my boyfriend was born on a cusp

[xstarE_nitex]

I really don't completly know what it means... Ive been with him for 6years.... Im a scorpio... he was born on june 21 so he was born on the cusp of cancer and gemini.... my sign is very compatable with cancer but no extremly compatable with geminis... and geminis seem to have this two faced trait... its so crazy because sometimes he's the sweetist person and then he changes so fast.... when I tell others experienced in astrology he was born on the cusp the cringe and tell me that is a bad mix...
so is it bad?...
whats your opinion of someone born at this time?

[scorpiochick77]

Cancers moods can change just that quick also. They're very moody and changeable at times...especially right now because the moon is getting full. :lol: After all the moon does rule cancer. On the other hand they tend to be really emotional as they're ruled by water. Still waters that run deep.:) Cancer is also very sentimental and protective when it comes to someone they love so that's a good thing. You should probably find out his/your rising and moon signs also as this really means alot too.

[ValD]

Being "on the cusp" is, IMHO, an old and outdated idea. You're either one sign or another.
Of course, you're a lot more than just your sun sign. The whole chart has to be taken into consideration.
If you can tell us your BF's date, time & place of birth, sometbody here will be able to tell you which Sun -sign he is.

[xstarE_nitex]

BF's date, time & place of birth

ok he was born on june 21'st 1986 at around 8:30 at night in perry georgia

[Fluffmeister]

BF's date, time & place of birth

ok he was born on june 21'st 1986 at around 8:30 at night in perry georgia

He's Cancer - and not only that, but born on the night of a Full Moon :)

His "rising sign" is either Sagittarius or Capricorn (depends exactly when he was born - if he was born at 20:30 as you said, he's very late Sag, but if he was born just ten minutes later, he'd be Cappie rising) - the rising sign is how someone comes across. Does he come across as serious and businesslike (Cappie) or playful and perhaps a bit over-optimistic (Sag)?

[xstarE_nitex]

He's Cancer - and not only that, but born on the night of a Full Moon :)

His "rising sign" is either Sagittarius or Capricorn (depends exactly when he was born - if he was born at 20:30 as you said, he's very late Sag, but if he was born just ten minutes later, he'd be Cappie rising) - the rising sign is how someone comes across. Does he come across as serious and businesslike (Cappie) or playful and perhaps a bit over-optimistic (Sag)?

He acts more playful and can be over optimistic... thank you :)... it always perplexed me what he was....
and I guess it makes us more complimented because he's cancer and Im scorpio...
im 11/16/85 born in warner robins ga at 10:39 am...
thanks again

[KEishin]

Being "on the cusp" is, IMHO, an old and outdated idea. You're either one sign or another.
Well, there is something to be said about the whole "critical degrees" bit. While someone born near the termination of a sign isn't always going to be at 29 degrees it does make thing interesting. But since that's not what xstarE_nitex was aksing about I'll be quiet now that I've made my point :)

Of course, you're a lot more than just your sun sign. The whole chart has to be taken into consideration.
Always!

[business voodoo]

well, you can probably treat his sun sign more like the gemini, as sidereally, or in reality, the constellation his sun was crossing was gemini ... what's interesting about the tropical/sidereal shift is the upset of the elements shifts, changing his ascending sign to scorpio from capricorn ... that can add depth (without too much explanation to you or anyone else) to what is going on, as well as some underlying intensity in the areas of transformation (with the intercepted houses, etc.). i hope he has some creative outlets to help him in the area of transformation, that would be an area i would encourage him when he's being difficult, moody, unhappy or frustrated.

[Fluffmeister]

well, you can probably treat his sun sign more like the gemini, as sidereally, or in reality, the constellation his sun was crossing was gemini ... what's interesting about the tropical/sidereal shift is the upset of the elements shifts, changing his ascending sign to scorpio from capricorn ... that can add depth (without too much explanation to you or anyone else) to what is going on, as well as some underlying intensity in the areas of transformation (with the intercepted houses, etc.). i hope he has some creative outlets to help him in the area of transformation, that would be an area i would encourage him when he's being difficult, moody, unhappy or frustrated.

