curriculum material she shared with me and the fellow pagan I mentioned above at a meeting she held in her store to discuss with us the possibility of having others teach different classes in her store. She has taken the material from the previously mentioned website, reworded it but followed it very closely, and put her name on the material. No where in any of the several chapters of material (all she had completed at that time) made any mention of the website where the material was taken from nor the tradition that runs the website. This is a big concern to me. I take plagiarism rather seriously, and believe in giving credit where credit is due (legal issues aside for a moment). NOTE: I don't think this woman is trying to make herself look more important by saying "I designed this course I'm teaching" - I think she just might not realize that she is technically stealing material if she does not credit the source.

So for all of these reasons I have not just stormed into the community and tried to denounce what she's doing. I applaud her initiative and think we do need more resources in this community! This is why I was torn as to what to do. I don't want to endorse stealing and misrepresentation, but I don't want to bad-mouth someone, period.

The more opinions and viewpoints I have on this, the better. Everyone is adding a bit of new information and helping me see things in a way I hadn't before. And ALL viewpoints are welcome. "Don't be a schmuck" is always good advice! (thanks SSanf!) :T

BB,
Wyrdsister

[Jenett]

**I think she just might not realize that she is technically stealing material if she does not credit the source.**

She isn't 'technically' stealing. She is. No wiggle room. She may not realise it, but that doesn't make it less true.

I want to point this out, because it's one of the things that can be really damaging to the Pagan community. If people have questions about the material (or discover something incorrect in it), is that going to make it back to the original creators? Is she going to completely understand the included material and the background (for example, why one term is used instead of another, which is often not something explicitly included in teaching notes.)

How does this demonstrate a respect for other people's work or time? Is that something we want to encourage in new students or new people in the religion?

One of the other issues is that someone may go to her classes, then come across this work, and blame the original creators for stealing. (Sounds weird, but it does happen: a good friend of mine wrote a piece that the authors of a book wanted to include. In some printings of the book, her copyright information isn't at all clear. She's gotten some really nasty emails from people accusing her of copyright violation.) That isn't fun for anyone, and can get really nasty.

I'd personally go and talk to her first. If she really is as honestly caring about sharing information, she will be likely to do the right thing (contact the creators, get permission, and make it clear where the material she uses comes from.) If she's more interested in putting herself forward at whatever other people's expense, that'll probably become clear in that conversation.

[SSanf]

Amazing but true, a lot of people think that if they reword material that it isn't plagiarism. They don't understand that stealing an idea is plagiarism. They really think that if they say the same thing but put it into their own words that it is original. And, they will swear up and down that they wrote it themselves.

I fault public education.

[Ben Gruagach]

Amazing but true, a lot of people think that if they reword material that it isn't plagiarism. They don't understand that stealing an idea is plagiarism. They really think that if they say the same thing but put it into their own words that it is original. And, they will swear up and down that they wrote it themselves.

I fault public education.

I'm not sure plagiarism is quite as simple as that. If it were, then every single Wiccan author after Gerald Gardner is a plagiarist because they were presenting Gardner's ideas in their own words.

[SSanf]

I'm not sure plagiarism is quite as simple as that. If it were, then every single Wiccan author after Gerald Gardner is a plagiarist because they were presenting Gardner's ideas in their own words.I'm sure. By definition, it is as simple as all that.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&hs=Kdt&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&defl=en&q=define:Plagiarism&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

If you pass off anyone else's ideas as your own, you are a plagiarist.

And, yes, those who did that were plagiarizing. It happens all the time.

People such as Gerald Gardner have their own reasons for not pursuing their rights. If he had, Wicca would have been a one book phenomena and it would have died. He didn't want that, apparently.

If you copy and paste or copy and reword someone else's work onto your web site, you are a plagiarist.

Yes, I know the majority of Pagan sites display such material. It is still plagiarism even if everyone is doing it. The exception is when an author has failed to protect their work and it has passed into the public domain.

Be aware that if someone is out to get you, you can be removed from school, fired from a job, and/or sued for doing it. You can have your moral character questioned and be branded as a thief if you pass off someone elses ideas as your own.

If a person does not protect their copyright, it may go into the public domain in time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

Copyright laws are very complex and better addressed by others. Lawyers make big bucks over this issue all the time.

But, what I have said is true to the point that you really are best served if you assume that YOU will not be the exception. An error toward a more liberal interpretation could be very costly, humiliating and something you just don't want.

Use your own ideas and thinking.

Or, plagiarize. It is no skin off my nose if you are caught.

And, I will decide what is in my own best interest on this matter, as well. That's about all any of us can do.

[Ben Gruagach]

If that very literal interpretation of what plagiarism is were to be followed then the world would be a very sad place.

No retellings of familiar stories (Cinderella, Snow White, etc.)

The only books we would have today on Wicca would be the few that Gerald Gardner wrote.

They say in fiction writing that there are really only 20 plots -- imagine what the world would be like if only the first examples of those 20 plots were allowed to exist and all subsequent examples were litigated out of existence.

Stealing other people's work and passing it off as your own is most definitely unethical and harmful in a variety of ways. Going to the other extreme though of insisting that presenting other people's ideas in a new way is wrong and should not be permitted would mean the death of all modern media.

