What constitutes an accomplished magician?

[Infinite Grey]

I've been doing my usual occult butterfly impersonation, fluttering from site to site, book review to book review, concept to concept and one thing I hear mention of is the "accomplished magician" or witch, or mage, magi, pogostick champion...

I was wondering, how do magic users measure their success rate? Accomplished indicates a certain level of success, well, a high level of success. Yet, often there is little proof of success... not to say they're not, but it's not something one can easily prove.

I've noticed that there are quite a few books written by self proclaimed accomplished magic users, but do they truly have credibility? Does writing a book make one an accomplished magic user? Scholars have to meet a certain criteria to be considered accomplished, as do businessmen, Catholic Priests, plumbers... you name it... But in the world of witches and other forms of magic type peoples, there doesn't seem to be a gauge.

So... how do you define someone as an accomplished magician, witch, mage, magi, pogostick champion?

[Rudas Starblaze]

i think you hit the nail on the head.

write a book, and your automatically an accomplished magician. get a spot on a tv show, your one step up from that. get your own 1-900 numer, your unstopable. and if you pay for all the books and call the 1-900 numbers, you are sure to on your way to succes as an accomplished magician:lol:


in my opinion. what makes an accomplished magician or whatever is none of the above. keeping it to yourself and letting your abilities show for themselves is what really counts. i dont think its honestly measurable and those who say it is, are full of crap.

as for the art of the great pogostick... well, numbers speak for themselves!:lol:

[Infinite Grey]

I guess no one else can put their finger on it... maybe it's safe to assume that self-promotion = accomplished magic user... sweet! I'm so going to write a book!

[Malcolm]

I was gonna say fireballs...

[Infinite Grey]

I was gonna say fireballs...

oooo I can make fireballs!! I would show you... but ummm... the moon isn't in the right position... and... I have a hangnail... yeah... BUT I DID IT ONCE!

[CelticMoon11]

For me I'd say someone who is accomplished would be an extremely knowledgable individual who has learnt that no one can ever truely be "accomplished" because it would take lifetimes of learning and practice to get anywhere near it, and that the need to be classified as "accomplished" is trivial and a self absorbed concept..

Or they're related to Jean Grey :lol:

[Philosophia]

I don't think there is such a term as "accomplished magician" because it implies that you're above everybody else and not still learning and experiancing different avenues of "magic".

[RhiannynWildseed]

i think you hit the nail on the head.

write a book, and your automatically an accomplished magician. get a spot on a tv show, your one step up from that. get your own 1-900 numer, your unstopable. and if you pay for all the books and call the 1-900 numbers, you are sure to on your way to succes as an accomplished magician:lol:


in my opinion. what makes an accomplished magician or whatever is none of the above. keeping it to yourself and letting your abilities show for themselves is what really counts. i dont think its honestly measurable and those who say it is, are full of crap.

as for the art of the great pogostick... well, numbers speak for themselves!:lol:


I like this answer. I totally agree with it 100% (even the part about the pogostick!). It seems like so many these days are self-proclaimed masters or "accomplished" whatevers. I mean, it's not like the video games where you reach a certain number of points and suddenly there's a flashing neon sign saying "Level Up!"

I prefer to judge for myself. Like with my husband. He probably isn't what anyone would consider a "master" tarot reader, but I've watched him do countless readings and 99.9% of the time, he's dead on. It's scary (and he's scared some people with his accuracy). But he doesn't go around touting his ability. I would call him accomplished, but someone else might not.

What annoys me is when people try to convince you of someone's...well, for lack of a better word...superiority. I hate when someone says "So-and-so is so great...they can see into your soul! They are just so all powerful and mighty!" Blah! I don't buy it. To me, that just makes so-and-so sound like a great used car salesperson.

Eh, just imho though.

[coeur]

Frankly, I would expect an 'accomplished magician' to have had very good successes. Let's face it, magic is practised because it works. Thus, obviously, one would expect an 'accomplished magician' to have a good number successful experiences. I would definitely put practising under the list of attributes necessary. After all, you're not even a magician, much less an 'accomplished magician' if you don't even practise magic.

Other traits could include curiosity, experimentation, boldness, learning... I don't think that magic is static and I don't think that we, as humans, know even a fraction of how the Universe actually works. Magicians, especially successful magicians, work to firstly understand the Universe in greater depth and to secondly take that knowledge and manipulate the Universe to their advantage. There is an obviously active ingredient of 'doing' and 'finding' in the title of magician. You can't just sit around all day reading the Goetia and be a good magician.

[morningstar2651]

I've been doing my usual occult butterfly impersonation, fluttering from site to site, book review to book review, concept to concept and one thing I hear mention of is the "accomplished magician" or witch, or mage, magi, pogostick champion...

I was wondering, how do magic users measure their success rate? Accomplished indicates a certain level of success, well, a high level of success. Yet, often there is little proof of success... not to say they're not, but it's not something one can easily prove.

I've noticed that there are quite a few books written by self proclaimed accomplished magic users, but do they truly have credibility? Does writing a book make one an accomplished magic user? Scholars have to meet a certain criteria to be considered accomplished, as do businessmen, Catholic Priests, plumbers... you name it... But in the world of witches and other forms of magic type peoples, there doesn't seem to be a gauge.