Sorry, but I have to say I really disagree with this. In Vedic astrology, yes he'd have a Gemini Sun; his Ascendant would definitely still be Sag (in Western, as it's very late Sag, there's some doubt - he could be Cap rising; he doesn't have a Scorp Asc in either system), so his chart would be ruled by "guru", Jupiter, just as it is in Western. The rules of Vedic astrology are very different to Western astrology, and are consistent in their own right - so it would be perfectly valid to do a Vedic reading for him. However, I *don't* think it's valid simply to use the sidereal zodiac and then interpret it as though it's Western astrology.

Western astrology is a self-contained system based on our relationship to the seasons, not the backdrop of stars. Vedic astrology is a self-contained system based on a different zodiac (not technically the stars, since constellations span different sized segments of sky - even in Vedic astrology all signs are 30 degrees whereas all constellations aren't). They both work, but only under their own terms.

[business voodoo]

just, fyi ... i do not use the sidereal chart for vedic philosophy based astrology ...

i use the sidereal chart because that is where the planets truly are placed ... i use the tropical chart because that is connected to our current gregorian calendar system.

i believe all systems and philosophies are valid and useful, just as i believe the system i use is valid and useful. i have studied vedic astrology and found many of its principles quite profound and integrate the knowledge i have from vedic astrology studies in my synthesis of any chart.

i use all my knowledge to create a philosophy that i have found works for me (and, consequently others) ... the work i do is synthesize all the information i know from all the sources i have been given. i do not subscribe to one versus the other; and i do not subscribe that there is one way to do things. i just do it the way i have been given to understand it; i find truth in all the schools and philosophies and can only see what i see as i understand it. that is all a good astrologer can really do.

either the information i had was relevant to the person asking the question or it wasn't ... i can only explain the symbols i see how i see them, and truth the universe has given me through my understanding to share with others for the benefit of the whole.

cheers!

[Fluffmeister]

just, fyi ... i do not use the sidereal chart for vedic philosophy based astrology ...

i use the sidereal chart because that is where the planets truly are placed ... i use the tropical chart because that is connected to our current gregorian calendar system.


Tropical astrology was still used in medieval times when we were still using the Julian calendar - it's not related to the Gregorian calendar. It *is* related to the seasons on Earth, and therefore on our relationship between our planet and the other planets.

Sidereal astrology is based on the starry backdrop - so philosophically, it would depend on whether one believes that the stars themselves have influence, or whether it's the planets that have influence, with the starry backdrop being merely a marker. Actually, I *do* think the stars are important, though I'd dare to suggest that most modern western astrologers don't. The problem I see though is that all constellations are not the same size. The constellation of Virgo, for example, spans about forty degrees - and yet the sidereal astrologers I've spoken to use thirty degree signs. So if when I was born Mars was seen to be sitting next to the star Syrma in the constellation of Virgo, what would my Mars sign be? Most tropical astrologers would say Scorpio, because Syrma is at 3 Scorpio tropically; most siderealists would say it is around "10 Libra" according to most sidereal zodiacs. However, the star is in the constellation of Virgo - so wouldn't a true siderealist have to say that Mars would be in Virgo in this case? In this example, that is where Mars "really" is.

I don't have a problem with sidereal astrology - most astrologers in the world are sidereal astrologers, because Vedic astrology is so much more accepted in India than Western astrology is in the West. However, my objection is to those siderealists (and I'm not including you among them, incidentally!) who claim that their system is "correct" and that tropical astrology is "wrong". Zodiacal signs, whether sidereal or tropical, are symbolic since no one can agree where constellation boundaries are anyway, and not all constellations occupy thirty degrees.

I certainly don't have a problem with the Vedic system, which works; I don't have a problem with the tropical western system, which also works. The two systems use very different techniques and rules. I'm much more doubtful about "western sidereal" astrology - which I dabbled with for a few years - because I think it's trying to force western techniques upon a Vedic sidereal system which works perfectly well without them.

