Who decides ? (Abortion/Adoption/having it)?

[Findarto]

This comes from something I saw on Dr Joy Browne.

When a person gets pregnant, who gets to decide what to do with the baby ?
Equal parts Man/Woman, the man, or the woman ?

I've heard a lot of people say the woman is the final word since she's having it, and some say the man should be the law since he's 'supposed' to take 'care' of it. What do you think ?

[Yvonne Belisle]

In a perfect world I would say both equally but sadly this isn't a perfect world. I think it should depend on the circumstanses of the pregnancy. For instance if a man is tricked and told she can't get pregnant and she does I think he should have the right to say he wants nothing to do with the child and not be forced to be financially responsible. I think the father in most situations should know the mother is considering adoption so that he can choose to take the child if she doesn't want to or is incapable of caring for it. I think if the woman was forced or the man bolted when told then she should have full say in the matter without his imput.

[MysticWitch]

I think it "should be fair" and both parents should have a say but it is up to the "woman"

[maphdet]

I think it "should be fair" and both parents should have a say but it is up to the "woman"

Yup I agree with this.
Should be between the 2 involved.
But in the end It is in the female human body, so ultimatly...

[Chibi-Fallon]

Hey, Findarto. They let us have jobs outside the home now. :lol:
I mean only the ugly ones who have to finish college without their Mrs. of course. But still...

The reason it's the man's is because he's the one with the cash? :sick:
It's his kid because he thought it would be a good idea to stick his penis in some woman's vag. Not because he's going to be paying for it.


Either way it's ultimately the woman's body. If it comes down to one parent, that's who it should be.

[Chesna]

before I can answer need clarification..to decide what?? If it is about an abortion, then it's the woman's choice..if its adoption..both have a say legally as both rights need to be terminated...so..i guess that is my answer(s).

Chesna

[Kalika]

Warning: My opinion is highly unpopular with most people. :p

I think both parties should have equal say. After all, both are responsible for creating the life.

If both do not agree to an abortion, I don't think one should occur. (Now, rape eliminates this, for me. Under no circumstances do I think a woman should be forced to carry a baby that is the result of rape, unless she decides to do so.)

However, if one person wants the child, and the other doesn't - I think the person that wants the child should be responsible for raising it. And not harass the other person for money, involvement, etc.

[Yvonne Belisle]

I agree with you.

[Chesna]

Warning: My opinion is highly unpopular with most people. :p

I think both parties should have equal say. After all, both are responsible for creating the life.

If both do not agree to an abortion, I don't think one should occur. (Now, rape eliminates this, for me. Under no circumstances do I think a woman should be forced to carry a baby that is the result of rape, unless she decides to do so.)

However, if one person wants the child, and the other doesn't - I think the person that wants the child should be responsible for raising it. And not harass the other person for money, involvement, etc.

Hmmm..very interesting..I can see where your coming from. But do you mind if I play devil's advocate??
So if I understand what you are saying..you are saying that if an unmarried man and woman have sex and then get pregnant, and the woman wants to have an abortion and the man doesn't she should not have it?? What if he says no for religious reasons but does not make a statement of support..or if he does make a statement of support..and then backs out and its too late to have an abortion what happens then?? Now you could possibly have a child no one wants. I agree that the mans input should be asked but when it comes down to it..it isn't his body..what you are saying is that the woman do something to her body she doesn't want to do..now I agree that if you have sex you pay the price..and maybe one of those prices is the effects of an abortion.
It just seems your choice is based on the assumption that the person who does not want the abortion will support the child..

I hope this does not come across in an attacking way..just playing devils advocate and wanting to understand where your coming from!!

Chensa

[Kalika]

Hmmm..very interesting..I can see where your coming from. But do you mind if I play devil's advocate??
So if I understand what you are saying..you are saying that if an unmarried man and woman have sex and then get pregnant, and the woman wants to have an abortion and the man doesn't she should not have it?? What if he says no for religious reasons but does not make a statement of support..or if he does make a statement of support..and then backs out and its too late to have an abortion what happens then?? Now you could possibly have a child no one wants. I agree that the mans input should be asked but when it comes down to it..it isn't his body..what you are saying is that the woman do something to her body she doesn't want to do..now I agree that if you have sex you pay the price..and maybe one of those prices is the effects of an abortion.
It just seems your choice is based on the assumption that the person who does not want the abortion will support the child..

