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Philosophia
June 4th, 2006, 09:46 PM
Does anybody practice Enochian magic?
What drew you to this path?
How did you begin?
What advice would you give to beginning students of Enochian magic?

Infinite Grey
June 6th, 2006, 06:41 PM
Me me me! John Dee kicks ass!

Alkhemia
June 6th, 2006, 06:55 PM
1. Yes, I practice Enochian Magick.

2. It started as an outgrowth of my early participation in the Golden Dawn. (But, the GD teachings on Enochian are pretty worthless, IMHO.)

3. I began by just doing work - I started making the Watchtower tablets, I started reading the late Ben Rowe's stuff and I went to a couple of events at Lon DuQuette's house.

4. Best advice? Read the primary material - don't rely on Don Tyson or the Schueler's to spoonfeed you their amusing "ideas." Geoffrey James' book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1567183670) is good, but start with John Dee's Five Books of Mystery (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1578631785/) and A True and Faithful Relation (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0766108120). Read one one the biographies of Dee (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0006552021) and his Monas Hieroglyphica (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0766147444).

Infinite Grey
June 6th, 2006, 10:51 PM
Okie now that I don't have be some where I can answer you OP for true



Does anybody practice Enochian magic?

No I don't practice Enochian magic, though I've studied it intensely... I do not believe it's the true magic John Dee was setting out... you see, old Johnny boy was first and foremost a Mathematician... and like many occultist of his time, he was interested (or perhaps obsessed) with Cryptography. There are a few people that infer that the texts regarding Enochian magic is actually a cipher hiding a deeper meaning... that isn't to say that Enochian magic isn't a valid practice, just that there is a deeper enlightenment to be had by studying it.

Bit like it's thought that Johannes Trithemius and Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa did the same thing with a lot of their works.

The meaning behind Enochian magic is still a mystery to me... (or at least, that's all I'm prepared to admit to ;) )


What drew you to this path?

Basically I found modern Occultist to be severely lacking, seemingly more concerned with making their works as ascetically pleasing as possible... often riddled with bitter agendas, or personal agendas... results of a consumer driven society... the older Occultist like John Dee had very little to gain from their studies, beyond the joy of knowledge.


How did you begin?

Why I tore the internet apart looking for any references before I invested any money into actually buy the Translations/reprints.


What advice would you give to beginning students of Enochian magic?

Keep an open and deligent mind. Leave your ego at the door.

Infinite Grey
June 6th, 2006, 10:55 PM
oh here's a few pdf versions of the books to get you started... ok I lied... I'll give you one _wedgie_

coeur
June 7th, 2006, 04:43 AM
1. No I don't practise it though I plan to practise it in the near-future after I complete my studies of the Goetia.

2. I'm interested in the spirit model of things and I do think that the spirit model of magic has a lot of merit that needs to be explored, especially by cocky chaos magicians like me who initially believed that it was all in your head. I was also attracted to the power of the names, which, supposedly, could cause severe harm to the magician should he/she read it or speak it aloud. The concept of 'powerful words' just interests me.

3. Basic Golden Dawn training and books on evokation. Of course, many books of various merit as well.

4. Banishing, though a pain in the arse, is often very useful.

David19
June 7th, 2006, 07:46 PM
I'm interested in learning about Enochian magic, but can someone tell me what it's actually about, like i know it deals with angels, but does it work with them like the Goetia works with demons e.g. do you bargin/worship/plead/ask/order/etc with angels to accomplish a task for you - like getting money, sex, etc, or is it something else.

Also, i've heard that in Enochian magic, you worship the angels and that they aren't all 'nice and fluffy' like the New Age authors would have you believe, is this true (and does anyone know of or have any bad experiences with angels).

Sorry is these sound like dumb questions, but i'm curious about it.

Thanks :).

Garm
June 8th, 2006, 01:43 AM
I stopped trying to learn the Enochian Keys, I was trying to memorize the calls, when I found my life was getting suddenly, unexpectedly incident prone, with frequent squabbles that stopped just short of fisticuffs.