[business voodoo]

fluff ...

yes, i totally agree that both systems ... heck i think all systems ... work for the circumstances of whatever they are used for ... just like if someone has a chart cast with a bogus time, and then 10 years later, they were born 8 hours earlier, etc., the relevance of the 'incorrect' time was perfect until the time of the revelation of the 'correct' time ... when that new information is the relevant information the person needs ... that's how i view the universe's imperfect perfection works anyway ...

you are right, the zodiac was created way before the gregorian calendar and ptolemy locked it to the vernal equinox during the julian era, but the "lock" of aries and that of the gregorian calendar to the vernal equinox is how they are connected ... in my opinion, the gregorian calendar was designed to attach to the time/energy of the tropical zodiac aries/vernal equinox lock established by ptolemy. i can go into all the reasons why pope gregory would have done it ... but if you just read the headlines, and remember the words of some ancient person (i can't remember who said it right at the moment) ... 'he who controls time, controls the world' ... anyway ... that's the connection i am speaking to, when i mention that. that is the 'prevailing' energy of the world is attached to the tropical zodiac and gregorian time system.

without getting too far into it ... i don't try to attach western ways to the vedic system ... i liken the way i look at the way i view the separate zodiacs to the movie the matrix ... whereas the chart cast based on the tropical zodiac is the reality reflected when plugged into the matrix, the sidereal placement of the stars are the reality (where they get uploaded to the matrix).

both realities are useful and real ... depending on what one perceives is reality and whether you need to operate exclusively in one or the other for a specific purpose, and the interaction of the self with both of them.

i tend to use the koch house system (and, to be honest, don't have any real good reason, except that it 'feels' right more times than any other system), but every now and then its just not the right system for the person ... i then go back to numerology and find the correlations that connect the zodiacs to the person's numeric vibrations for clarity/confirmation (and, when all else fails, i use the pendulum for more divine guidance or confirmation!).

my next quest for info is the integration of the chinese zodiac ... especially since i recently learned that the chinese calendar was modified to lock to the gregorian system ... much work to do !!!!! so interesting and exciting to think of all the ways to integrate the global picture (economy, civilizations, etc.) ...

thanks for all the great info .... would be curious to hear more about when you 'dabbled' ...
= )

[Fluffmeister]

fluff ...

yes, i totally agree that both systems ... heck i think all systems ... work for the circumstances of whatever they are used for ... just like if someone has a chart cast with a bogus time, and then 10 years later, they were born 8 hours earlier, etc., the relevance of the 'incorrect' time was perfect until the time of the revelation of the 'correct' time ... when that new information is the relevant information the person needs ... that's how i view the universe's imperfect perfection works anyway ...

you are right, the zodiac was created way before the gregorian calendar and ptolemy locked it to the vernal equinox during the julian era, but the "lock" of aries and that of the gregorian calendar to the vernal equinox is how they are connected ... in my opinion, the gregorian calendar was designed to attach to the time/energy of the tropical zodiac aries/vernal equinox lock established by ptolemy. i can go into all the reasons why pope gregory would have done it ... but if you just read the headlines, and remember the words of some ancient person (i can't remember who said it right at the moment) ... 'he who controls time, controls the world' ... anyway ... that's the connection i am speaking to, when i mention that. that is the 'prevailing' energy of the world is attached to the tropical zodiac and gregorian time system.

without getting too far into it ... i don't try to attach western ways to the vedic system ... i liken the way i look at the way i view the separate zodiacs to the movie the matrix ... whereas the chart cast based on the tropical zodiac is the reality reflected when plugged into the matrix, the sidereal placement of the stars are the reality (where they get uploaded to the matrix).

both realities are useful and real ... depending on what one perceives is reality and whether you need to operate exclusively in one or the other for a specific purpose, and the interaction of the self with both of them.

i tend to use the koch house system (and, to be honest, don't have any real good reason, except that it 'feels' right more times than any other system), but every now and then its just not the right system for the person ... i then go back to numerology and find the correlations that connect the zodiacs to the person's numeric vibrations for clarity/confirmation (and, when all else fails, i use the pendulum for more divine guidance or confirmation!).

my next quest for info is the integration of the chinese zodiac ... especially since i recently learned that the chinese calendar was modified to lock to the gregorian system ... much work to do !!!!! so interesting and exciting to think of all the ways to integrate the global picture (economy, civilizations, etc.) ...

thanks for all the great info .... would be curious to hear more about when you 'dabbled' ...
= )

Hi, Elaine -

I'm interested in the use of "fixed stars", and particular the visual astrology proposed by Bernadette Brady: check out www.zyntara.com (http://www.zyntara.com) for the work she's doing. I can certainly relate to the energies of the stars and how they work in connection with planets.

