Death - what happens?

[Iris]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. A family member passed away and, well...I wanna know what you guys think happens when someone dies. I believe in reincarnation...but, I mean...you can't re-incarnate FOREVER, right? Do you eventually reach a stage of enlightenment where reincarnation becomes unneccessary, and if so...then what happens? Do we just...dissipate into thin air? Or do we go to some other place...? I know some pagans believe in a place called 'The Summerlands' - but how does that gel with the theory of reincarnation?

*confused*

[seekerofknwoledge]

It is my personal belief that you can have both reicarnation and a "heaven" (Summerlands for some, Elysium for me). I believe that when I die I will be reincarnated for a time, basically until I am ready to return to my Gods (I don't know exactly what ready means). There I will spend time with them either for forever or until I am obliged to return to life again (which I see as more of a choice rather than a punishment).

[Toby Stimpson]

Death is a mystery...perhaps the greatest mystery. I believe in Reincarnation...but apart from that I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. There may be nothing, thats why to use the time now is important to me :).

[Vincent Verthaine]

You stop living.
You go on to your next existance or lack of.
I personally have timeshares on several afterlifes.
I am on the Premium Erisian Afterlife Plan.
Costly,but very well worth it.
I've been saving up for the "Mega-rockstar who makes tons of money,dates supermodels,and dies at age 29 from his own drug induced vomit" plan for my life.
Sometimes it's nice to splurge on a lifetime when you believe in reincarnation.

[RhiannynWildseed]

One of my husband's first mentors had an interesting theory, well, I don't even know if you'd call it that since he never verbalized it, just kind gave my husband the impression that it was his theory.

He believed that we reincarnate and live 1 lifetime each as 1 of the signs of the zodiac starting with Aries and moving through Pisces. He believed that if you messed up one of your signs...didn't learn the lesson that you were supposed to learn that life, that you would have to repeat that sign until you learned your lesson.

He was a Pisces, and one day he just looked at my husband and said "I'm not coming back anymore." My husband asked him what he meant, and that is basically what he told my husband. What is really funny is I don't think he was Pagan.

But this actually makes a lot of sence to me. I don't know, but it just gives me a good vibe thinking about it. Anyway, I'm a Pisces, and I constantly just have the feeling of "been there, done that" like I've been around forever. I mean, I physically don't feel old...but mentally, I just feel like I'm ancient. It's hard to describe, but there you have it.

[fangedeshana]

Well, I believe in reincarnation. Here is my theory. I apologise in advance if this isnt coherent - it's been a long day.

I believe to begin with we are pure energy, neutral. We come from the source that moves the universe and are placed into a vessel to learn. I think we incarnate as many times as it takes as to reach 'enlightenment'. I also think you learnt a lot more than one lesson in a lifetime.

I believe once the body dies, the soul leaves the body and is take to a healing place where is recouperates from the shock and trauma of death and reflects on the knowlegde gained from life. They spirit also visits the living, learning in the spiritual plane, or perhaps families for closure as part of the healing process. Once the spirit is ready to move on, a fraction is left with the Source containing it's 'memory bank', and the remaining is reborn into a new vessel. We can access this memory bank when we expand our perception and connect with this vast network of knowledge and energy out there.

Once a soul reaches enlightenment I believe it is either returned to the earth, to be used as needed, or progresses to a Spirit Guide, and from there on, progresses through various stages, fulfilling various needs and purposes.

I think that sums it up as simply put as I can manage at the momment...

[Greyharp]

As Galadraal said, it's a mystery. What I find interesting is that near death experiences from around the world often reflect the religious beliefs of the individual's culture. So Christians often have heaven and hell-type experiences, believers in reincarnation have experiences matching those beliefs, etc. Any idea we come up with to explain it will remain unprovable theory, until it happens to us. I'm looking forward to it (though I'm in no hurry), should be a great adventure.

[fangedeshana]

What I find interesting is that near death experiences from around the world often reflect the religious beliefs of the individual's culture. So Christians often have heaven and hell-type experiences, believers in reincarnation have experiences matching those beliefs, etc. Any idea we come up with to explain it will remain unprovable theory, until it happens to us. I'm looking forward to it (though I'm in no hurry), should be a great adventure.

