Psi vs Magic

[Unlogic]

A question, for anyone who feels like throwing in their two cents...

How closely do you think psi is related to magic? Do you think they are essentially the same thing, utterly unrelated, different parts of a whole, or what? What do you think is the difference, or seperation between them, if there is one?

I'll add my own thoughts after hearing a few thoughts of others...

[Mouse]

Interesting question!

I use both. Psi, to me, is like a muscle that most people don't use often, where magick is the use of that muscle to create change.

Psi is the gym, magick is the construction site.

I think a lot might depend on what you want to use it for, and the two sometimes over lap.

[Garm]

We would have to more precisely define the two, especially magic.

The way the word is often used is inclusive enough to cover psi

But magic is a catch all for some very unrelated phenenemon

one such phenom might be defined as applied synchroncity

In practice I approach that with concepts to be written into the grand narrative and it is different from surface to surface psychism which I am not very good at

[Unlogic]

Psi, to me, is like a muscle that most people don't use often, where magick is the use of that muscle to create change.
Could you elaborate as to what exactly you mean? That psi is used to perform magic?

We would have to more precisely define the two, especially magic.

The way the word is often used is inclusive enough to cover psi

But magic is a catch all for some very unrelated phenenemon

one such phenom might be defined as applied synchroncity

In practice I approach that with concepts to be written into the grand narrative and it is different from surface to surface psychism which I am not very good at

Psi is typically referring to three general categories of things; telepathy, clairvoyance, and telekenesis, along with a pile of related and derivative effects thereof (like precog and pyrokinesis).

Magic is much harder to define, yes. Hopefully someone with some more experience than I would like to make some comments there...

Last fall I wrote a research paper on Synchronicity, referring primarily straight to Jung...


My own experiences have included some telepathy, remote viewing, various bits of energy work, and reading tarot cards, so that's all I can very well contribute to the discussion. The strongest commonality between all of them is that they require a lot of trust in intuition to make use of (which I suspect is very close to being the "muscle" which Mouse is referring to).

I don't even know how much of that to consider as magic or not. Generally I consider it to be magic when I go so far as to "cast a spell" in one sense or another, trying to create or change something, which energy work sometimes includes, and sometimes doesn't. I really have no idea where telekinesis falls, and the one time I've done remote viewing (ie clairvoyance) I cast a spell to empower it, so it falls ever more confusingly into cracks in the middle.

*shrug* That's why I'm asking for more opinions.

[MerryBe]

In my experience, I would say that the two are unrelated. One can do magic without the use of Psi, or vise versa.

To use magic I find one need's a concious thought and considerable intent. Although some thoughts may be subconscious which may or may not cause something to happen for good or for bad. However, there is a paradigm between the two.

If I use telekenesis, to move an object, some might consider that magic. In my life, it is not magic but merely a way of using my own energy to move something.

To me, magic means to cause things to happen that I want to happen but also what I cannot do alone without the help of magic.

Another thought is Tarot Cards, which I am one who believe's it is a way to unlock or tap into the subconsious. The subconsious cannot be controlled, however the concious mind can. I can read cards however, I also use my gift of "sight" into that person's reading. There are some true psychic's, however the media and other nonsense out there make it bad for the truely "gifted" ones.

I use both, I am gifted in many forms of Psi, however, that is not something I can completely control ie. turn on, turn off, limit, whereas the use of Magic in the true sense of the word, is a definate planned action.

Also, as another person before me said, many use the term magic as a catch-all or a blanket term.

To sum it up I believe magic is a consious effort to change something, and the Psi in the subconsious cannot be changed.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Merry

[Unlogic]

If I use telekenesis, to move an object, some might consider that magic. In my life, it is not magic but merely a way of using my own energy to move something.

Out of curiosity, though its OT, can you (or anyone you know personally) use TK on a scale where its actually useful (like picking up those keys that just fell behind your desk that you can't quite reach, or something of the sort), or is it just fun and entertaining to play with? (I don't have any experience with TK yet)


Another thought is Tarot Cards, which I am one who believe's it is a way to unlock or tap into the subconsious. The subconsious cannot be controlled, however the concious mind can. I can read cards however, I also use my gift of "sight" into that person's reading. There are some true psychic's, however the media and other nonsense out there make it bad for the truely "gifted" ones.

I agree with you on that... my experience with Tarot cards is that they seem to echo the form of the thoughts of the shuffler. I have tried to do readings for others without their touching the cards before, but as far as I can tell the result becomes my thoughts about the person, rather than their thoughts in any sense. I don't know about using "sight", its all just intuition to me, whether or not you and I are referring to the same thing.

I use both, I am gifted in many forms of Psi, however, that is not something I can completely control ie. turn on, turn off, limit, whereas the use of Magic in the true sense of the word, is a definate planned action.

I have spoken with my mother and a close friend of mine telepathically before, deliberately and reliably, though they tend not to be reliable conversationalists, as they have a tendency to recieve messages I send them, and not always bother to reply in any fashion.

I don't where my "magical senses" fall with regard to psi vs magic, if either. I personally consider them an extension of psi, though I typically use them in conjunction with energy work. Most of the time they are fairly passive though, of things simply rising to attention, but I have made active use of it before, in the remote viewing I mentioned previously. Which would make it magic.

Oh gray vague borderlines...

[Mouse]

Could you elaborate as to what exactly you mean? That psi is used to perform magic?

Uh.. I can try! :hahugh:

I believe everyone has the ability to develop things like telepathy, telekenesis, sheilding etc. It's a talent, like dancing. Anyone can learn to do it, but some people will naturally be better than others.

Like a muscle, psi is part of the body that can be developed. Everyone has it.

Psi takes a lot of focus, effort and energy. So does magick. Magick can't be used to enhance Psi, but the skills gained with Psi can be used to aid magick.
For example, one of the first most basic things someone learns with psi is how to make a construct (aka "psi-ball"). To make a construct you draw energy and shape it, usually into a ball if you're a beginer. To charge a stone for use in a spell you can use the same technique - and because of all the psi practice you'll be quicker and more focused. A lot of spells don't work because they are simply not done properly. Psi is a good way to gain several of the skills required for magick.

Another difference I see is the different uses. Psi is great for communication (empathy, telepathy, programed constructs) and sheilding but not great for creating changes. Sheilding is another talent that can be used to boost magickal practice. There is nothing in psi (as far as I'm aware) that enables you to specify how you want a certain event to turn out or that can be used to attract money or love (aside from coercion<sp>).

I hope this makes a little more sence. If not lemme know. I'm examining my reasons as I explain them which isn't great for clear communication. :lol:

[Unlogic]

Uh.. I can try! :hahugh:

*snip*

I hope this makes a little more sence. If not lemme know. I'm examining my reasons as I explain them which isn't great for clear communication. :lol:

Hmm, by that definition, I've only used magic about 3 times ever, and just have a lot of psi experience... (2 of those may not even count either, and one of those didn't even work) I was going to object to "Magick can't be used to enhance Psi" from personal experience, except by your definition I used psi to enhance psi, so its no issue...

Thank you for clarifying.

[MerryBe]

Out of curiosity, though its OT, can you (or anyone you know personally) use TK on a scale where its actually useful (like picking up those keys that just fell behind your desk that you can't quite reach, or something of the sort), or is it just fun and entertaining to play with? (I don't have any experience with TK yet)


The answer is YES. I myself have used telekenesis. Mine didn't start out as fun and games though. If used for the heck of it, sure it can be entertaining, but also very draining in the long run. It does sap me physically. It can be used for good, depending on the mood I am in. However, and this is no joke, I have blown more light bulbs, blew out a TV, etc. when someone has angered me beyond my limits. It was not intentional however, all I had to do was to be near them. Trust me it's no fun. Only yesterday did I blow out a bulb on my son's flashlight when I read a letter that angered me. Now I have to find a bulb for it.

On a good note, I have turned on lights when needed, veered an out of control car from hitting a pedestrian, but as I said it happens so fast, there is really no time to even think.



I agree with you on that... my experience with Tarot cards is that they seem to echo the form of the thoughts of the shuffler. I have tried to do readings for others without their touching the cards before, but as far as I can tell the result becomes my thoughts about the person, rather than their thoughts in any sense. I don't know about using "sight", its all just intuition to me, whether or not you and I are referring to the same thing.


No, sight or seeing, as I refer to is, Clairvoyance or Clairaudience. I can do readings without anyone touching my cards, as well as reading without cards at all.


I have spoken with my mother and a close friend of mine telepathically before, deliberately and reliably, though they tend not to be reliable conversationalists, as they have a tendency to recieve messages I send them, and not always bother to reply in any fashion.

I don't where my "magical senses" fall with regard to psi vs magic, if either. I personally consider them an extension of psi, though I typically use them in conjunction with energy work. Most of the time they are fairly passive though, of things simply rising to attention, but I have made active use of it before, in the remote viewing I mentioned previously. Which would make it magic.

Oh gray vague borderlines...


I think if you read more on both subjects you might find what category you fall into.
It sounds to me as though you use materials to set the ambiance for Psi, and aren't actually using magic per se. It's kind of like psyching yourself up prior to what you do, at least that is how it appears to me.

I can see where the confusion lies though, as many seem to think that if I can cause the lights to flicker or shut em down in someone elses house, that I am using magic, which I am not.

Most can be blamed on the "hollywood" style umbrella term of magic. You know the kind of thing where you snap your fingers and bingo it happens!

Magic and rituals take some kind of time. There is a reason for the magic ...as in what you want to change, and why, then one meditates on it, prays/chants/ lights a candle, etc.

A good example is something that most children have done. A birthday cake with candles, a wish is made and they blow it out in the hopes that their desire comes true.


Just my 2 cents,

Merry




Merry

[jcldragon]

The difference between Psychic Abilities, & Magick, is the difference between Perception, & Implementation.

Magick is the employment of energies from the Higher Planes. Generally, this refers to conscious use, as in Spellwork, Visualization or Healing. However, the Cosmic Laws operate irregardless of our awareness of them. Our attitudes & beliefs draw situations into manefestation by the Law of Gravitation. Everybody is doing this constantly, whether they know it or not.

Naturally, this works out much better, when you understand this, because then you can choose what attitudes & beliefs you will hold. Developing an understanding of the nature of your motivations, will enable you to make conscious choises, and that will help you to NOT sabotage yourself. When people think negatively, they draw negative situations into their lives. When people think selfishly, they limit the possibilities available to them.

When you hold a positive attitude, then you will notice solutions to problems, and opportunities available to you. When you motivations are not selfish, then they are Universal, and everybody wins. We are at our greatest, when we are working on things that are larger than we are.

When the perceptive ability known as Intuition is focused upon the lower planes (the Material & Astral), one can see where energy is coming from, & where it needs to be directed. When Intuition is focused upon the higher planes, (the Mental & Spiritual), one can see into ones own nature, and gain Insight into all of the Processes of Life. Such Knowledge will profoundly change both the use, and the strength of the Magick you employ.

Insight when applied to how you live your Life, engages the Law of Momentum, and thereby propels you towards greater Insight. There is no limit upon this. Knowledge, Wisdom, & Love are Infinite. Focus upon them, and apply what you learn. Then, that which is Divine within you, will become manefest in the Material World.

[fangedeshana]

I see Psi and Magic as the same thing at the core: using my will, whether it be concious or subconcious, to make some kind of change.

You can develop Psi abilities and improove your skill with Magic by practice, some are harder for some than others, but essentially I think the difficultly comes down to practice, openess and if the technique resonates with you.

And I suspect that that mad almost no sense... but it's early. Where is the drowzy looking coffe mug emote.... lol