However, I think we have a tendency to regiment the stars. A true sidereal zodiac wouldn't have 30 degree signs - it would cater for the fact that Virgo sprawls over more than 30 degrees, while Aries is much smaller. All the sidereal zodiacs I've seen used in practice, though, are still just approximations to constellations. Part of the problem is we can't really decide exactly where the boundaries between constellations are - after all, usually the "boundary" is just black space. Added to that is the complication that the constellations we use today really came from Ptolemy, who admitted that he got them from the "Chaldeans" (Babylonians) and couldn't understand everything they wrote. I've found evidence that stars that *he* considered to be in Pisces were actually considered part of Aquarius by the Babylonians, which really muddies the waters (not to mention making the Age of Aquarius much, much sooner than would otherwise be the case).

So for me, I tend to find the energies of specific stars in connection with a planet (for instance, Sirius rising with Venus, or Arcturus culminating as Mars sets) are very powerful; but when it comes to sidereal zodiacs, it's a question of "which one?". There are so many different "ayanamsas", that two sidereal astrologers will have entirely different readings; for instance, my Sun (25Pis03 in the tropical zodiac) is 0Pis52 according to Fagan-Allen, 1Pis45 with Lahiri, 3Pis12 with Raman. These are all sidereal - so which one is correct?

I dabbled with Sidereal (there's a Yahoo group devoted to it - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sidereal/) for a while; I'm unusual in that my Sun, Moon and Ascendant are all in late tropical degrees, so none of them change sign in any sidereal system. I was particularly impressed by sidereal solar returns, which seem to be the technique that has converted many a tropical astrologer to the sidereal system. Most tropical astrologers will admit, when pushed, that solar returns "sometimes work, and sometimes don't" - that's a quote from Rob Hand, incidentally! Sidereal astrologers point to the precision of sidereal solar returns.

Just as sidereal solar returns seem to be an example of something that works well in sidereal and not in tropical, I found a reluctance among sidereal astrologers to put much emphasis on signs, or even on natal work. Most considered the house placement to be more important than the sign in natal work - and that's interesting, because generally speaking the house placement doesn't shift much between tropical and sidereal. My fifth house Saturn (tropically) is still fifth house in most sidereal systems - because everything shifts by the same amount. It seemed to me that sidereal astrologers were downgrading signs - the one thing that differs between the two systems.

I found this interesting, because sidereal astrology without the signs isn't that different from tropical astrology, except in one important area - returns. I now tend to use precessed solar returns, so I'm using a sidereal technique but with the tropical zodiac. I'm not sure whether the results are better or not yet, but it seems plausible.

The thing that I couldn't accept in my own chart sidereally was my Saturn and Jupiter. I have, tropically, Saturn in Capricorn and Jupiter in Capricorn. Saturn is in rulership, Jupiter is in fall. And my transits of Saturn and Jupiter play out just like this. Most people hate Saturn transits and love Jupiter transits; for me, it's the other way round. On my Saturn return, I got a huge pay rise, got loads of extra responsibility, had people working for me and was able to write my own job description. My mortgage was no longer a millstone round my neck, and I went on holiday abroad five times that year. It was probably the best year of my life. On my second Jupiter return, I split up with my boyfriend and had a very traumatic year. On my third Jupiter return, I nearly lost my house and my job, I split up with my boyfriend (different one, this time!) and my mother died.