I really find that interesting. My near death experience didn't reflect my personal beliefs at all, but I know of others who have had experiences and it has convinced them, even more strongly that their faith is correct, as it has in some way confirmed what they believed.

EDIT: Oh, and on the Summerlands question... I believe it's a Wiccan belief (that is where I learnt it, and there is nothing to say it doesnt co-exist in another belief system, even older than Wicca) and its often refered to as the resting play your spirit goes while waiting to be re-incarnated, and then when you reach the end of your incarnations, you return to the God and Goddess... or so when the story as I was taught. It would differ, I would imagine, from person to person, tradition to tradition, ever so slightly.

[-Sky-]

I was tormented by the same question when my father died about 5 years ago.And those questions actually got me started in my spiritual journey.

As someone stated,Death is a mystery.For me it is also sacred and a necessary stage of the cycle of existance.It is not to be feared but it is always painful for those left behind.I can never be sure of what exactly happens after we die,but i believe one thing very strongly:that the spirit is not lost,it doesn't vanish.As a young child i understood and believed that more than my mother or my other relatives.

Now my theory about death is the same as fangedeshana's. And i also believe that some souls reincarnate,some souls stay near the Divine energy and some others become Guardian Spirits.

[cheddarsox]

My near death experience didn't confirm the faith I was living at the time (Christianity), but it did confirm some things I always suspected from experience.

I felt like I was being taken into the "Great OKness". Everything was like a grey mist, and it was OK, and OK was awesome, not adrenalin high awesome, but so amazingly OK, that it was better than awesome. it just was.

It was hard to come back after that. I went through a depression, because I don't feel OK here as much as I would like.

My present faith is helping me connect with the fact that it really is OK, even here, even now, when I let myself see and experience it.

so, I guess my near death experience confirmed by present faith! Hmm, coincidence...i think not.

I think that after we die, we stop being the individual that we are experiencing ourselves as now. I don't believe in an afterlife, I believe I will be absorbed body and spirit into WHAT IS.

cheddar

[Philosophia]

One of my husband's first mentors had an interesting theory, well, I don't even know if you'd call it that since he never verbalized it, just kind gave my husband the impression that it was his theory.
He believed that we reincarnate and live 1 lifetime each as 1 of the signs of the zodiac starting with Aries and moving through Pisces. He believed that if you messed up one of your signs...didn't learn the lesson that you were supposed to learn that life, that you would have to repeat that sign until you learned your lesson.
He was a Pisces, and one day he just looked at my husband and said "I'm not coming back anymore." My husband asked him what he meant, and that is basically what he told my husband. What is really funny is I don't think he was Pagan.
But this actually makes a lot of sence to me. I don't know, but it just gives me a good vibe thinking about it. Anyway, I'm a Pisces, and I constantly just have the feeling of "been there, done that" like I've been around forever. I mean, I physically don't feel old...but mentally, I just feel like I'm ancient. It's hard to describe, but there you have it.

I've heard of that theory before. One of my friends (who was a pisces) thought like this. I think it came from an astrologer, I can't remember the name though.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but its an interesting theory.

[-Sky-]

One of my husband's first mentors had an interesting theory, well, I don't even know if you'd call it that since he never verbalized it, just kind gave my husband the impression that it was his theory.

He believed that we reincarnate and live 1 lifetime each as 1 of the signs of the zodiac starting with Aries and moving through Pisces. He believed that if you messed up one of your signs...didn't learn the lesson that you were supposed to learn that life, that you would have to repeat that sign until you learned your lesson.

He was a Pisces, and one day he just looked at my husband and said "I'm not coming back anymore." My husband asked him what he meant, and that is basically what he told my husband. What is really funny is I don't think he was Pagan.

But this actually makes a lot of sence to me. I don't know, but it just gives me a good vibe thinking about it. Anyway, I'm a Pisces, and I constantly just have the feeling of "been there, done that" like I've been around forever. I mean, I physically don't feel old...but mentally, I just feel like I'm ancient. It's hard to describe, but there you have it.

This is a very interesting theory!And i would want to research it more!
But it contradicts my cosmotheory,my whole theory about my past lifes and how i was created.I am a Gemini in this life which means that i am in my third life but i've lived many lifes.
But..now that i am thinking about it maybe i got stuck in being a Gemini for many lifes if i didn't learn my lesson.I'll give it some thought!

