Does magic really work?

[lady_fey]

I've read a little about magic(majick) here and there I have a few books on wicca and witchcraft. Scott Cunningham is very interesting to read. What I am wondering however is this:
For those of you who have experienced the workings of majick(magic) how do you know it is the working of your energy and energy you are drawing from and not coinicidence?
How many of you have had your spells Really Work? And it's not just a mere coinicidence.
I truly believe in energy. I have known a few people to have had their own supernatural (if you want to call it that) experiences and honestly believe in the ability of psychics, it just seems that this is next up on the list to understand.
Now, let me be clear, I am in no way, none whatsoever, being sarcastic or anything remotely close to that.
I am genuinely curious to see what the general consensus is.

The idea of a "try it yourself and see" doesn't make sense for one like me who figures if there is not enough 'faith' or positive energy going into the whole thing, it's likely to fall through.

Lady Fey
:elf:

[SSanf]

Yes!

[Infinite Grey]

first of all... give up with the majick shit... the word is MAGIC. Secondly, it's a matter of opinion. Mine is that Energy work isn't magic at all, and most energy workers haven't put in the necessary time period to achieve a level to which will have any more effect than a bug on the windshield. If you're looking for real magic, as in mythical fireball flinging madness then you're in for a great disappointment. But if you're willing to look at "magic" as an extension of science and physics, then you are in the right frame of mind.

[lady_fey]

... give up with the majick shit... the word is MAGIC.

Hm, umh, yeah... I've been to a few other forums where people get really, really upset if one spells magic either way, so I was covering my bases. I guess some feel that the word magic applies to David Blane type stuff, whereas the other applies to Scott Cunningham. Don't know who decided it or why, but it's out there. That's all.

And no not looking for fireflinging madness.
That would be well a bit more hollywood theatrics wouldn't it?
I suppose I was thinking along the lines of ...

Someone casts a spell to bring $$ their way.
Two days later they get an unexpected check in the mail.
Was it the spell or was it coincidence?

IF it were the spell, I suppose I would be of the opinion that it would be a matter of the energy that was put into ritual, no matter how big or small, that altered the course of events.
But how does one know?

That's why I am asking, how do those on the board who practice magic, know what is and what is not.
Lady Fey
:elf:
(on a side note: peacock just looked at your site, you are incredibly talented.)

[Sage Rainsong]

Yes I do believe that it works but I do not believe it works in a cook book sort of way. You need to put in enough energy into it for it to work. That isn't to say that a pre made spell can't work of course.

[MoonDragn]

What I do is sympathetic magic, its effects are very subtle and most of the time you see it as an abnormal amount of good luck. I believe it works, and belief plays a huge part to it. I've see more spectacular stuff like refrigerators moving, etc but that is more psychic ability than magic.

[lady_fey]

Yes I do believe that it works but I do not believe it works in a cook book sort of way. You need to put in enough energy into it for it to work. That isn't to say that a pre made spell can't work of course.

So what makes the spell work then is the energy, not the ritual itself? Ok, well, if this is an answerable question I don't know, but what sorts of 'spells' could one do, that would be helpful in answering these sorts of questions? Like take someone like me who definitely believes in energy, but is not sure about magic, even in the most scientific sense of the word (if that's a possiblity). What could one do that would start the wheels rolling in giving a foundation for belief yet at the same time not continue the same cycle of did it really work or was it just a coinicidence? I do think there is a point where one finally stops saying, nope, that is no coinicidence, that was magic, or unexplainable except for magic etc.


What I do is sympathetic magic, its effects are very subtle and most of the time you see it as an abnormal amount of good luck. I believe it works, and belief plays a huge part to it. I've see more spectacular stuff like refrigerators moving, etc but that is more psychic ability than magic.


Refrigerators moving??? Wow, now there is some strong energy going on with that huh! So like praying, would that be comparable? You know prayers for a person for a certain outcome or whatnot. Wouldn't that be all coming from the same energy source? Or are there different forms of energy? (If this has already been answered, sorry!!)

Sorry for the bombardment of questions. Just had these thoughts rolling around that I wanted to talk about.

Lady Fey
:elf:

[Sage Rainsong]

So what makes the spell work then is the energy, not the ritual itself? Ok, well, if this is an answerable question I don't know, but what sorts of 'spells' could one do, that would be helpful in answering these sorts of questions?

Well what I mean is that the supplies and rituals are somewhat important, they do have an energy all on their own but without you to tap into it and use it then the spells are meaningless. What I meant by cookbook spells is that some books give the impression that 1 green candle + oil = money. I believe that it is mostly intent and the enregy of your mind that creates a spell. Essentially the components of a spell are window dressing not that there is anything wrong with that.


Like take someone like me who definitely believes in energy, but is not sure about magic, even in the most scientific sense of the word (if that's a possiblity). What could one do that would start the wheels rolling in giving a foundation for belief yet at the same time not continue the same cycle of did it really work or was it just a coinicidence? I do think there is a point where one finally stops saying, nope, that is no coinicidence, that was magic, or unexplainable except for magic etc.

You may hate this answer, but you have to try doing spells. Perhaps it is the word spells and magic that are throwing you off. Since you believe in energy, think about this for a moment. If I simply lit a candle and visualized lets say....a new job and I I got one is that a spell or did I just use my minds energy to get what I wanted? Essentially it's the same thing.
Anyway it doesn't require constant unbending faith to try a spell. Most people don't start out that way. All you need to believe is that magic may be possible and try them a few times. For me, and I think most magic practictioners, it was a case of these spells working, are becoming just a little too coincidental to be an accident. Magic is much more experiential than cerebral so I can't give you a formula or a definite starting point of belief.

You may want to check out these books:
The Veils Edge by Willow Polson
Real Magic by Issac Bonewits
The Science of the Craft by William Keith

[semi]

Rituals and spells are just props that activate certain energies. You don't need them to activate these energies, but they sometimes help. You can just will it, learn to move the energy without the ritual or spells. Crowley's quote "Magic is the art and science of causing change to occur in conformity with will" puts it nicely.

I have seen and done enough to know that there is no coincidence. Each step we take is chosen, consciously or not, and each event that occurs is a part of the path we're walking on. Your choices set up your future choices and opportunities. Nothing happens by chance.

[MoonDragn]

Heres another explanation based on stuff I read and experienced. There is a semi-reality called the Astral plane, in fact several different dimensions of it. There is one dimension where your thoughts become reality in this plane. Think of it like a psychic internet. The thoughtforms as they are called can greatly affect reality until they merge. So anything you create here is like magic that affects the real world.