Sidereally, both Jupiter and Saturn are in Sagittarius. Instead of a strong Saturn and a weak Jupiter, I'd have a wonderful Jupiter and a not so happy Saturn. But my Jupiter just doesn't work like a Sag Jupiter in any way, shape or form! Adding to that the fact that no two sidereal astrologers could give me the same answer to the question "where is my Sun?" (or any of my planets), meant I moved away from experimenting with it.

Have you come across the Rev. Pam Crane? She likes to use lots of different zodiacs - she pretty much pioneered the Draconic zodiac, and uses both the sidereal and tropical to highlight different areas. She's a regular contributor to the Astrological Journal, and well worth reading.

[business voodoo]

fluff ...
curious to know if your saturn was retrograde (either natal or progressed) at that time ... just a curiosity question from another thread ...

you're the 2nd person to mention the draconic zodiac ... will check into that ... ahhh, lovely white rabbits. thank you.

i know what you mean about a sign not fitting ... that's what got me to switch in the first place ... a long story of white rabbit followings short ... my moon ... tropically in pisces 7th house ... and yes, i had a pisces moon but it was my complete undoing ... absolutely immobilized or derailed me all the time -- and something that my parents used against me continually.

while it is good that i have the capacity of the moon/pisces, but when the war restarted in 2001, i was a mess. so ... one white rabbit after the other until one day i ran my chart using the larini sidereal but maintained my koch houses and poof, the numbers magically appeared ... my ascendent 2 leo 22'55 ... coinciding with my life lesson and my new married name soul vibration ... not to mention four other numerical correlations ... so, my first planet to switch was my moon ... pisces to aquarius ... how liberating and that's what got me going.

i have just started incorporating the asteriods, particularly juno, because that seems to be a 'family' asteroid for us ... my husband and my composite juno is a mere 1 second off our ascendent and my daughter's natal juno is a mere 6 seconds off her ascendent.

as well, i have only recently begun to include the stars ... mostly because in my continuing studies on time, i learned that sirius is the basis for the mayan calendar ... and sirius actually being a double star, intimates that the mayan calendar is built on duality (instead of universality) ... and that in turn, lead me to incorporate the galactic center ... which is an amazing notion, especially with pluto's near conjunction with it before it turned retrograde in march, and making its conjunction later this year ... and with the pluto/planet x debate this summer, well, its just a fun time to play with the stars.

i am lucky here in las vegas, there is a woman in our astrology group who has been studying the galactic center for over 15 years ... she is a the most informed person i've found on the subject (although she defers to others, her innate understanding of the galactic center eclipses all of the 'experts').

one of my more interesting notions, especially here in america, is tracking the way we teach and the shift of the 'generational' energy planets from sign/element ... the exchange of text books that coincides with the jupiter cycle, etc. e.g., i have been raised with a consciousness of pluto in virgo, when, if you cast my chart according to where pluto actually was in the sky the morning i was born, pluto in leo ... if those who control time control the world keep me thinking i'm pluto in virgo, well then, i cannot truly use all of my pluto energy the way i was brought onto the planet to use it, now could i? not that i am big on conspiracies, but as time shifted the zodiac from reality, it shifted all of our perceptions and those of our parents and ancestors to believe things that were not really true ... so it isn't necessarily a group of people orchestrating it, but rather our collective conscious and unconscious that have created this false reality that basically keeps up enslaved.

anyway ... my eyes are crossing ... thanks for your GREAT insight and knowledge, it is truly helpful and allowing me to connect more bits of information that i need coming from my very abstract view of astrology. knowledge is definitely power.

buenos noches.

[Fluffmeister]

fluff ...
curious to know if your saturn was retrograde (either natal or progressed) at that time ... just a curiosity question from another thread ...


That's extraordinary! Yes - my progressed Saturn went retrograde in Feb 2003; I started getting interested in sidereal a year later at an astrology meet, when I met someone I'd become friends with online for the first time. I have a lot of respect for him, and he was starting to use sidereal astrology very seriously. Well spotted :)


as well, i have only recently begun to include the stars ... mostly because in my continuing studies on time, i learned that sirius is the basis for the mayan calendar ... and sirius actually being a double star, intimates that the mayan calendar is built on duality (instead of universality) ... and that in turn, lead me to incorporate the galactic center ... which is an amazing notion, especially with pluto's near conjunction with it before it turned retrograde in march, and making its conjunction later this year ... and with the pluto/planet x debate this summer, well, its just a fun time to play with the stars.