I worked with the signs and sigils of John Dee's heptarchial system, an altogether mellower experience, which showed quick, quirky but unspectacular results, ie, called one of the angels to banish evil spirits, right afterwards the guy in the room next to me gets out of bed, he had a severe and ongoing issue with procrastination, and calls back a potential employer, secureing himself work for the day.

Alkhemia
June 8th, 2006, 03:57 PM
I'll play Devil's Advocate here...



Basically I found modern Occultist to be severely lacking, seemingly more concerned with making their works as ascetically pleasing as possible... often riddled with bitter agendas, or personal agendas... results of a consumer driven society... the older Occultist like John Dee had very little to gain from their studies, beyond the joy of knowledge.

By all accounts, Dee seems to have been an hornorable guy, but I question some of the romanticism you have for 'ye olde tymes of yore.' Edward Kelley certainly had quite a bit to gain by his studies and by fabricating his 'conversations' with the angels; a) Steady employment as Dee's skryer, b) Kelley got to have sex with Dee's attractive wife, Jane (per the communicaton Kelley received from Madimi and the contract Dee, Kelley and their respective wives signed on May 3, 1587) and c) Kelley used Dee's impressive library and political connections to further his own research into alchemy. In other words, personal agendas, bitter agendas and pandering to a consumer are not simply "modern" phenomena - they are a part of human nature and, one might argue, such traits have evolutionary benefits as well. While the Llewellyn junk may strive to appeal to a lowest common denominator market, there is actually some good stuff out there that isn't "aesthetically pleasing" or pandering to those with a 6th grade reading comprehension.

:rant:

Of course, Dee did risk quite a bit for his research into magic and mysticism - having his library burnt down, dying in poverty and, despite his real scientific accomplishments, he has beome a historical footnote. Still, an argument could be made that not a whole lot has changed - despite the preponderance of New Age gobeldygook. For instance, I'm in a non-occult-related grad school program - I can assure you that it would be a career-killer for me to publish a book on magic. A friend of mine, who has a PhD. and has written some occult-related books, cannot find a job because he/she is a well-known occult writer. His/Her former PhD. advisor has complained that the University should rescind his/her doctorate because the occult works tarnish the reputation of the school. I'll agree with you; a lot of crap is being published and, frankly, the occult 'community' has no one to blame but themselves. When $ilver Ravenwolf and Don Tyson's "Necronomicrap" are the top sellers, there's just no incentive to risk reputations and put good work out there.

:/rant:

Infinite Grey
June 8th, 2006, 09:04 PM
I'll play Devil's Advocate here...




By all accounts, Dee seems to have been an hornorable guy, but I question some of the romanticism you have for 'ye olde tymes of yore.' Edward Kelley certainly had quite a bit to gain by his studies and by fabricating his 'conversations' with the angels; a) Steady employment as Dee's skryer, b) Kelley got to have sex with Dee's attractive wife, Jane (per the communicaton Kelley received from Madimi and the contract Dee, Kelley and their respective wives signed on May 3, 1587) and c) Kelley used Dee's impressive library and political connections to further his own research into alchemy. In other words, personal agendas, bitter agendas and pandering to a consumer are not simply "modern" phenomena - they are a part of human nature and, one might argue, such traits have evolutionary benefits as well. While the Llewellyn junk may strive to appeal to a lowest common denominator market, there is actually some good stuff out there that isn't "aesthetically pleasing" or pandering to those with a 6th grade reading comprehension.


Oh I didn't say there wasn't an agenda there, but not really in the same sense as the modern occultist... though I have to admit that Kelley was a bit of a hack, but Dee wasn't... it was a tragedy that he basically lost everything... imagine what lost! For example, The Hieroglyphic Monad is largely incomplete in it's interpretation, but was held in high regard within his peers.