[lady_fey]

Lol, No by no means did I hate your answer.
It makes sense.
The next question (sorry for all these questions) would the energy alone be sufficient do you think regardless of the 'spell' or 'ritual' that was used?
Either way, you make a good case for trying it out and putting the energy into it to just find out. I suppose I am reluctant to do so, because you are right, the terminology is throwing me off, or scaring me off a bit. I'll check out those books, and also keep reading up on some of the threads here regarding magic/spells etc.

Anyway it doesn't require constant unbending faith to try a spell.

I appreciate that statement. Because my first thought is that it would take a great deal of constant faith/belief to give it a go.

Lady Fey
:elf: _wiz_

[SilentDreams]

I've not done many "spells" or "rituals". I look more to the Gods to help me find what I need within myself(or others) to achieve my goals. But in instances where I've used Magic I believe it's worked.

Firstly you have to realize, doing a ritual(in my belief anyway) is nothing more than a way for us to focus and concentrate more on what we're doing. Seeing as how "spells" start working the minute you put thought into them all the preperation, acctual ritual theatrics and everything else becomes a way to truly have us thinking, living, and breathing our "spell". This way it's much stronger. But honestly one can preform Magic without any sort of ritual or "spell". They just need to focus solely on the intent they want to help shift energies to produce their inteded result.

[Sage Rainsong]

I appreciate that statement. Because my first thought is that it would take a great deal of constant faith/belief to give it a go.

Lady Fey

Oh yeah many witches start out as skeptics. Christopher Penczak started out that way you can read an interview if you want.

http://twpt.com/penczak.htm


The next question (sorry for all these questions) would the energy alone be sufficient do you think regardless of the 'spell' or 'ritual' that was used?

Yes it is certainly possible and I have done it myself but personally I like using props because I believe that it adds energy and I consider my magic to be an art as well. I guess I just like pretty flowers and shiny things lol. Also don't worry about the questions that's why the forum exists.

[Vigdisdotter]

For those of you who have experienced the workings of majick(magic) how do you know it is the working of your energy and energy you are drawing from and not coinicidence?


How do you know that a "coincidence" is not the result of a magickal effort?

How many of you have had your spells Really Work? And it's not just a mere coinicidence.

Again, how do you know what you are calling coincidence isn't something more? Oh and I've had it work.

The idea of a "try it yourself and see" doesn't make sense for one like me who figures if there is not enough 'faith' or positive energy going into the whole thing, it's likely to fall through.

We all start at that point at one time or another. Somehow others have managed to work through it. I'm betting you can too. Just work on getting yourself in the right frame of mind so that you don't sabotage your efforts.

[lady_fey]

How do you know that a "coincidence" is not the result of a magickal effort?


Ok, that is a good point. The logic has to work both ways, huh?


We all start at that point at one time or another. Somehow others have managed to work through it. I'm betting you can too. Just work on getting yourself in the right frame of mind so that you don't sabotage your efforts.


I think that's partly me problem. Is I'm thinking that like 1/2 way into it I would be going, "this is So not going to work anyway, so why bother?"


Yes it is certainly possible and I have done it myself but personally I like using props because I believe that it adds energy and I consider my magic to be an art as well. I guess I just like pretty flowers and shiny things lol. Also don't worry about the questions that's why the forum exists.


Ahh, well, I think that art is magical in it's own right. So, there's a starting point! And thanks for the reassurance.


I look more to the Gods to help me find what I need within myself(or others) to achieve my goals.


I think I can sort of relate to that. I tend to think of the Gods/Divine as providing assistance if we allow them/it/he/she to do so. And have felt such assisatance in my own life. Little nudges and whatnot.


Firstly you have to realize, doing a ritual(in my belief anyway) is nothing more than a way for us to focus and concentrate more on what we're doing. Seeing as how "spells" start working the minute you put thought into them all the preperation, acctual ritual theatrics and everything else becomes a way to truly have us thinking, living, and breathing our "spell". This way it's much stronger.


This is a really interesting statement. I am thinking of what you are saying as music. The drum beats harder, faster, louder and the energy of the dancer gets stronger. Without the drum beating or the music, the dancers energy might not get as strong. AM I on the right track?

Lady Fey
:elf: _wiz_

[Sage Rainsong]

Ahh, well, I think that art is magical in it's own right. So, there's a starting point! And thanks for the reassurance.

Oh certianly art is magic in its own right. Magic can also be art. There is something about having props and I would never dismiss them entirely. They are physical representations of your desires given form through ones' creativity.

edit to add:
By the way if you want you can pm me any time.

[Vigdisdotter]

Ok, that is a good point. The logic has to work both ways, huh?

Mmhmm :)


I think that's partly me problem. Is I'm thinking that like 1/2 way into it I would be going, "this is So not going to work anyway, so why bother?"


You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last.

You might try looking at it less in terms of working/not working and more along the lines of "lets see what I learn/get out of THIS experience." Oh and keep notes! They are a big help in figuring out what works best.


I think I can sort of relate to that. I tend to think of the Gods/Divine as providing assistance if we allow them/it/he/she to do so. And have felt such assisatance in my own life. Little nudges and whatnot.


They do indeed, and sometimes not so little :P The thing to remember is that they aren't they JUST to give assistance. One should make the effort to have a well rounded relationship with them.

[wolf]

IMHO, Magic works every single time, however, the results you want and the results you get are often not the same.

[lady_fey]

You might try looking at it less in terms of working/not working and more along the lines of "lets see what I learn/get out of THIS experience." Oh and keep notes! They are a big help in figuring out what works best.

Hm this is an interesting point. To start with one of the first things I thought when I read this is that by Not focusing so much energy on whether or not this is going to work, I end up using that energy in a more positive way of just experiencing the experience and drawing closer to the Divine. I hope this following statement won't offend anyone, but it reminds me of Mass. There probably are a good number of people who receive communion and think, "yeah right, sure whatever" and are maybe even waiting for some mystical thing to happen. Like tingles up and down their spine. And when it doesn't happen they're dissapointed. Then there are those who receive communion and rather then focus on the end result are enjoying the moment they believe they are communing with Jesus. Hm. Sort of similar, perhaps rather then focus on that end result of will this or won't this work, by focusing my thoughts on communing with the Divine I might just find what it is I am looking for.
Oooh cool thinks huh? (my brain gets a little overactive sometimes sorry)


They do indeed, and sometimes not so little :P The thing to remember is that they aren't they JUST to give assistance. One should make the effort to have a well rounded relationship with them.


Hm, this is true as well. Hey, what relationship works when it's purely a one sided what are you going to do for Me sort of thing?


IMHO, Magic works every single time, however, the results you want and the results you get are often not the same.


Sort of like, our prayers are always answered, just maybe not in the way we want them to be all the time?


By the way if you want you can pm me any time.


Thank you for that. I might take you up on that!! I figure as I am learning more about this side of pagan-osophy, for lack of a better word at hand, I am needing to be consistent with understanding energy, my energy and the energy around me. And also not having it run wild, but being grounded and under control with it. I can't imagine that energy that is just running rampant without direction would be very helpful hm?