[SSanf]

Familiar stories are generally in the public domain. Those still copyright protected should not be copied without permission unless you are willing to assume the risk and have no moral problems with it.

I am not making any judgement on plagiarism. I really can't since, as you pointed out, most Pagan religions would not be so well known, today, if we hadn't, as a group, plagiarized all to hell and back again getting the word out. We did. It worked. I'd do it again. That is all I have to say about that.

I am simply posting the factual information about what plagiarism actually is since public schools don't seem to get the job done. A person should, at least, be informed enough to know that they are plagiarizing and the possible consequences should they decide to do it.

It isn't an issue of being interpreted literally by you or me or not. The law is what it is. You can't just make the laws agree to what feels good or right to you. Our legal system doesn't work that way. Interpretation is up to the courts.

[Infinite Grey]

Plagiarism is easy enough to get around... just matter of wording, factual references used in a fictional setting is not considered plagiarism... Just look at the Dan Brown case. If you use it as a form of satire, it isn't plagiarism (I.e. Terry Pratchett’s works), if you provide a source reference (even if it's only in the fine print) or if you only use up to 10% of the material.
OR here's the most important part! You can't claim a concept. Concepts are fair game, so you have religious concepts, or fictional concepts or even technological concepts... you can't claim it as your own. Look at how many carbon copies of the LoTR float around... or the web browsers you're using... hell! even this forum!
Using someone else's doctrines and curriculums in regards to a religious sect or tradition can't be completely copyrighted, as it would be impossible to do so.

[Cerulean_damselfly]

Some of the most interesting bookstores or pagan shops I go into have staff recommendations posted by certain materials...and if there's a class related to the item--say candles and candle-magic--I notice browsers, students of classes, will only use the posted handout and written information as a beginning of their questions.

My suggestion would be if I was talking to the owner of the pagan store "you might want to note down written texts to suggest to students for further information as well."

If I were talking to the store owner, I would say, "We're really hopeful that you prosper and your classes help you sell more products. Maybe having recommended books on hand would assist you--you never know what student questions come up!"

You probably have taken classes and know how eager and interested a student will be and how inquisitive they are to apply the knowlege of the topic at hand to their own life. And the question will usually start with, "In your experience, what does...."...and if the teacher of the class doesn't have the experience to apply to the question...um, you can see what the faces of the students says louder than words.

I wouldn't say the above exactly like that--I'd approach it from the idea the pagan store owner wants to sell products and suggest useful resources for their customer/students. Maybe the suggestions below might assist the store owner and also get her in 'research mode'--

--If the owner of a store wants to enhance the browsing and buying experience of items she is selling in her store with knowledge, she could write up snippets or suggestions near the display ot items and also post the source. Say she is selling different colored candles--a display of the different colors with a notecard that has an associated chakra or color symbolism associations typed up as a tiny handout or posted on the display with a quoted source--this would help display the items, suggest a purpose to buy the item and also help authenticate the use.

--Also, the student is likely to be looking for a written book from a recognized publisher to assist in their quest...The students of many new age or pagan topics are likely to be already browsing through three publisher titles online, know common folklore about the subject (even if they say they have no knowledge and are complete newbies) and want the teacher to authenticate the best for their use.

--If you are saying, for example, she might have received the detailed knowledge of the candle-color-chakra association or and perhaps a recipe for dressing candles or doing spellwork with them mostly from the pagan classes and associated website that you know of--and if the website was mostly work of your friends/members of the website's research, not her own--it would be really to her benefit to note the source.
A general chart for candle-color-chakra suggested associations could be vague and okay...but spellwork with candles if she's not experienced might be playing with harmful fire in more ways than one.

--And is important to know the sources? For some uses, say the candle example, student might have heard conflicting, different or other information, so the source of her knowledge might be important. For instance if she finds information that recommends a green candle to represent the earth and suggests it goes to the North part of the alter and then she begin a protection spell or a circle that begins there--students who might have been initates in other traditions might be very uncomfortable. And she's trying to attract and assist her students, not repell them..

I don't know if the above suggestions might assist, but I was trying to think of specific examples that might encourage the store owner to think of supplementing her research and deepening her understanding and quoting or attributing her sources for the best benefit of those concerned.

Hope things go well,

Cerulean_Damselfly

[Maverynthia]

I would tell the people and have an available copy of the website with the address tags printed on it as well. THere might be people from another religious community that might get the chance to point and say "Hey Look! Paganism/Wicca really IS all D&D and isn't serious at all." Others might just get disinterested if they ask tough question and find out the teacher knows nothing, they may just give up. Also, taking something and rewording it IS deception and she knows she is doing it. In the end, people are going to get harmed, and if the core scripture is "Do as you will an it harm none" then there's a lot to say about everything.

[Lunacie]

Plagarizing is presenting someone else's words or ideas as being your own original words or ideas. In other words, lying and misrepresenting.

Offering your own opinion of already published words and ideas (without making such claims) is fair game, and a good jumping off point for discussions. Discussion boards would not be flourishing the way they are on the internet if we could not offer our own thoughts about what others have written (here and elsewhere).