[Wytchie]

Personally, I believe that when I die I will go to the Summerlands for a time, to rest and to reflect on what I have learned in this life, and that when I feel ready I will be reincarnated to learn the next lesson I need to learn.

I suppose ultimately I believe that once all lessons we can learn in this world are learned, I will either remain in the Summerlands, or travel on to a different place or plane or whatever to continue my journey, but to be honest I haven't worked out yet which of those I think, probably at this point though I'm leaning towards the latter.

Having said that, I also believe that sometimes people who come back from the Summerlands (or maybe someplace else, who knows?) do so not only because they may have lessons to learn, or they may not have any lessons to learn at all, they come back in order to help others to advance along their path. They know that they are able to give knowledge or support or whatever in order to help these others on their journeys, and so return to "help out"...if that makes sense...The way I view it is that those further along in their journeys sometimes come back to help those of us lagging behind a bit I suppose lol

I hope these mad ramblings make at least a bit of sense...lol

[Iris]

One of my husband's first mentors had an interesting theory, well, I don't even know if you'd call it that since he never verbalized it, just kind gave my husband the impression that it was his theory.

He believed that we reincarnate and live 1 lifetime each as 1 of the signs of the zodiac starting with Aries and moving through Pisces. He believed that if you messed up one of your signs...didn't learn the lesson that you were supposed to learn that life, that you would have to repeat that sign until you learned your lesson.

He was a Pisces, and one day he just looked at my husband and said "I'm not coming back anymore." My husband asked him what he meant, and that is basically what he told my husband. What is really funny is I don't think he was Pagan.

But this actually makes a lot of sence to me. I don't know, but it just gives me a good vibe thinking about it. Anyway, I'm a Pisces, and I constantly just have the feeling of "been there, done that" like I've been around forever. I mean, I physically don't feel old...but mentally, I just feel like I'm ancient. It's hard to describe, but there you have it.

I'm a Pisces...I've never heard this theory before...interesting. I too tend to feel quite weary sometimes, like I've been through many successive lifetimes. And I'm only 21. lol. Even as a kid people would comment that I 'Acted old' and was '7, going on 70.' Hmmm. Interesting :)

[Meadhbh]

I think you reincarnate was often as you want. After you feel that you've gotten all your going to get out of the world, or your just bored with it you head off to which ever of the otherworlds you like and stay there for a while, and move on to another if thats your wish or stay there forever. Depending on how you feel about the place.

[Silver Nightfire]

I believe in reincarnation, and that when I die, my soul (or essence, energy, what ever you want to call it) will be somewhat 'recycled' and used over and over again, living many lives in different bodies, different living things. And once my soul has been 'recycled' enough times, it will return to the ultimate Divine, where it will rest and take refuge, for however long. Then, after a long or short time, my soul will find its way to another living body, and the cycle will start again.

[Psycmoe]

The only way one can truely know what happens after death is to die. Until then, it's all speculation. I have to believe that everyone gets exactly as they deserve; otherwise I'd be dangerously vengeful.

[David19]

I think you reincarnate was often as you want. After you feel that you've gotten all your going to get out of the world, or your just bored with it you head off to which ever of the otherworlds you like and stay there for a while, and move on to another if thats your wish or stay there forever. Depending on how you feel about the place.

I think i agree with your beliefs, if we reincarnate, i don't think it's to 'work out karmic debts' or just 'learn lessons', i think we can reincarnate for whatever reason we want - whether we have 'unfinished' business, just like the earth plane/realm, etc.

But, i do believe in other realms/planes, and i think worshippers of different gods will go to one of their gods realms e.g. a Christian/Jew/Muslim/etc might go to heaven or hell, Asatruer or Heathen will go to one of the Norse gods halls, a Sumerian reconstructionist will go to the Sumerian underworld, Hellenic reconstructionist will go to Hades, etc.