Lady Fey
:elf: _wiz_

[Mouse]

I didn't read all the replies, so if I repeat something please forgive me.

Yes magick really does work. I've used magick for things that even coincidence could not fix. Yea, I've seen miracles. :)

I don't think that you need to believe your magick will work for it to actually work. All you need is a lot of focus. Magick can be tested like a science experiment. After a while you know it isn't coincidence, you recognise and take pride in your own work.

Rituals, IMO, are religious in nature. The reason behind them (for me) is always to honor and worship the Gods. For example, I'll cast a circle before I work a spell, but the ritual and the spell still remain seperate. A circle has many practical uses during spellcraft, but it wont do the spell for me, and I could do the spell more or less just the same without it. For me spells use a lot less props than ritual does, although I wont work just with the energy without at least a candle if whatever I'm affecting is not with me at the time.

take cares,
~mouse

[Grimr]

Magic is about altering the mind to a new level of conciousness.

Magic is also about altering reality of perception of yourself and others.

Magic has it's basis in psychology of the mind,physics,and some forms of science.

It is about constituting change through the mind in the enviroment of your reality.

[cheddarsox]

In my experience, magic works, except when it doesn't...and when it does...it usually doesn't work "magically" ala, wave the wand and poof! problem disappears.

Changing our intent, changes our way of behaving, changes how we interact with the universe, changes what we perceive as opportunities and what we "take" of what the universe offers us.

Case in point...I plugged along at my old job for four years. Then...various things caused dissatisfaction at work, and in my life. I wanted a way out, a promotion opened up, I went for it. Now I am in a new higher paying job...magic? Maybe..but there were lots of promotions that came up over four years that I didn't go for because I was happy where I was...you decide.

my definition of magic is believing in my convictions enough to bring them into reality.

Sometimes with great effort on my part, sometimes with more faith and less effort.

cheddar

[lady_fey]

I don't think that you need to believe your magick will work for it to actually work. All you need is a lot of focus. Magick can be tested like a science experiment. After a while you know it isn't coincidence, you recognise and take pride in your own work.

Hm, this is good to know. I would think, and this is just that a thought, that testing magic could be equatable to testing the Divine. Which, from my serious Christian days, was a no no. Or am I looking at that completly wrong?

Rituals, IMO, are religious in nature. The reason behind them (for me) is always to honor and worship the Gods. For example, I'll cast a circle before I work a spell, but the ritual and the spell still remain seperate.

I really appreciate this point. Thank you for it. Maybe part of me keeps reverting back to the thought that they are one in the same all the time, when indeed they are not.
That would lead me to this question:
A ritual can be defined in the pagan sense how???

Magic is about altering the mind to a new level of conciousness.

Magic is also about altering reality of perception of yourself and others.

Magic has it's basis in psychology of the mind,physics,and some forms of science.

It is about constituting change through the mind in the enviroment of your reality.

I need to mull this over a bit, in a few short sentences you have given me something to think about. You say it has it's basis in pyschology of the mind, physics and some forms of science, I can see physics/science. Psych is a new thought I hadn't considered too much.

In my experience, magic works, except when it doesn't...and when it does...it usually doesn't work "magically" ala, wave the wand and poof! problem disappears.

Changing our intent, changes our way of behaving, changes how we interact with the universe, changes what we perceive as opportunities and what we "take" of what the universe offers us.

Case in point...I plugged along at my old job for four years. Then...various things caused dissatisfaction at work, and in my life. I wanted a way out, a promotion opened up, I went for it. Now I am in a new higher paying job...magic? Maybe..but there were lots of promotions that came up over four years that I didn't go for because I was happy where I was...you decide.

my definition of magic is believing in my convictions enough to bring them into reality.

Sometimes with great effort on my part, sometimes with more faith and less effort.

Sorry to keep reverting back to Christian thoughts but this reminds me of the idea that God helps those who help themselves. Sort of along the idea of praying/raising energy in a spell (hope I worded that well) to lose weight, but then downing 2 litres of Mountain Dew and a Costco supply of Doritos, you're probably not going to lose the weight.
So, would it be more consistent to say then rather then a spell (in this instance) to lose the weight, working on the willpower and whatever is needed on your end to see you through to your goal?

This is really interesting, all the thoughts and comments are giving me quite a bit to think about.

Lady Fey
:RuNew:
:elf: :flowers:

[Grimr]

I need to mull this over a bit, in a few short sentences you have given me something to think about. You say it has it's basis in pyschology of the mind, physics and some forms of science, I can see physics/science. Psych is a new thought I hadn't considered too much.


If you need any more help I am around.

[Imbrium]

Warning! Long post. I’m sorry, but I was really wanting to get this off my chest.:awilly:

The posts that were made so far have been wonderful, but since it sounds like you are coming out of a Christian viewpoint, might I offer my experience with magic up as well, since I too (like many others) have come from one religion only to find themselves looking towards another.

Yes, I find that magic works, and so I’ll just give a sum up of my experiences.

Anyway…
For me, meditation was the beginning of the magic process, as well as writing down my dreams. I’m still amazed how my dream symbolism tells me what I’m really worried about, or what may be happening in my life. (I always dream about my ex before he calls me!)

Then, I figured, if my dreams are so connected to things, why…and what else is?

Then I began energy work. ..I’m going to segue here: Now when I was Christian from before, I was from a sect of “faith Christians” IE, those that believe that faith, as declared in the new testament, is not just believing in God, but the force of creation at work in your life. That faith is, “The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen” I have stories upon stories (and known many including myself) of people writing down a list of stuff they needed, praying and accepting that is was done for them in the name of Jesus, thanking God for it every day, and then getting it eventually. (What does that sound like to you?)

What really tweaked me off though, and one reason I left the church, was that this was happening despite some of these people being real nasty gits. (Story for another time)

OK, back to from where I was raising energy: I figured that if the connection were true for dreams, and also true for bodily energy, and that even the difficult Christians that I knew in the past could “stand in faith” for something and get it, then perhaps there was an underlying connection here.

I began research into things like quantum physics, first the real stuff, books written by Brian Green are awesome, and then to the new physics, books like The Self Aware Universe, The Holographic Universe, and The Field. Very good stuff. And too much to comment on here. Anyway, what the new physics books like to point out is that there is a real possibility of us being connected to everything else on a certain level, and that as a result, we can affect everything else, to a certain degree as well, from our own bodies, to seemingly coincidental situations in our lives.

Naturally the next step was to experiment with magic and magical systems, (or magick if you will, but either one doesn’t bother me. I’m just not a purist!) I found, that regardless of what I did, that the combination of ritual, energy raising, and intent was a powerful one. It’s possible that it works well for me since I have a background in “faith” and “belief”, and also have quite a bit of time spent in meditation and energy raising.