If you'd like a personal fixed star report done by "Starlight" - that's the software Bernadette Brady developed in her work on fixed stars - just PM me your e-mail address and birth data and I'll e-mail you a copy (it's a PDF file, so too big to send by PM). It's a computer-generated report, and I don't normally like computer-generated reports, but these are pretty good and definitely give a different angle to most astrology reports!


one of my more interesting notions, especially here in america, is tracking the way we teach and the shift of the 'generational' energy planets from sign/element ... the exchange of text books that coincides with the jupiter cycle, etc. e.g., i have been raised with a consciousness of pluto in virgo, when, if you cast my chart according to where pluto actually was in the sky the morning i was born, pluto in leo ... if those who control time control the world keep me thinking i'm pluto in virgo, well then, i cannot truly use all of my pluto energy the way i was brought onto the planet to use it, now could i? not that i am big on conspiracies, but as time shifted the zodiac from reality, it shifted all of our perceptions and those of our parents and ancestors to believe things that were not really true ... so it isn't necessarily a group of people orchestrating it, but rather our collective conscious and unconscious that have created this false reality that basically keeps up enslaved.


Interesting; my particular passion (which I'm hoping to do my thesis on) is precessional ages, so you can see why I'm interested in the definitions of zodiacs and constellations!

[business voodoo]

info ... xxxxxxx ... would love a fixed star report ... email 'sustaingaia77@yahoo.com' ...

curious if you've ever seen a small little booklet (47 pages) written in the 60's by manly palmer hall, "the piscean age, a system of world prophecy" ... its a bit over my head still, but he breaks down the ages and mini-ages, and cycles ... its quite a remarkable little book. published by one of my favorite places on the planet ... the philosophical research society in california. i just picked it up from a used book store ... all the info is based on tropical planetary placements.

the book and its principles definitely reaffirmed what i thought, the transistion to the aquarian age is not a date specific, but a period ... probably started early last century and will continue for another 600 years. and, as individuals, we can switch to living in the aqe of aquarius at any moment in time, if we want.

have a great tuesday!

[Fluffmeister]

info ... xxxx... would love a fixed star report ... email xxxxx...

curious if you've ever seen a small little booklet (47 pages) written in the 60's by manly palmer hall, "the piscean age, a system of world prophecy" ... its a bit over my head still, but he breaks down the ages and mini-ages, and cycles ... its quite a remarkable little book. published by one of my favorite places on the planet ... the philosophical research society in california. i just picked it up from a used book store ... all the info is based on tropical planetary placements.

the book and its principles definitely reaffirmed what i thought, the transistion to the aquarian age is not a date specific, but a period ... probably started early last century and will continue for another 600 years. and, as individuals, we can switch to living in the aqe of aquarius at any moment in time, if we want.

have a great tuesday!

I've been away for a few days, so only just read this - doing it now :)

And no - the book sounds fascinating! I'll see if I can find a copy sometime. I'm currently reviewing a similar book called "Signs of the Times" on precessional ages by someone called Robert Fitzgerald which I'm finding interesting.

[business voodoo]

THANKS for the report ... fascinatingly accurate ... i can't wait to really *read* it thoroughly, but on the surface, remarkably dead on ... thanks you so much for the report!!!! happy to return a favor any time ...
xoxox

[Fluffmeister]

THANKS for the report ... fascinatingly accurate ... i can't wait to really *read* it thoroughly, but on the surface, remarkably dead on ... thanks you so much for the report!!!! happy to return a favor any time ...
xoxox

You're welcome! I see you've edited your birth data out of the thread, so I've done the same in my quoted reply :)

[business voodoo]

= ) thanks ... not only are you nice, but you pay attention to details ... good thing in an astrologer ... so, query, if anyone knows ... what's up with the "karma power" ... the numbers make little sense to me ... are they supposed to?