[RhiannynWildseed]

I'm a Pisces...I've never heard this theory before...interesting. I too tend to feel quite weary sometimes, like I've been through many successive lifetimes. And I'm only 21. lol. Even as a kid people would comment that I 'Acted old' and was '7, going on 70.' Hmmm. Interesting :)

Lol, yep. When I was younger, I never really tried to make friends with people my own age. (I still don't really...except for a rare few..but they are Pisceans like me.) I always gravitated towards adults. People my own age just weren't mature enough for me. *shrugs*

When I turned 18 and graduated, I started dating my husband, who was almost 2x my age. Of course my family wasn't happy about it, but we got married anyway. I could have intelligent conversations with him without getting the "dog-hearing-high-pitched-noise" look (you know..that head tilt to the side) that I got from my ex-boyfriends.

[Morr]

I believe when you die, your spirit/soul goes to the Summerland to rest, reflect and have some time off.

When the Universe/Gods see it fit for your soul to reincarnate into a new life, they call you and you are sent.

Once the cycle of reincarnation is over, for a soul, I believe it reaches a level of enlightenment, "graduates" so to speak from this level of spirituality and development, and then goes on to become a Spirit Guide or Guardian of sort to those souls who are growing still in the Physical and earthly world.

Once you're done with that, you reach a newer level of enlightenment, etc.

Just graduating little levels or going up step by step until you have learned what you needed to learn and gain experience in, till you can return to the Summerland (or Heaven, etc, whatever floats anyone's boat) and rest.

But that takes very very very long. I dont think its easily achieved. If it were easy, on any level and through any step of the way, it wouldnt be fun ;)

[fangedeshana]

The only way one can truely know what happens after death is to die. Until then, it's all speculation. I have to believe that everyone gets exactly as they deserve; otherwise I'd be dangerously vengeful.

I think everyone already knows that anything after death is speculation. I think the point of the post was just for different theories people have of what they believe might happen after death.

[Tanya]

I believe in the carbon cycle.

You die.

You rot, there is no reincarnation but through magical the chemical cycles all around us, you come back, as a flower, a worm, a pill bug, as all of it diffused.


There is no abiding consiousness. Our concousness is a function of our lives lived and bodies we were born into and is a small part of the universial consiousness of all life.

I hope to have a happy conscioness as a blade of grass, a kangaroo, or yellow box tree if I'm lucky.

[Shanti]

Whatever you want to happen will happen. You are your spirit and you know what you will do next. Its just hard to hear your spirit self when your in a physical realm. Dont worry, you will do whatever, where ever, you are meant to and need to. Have faith in you. :)

Thats how I see it. :)

[PeatBog]

My thoughts are that one's spirit, as an energy, joins a universal energy, then possibly rebirths or reincarnates sometime. Here's a website that describes the Celtic beliefs regarding the Otherworld:

http://d21c.com/selkywolf/celtic/otherworld.html

Celtic Rebirth vs Reincarnation

It is important to note that the Celts did not believe in reincarnation, but rather in rebirth. One might also view rebirth as rejuvenation through Undry cauldron. The Celts literally believed in immortality, either through living out ones after life in the Otherworld or being restored to life through the magikal Cauldron of Plenty. This is not the same thing as reincarnation.

[Grimr]

Human beings are made out of atoms just like every other particle or object.

Atoms can not be destroyed only changed so it is my view that such occurences of death are nothing more then change.

In my belief I will face the God Hades to live in the realm of Elysium.

I will enjoy tranquility,peace and prosperity.

In death there is the chance of reincarnation I believe too.

[Philosophia]

In my path, death is a transitional phase in the cycle of life. Since we are a complex fusion of energy, it can’t be destroyed so we simply enter back into the world. This energy can be used within another person or some other being (living or artificial). Its how this world exists and is never ending. Sometimes the energy holds imprints of past incarnations or it can be completely blank.

[Grimr]

In my path, death is a transitional phase in the cycle of life. Since we are a complex fusion of energy, it can’t be destroyed so we simply enter back into the world. This energy can be used within another person or some other being (living or artificial). Its how this world exists and is never ending. Sometimes the energy holds imprints of past incarnations or it can be completely blank.

True we all have the lifeforce energy like every living organism and the will to live.

It is my belief we shall all transcend to some plain where our own individual soul takes us.

[jcldragon]

I recall past incarnations going back to well before recorded history. In the early 1970s I went to visit several different Akashic Record readers. Without prompting any of them with who I thought I had been, they all came up with the same set of most prominent past lifetimes. So they independently confirmed each other.