I hope this does not come across in an attacking way..just playing devils advocate and wanting to understand where your coming from!!

Chensa

Then put it up for adoption. To me, if one or the other person cannot fathom putting an end to the life they have created together - then it shouldn't happen.

And yes, I understand the argument "its her body" - but she's just as responsible for getting into the situation, and giving him that access also grants him the right to be involved in and have an equal say in what results from their joint actions.

[wolf]

I think abortion is a decision that has to be faced by both parties, whether they are in a loving relationship or not ... unless you caught the kid off a dirty toilet seat, there's no denying that each person is 50% responsible for the outcome.

[Chesna]

Then put it up for adoption. To me, if one or the other person cannot fathom putting an end to the life they have created together - then it shouldn't happen.

Umm...ok...but again...you are still making a woman go through a pregnancy she doesn't want for a child she doesn't want and then have to go through labor and delivery and saying goodbye..its almost like an abortion..plus the other party needs to sign rights away to the child..may not happen...

I know that way too may people use abortion as a form of birth control..I do not agree with it..but I just think making a woman gothru a regnancy and delivery is just has psychologically damaging as an abortion..I don't think I could do that to someone

(if i sound again attacking..I am not..just a bit of a debate and if you want me to stop..Iwill :) )


Chesna

[Kalika]

Umm...ok...but again...you are still making a woman go through a pregnancy she doesn't want for a child she doesn't want and then have to go through labor and delivery and saying goodbye..its almost like an abortion..plus the other party needs to sign rights away to the child..may not happen...

I know that way too may people use abortion as a form of birth control..I do not agree with it..but I just think making a woman gothru a regnancy and delivery is just has psychologically damaging as an abortion..I don't think I could do that to someone

(if i sound again attacking..I am not..just a bit of a debate and if you want me to stop..Iwill :) )


Chesna

I told you my opinion wasn't popular. :)

It takes two to tango, and she is every bit as responsible as he is, and vice versa. If you don't take the measures to avoid pregnancy, and the two that were involved can't be in agreement regarding an abortion... it shouldn't happen.

If I didn't want a child, wanted to have an abortion, and the person that had helped me conceive that child didn't feel the same way - I wouldn't have the abortion. My body or not, it was my choice to have sex, just as much as his. I'm an adult, and I know the consequences of my actions. It wasn't my action alone that got me there, therefore it shouldn't be my decision alone to end what had been started. Just because a man can't get pregnant doesn't mean he doesn't suffer the effects of an abortion as well, and doesn't mean that his opinions should have more or less weight in the situation. And, what right is it of mine to say that my 50% judgement outweighs his just because I'd be the one carrying the child?

[WokeUpDead]

I think they should take a vote on it. The man gets one vote and the woman gets two. If any side can come up with a 2/3 majority then they win.

[Kalika]

...and yes, I feel the same way if its an "accident". :)

[wolf]

I think accident is a bad word in this context. After all, the man didn't just happen to fall from a third story window and land with his penis square in some random woman's vagina, did he?

"Without intent" or "with disregard to the consequences" I'll buy ... but come on, it's the 21st century. We now know beyond a reasonable doubt that sex results in pregnancy at least 7 - 14% (depending on age of the woman) of the time.

[Kalika]

I think accident is a bad word in this context. After all, the man didn't just happen to fall from a third story window and land with his penis square in some random woman's vagina, did he?

"Without intent" or "with disregard to the consequences" I'll buy ... but come on, it's the 21st century. We now know beyond a reasonable doubt that sex results in pregnancy at least 7 - 14% (depending on age of the woman) of the time.

:lol:

I agree. However... people still claim the "accident"... which is why I used the term. ;)

[LadyCanine]

All it all i think the situation has to be looked at. Also are we talking legally or morally?

I think if the two are married then it should be between both of them legally. I also think that if the women does not want the baby and the father does then possibly some sort of compensastion (sp?) should be established for the women.

All in all I do believe its the womens choice as its her body and she's the one that ends up with the majority of the responsibilities. The man could say o yeah i'll help then run off, or run off from the beginning, or stick around but never help or only be there and not actually 'there'

Granted also, when you have sex you usually know the possibilities and the things that could happen. Things should be talked about before it happens, but, that doesnt always happen either.

All in all i lean more to it being the womens choice, her body and more lay on the line for her than for the guy.