Though I'm sure that there may be some good modern stuff out there, I just don't care. The older stuff works well as source material for the most part, and the gaps aren't filled in with someone else's opinions.

SilverClaw
August 18th, 2006, 03:02 AM
Does anybody practice Enochian magic?
What drew you to this path?
How did you begin?
What advice would you give to beginning students of Enochian magic?



I started learning about Enochian Magick almost 11 or so years ago. I was drawn to this path because I wanted to understand at the time what my (then) boyfriend was talking about. I found it fascinating. And at our local Metaphysics store I found the Enochian Tarot and started studying.. However due to the fact I had little ritual experience (and the Tarot book stressing that you need to make sure you know what you are doing before you begin) I put the practice part of rituals on hold and continued to read and study.

And I am still studying and due to health I am not sure if I will be doing any ritual work still any time soon.

So advice to you or any one starting out research, read and study and practice when your absolutely sure you can handle doing so.

Humming Bird
October 5th, 2015, 04:53 AM
Does anybody practice Enochian magic?
What drew you to this path?
How did you begin?
What advice would you give to beginning students of Enochian magic?

I do, it is a big part of my praxis.

I'm going to credit the Golden Dawn with that one because despite the other sources out there I've been exposed to, they all make primary use of the four directional tablets and this is in credit to the work of the Golden Dawn, which brought them forth out of obscurity while providing a pathway compatible to the emerging operations of the era. I could give you all kinds of reasons why I love Enochian magick, or i can simply way that ceremonial magick is a polymath's art, and the enochian system is the poly-mathiest of the. The system is self-referring, and makes connections like my psyche makes connections.

It is misunderstood as well. it may be the Arc Linux of magic(k) being completely un-intuitive to most people on paper but in praxis it is very intuitive.
It is very raw, natural, alchemical and resonates deeply with internal and external processes. It is so close to the subtlety of what is, that upholds what we think it is.
the tablets are the concourse of forces, the logos, from which all stories of man and beast and god do arise. There's a power there, that sustains and exists between paradigms.
Quintessence flowing through the ley-lines of reality, becoming expressed as the myriad and seemingly contrary things yet it is the one thing. the miracle of the "one thing" and a revelation
of what enochian magick is, is to witness "the one thing".

It isn't just ceremonial for me, my understanding of "what is is" means that while it is something while requires the discipline and understanding of ceremonialism to work on that level, just as the magician becomes their magick so to are the tablets with me when I do my folk workings, my meditation, my journey work. So that when i am meditating and the tablets are around me, it interacts with the four-fold nature of myself, allowing for further emergence of that fifth-part, that "one thing" in the harmony of things.

in my journey work they are a representation and charge of the four worlds, the four watchtowers/mountains/trees and i can travel an one of them or ascend in balance among them as one and have greater alchemical control of the plane i go to.

in my folk workings, with my diction I mention the ceremonial colors of my people that I have attributed to the tablets. our medicine formulas reference our ceremonial round, the four-fold nature of things, tying into the cosmology, as to influence its course, the weaving it is continually doing. I do these things along with the the circle work that has been used with Enochian by groups such as the Golden Dawn.