Why not just faith or intent? If you meditate regularly, you find yourself up against the “monkey mind”. The difficulty of holding your conscious mind clear of thoughts. It takes practice to do that, and to become very zen about things. I think that magical ritual, helps focus and control that part of you, as well as act as a real-world anchor for intent. That is to say, if you can dream something up and see it on the astral (I’m still working on that one, but have had minor success) then once you lose focus, that thought vanishes too. By connecting that thought to something physical, you have given your intent a resting place. (I would like to add that a very, very experienced meditator or practicioner of energy work could probably hold intent with will alone. But boy, is that a challenge!)

I would like to add a point too, as well as a story. About two years ago, my ex had gotten into our car after I had driven it. My Aqua CD (lol!8O )was still in the cd player, and it annoyed the hell out of him so much, that while driving, he yanked the cd from the player and threw it out the window. The next time I got in the car, I just touched the player briefly, only to get an intese re-play of what just happened. When I came home I chewed him out for being so nasty, lol! He was so surprised! And so I believe, that during magic, like with the radio, your intent, kind of stays with the objects you are using…

I also think that also causes what people like to think of as “negative or positive vibes” in a place they encounter.


LOL! OH, boy, have I gone on and on. To summarize, I believe that magic works, and works for many of the reasons I have stated above. I have managed to get a few objects, some new friends, and some health by doing magical rituals. I believe that it is worth doing, and I believe that it is probably a good thing.

In the past I had one Christian pastor I really liked. He said that using your faith was something that we all did, all the time, whether we intended to or not. If you don’t focus it, you’re just letting that Godly part of you do nothing, or letting life run you. But if you focus and believe, then you shape your life, and as a good person, you are letting God into your life. I may not be Christian anymore, but I still find a lot of weight in that statement. Because, as an (hopefully) good person, I want to shape my life, and not have life shape me.

[lady_fey]

Wow!! That was long, but I enjoyed every sentence.
Yes, you could say I'm coming from a Christian background. And you sound a little like me.
One of the things that started to get to me as I was leaving the JW's, was that every time someone became a JW and had some 'extraordinary' tale to tell about how they found God and was led into this particular religion, they felt that this religion was being blessed.
Hm, ok, when I realized that there were many more people who had either been led Out of the JW's after heartfelt prayer and even more who were led into either a completely different religion following heartfelt prayer, I started wondering...
So like did God NOT like them or something? Were they not sincere enough or what? Ah, but you see, my very non jw husband had (has) an energy theory that I finally had to start thinking about. And wallah, it made sense all of a sudden.
(don't know if that's how to spell wallah, as in pow, kazaam, poof etc)
So, I think you make a great point.
In all truthfulness I'm not clear about Faith Christians. That sounds like a really interesting religion.
Reminds me of some of the Christians I've talked with. But I don't know if they are the same.


Why not just faith or intent? If you meditate regularly, you find yourself up against the “monkey mind”. The difficulty of holding your conscious mind clear of thoughts. It takes practice to do that, and to become very zen about things. I think that magical ritual, helps focus and control that part of you, as well as act as a real-world anchor for intent. That is to say, if you can dream something up and see it on the astral (I’m still working on that one, but have had minor success) then once you lose focus, that thought vanishes too. By connecting that thought to something physical, you have given your intent a resting place. (I would like to add that a very, very experienced meditator or practicioner of energy work could probably hold intent with will alone. But boy, is that a challenge!)



This was well worded. Leads me to a question:
I've been slowly developing a theory (which to some of you might be old news but hey I'm slow at this)...
Now, there are the various elements, and 'tools' and whatnot that are just generally accepted as being symbolic and/or used for a specific purpose...
Since people have been doing this now for several years and in some instances many centuries. Herbs being known for particular spiritual properties and stones/gems being known for theirs.
Is it that they genuinely do have these properties or is it that the energy that has been concentrated on towards them that it has led to well, reality?

I began research into things like quantum physics, first the real stuff, books written by Brian Green are awesome, and then to the new physics, books like The Self Aware Universe, The Holographic Universe, and The Field. Very good stuff. And too much to comment on here. Anyway, what the new physics books like to point out is that there is a real possibility of us being connected to everything else on a certain level, and that as a result, we can affect everything else, to a certain degree as well, from our own bodies, to seemingly coincidental situations in our lives.


I have one book by Brian Green that I still have to read. It's on my list, which is rapidly growing. I have found the same idea regarding interconnectedness.

I have to say, these posts have really had me thinking. I'm trying to figure out where the best place to start really is. I suppose the idea of working with magic is intriguing, but I guess I am moving towards the point of wanting to not just be able to Do so, but to appreciate it and respect it in its entirety. Seems like there is so much to it, but not that complicated really.
Taking the scientific route in the beginning makes sense. But that's only my point of view.


Oh yeah many witches start out as skeptics. Christopher Penczak started out that way you can read an interview if you want.

http://twpt.com/penczak.htm

I read this article last night and found it to be really interesting. I thought he made a good point about having a teacher is helpful. I suppose part of me gets a little leary about seeking out others in my particular area that could be of help, because I am well, a little cautious with any religious 'authority' or persons who claim such.

Hm, now what does one do? Read everything I can? Jump in with two feet? Tiptoe into the water? Dive?
Lady Fey
:twitch:
:elf: (edited to say I think this post was waaaaay longer)

[MoonDragn]

I want to add something about the quantum physics part. Every little molecue is made up of little quarks that have different possible states. If you map all the possible states you come up with a state map or eigenvalue.

What I believe is that the human mind can not only read the state of eigenvalues of molecues, but can in some cases affect them. Changing the state of a molecue can lead to altering reality including moving objects, etc. This can also lead to a communication path with other minds. Sometimes magic is like a email virus you send out that affects other minds to work towards your expected result.

This leads back to the whole human astral plane internet theory, that our minds create a sort of virtual reality where things created there can affect reality.

[Imbrium]

This was well worded. Leads me to a question:
I've been slowly developing a theory (which to some of you might be old news but hey I'm slow at this)...
Now, there are the various elements, and 'tools' and whatnot that are just generally accepted as being symbolic and/or used for a specific purpose...
Since people have been doing this now for several years and in some instances many centuries. Herbs being known for particular spiritual properties and stones/gems being known for theirs.

Yes, I think that's a very good probablility. When you consider that the idea of time in regard to physics seems to be nonexistant, then you have to wonder if the two are connected.

Hmmm..that wasn't very clear. What I mean is, is that when you try to study time, physicists began to realize that time might just be limited to our human perceptions. That on a quantum level, time might not exist at all as we know it. Now, for example, many people believe that red is the color for passion, anger and desire. If intent changes our world, and there is no time barrier, then you are essentially taking part in a "group belief" that may have more impact because so many people believe it, and it's all occuring right now, on the quantum level.