[Chesna]

I told you my opinion wasn't popular. :)

It takes two to tango, and she is every bit as responsible as he is, and vice versa. If you don't take the measures to avoid pregnancy, and the two that were involved can't be in agreement regarding an abortion... it shouldn't happen.

If I didn't want a child, wanted to have an abortion, and the person that had helped me conceive that child didn't feel the same way - I wouldn't have the abortion. My body or not, it was my choice to have sex, just as much as his. I'm an adult, and I know the consequences of my actions. It wasn't my action alone that got me there, therefore it shouldn't be my decision alone to end what had been started. Just because a man can't get pregnant doesn't mean he doesn't suffer the effects of an abortion as well, and doesn't mean that his opinions should have more or less weight in the situation. And, what right is it of mine to say that my 50% judgement outweighs his just because I'd be the one carrying the child?

:)

I would not say unpopular...just different and I respect that..
It seems that either way (how you look at it or how I lookat) someone isn't going to be happy. I still have a hard time demanding something of someone that has to do with their body...thats just not fair in my book..but I also see that women who have abortions and leave out the guy are doing wrong to..and I know guys hurt just as bad when an abortion happens...
I guess i just saw what happens when you make someone carry a baby to term and then give it away..my cousin got pregnant at 15 or 16..she wanted an abortion..my family being the X-tians they are talked her into not doing that but giving the baby up..all during that pregnancy she was depressed and withdrawn..and now after she has given the baby up..its worse..now i am not saying that if she had the abortion she would be all sunshine and skipping rope..but maybe she would of had a better time dealing with it....who knows..I don't..but I often wonder if some of her pain could of been avoided had she gotten her wishes??
It was due tothis event that got me to ask my questions Kalika..thanks for sharing your point of view!!

Chesna

[Kalika]

:)

I would not say unpopular...just different and I respect that..
It seems that either way (how you look at it or how I lookat) someone isn't going to be happy. I still have a hard time demanding something of someone that has to do with their body...thats just not fair in my book..but I also see that women who have abortions and leave out the guy are doing wrong to..and I know guys hurt just as bad when an abortion happens...
I guess i just saw what happens when you make someone carry a baby to term and then give it away..my cousin got pregnant at 15 or 16..she wanted an abortion..my family being the X-tians they are talked her into not doing that but giving the baby up..all during that pregnancy she was depressed and withdrawn..and now after she has given the baby up..its worse..now i am not saying that if she had the abortion she would be all sunshine and skipping rope..but maybe she would of had a better time dealing with it....who knows..I don't..but I often wonder if some of her pain could of been avoided had she gotten her wishes??
It was due tothis event that got me to ask my questions Kalika..thanks for sharing your point of view!!

Chesna

:hugz:

No problem. :p

It took me a long time to come to the conclusions I have... but, just because they're how I feel about it, doesn't mean I expect everyone else to feel that way. ;)

[Jolixte]

Warning: My opinion is highly unpopular with most people. :p

I think both parties should have equal say. After all, both are responsible for creating the life.

If both do not agree to an abortion, I don't think one should occur. (Now, rape eliminates this, for me. Under no circumstances do I think a woman should be forced to carry a baby that is the result of rape, unless she decides to do so.)

However, if one person wants the child, and the other doesn't - I think the person that wants the child should be responsible for raising it. And not harass the other person for money, involvement, etc.
Oh good, I don't have to type it all out. Ditto.^

[kardell]

When a person gets pregnant, who gets to decide what to do with the baby ?

hey we dont have to be pc about this one as far i as i know its only women that get pregnant!!!

it should be a joint decision but sadly most times the women is left to deal with it so in that case its her decision, utilmalty its her decision anyway.

[LadyKaty]

Well, it's like this.

My body, my choice.

I'm the one who would have to carry this child to term, should I choose to do so. It's my uterus, it's my decision.

Were I to get pregnant now (God forbid), I would likely have an early term abortion, and probably wouldn't really ask my husband his opinion. I do not want to have another child. And that's as far as it goes.

This opinion might be unpopular, but oh well. That's not my goal in life.

I have one child, and that's all the children I want to have. I don't need or want any more children. And that's why I am on birth control pills, and considering either Essure or tubal ligation. And why my husband is looking into vasectomy for himself. We don't want more children, but ultimately, it's my choice, and he even agrees with that.