The lifetimes you recall first, will always be the ones that have the most bearing upon what you are doing now. Next you will remember some favorites. The Soul exists simultaneously throughout all of time. The Ego merely exists now. With each incarnation, you grow a new Ego to interface between your Soul, and the Material World. The Ego (personality) dies along with the body between incarnations, but the experiences are retained by the Soul. Basic abilities & skills are always carried over. That's why people pick up certain things very quickly in a new incarnation : they've done it before.

The degree of Enlightenment, allows one to have more control over what their next incarnation will be starting out. Karma & Momentum are the primary determining factors. Momentum will place you in a situation similar to what you have been moving toward, and Karma will balance out excesses. After Enlightenment, a person will reincarnate consciously, basicly knowing who they have been, and what they are here to do, from the beginning, although they will still have to grow a new Ego for that incarnation, and also spend the childhood years teaching their new body how to develop & operate in the Material World, while opening up the energy centers to connect their new mortal Ego with the eternal Soul.

The time between incarnations varies, because there is much to absorb & think through between incarnations, but the minimum time between, seems to be about 3 1/2 days. The Soul does not connect fully to a new body until the moment of birth. (Women's right to choose, anybody?) You are not merely a physical body, nor are you a mortal Ego. Those are things you wear around your Soul, and you change them with each new lifetime.

[-Sky-]

I recall past incarnations going back to well before recorded history. In the early 1970s I went to visit several different Akashic Record readers. Without prompting any of them with who I thought I had been, they all came up with the same set of most prominent past lifetimes. So they independently confirmed each other.

The lifetimes you recall first, will always be the ones that have the most bearing upon what you are doing now. Next you will remember some favorites. The Soul exists simultaneously throughout all of time. The Ego merely exists now. With each incarnation, you grow a new Ego to interface between your Soul, and the Material World. The Ego (personality) dies along with the body between incarnations, but the experiences are retained by the Soul. Basic abilities & skills are always carried over. That's why people pick up certain things very quickly in a new incarnation : they've done it before.



I really like your opinion.What impressed me is how you explain the fact that the Ego of each life is destroyed but the Soul remains.It makes much sense and it explains why we may not be the same as our previous re-incarnations.

You mentioned Akashic Readers.Are they still exist?And how did you visit them?

[jcldragon]

I really like your opinion.What impressed me is how you explain the fact that the Ego of each life is destroyed but the Soul remains.It makes much sense and it explains why we may not be the same as our previous re-incarnations.

You mentioned Akashic Readers.Are they still exist?And how did you visit them?The Ego is a framework connecting the Soul with the Material World & the physical body. Personality is a collection of experiences, attitudes, & habits. None of these things is permanent or immortal. Experiences grow upon each other. Attitudes & views of the world can change. Habits can be adopted or discarded (with effort). That's why I say that these things are external trapping around the Soul, but not the Soul itself.

The further back you look into your past incarnations, the more you will discover what an ignorant jerk you used to be. None of us is innocent of anything, which is why people wonder why Karma can bring difficult and tramatic experiences to us in this life. It's just clearing up old business that we created for ourselves in the past.

Places, and time periods that you feel an affinity for, are the beginnings of remembering who you've been, and what you've done. From that you can develop a knowledge of your past incarnations. The link in my sig on Mental Yoga/Occult Exercises, give a series of Deep Meditaion Practices, that will unlock all of the higher brain functions, among which, is Akashic Record reading.

[fangedeshana]

Atoms can not be destroyed only changed so it is my view that such occurences of death are nothing more then change.

I really like that point.

[Grimr]

I really like that point.

As a Shaman I like seeing the points of spiritual and religous beliefs infused with principles of science.

There are so many things that not even the so called technological world can explain.

For instance the body right after death instantly loses weight and this happens right before any decaying of the flesh in any dead human being.

It is still a mystery why bodies lose this weight.

In my opinion this is the soul or life force transcending to the great beyond.

Of course there are some so called medical experts who criticize these beliefs by making exscuses of rationality.

They will say it is the air decompressing out of the lungs ,but in the end they truely don't know.

They can't explain how a person dies with their mouth closed and after a couple of minutes how this happens so fast.

Someday I would like to see science and religion come to grips with each other.

[dragoncrone]

...all your mail goes to the Dead Letter Office! :yayah:

*sigh* Momentary lapse into frivolity there... but seriously, I just don't take death seriously, possibly as a result of many years studying Buddhism.
I've seen death enough times not to be frightened of it, I'm aware of its eventuality, so while I'm sitting here in the great cosmic waiting room until my number pops up, I just laugh and point at people.

[fangedeshana]

As a Shaman I like seeing the points of spiritual and religous beliefs infused with principles of science.

There are so many things that not even the so called technological world can explain.

For instance the body right after death instantly loses weight and this happens right before any decaying of the flesh in any dead human being.

It is still a mystery why bodies lose this weight.

In my opinion this is the soul or life force transcending to the great beyond.

Of course there are some so called medical experts who criticize these beliefs by making exscuses of rationality.

They will say it is the air decompressing out of the lungs ,but in the end they truely don't know.

They can't explain how a person dies with their mouth closed and after a couple of minutes how this happens so fast.

Someday I would like to see science and religion come to grips with each other.

Thanks for posting :) I really found both your posts really interesting, and helpful in perhaps better infusing my own beliefs with principles of science in future. Certainly a good way to explain reasons why I think my beliefs are valid to a few purely scientic friend of mine who like challenging, friendly debate! ;)

[Grimr]

Thanks for posting :) I really found both your posts really interesting, and helpful in perhaps better infusing my own beliefs with principles of science in future. Certainly a good way to explain reasons why I think my beliefs are valid to a few purely scientic friend of mine who like challenging, friendly debate! ;)

I have a friend that is deeply atheistic in thought and pretty intelligent in science plus philosophy.

We always have pretty interesting conversations.

I have known many skeptics in my life to the direction it has pointed my faith and belief in the many forms of science and physics as well.


Is your friend like this?

[jcldragon]

A British scientist in the early 20th century, (yeah, I wish I could remember his name, or where I read this), came up with a scientific proof of life after death. It went something like this :

We know that matter & energy cannot be destroyed, but only change their forms. Matter is inert. Matter only moves or changes its form, when energy is brought to bear upon it. Energy is not directly percievable by matter, but we can detect the presense of energy by its effects upon matter.

Living things are self-animating, and self-replicating. Without the presense of some form of energy, they would be inert, as all other forms of matter. It is Life that animates living things, making plants to grow, and critters to move around. When they die, that energy is gone from them, but where it goes, is something that physical science has not been able to determine.

[Grimr]

A British scientist in the early 20th century, (yeah, I wish I could remember his name, or where I read this), came up with a scientific proof of life after death. It went something like this :

We know that matter & energy cannot be destroyed, but only change their forms. Matter is inert. Matter only moves or changes its form, when energy is brought to bear upon it. Energy is not directly percievable by matter, but we can detect the presense of energy by its effects upon matter.

Living things are self-animating, and self-replicating. Without the presense of some form of energy, they would be inert, as all other forms of matter. It is Life that animates living things, making plants to grow, and critters to move around. When they die, that energy is gone from them, but where it goes, is something that physical science has not been able to determine.

That sounds like a brilliant idea!

Who was the writer?

[SilentDreams]

I have many possibilities about what happens after death. Although, obviously, none have been confirmed to me so for now they remain nothing more than 'possibilities'.

I would like to think that we're reincarnated until our souls have gained enough information about different paths and feels "satisified". What it would do after attaining all the information it wants, well that I haven't quite made any assumptions or possibilities about, yet.

Although I'm not settling on one thing(the above is more wishful thinking). I think it's possible we just go up to some other plane of existence and stay there for eternity. Again, this is just a possibility.

So, sorry, I really can't give a definate answer. But then, isn't that the beauty of paganism at times? Having yourself open to many paths? I like it.

[Xirian]

I feel that our bodies die and our energy is recycled back into the things that are in need of energy at that time.

[fangedeshana]

I have a friend that is deeply atheistic in thought and pretty intelligent in science plus philosophy.

We always have pretty interesting conversations.

I have known many skeptics in my life to the direction it has pointed my faith and belief in the many forms of science and physics as well.


Is your friend like this?

Unfortnately not. lol. He is "scientific" minded without a great deal of knowledge of science. Although, you can't tell him that without him dissagreeing of course.

We have interesting conversation... err, debates :P

We enjoy them, and always are finding new points of intrests on either side of the fence to debate and pick to pieces.