Donald Michael Kraig, who has authored the book Modern Magick, stated that a person can affect himself more, by imagining (during a ritual) that he is going back in to his own past, and changing things.

On top of that, some healing experiments have done the same thing.

I have to say, these posts have really had me thinking. I'm trying to figure out where the best place to start really is. I suppose the idea of working with magic is intriguing, but I guess I am moving towards the point of wanting to not just be able to Do so, but to appreciate it and respect it in its entirety. Seems like there is so much to it, but not that complicated really.
Taking the scientific route in the beginning makes sense. But that's only my point of view.

LOL! Truly, though, it's a logical point of view. I also think it helps keep you grounded in reality just a bit, But that's just my humble opinion.

I read this article last night and found it to be really interesting. I thought he made a good point about having a teacher is helpful. I suppose part of me gets a little leary about seeking out others in my particular area that could be of help, because I am well, a little cautious with any religious 'authority' or persons who claim such.

I agree, as I've been mislead by many a religious authority. 8O (Awww, man) But I believe that you can go within, and that with time, find your calling, so to speak. I have found, that once I was a little more sensitive to life, as it were, that it was a little easier to filter out all the false information that comes my way. I.E...It's a lot harder to be fooled by "the religious authority"...heh, heh, and there are alot of them out there.

Hm, now what does one do? Read everything I can? Jump in with two feet? Tiptoe into the water? Dive?
Lady Fey
:twitch:

:lol: If you start down this road, you'll be learning until the day you pass over. From my own personal experience, daily meditation and energy raising are the most essential ingredients to any path. To be able to focus your mind, and remember your dreams, (starting a dream journal is helpful) and become sensitive to living in the now.
David A. Cooper, a rabbi, wrote a book on meditiation and retreats called a heart of stillnes. (OH, man, I read too much!) It's an awsome book, only on the meditation practice.

As far as energy raising, there are also a myraid of systems. I've tried a lot of different ones, but I like, really, really like Robert Bruce's method. It's totally unorthidox, but non visual, and much easier for me to do. I also find it surprisingly effective.

Here's some basic info on this page:
http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=18

Nonetheless, that's only a suggestion. The real way to find out is to dive within and seek answers from your inner self. Don't make my mistakes and try to seek out a guru first. I just ended up in one cult like environment after another until I finally figured out that . (oh man, I feel like such a dumb-butt, looking back on it all)

Read, read, and then remain impartial, come to your own conclusions. Close your eyes and quite your mind and be led into the direction you should go.

As far as magic practice goes....lol:awilly: , There are so many systems and so much contradicting info, that if you don't have a good base, you end up getting info overload. I'm so awful about that, I have to follow the KISS method of magical practice.

OH, no..long post again! By the way, I am fairly unorthadox, so for other's that disagree with me, so sorry. It's just that I like to experiment, and do what I feel works for me. Tis just how I am.


:elf: (edited to say I think this post was waaaaay longer)

:wave:Now that I think of it, there is so much information out there, that one of these days, I'm going to need a spare bedroom just to house a personal library. ...lol, I'm so silly.

[Sage Rainsong]

Hm, now what does one do? Read everything I can? Jump in with two feet? Tiptoe into the water? Dive?
Lady Fey

When it comes to gathering information then I say jump in it with two feet and learn all you can. Personally I think that you should get a basic understanding of Paganism Wicca magic ect and if you feel the need for a teacher, tiptoe lightly when looking. A good teacher is not an "authority" figure in most pagan religions. This is because there is a strong belief that no one needs a mediating figure with the divine. Instead a Priest/ess is more of a master of ceremonies. The "authority," if they have any, is based more on respect for their experience rather than doctrine (in a good group anyway).So therefore, its okay if someone calls themselves a High Priest or priestess (assuming they really are one of course). It doesn't make them better than you, just more experienced. But of course be careful of people who claim too many titles or have these grand notions of power. Good luck. Oh and by the way that particular authors book "The Inner Temple of Witchcraft" is based on his classes. I do know this first hand so he is not lying; not that you know me or anything so I'm not sure how much my word counts lol.

[WitchCraftWeaver]

Someone casts a spell to bring $$ their way.
Two days later they get an unexpected check in the mail.
Was it the spell or was it coincidence?

IF it were the spell, I suppose I would be of the opinion that it would be a matter of the energy that was put into ritual, no matter how big or small, that altered the course of events.
But how does one know?

That's why I am asking, how do those on the board who practice magic, know what is and what is not.
Lady Fey
:elf:
(on a side note: peacock just looked at your site, you are incredibly talented.)


YEP, it does work. My proof... the new 2005 Outback sitting in my garage. My old one was beginning to have problems, I wanted my first ever new car, I did a spell (after 5 attempts and 5 turn downs) and within 4 months I was driving the new one. :)

[Grimr]

I like to see it this way.

The universe is one great cosmic wheel of motion with different parts that interact with each other that constitutes the universe.

We as human beings are naturally inclined to be a part of this system that is in perpetuated motion.

Since our own creation and the creation of our world we as human beings have vital divine powers of creation and cosmic energy within us.

If the universe has divine properties to it would it not make sense that all the many creations retain some in themselves as well?

We are also a vital part of this motion that is the universe.

There is so much of our species that we know so little about and I am betting we have alot to learn of our spiritual energies within us too.

[Mouse]

Hm, this is good to know. I would think, and this is just that a thought, that testing magic could be equatable to testing the Divine. Which, from my serious Christian days, was a no no. Or am I looking at that completly wrong?

There are three places to draw energy from. Your self, nature, and the Gods. The first two can be used to feul experiments, but if you're working with divine energy you have to ask for it, and you need to have a damn good reason for them to actually grant it. It's a bit like prayer really. You're asking God to fix things, rather than doing it yourself. Testing magick is just setting up a spell, doing it and then watching the results, testing the divine would be basically saying "If you love me you'll....<insert request here>"

I really appreciate this point. Thank you for it. Maybe part of me keeps reverting back to the thought that they are one in the same all the time, when indeed they are not.
That would lead me to this question:
A ritual can be defined in the pagan sense how???

I'm not sure all pagans would define ritual in the same way. It's rare you'll find a group of pagans who agree on much at all other than a love of nature. But my definition of ritual is much the same as a Christians. Things like comunion (sp) and when the priest draws a cross on your head on ash wensday (I'm sorry I have no idea what that is called) are rituals.

A ritual is like a play for the Gods to watch, you're doing it for them, not because you want something. A lot of pagans do rituals to honor the turning of the seasons, like the solstices and harvests, for example. Casting a circle is a ritual, because I'm building the temple for my Gods to come watch the play.