[wolfjan1]

Apparently we STILL have not learned the way of RESPONSIBLE SAFE SEX! IF you cannot have responsible safe sex, ABSTAIN! Does this sound harsh? OF COURSE IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!
Rape is an act of violence, not an act of unrestrained passion. NO one should be forced to keep that baby if she does not feel able to do so. So many children of rape are emotionally and physically abused from the mother's eventual pain and anger. Adoption is a viable alternative, And I have seen it go well SO many times. But this war need not be fought over the man eventually owning the uterus. How backwards can we go?

[Philosophia]

My body, my choice...simple.

[wolf]

No, it's not simple. If it were simple there wouldn't be any need to debate the issue.

Yes, your body is yours, but the life you have 50% responsibility for is not yours, or even yours alone.

[HorseCrow]

Apparently we STILL have not learned the way of RESPONSIBLE SAFE SEX! IF you cannot have responsible safe sex, ABSTAIN! Does this sound harsh? OF COURSE IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!

While I agree with the basic statement of this (safe sex or no sex), it really isn't always that simple. Not only irresposible people get pregnant unplanned. Condoms can break, the pill can fail, diaphrams can fall out. I had a VERY responsible friend who got pregnant at 16 because the condom broke. She chose to have the baby, but had she chosen not to, I don't believe anyone should have had the right to force her to go through pregnancy and birth. So simply practicing safe sex won't make the problem go away, it just isn't that simple.

I believe that, ideally the man and woman would come to an agreement, thus making the decision equal parts man and woman. But if the two cannot come to an agreement, then I believe the woman has the final say. I know it is not a 100% fair, but they really cannot get to an agreement, then someone has to have the final word- and the woman being the one having to go through pregnancy and birth, I believe she is the one to have it. Being pregnant and giving birth is no small matter.

[Kalika]

While I agree with the basic statement of this (safe sex or no sex), it really isn't always that simple. Not only irresposible people get pregnant unplanned.

:wave:


I believe that, ideally the man and woman would come to an agreement, thus making the decision equal parts man and woman. But if the two cannot come to an agreement, then I believe the woman has the final say. I know it is not a 100% fair, but they really cannot get to an agreement, then someone has to have the final word- and the woman being the one having to go through pregnancy and birth, I believe she is the one to have it. Being pregnant and giving birth is no small matter.

:)

[Chesna]

No, it's not simple. If it were simple there wouldn't be any need to debate the issue.

Yes, your body is yours, but the life you have 50% responsibility for is not yours, or even yours alone.

I will agree with this once evolution or whatever has given males the ability to carry and birth a child..until then...to me (and only me) it's simple..my body..my choice..my hubby even agrees with me.

Chesna

[wolf]

Your example really doen't change anything. It's not just about you. Even if you (or your hypothetical male) were capable of parthenogenisis, you still maintain responsibility for the life you create, even if you choose to end that life.

[HorseCrow]

you still maintain responsibility for the life you create, even if you choose to end that life.

I beileve that is what she would be doing, by taking the full responsibility of making the final choice.

[wolf]

Plural "You," horsecrow, until women can get pregnant alone.

[HorseCrow]

Plural, ok. But how would you then solve the bind, if the two cannot come to an agreement at all? Let's say the man wants the baby, the woman wants an abortion, or the woman wants the baby, the man wants the abortion- and none of them will budge, there is simply no way of reaching an agreement. Then who has the final say?

[Tarbh Nathroch]

I believe it’s a family decision. Mostly the parents but it should be an immediate family topic to see who and what type of support is there for the parents of the child from their two families. One must know all their options with that kind of choice.

But, the woman herself has veto power and is the last word on all decisions, it is her body.

[Kalika]

Plural, ok. But how would you then solve the bind, if the two cannot come to an agreement at all? Let's say the man wants the baby, the woman wants an abortion, or the woman wants the baby, the man wants the abortion- and none of them will budge, there is simply no way of reaching an agreement. Then who has the final say?

I answered that question in my response, I believe. :)

If an agreement can't be reached, why shouldn't the person who wants the child - man or woman - be able to have it? However, if they want it - they should take full responsibility for it - and not press the other party for money, support, or involvement.

[HorseCrow]

Ah, ok :lol: I had understood it the other way round! My fault.

[Kalika]

Ah, ok :lol: I had understood it the other way round! My fault.

:hehehehe: