Romany Gods & Goddesses?

[CleftOfLight]

Besides Saint Sara Kali,I was wondering if there are any other Gods and Goddess associated with the Romany,and do they have there own Gods and Goddesses.

[Toby Stimpson]

Hmm I would be careful with the assumption that Saint Sara is Kali, there are certain parts that might be concluding that she is a form of Kali, but remember the majority of Romany in Europe, where Saint Sara is honoured are Christians. I have heard that a few of the old Slav Gods were incorporated into the eastern Roma beliefs but apart from that Im not so sure.

Namaste

Tobias

[Agaliha]

I had to do an Anthro project on the Roma and my part was their religion.

Saint Sarah Kali (Kali Sarah, Sara-la-Kali (Sara the black), etc) is her name, though it's not saying she is the Kali, Galadraal.
Here are some links:
Wikipedia: Saint Sarah (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5X8DTIdE6LcA5FlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2bW5jcDlxBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNTYxX zcx/SIG=11sofouu6/EXP=1149803907/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sarah)
Shrine Of Sainte Sara La Kali (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LaSu1ETIdEvdcAX.VXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2bTJhZ2Q2BGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNTYxX zcx/SIG=124hjeksp/EXP=1149803972/**http%3a//www.novareinna.com/romani/sarashrine.html)
The Romani Goddess Kali Sara (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LaSu1ETIdEvdcAbOVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2c3JjbjA1BGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDNARzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNTYxX zcx/SIG=12gao42rc/EXP=1149803972/**http%3a//home.cogeco.ca/%7ekopachi/articles/romanigoddess.html)
Religion among the Roma (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LaSu1ETIdEvdcAgeVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2MTJjOWdnBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDNwRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNTYxX zcx/SIG=11qnu7e6j/EXP=1149803972/**http%3a//romove.radio.cz/en/clanek/18906)
RELIGION AND CULTURE OF THE ROMA (ALSO KNOWN AS GYPSIES, ROM, RROMA, ROMANI, RROMA) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geuqHqTIdEgjUB8jFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2dDhzZW9wBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNTYxX zcx/SIG=11u6emso1/EXP=1149804138/**http%3a//www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm)

It's believed that when the Roma migrated from Northern India, they look the idea of Kali and it became Saint Sarah.

As far as other Gods and Goddesses, in my research I found none.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul1d.gifthe existence of Del (God)http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul1d.gifthe existence of beng (Satan)http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul1d.gifthe existence of bibaxt (bad luck) and of muló (supernatural spirits or ghosts).
Are the only things other than Sarah that I've found.
They're not really polytheistic...

[Toby Stimpson]

Hehe I know...I just wanted to say. I have seen other posts in the past about the connection with kali and Sara, and although I think it's plausable...kali is also a word...and the Roma language has been linked to the ancient Indo Aryan languages. Some interesting links Agaliha! :)

Namaste

Tobias

[Garm]

As far as other Gods and Goddesses, in my research I found none.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul1d.gifthe existence of Del (God)http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul1d.gifthe existence of beng (Satan)http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul1d.gifthe existence of bibaxt (bad luck) and of muló (supernatural spirits or ghosts).
Are the only things other than Sarah that I've found.
They're not really polytheistic...

How much are they likely to tell the anthropologists?

[Agaliha]

How much are they likely to tell the anthropologists?

Tell them what? About their gods?
I think if they were polythesitic we'd know about it.
Ethnographers go into all types of cultures and learn about every aspect of their lives. We had to read about the !Kung San for example and they talked about their religion.
I do realize the Roma are people with a past of persecution, yet so do Jews and tons of other people, yet they still talk.
I don't really understand what your getting at.
The Roma aren't one people, they're diverse and found all over the world. There are similarities between different areas and groups, but they have their own slants of things due to their particular history and culture.
"The Roma cannot be said to have a "religion" of their own. They have usually adopted the faiths of the countries in which they live. Among the Roma can be found Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, and Muslims. Many prefer to carry out religious rituals in their own homes or in the context of folk observances. " (plus more: http://www.geocities.com/~patrin/beliefs.htm)
Maybe looooooong about they were Polytheistic, but I don't think they are now. Saint Sarah isn't seen as a goddess even to many Roma, but a patron, a portector.
::shrug::

[KaliGiri5]

Sara Kali isn't Kalima
Sara Kali is also known as Sara the Egyptian
she's semite..and black skinned or dark skinned
they are using the word kali/cale as an adjective

there is also a Mary of Egypt said to be black(a young girl)
who was a prostitute (maybe who we confuse for Magdalene)
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm22.htm

Sara & Mary may be the same person
although the worship of Mari(fertility mother goddess aka the black virgin) comes from Syria.
Virgin meaning unmarried..so a priestess
could never marry and was seen like priestess-prostitute.
a prostitute in that time was any woman who had sex without being married.


so all of us Christian or non who worship Mary as the mother worship a pagan goddess.


The Roma aren't one people, they're diverse and found all over the world. There are similarities between different areas and groups, but they have their own slants of things due to their particular history and culture.
"The Roma cannot be said to have a "religion" of their own. They have usually adopted the faiths of the countries in which they live.

Roma is one people.
the different looks of them comes from mixing..which by the way
means the mixed one isn't Roma anymore.
Indians like all Asians..if the woman breeds with whites her kids are white.
It's like Native Americans..when the woman went with a white man..she was cut off from her people...it wasn't that he(hubby) was accepted.
most fair skinned Europeans who claim to be Roma are claiming a past family member like our rednecks who claim mawmaw was a Cherokee princess without knowing they are not seen as the same by that minority group.

religion
Roma people...most are Catholics now.
when they was in India they followed Rama hence being called roma.

Hitler killed many Roma along with Jews.
It isn't the people you see today..that's Indo Euopeans
Hitler had nothing against Indo Europeans(Italian looking)..only Semites
even now most people who claim to be Jews & Roma..are Indo Europeans or just European not Semites/Hebrews.

[_Banbha_]

Originally Posted by KaliGiri5:
Roma is one people.
the different looks of them comes from mixing..which by the way
means the mixed one isn't Roma anymore.
Indians like all Asians..if the woman breeds with whites her kids are white.
It's like Native Americans..when the woman went with a white man..she was cut off from her people...it wasn't that he(hubby) was accepted.
most fair skinned Europeans who claim to be Roma are claiming a past family member like our rednecks who claim mawmaw was a Cherokee princess without knowing they are not seen as the same by that minority group.

religion
Roma people...most are Catholics now.
when they was in India they followed Rama hence being called roma.

Hitler killed many Roma along with Jews.
It isn't the people you see today..that's Indo Euopeans
Hitler had nothing against Indo Europeans(Italian looking)..only Semites
even now most people who claim to be Jews & Roma..are Indo Europeans or just European not Semites/Hebrews.

What are your sources for these claims? I'm just not sure what you are getting at here.

Also, you are speaking of Native Americans monolithically, which they are not.

[Agaliha]

::sigh::

Sara Kali isn't Kalima

No one said she was. Kali in her name means dark/black.

There are theories that because the Roma migrated from India (not Egypt like some many though before), that there is a link.
There are mytholgies of the Roma that link Sarah to the Mary Magdalene, Mary Jacobe and Mary Salome that came to France from Jerusalem after Jesus was crucifued. Read here for a summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sarah


Roma is one people.


I wasn't talking about looks. I was talking about culture. There is a difference.
"There is today no single Roma culture. Nor is there general agreement on who should qualify to be called a Roma. Romani groups around the world hold different traditions, customs and beliefs. Groups that have settled in one location generally adsorb some of the gajikané (non-Roma) local culture. Most Roma have converted the religions of their host countries, typically Christianity (Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Protestantism), and Islam."
(http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm)
--what do you know that's just what I was saying. There is no one Roma, they are a people of diversity and many.

There are--
the Domari in the Middle East and Eastern Europe,
the Lomarvren in Central Europe,
the Romani of Western Europe.
Within these groups, the Roma are organized into 4 main and about 10 smaller tribes or nations.
PLUS the Gitano and Chicano and other North and South American ones.
That's just to name a few.

our rednecks who claim mawmaw was a Cherokee princess
Cherokee Princesses are a myth, there was no royality in that sense.
I know what you mean, but technically if you have 1/16th NA blood you are-- by Cherokee standards anyway. I have 1/2 Cherokee in me, my father is full, so that'd make me more NA genetically, but I'd be Cherokee just the same as someone with a distant relative of one.
The fact that the Roma or whatever you like to call them are nomads (though many aren't anymore) means that mixing can happen. People on the "outside" are bound to have some Roma in them in certain area.


Roma people...most are Catholics now.


Nope, that's cutting out a whole chunk of the Roma--

"Most Roma have converted the religions of their host countries, typically Christianity (Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Protestantism), and Islam. Their formal religious affiliation is often supplemented by Roma traditional beliefs"
(http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm)


when they was in India they followed Rama hence being called roma.

Nope again. It has nothing to do with Rama. Lol.

"Most Roma refer to themselves as Rom. In the Romani language, Rom (man) derives from the Sanskrit dom (man). Alternate spellings of "Rroma" for the people and "Rromanes" for the language, were rejected by the last World Romani Congress, which defined the universal Romani alphabet."
from Wikipedia

"Romani people have been known by many names, including Gypsies (or Gipsies), Tsigani, Tzigane, Cigano, Zigeuner, and others. Most Roma have always referred to themselves by their tribal names, or as Rom or Roma, meaning "Man" or "People." (Rom, Roma, Romani, and Romaniya should not be confused with the country of Romania, or the city of Rome."
(http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm)


Hitler killed many Roma along with Jews.
This is true. Many were killed along with tons of other ethnicities, races and people.

It isn't the people you see today..that's Indo Euopeans
Hitler had nothing against Indo Europeans(Italian looking)..only Semites
even now most people who claim to be Jews & Roma..are Indo Europeans or just European not Semites/Hebrews.

Huh?


Also because I spent three months on my (and my groups) project on the Roma and have done tons of research (especially on their Religion and Death views) I can provided you with links and books that can...better clarify things.