I'm hopeing I'm making sence this morning, lol. But basically, Ritual = to worship or honor someone or something.
Spell = to get something or create change.

BB*
~Miri

[lady_fey]

I want to add something about the quantum physics part. Every little molecue is made up of little quarks that have different possible states. If you map all the possible states you come up with a state map or eigenvalue.

What I believe is that the human mind can not only read the state of eigenvalues of molecues, but can in some cases affect them. Changing the state of a molecue can lead to altering reality including moving objects, etc. This can also lead to a communication path with other minds. Sometimes magic is like a email virus you send out that affects other minds to work towards your expected result.

This leads back to the whole human astral plane internet theory, that our minds create a sort of virtual reality where things created there can affect reality.
You said what I have wondered about in a much more scientific-ly elegant way. (Now I need to find my dictionary to look up quarks, :hahugh: ) The idea of possibly changing it's state is a pretty intersting and big idea, but why not?
What changes the state of a molecule in a well, non-magic-y sort of way?
Hmmm..that wasn't very clear. What I mean is, is that when you try to study time, physicists began to realize that time might just be limited to our human perceptions. That on a quantum level, time might not exist at all as we know it. Now, for example, many people believe that red is the color for passion, anger and desire. If intent changes our world, and there is no time barrier, then you are essentially taking part in a "group belief" that may have more impact because so many people believe it, and it's all occuring right now, on the quantum level.
Now, I have been reading a bit here and there about time (I owe Scientific American for that) (I think that's what it is called) This is something I hadn't considered That deeply and this is a really cool idea! Especially what you said following this regarding Kraig. (I'm beginning to get flashbacks of Somewhere in Time.)
On top of that, some healing experiments have done the same thing.
What do you mean? What sort of healing experiments?
daily meditation and energy raising are the most essential ingredients to any path. To be able to focus your mind, and remember your dreams, (starting a dream journal is helpful) and become sensitive to living in the now.
Dreams, I get very vivid dreams and have been tossing around the idea of starting a journal, now would be a good time wouldn't it? I think I'm going to make an outline from all the info here.
I looked at the site for Robert Bruce and seems pretty good, but I think my brain is starting to get tired. I'm printing out some of the pages and will look at it some more in the morning.
I'm so awful about that, I have to follow the KISS method of magical practice.
What's the KISS method?
When it comes to gathering information then I say jump in it with two feet and learn all you can.
That's good to hear, because all this info has sort of gotten me already started down the road a bit and I don't think I can back track and stick one toe in at this point, Lol.

This is because there is a strong belief that no one needs a mediating figure with the divine.

I think that is a one reason I am here. I was tiring of having to follow a leader all the time.
I think that a teacher or mentor of some sort has some good points to it, If the teacher is humble and not power crazy (like you mentioned) and is just genuinely interested in the spiritual growth of another and wants to help where possible. Seems like when it comes to magic there are some basic things to know and remember and those are things I would want to get right.
"The Inner Temple of Witchcraft" is based on his classes. I do know this first hand so he is not lying; not that you know me or anything so I'm not sure how much my word counts lol.
Well, so far so good, ya get a thumbs up from me!

YEP, it does work. My proof... the new 2005 Outback sitting in my garage. My old one was beginning to have problems, I wanted my first ever new car, I did a spell (after 5 attempts and 5 turn downs) and within 4 months I was driving the new one. :)

Congrats on the new vehicle!! But don't ya still have to make the car payments? :hehehehe:

The universe is one great cosmic wheel of motion with different parts that interact with each other that constitutes the universe.

We as human beings are naturally inclined to be a part of this system that is in perpetuated motion.

Since our own creation and the creation of our world we as human beings have vital divine powers of creation and cosmic energy within us.

If the universe has divine properties to it would it not make sense that all the many creations retain some in themselves as well?

We are also a vital part of this motion that is the universe.

Yep, I'm going to revert back to Christianity for a sec ...
One thing I started to think as I was exiting the JW's was if man was created in the image of God, and all things are the product of God, then it made sense to me that we would all have the same qualities as God.
Then that catapulted me into the energy thing even more.
Interesting the way you worded it. Thx for that.
(I'm feeling more and more at home here)

A ritual is like a play for the Gods to watch, you're doing it for them, not because you want something. A lot of pagans do rituals to honor the turning of the seasons, like the solstices and harvests, for example. Casting a circle is a ritual, because I'm building the temple for my Gods to come watch the play.


I can see that as I googled Summer Solstice and found this place. I was wanting to know a bit more about the traditions surrounding it, it's history because I felt that this was (is) going to be my 'thing' for the Divine to say thank you and well, commune with the Gods for a bit. I suppose I hadn't thought of it as ritual.

The first two can be used to feul experiments, but if you're working with divine energy you have to ask for it, and you need to have a damn good reason for them to actually grant it. It's a bit like prayer really.

Well, this works for me. I have been thinking and thinking about what I would work magic for and for the life of me, the only things I can come up with are healing matters for my friends. In the past I have used prayer for that, but pulled away from that when I wasn't sure if I could continue to pray in that particular manner any longer seeing as my faith was shifting from one way of thinking to another. (hope that makes sense) So, I am assuming that working magic for healing for friends would count?
(One just had a mastectomy yesterday, another just finished radiation and is continuing with chemo)

I hope my responses made sense to everyone. I'm really quite tired tonight. It's about 1/4 to eleven pm.
I think I'm going to print out all the responses and keep reading and stay open to the Spirits guidance and wheresoever I am led, so be it.
I am thinking like a good general outline of where to start and how to go about this.
Start a dream journal.
If there are any other ideas on what I should keep in mind, let me know!
This forum has great info, I keep referring to it. I work on the comp in the afternoon especially. Mostly with graphics type stuff and when my eyes get a bit weary, I take a break and read up here.
Ok, off to sleep!
thx all
Lady Fey:elf: :flowers:
ps What the hay is this:
:blor:

[Imbrium]

What do you mean? What sort of healing experiments?

[quote]Okie dokie:

In a double blind, randomised controlled trial published in the British Medical Journal, 3393 adult patients who were admitted to an Israeli hospital between 1990 and 1996 suffering from blood infections, were randomly divided into two groups. One group (the intervention group) received intercessory prayer for their well being and full recovery. When their hospital mortality rates, length of stay in hospital and duration of fever were analysed and compared with a control group it was found that length of hospital stay and fever duration were significantly shorter. What is really astonishing, however, is that the prayers were said in July 2000 (4-10 years after the infection), in other words the effect appears to be retroactive (i.e. working backwards in time)
(BMJ 2001;323:1450-1451).




What's the KISS method?