So... how do you define someone as an accomplished magician, witch, mage, magi, pogostick champion?I don't think there is a single standard that could apply to any magician or witch. As for success rate, I'd say it depends on the workings and operations. As a bare minimum, I'd estimate a 75% success rate with few or no abject failures.

[Infinite Grey]

But how to determine the success? Should there be credible witnesses to these successes? Or take their word for it?

[Malcolm]

But how to determine the success? Should there be credible witnesses to these successes? Or take their word for it?


Fireballs, man I'm tellin ya, noone can deny the effects of a fireball...

[plumedsnake]

What about short lived 'successes' that then backfire disastrously. For instance a Love spell that gets you the girl. The relationship is very intense for a week, but then she ends it and it feels like the spell is still working but only on you because you become the most distraught love sick clown the world has ever seen.

Would that be counted as a magical success?

[wolf]

Success for a ceremonial magician is not being consumed by any demons or otherworldly beings.

[Dio]

But how to determine the success? Should there be credible witnesses to these successes? Or take their word for it?

I wouldn't take the the word of anyone proclaiming to be an expert in anything.

The success of other's shouldn't have any bearing on you anyway. Base your opinion of others on how they conduct themselves. Not by what they say, but by their actions. If it smells like bullshit, it probably is.

[David19]

I think a magician can be called successful if you actually see the effects of their magic, not just taking their 'word for it', as you should be sceptical (to an extent) of people's claims.

I think with very successful magicians/mages, i've heard you can feel their mystical power, and you'll just 'know' they are powerful, with mystical/supernatural forces, like their was one author i read about, he's a British guy, although right now, i can't remember his name, i'll try and post it later, but i've heard that whenever you did something magical/mystical with him, you could not deny his power.

[Garm]

The so called power is not quantifiable.

The ability to magically effect circumstances needs to go hand in hand with the intuition that tells you that the situation at hand is open to manipulation. In fact you can score a one hundred percent sucsses rate on the basis of precognition and nothing else.

Avoiding spells that you know will fail is not a good indication of actual power, but you can pass it off as such to the plebs who don't know any better.

[Grimr]

One can not truely call themselves wise in anything unless they can master their own mind and senses.

Of any priest or person of wisdom there is always the constant journey.

There are those who are walking ahead in the journey , but in the end self expirience and mastery of yourself is what only counts.

Even the best of all accounts in wisdom all people will face the tribulations of death just like everyone else.

Everyone is equal in the journey.

Some more expirienced , but in the end death discriminates noone.

[jcldragon]

The first step lies in developing an understanding of the Laws of Nature, & the Universe. The second step lies in learning how to apply those insights in a practical way that brings results. The third step lies in teaching others how to do, what you've figured out.

A person who understand how the Universe operates, and lives in harmony with the Universe, has power that comes from within, and has no need for power over other people. A real Teacher, shows people the means for accomplishing this on their own, so that they need not be dependent upon them or anything else, for Realization of the Divine. Accept the presense of the Divine within, and you will see it working its way through everything, and everyone. Give that Gift to others, and you will have accomplished the greatest Magick of all.

[Grimr]

The first step lies in developing an understanding of the Laws of Nature, & the Universe. The second step lies in learning how to apply those insights in a practical way that brings results. The third step lies in teaching others how to do, what you've figured out.

A person who understand how the Universe operates, and lives in harmony with the Universe, has power that comes from within, and has no need for power over other people. A real Teacher, shows people the means for accomplishing this on their own, so that they need not be dependent upon them or anything else, for Realization of the Divine. Accept the presense of the Divine within, and you will see it working its way through everything, and everyone. Give that Gift to others, and you will have accomplished the greatest Magick of all.

Indeed to teach others is always the last greatest accomplishment.

I hope to have some children at some point and teach them.

[coeur]

Well of course what is 'success' is questionable, and, of course, quite forgeable. However, taking away the element of trickery and dishonesty here, success is, in short, whether or not you recieve what you have asked for. Every spell has a goal (hopefully a specific one), and, when that goal is realized, regardless of any backlash that comes after, it is counted as success.

A backlash is a lesson, in my opinion, usually something that says "oh snap, you shouldn't have done that." However, that doesn't change the fact that you DID do it and it DID work. In fact, I feel like most accomplished magicians need to have experienced quite a lot of backlashes because that's how they know what not to do and what to do.

Fearlessness and courage figure very much into my ideals of a magician because without courage, how the hell are you supposed to get anywhere, especially in the occult? As Spare believed, magic is 100% successful when you are willing enough to die for your cause and to gamble your life on the existence of magic. Now that, require courage. Of course, being courageous often leads you down quite a few sketchy back alleys, probably full of people who want to sell your organs on the black market.

You can't expect to get through a life with magic without coming out with a few scrapes/scars/gaping wounds. That's really not how magical advancement works. If you are not willing to sacrifice something, then you really are not entitled to any progress ever. But of course, why be pessimistic about it and come up with some depressing idiom like "No pain, no gain?"

I much rather prefer: "Getting punched in the gut never gets old."