It is hard to say exactly when I began. I've worked the standard model of Enochian as is generally presented and had much success with it. I've experimented with it a lot, looking at what others have figured and attempted to figure out. i also do my own thing though which rightfully may not be considered Enochian... and that's an important citation. I look at those tablets and i see a cosmology i've known for a long time, from my own background and that what i see, are those truths having coming through a psyche such as Dee's that was able to make those connections on some level in a way that he could process it consciously in a way many can't, or certainly not without the work. I see him constructing these tablets in accordance to his understanding of the underlying reality of things and i know that map. just as we use kamea and other squares, and sigils and all these things to do likewise...he did the same, yet on such a grand scale. I look at it, and see what is going on and i say to myself "this is a vessel, a vehicle" to do what we did in our (Cherokee) old ceremonies, he just uses different techniques than we did and has a somewhat unhealthy Christian bias which I would say held him back in many ways. So I use those techniques to strengthen, refine and explore the cosmological roadmap I already had, to make it more accessible and self referencing, to reconstruct faded pathways and as a tool to develop oneself like we did- much of the practices towards adeptships are gone. We know what things we were charged to develop, we know that fasting, certain herbs and such were used. We know we traveled those four mountains and some of us still do, we're still around. It was an oral tradition though, on a need to know basis and so why we know what to cultivate, what it was... prescribed praxis to get there... unless you have someone still in your family to guide you, you've got to figure it out for yourself.
It isn't making the connection though that is hard, it's traversing it all, developing the discipline and mental fortitude because as much as native peoples are romanticized, there's very dark aspects to our medicine tradition, and so you take that and then you figure in all the internalized patterns you see in native families from years of colonization, if the medicine comes naturally to you, it could drive you insane if you aren't taught how to take care of yourself.

This has been my work with Enochian, both personally and as a means now for establishing a pathway for others who have to contend with that.
it isn't Lon Milo's Enochian but we like eachothers stuff :p

I don't know how to describe to people what my praxis is these days. How to explain to them how it developed the way it did, which though they may not think so, happened very organically over time.
Like, i don't know that it would make sense to someone who hadn't traveled a similar path.
There is a lot of ceremonialism in what i do. there's also a lot of witchcraft and Appalachian tradition in there to.
Appalachian craft itself is a mixed bag of influences and means.
the Cherokee tradition is both very ceremonial and very folkish.
and you you have my brain amongst all of that....

My advice as to where to start might be to start somewhere else, other than Enochian.
it depends on where they are at and who they are.
If they are genuine, sincere and wanting to practice for the right reasons- because they need to be sure they really want what they are asking for with Enochian- and are willing to go through it.
Theirs is a soul i can work with.

Before they do anything practical though, I'm going to sit them down at the crossroads of the four tablets and have them explore and process where they are in that moment.
They'll have to become aware of their body, what it is telling them, what it is doing.
They'll have to become aware of their emotional body, what they are feeling, what is bringing forth those emotions.
They'll have to do the same for their thoughts.
They'll also have to find their inner spiritual fire, their core, and what fuels it.

If you can do that, that's a foundation.
the four main tools of ceremonial magick, they are extensions of this.
these are "the four powers of the sphinx" and the four Alchemical processes of "Nigredo, Albedo, Rubedo and Caeredo"
and if one develops this they know where they are at, and what it is they must do to achieve balance.

Enochian is for crucial pathworking, self-work and theurgy.
it isn't really for practical magic(k). It is all about pathworking
make sure where you want to go is where you need to go,
or you'll just be using Enochian to manifest hard obstacles and lessons.
there are ways to use the Enochian cosmology and hierarchy in folk practices-
but being able to do that really comes after going through it.

don't do it if you've got such an outer locus that you feel as if you have no control and are going to get what controls you to go your way.
To change the external one has to first mastery the internal struggle, it takes an inner locus to be able to affect the outer in ways that seem miraculous.

so I'd have them sit down in the middle of the tablets, i recommend Padmasana (lotus) and observe the thoughts and feeling, desires and bodily sensations coming into their perceivable awareness.
have them cultivate that, to become aware of what they are telling themselves as to form a relationship with the four parts. eventually the meditative state will be with them to a agree day to day.
They will start observing themselves observing, and will be able to do for themselves what others can not do for them. Then have them focus on the space between thoughts, between emotions, a void just long enough for deeper messages to occupy. There, when the four-fold nature is blossoming, and they appear to into the abyss between the myriad things they'll find their coyote, their shadow, whom is another aspect of their light/spirit. The trickster is brother and confidant to the bringer of enlightenment.

And while they are doing this, if they would take to ceremonial magick. Have them learn the rituals of the pentagram working their way up to the supreme ritual of the pentagram which works with the tablets.