Oh, it's the "keep it simple, stupid!" method :lol: I'm a person that is easily distracted by too much information, and what I meant was, that I like to not go overboard with magic and practices, and most of what I do is very streamlined. I am a single mother with two children, and do my best to keep my spiritual practices grounded in the day to day.

How does that saying go?

Before enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water.
After enlightenment: chopping wood, fetching water.


Plus, to be honest, I'm just a shade lazy. The idea of a four hour ritual, with robes, incense, and chanting just doesn't appeal.

[Grimr]

You said what I have wondered about in a much more scientific-ly elegant way. (Now I need to find my dictionary to look up quarks, :hahugh: ) The idea of possibly changing it's state is a pretty intersting and big idea, but why not?
What changes the state of a molecule in a well, non-magic-y sort of way?

Now, I have been reading a bit here and there about time (I owe Scientific American for that) (I think that's what it is called) This is something I hadn't considered That deeply and this is a really cool idea! Especially what you said following this regarding Kraig. (I'm beginning to get flashbacks of Somewhere in Time.)

What do you mean? What sort of healing experiments?

Dreams, I get very vivid dreams and have been tossing around the idea of starting a journal, now would be a good time wouldn't it? I think I'm going to make an outline from all the info here.
I looked at the site for Robert Bruce and seems pretty good, but I think my brain is starting to get tired. I'm printing out some of the pages and will look at it some more in the morning.

What's the KISS method?

That's good to hear, because all this info has sort of gotten me already started down the road a bit and I don't think I can back track and stick one toe in at this point, Lol.

I think that is a one reason I am here. I was tiring of having to follow a leader all the time.
I think that a teacher or mentor of some sort has some good points to it, If the teacher is humble and not power crazy (like you mentioned) and is just genuinely interested in the spiritual growth of another and wants to help where possible. Seems like when it comes to magic there are some basic things to know and remember and those are things I would want to get right.

Well, so far so good, ya get a thumbs up from me!

Congrats on the new vehicle!! But don't ya still have to make the car payments? :hehehehe:

Yep, I'm going to revert back to Christianity for a sec ...
One thing I started to think as I was exiting the JW's was if man was created in the image of God, and all things are the product of God, then it made sense to me that we would all have the same qualities as God.
Then that catapulted me into the energy thing even more.
Interesting the way you worded it. Thx for that.
(I'm feeling more and more at home here)

I can see that as I googled Summer Solstice and found this place. I was wanting to know a bit more about the traditions surrounding it, it's history because I felt that this was (is) going to be my 'thing' for the Divine to say thank you and well, commune with the Gods for a bit. I suppose I hadn't thought of it as ritual.

Well, this works for me. I have been thinking and thinking about what I would work magic for and for the life of me, the only things I can come up with are healing matters for my friends. In the past I have used prayer for that, but pulled away from that when I wasn't sure if I could continue to pray in that particular manner any longer seeing as my faith was shifting from one way of thinking to another. (hope that makes sense) So, I am assuming that working magic for healing for friends would count?
(One just had a mastectomy yesterday, another just finished radiation and is continuing with chemo)

I hope my responses made sense to everyone. I'm really quite tired tonight. It's about 1/4 to eleven pm.
I think I'm going to print out all the responses and keep reading and stay open to the Spirits guidance and wheresoever I am led, so be it.
I am thinking like a good general outline of where to start and how to go about this.
Start a dream journal.
If there are any other ideas on what I should keep in mind, let me know!
This forum has great info, I keep referring to it. I work on the comp in the afternoon especially. Mostly with graphics type stuff and when my eyes get a bit weary, I take a break and read up here.
Ok, off to sleep!
thx all
Lady Fey:elf: :flowers:
ps What the hay is this:
:blor:






Yep, I'm going to revert back to Christianity for a sec ...
One thing I started to think as I was exiting the JW's was if man was created in the image of God, and all things are the product of God, then it made sense to me that we would all have the same qualities as God.
Then that catapulted me into the energy thing even more.
Interesting the way you worded it. Thx for that.
(I'm feeling more and more at home here)



Are you Christian?

I welcome you here.

I am new here myself and I like this site very much.

It is a good internet community.

[lady_fey]

Imbrium:
Now that healing experiment is just wild. How cool though? And it does make all the more reason to really look at the space/time thing. Wow!
KISS method sounds like a good one. Printed out a bunch of stuff from here and witchvox. Came down with the flu yesterday and am having a tough time keeping my mind focused on much, just too tired. So hopefully I can start reading again tonight or tomorrow, it's just calling for me to read it! Lol. Found a bunch of witchcraft 101 stuff at witchvox. Should be interesting.

Dracon:
Am I Christian now? Hm, I've been trying to define that. I don't believe Jesus was/is God. I think of Jesus as being a created being and the bible as being a book that the various leaders started to put together to define Christian orthodoxy. Thus they left out various gnostic writings that would have muddied the interpretation of the mainstream Christians. If we can indeed say there was one mainstream group...
I do belive Christ existed. I think that I would have stuck with the Catholic Church had there not been so many things that bothered me. I think I will still attend Mass, but I don't know if I would call myself Christian!
I suppose that would be because while I still treasure the teachings of Jesus as relayed to us by others, I find that I have a difficult time accepting the bible as being the literal word of God and that I should accept the writings of Genesis as literal. So if I don't believe Genesis is literal, then understanding the purpose for the torture and death of Jesus becomes much more difficult.
So if I don't believe all that, but still have found a measure of truth to his teachings, can I call myself a Christian? Should I? Don't know.
Whew... sorry for the rant! Lol, you asked a good question that I've been pondering myself.
I agree this is a good internet community. The info and support here is good.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this!!!

Ok, gotta lay down for a bit.
The flu sucks.

Lady Fey:elf: :flowers:

[Imbrium]

Ok, gotta lay down for a bit.
The flu sucks.

Lady Fey:elf: :flowers:

I hate the flu! Hope you get better soon and can get some rest.

:hugz:

[lady_fey]

Thanks Imbrium!
Feeling much better today. I pulled up some good info on witchvox and last night had a chance to look it over.
In combination with the info you guys have given me I think I have a better idea what 'this' is about.
There are some good articles regarding magic and witchcraft apart from the wiccan religion and the tools of the trade.

Seems like this will take me into much deeper waters then what I may be used to. Should be intersting!!!

Lady Fey:elf: :flowers:

[Rowan MoonDragon]

Its been very interesting reading this thread. My opinion...yes it works. It may not be the way you wanted it, but it does work. I've had friends get disappointed because their spells didn't work the way they wanted them too. I've told them that it worked just not the way they were supposed to and then several months later, when they were working on the same issue, still performing a spell, they actually got better results than what they originally wanted. To me, parts of magic are part of ay religion. The results of prayer are magic. The prayer was answered. Spells are just more focused prayer. By getting all of the tools and other things that may be "necessary", you are putting your intention out there more than just a simple prayer may do. Not to say that prayer is not important or doesn't work, because it definitely is and I do use it. Especially when I'm in a place where I cant perform a ritual or a spell, like at a hospital. I prayed when my dad was in the hospital. For me, it's not that you pray, its who you pray too. Christians pray to the christian God...I pray to Spirit, or Hecate (the Goddess I work with) or my spirit animal. Praying is still praying, no matter who you pray too. An spells are just a more focused prayer. Liek I said, when you are getting the things "necessary" together, your intent is released into the heavens. While you are shopping for the correct herb and candles, your intent is traveling there. While you are setting up getting ready for your spell, more intent is going out there. Then actually performing the spell, even MORE is going out there. Now, magic is much more than praying and performing spells. There are many aspects of magic that in all honesty I haven't experienced much with because I am still quite the novice after 10 years.

[lady_fey]

Liek I said, when you are getting the things "necessary" together, your intent is released into the heavens. While you are shopping for the correct herb and candles, your intent is traveling there. While you are setting up getting ready for your spell, more intent is going out there. Then actually performing the spell, even MORE is going out there.
One of the things I was thinking about while I was down w/ the flu, was the intent issue.
One can go through the motions of any ritual, prayer or anything, say the words, do the actions and whatever, but if their intent is not true, I assume that the actions/words will be null and void.
It starts with intent. Sort of like Buddhism, Right Intent.
When your intent is true and you're honest about it, I can see why what you said would be so effective!

Lady Fey
:elf: :flowers:

[Grimr]

Imbrium:
Now that healing experiment is just wild. How cool though? And it does make all the more reason to really look at the space/time thing. Wow!
KISS method sounds like a good one. Printed out a bunch of stuff from here and witchvox. Came down with the flu yesterday and am having a tough time keeping my mind focused on much, just too tired. So hopefully I can start reading again tonight or tomorrow, it's just calling for me to read it! Lol. Found a bunch of witchcraft 101 stuff at witchvox. Should be interesting.

Dracon:
Am I Christian now? Hm, I've been trying to define that. I don't believe Jesus was/is God. I think of Jesus as being a created being and the bible as being a book that the various leaders started to put together to define Christian orthodoxy. Thus they left out various gnostic writings that would have muddied the interpretation of the mainstream Christians. If we can indeed say there was one mainstream group...
I do belive Christ existed. I think that I would have stuck with the Catholic Church had there not been so many things that bothered me. I think I will still attend Mass, but I don't know if I would call myself Christian!
I suppose that would be because while I still treasure the teachings of Jesus as relayed to us by others, I find that I have a difficult time accepting the bible as being the literal word of God and that I should accept the writings of Genesis as literal. So if I don't believe Genesis is literal, then understanding the purpose for the torture and death of Jesus becomes much more difficult.
So if I don't believe all that, but still have found a measure of truth to his teachings, can I call myself a Christian? Should I? Don't know.
Whew... sorry for the rant! Lol, you asked a good question that I've been pondering myself.
I agree this is a good internet community. The info and support here is good.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this!!!

Ok, gotta lay down for a bit.
The flu sucks.

Lady Fey:elf: :flowers:

Well you sound friendly so I hope you enjoy your stay.

[MankyCat]

Okay... here's my pop shot at the question...


Magic works. Now how it works is dependent on your belief in it. And a lot of times, it might also work in ways that you don't expect. I've learned to be careful. And to be willing to deal with the consequences (whether I do the working or not, whether I choose action or inaction).

Doubt will only work against you. Your doubt and the doubt of others. If you start questioning if what you did will really work, or if it's in your head, then your workings will be less effective, will alter, or will fizzle. Telling others increases the chance of doubt on their side which may affect your workings as well. Their thoughts can work with you or against you. To me, a spell is a fragile thing, like the threads of a spiderweb. Fragile, but can be powerful.

I also believe that magic is based mostly on your own Will. You don't need tools and such. You can be just as effective sitting and focusing your energy as you can be with all the best tools in the world. But it takes a lot of practice and belief to get to that point. You have to be able to make the logical conscious mind believe what the creative subconscious mind is doing makes total sense and will work. In my beliefs, the success of magic mostly resides in being able to focus both the conscious and subconscious on getting the desired results in ways that are not necessarily tangible. A lot of times, tools will aid in this. If you go through the motions, memorize the properties of certain items and use the ones that are "correct" for your workings, chant a particular set of words or even simply speak or write what your intentions are, your conscious mind is more likely to have an easier time believing that your workings makes some sort of scientific sense. Me? I use tools. I like them and they appeal to the child in me that always loved that sort of thing.

As someone else said, tools and items can have their own energy that can aid your workings, they can also hinder them. My thoughts are most things have a Will of some sort. And energy that resides in them. Obviously certain things are easier to feel this in... like crystals, herbs, and so forth. There are also things that reside around us (on our plane of existence, in another, or in between). Their Will is also just as important (hence my use of bubbles and circles for higher workings).

I also believe in wish thought and such. If you wish something hard enough, your focusing your will on it. Not much different than casting a smaller spell, only that your conscious mind might think that you are insane for thinking such things. Ever think about someone so hard you can barely stand it and you don't know why you can't stop... then they contact you out of no where? Sure you could say coincidence or that you predicted it. Sure either is possible (though I don't really believe in coincidence much... cute notion that it is). But in my beliefs you just as likely made it happen.

And thoughts are such a weird thing. By writing them for only yourself to see, you make them real. You bring them into reality. The same applies to telling someone your thoughts... except you are adding their energy to it, because now it is real to them too. Words have power, spoken or written. If we are worlds unto ourselves, then by speaking your thoughts to another, that thought will now exist in two internal worlds (yours and theirs)... that's not even taking into account the external world and all the Wills that are around you that now know for sure. Oi... I should stop there before I get too confusing. It all makes sense if I start from the beginning, but I don't think that's necessary.

Back on track.

Writing out my intentions and goals and desires on paper in as much detail as possible (while leaving some room for the magic to 'breath') is something that has always worked for me. Focusing the mind on the goals by forcing it to logically think things out and operate my body over the process of writing out it all out (as cleanly, nicely, and clearly as possible), bringing my intentions into this reality and out of just being a thought, then going through the motions of building the energy and releasing it in whatever way I see fit (usually burning the paper or some such), and then not allowing myself to doubt what I had just worked on and that it will bring results... you get the idea. (And no, I don't always work this way, but it explains pretty well.)

I've had results. Results that others could not deny, be it my exes, my friends, my mother, my sisters, and so forth, regardless of their beliefs or religions. Some even have asked for workings and were involved. (I very rarely will do a working without the requesting party's involvement and with very good reason.)

So... I hope that helps you. If not, I apologize for the long winded response.