See i've of the opinion that Ceremonial magick isn't what most think it is, or at least it shouldn't be. it shouldn't be just going through the motions. it should be "pull lever, hit button and x happens". Nothose "motions" are like asanas and mudras and when you intone names of power your doing something to your being and the space you are in. Magick is correspondence and outer form needs to resonate with an inner state. yoga is outward meditation and meditation is inward yoga and magick is the marriage of the two with the effect of the cause set to manifest either internally or within but, but in true... both.

That's the kind of path I feel someone needs to be on before they go messing with Enochian.
i know others will strongly disagree, with my approach to Enochian being very different.

just as the working tools are representations of you, the tablets are both you and the providence of each world..
so when i'm facing the Watchtower of the East, stationed there is that quarter of my self, the circle is the full round of my psyche.
Just as the four tablets make the great tablet, the four quarters make a great circle.
there's a squaring of the circle there, and outer and inner synthesis. Heaven and Earth.
Cyclar and linear time, temporal and atemporal, and I'm communing with the parts of myself that experience reality differently,
and in the highest sense of it all, the part of me that doesn't experience time.

it is like looking at the self and all of existence as a fourfold prism, and in each beam is reflected each of the four.
and when all parts of the stage and story come together, an experience of the providential writer emerges,
That's not to say I'm a theist like many are the theist either, or that i think this implies some right way or will of this one thing we should follow... it's not like that in my view.
it is more like being one with the Tao, and the intelligence of it that can be named isn't the internal intelligence.
It is like seeing it come into existence though, the miracle of the "Nous" the self aware and self-contemplative being"
Life, then, and the fire that is its flag, and the winged serpent of gnosis, this is my god.
Every paradigm, every story comes out of that fire, like shadows, light and smoke.

My brand of Enochian does look at the Watchtowers as they are very much understood in witchraft and the stories of Azazel and the watchers play a part in that worldview.
so to do the divine twins, Lucifer and Hesperus. My path is very much an existential path and my work with Enochian shows this. And then there are the Thunderers, the name for the beings in cherokee mythos that one would call the Watchers/Watchtowers.

i would say that as technical as Enochian can be, it resonates with me because at its core, i would argue is the notion that Truth, "the big 'IT'" is a union of and therefore beyond the objective and the subjective.
This may not be apparent when reading about Enochian, with so many things regarding Enochian much is left unsaid and you are left to figure it out for yourself. One thing I have found out is that people either love enochian or they just can't make useful sense of it. It is like working with your H.G.A (Holy Guardian Angel), I can tell you why it is a good thing, how to go about getting in touch with it... but it isn't that simple and I can't tell you what your fruit will be other than you'll be working on the fruit your suppose to be working on. I can't tell you "this is how it will change your life" other than, it will and you'll be on the right track. Enochian is like that. When you get into it, really engage it and come to understand what your working with... your going to figure yourself out. That's what Enochian does, by picking at it you pick at yourself, the nature of your perceptions of the world.... your end-system and philosophy of Enochian should be different than someone elses, or else you aren't really doing it.

And you have to do it for the love it itself because if your just looking to accomplish some simple mundane thing, call it x, you'll do it and then wont go any further, you'll only scratch the system.
a system I wish more practitioners would engage even though no, it is not for everybody... but it will meet you where you are if you let it.
it doesn't have to be in a circle..... go to a cave and vibrate the name of the gatekeeper for the Tablet of Earth, or to a lake and do so for the tablet of water.
vibrate the names as something like a mantra in meditation.

And if you want to see what it is they do, sit down at the cross-roads between them like i said before, in padmasana (lotus) but this time keep your eyes open, instead looking into a candle flame which is dead-center of the tablets and observe it. You can use a crystal ball or black-mirror but also try the fire at some point. It's about the emergence of that fith part, the sacred-fire come into the heart of man. very Promethean, very Luciferian. In own telling Lucifer was the sun of the dawn, in others he is the son of the four winds. both of these stories are true.