October 23

[powder_tears]

Okay, looking around the Internet, and various books, I've encountered a problem centering around October 23. Some sites/books say that a person born on this day is a Libra, and others say that that person would be a Scorpio. So I'm looking for opinions here, which one do you go by?

This isn't for me, by the way. My best friend was born on the 23rd, and I just wondered what his sign would be.

[ValD]

The Sun doesn't change signs at the same time and on the same date each year. The time is always different and there's sometimes a day's - or possibly two day's - difference, especially in Leap Years. That's why you get different dates in horoscope colums and the like.
The Sun enters Scorpio most years on October 23rd, but at different times. This year it will be at 13.26 GMT; next year, it will be 19.15 GMT; 2008 sees the Scorpio ingress on October 23rd yet again, but at 01.09 GMT. So a person born on that date could be either Libra or Scorpio. It depends on the time he was born.
So to establish the sun-sign of your friend, you need his date, time and place of birth.

[powder_tears]

Just out of curiousity, why does it matter when/where you were born?

[scorpiochick77]

That's a good question cause' it confuses me too. I have four differant astrology books and two say it's scorpio and the other two say libra. Maybe Keishan or Fluff could probably answer this cause' they're good at this sorta thing...i just know the basics.:)

[Shanti]

Scorpio cause I wanted to do the poll!!! :)
Libra if you feel more libraish!! LOL

[KEishin]

It would depend on the year in question and more importantly WHEN the person in question was born. Most ephemerides will only give the position for the day, which can be annoying when you are trying for this level of accuracy. In order to be certain, you need to account for the offset from GMT time and the latitude/longitude of the birth place. I usually work it out by hand quickly, which is enough to tell me.


I have a very quick method to tell the difference without needing logarithims and a calulator. It's not super accurate, but is enough to get a rough estimate: (using a midnight ephemeris)

1. Convert the birth time to GMT (1 PM = 13:00)

2. Subtract the correct birth time from midnight. This means if your corrected GMT is a PM birth, you subtract from the approaching midnight - Oct 24. (AM GMT births would add from midnight of the current day - Oct 23. (24:00 - 13:00 - 11hrs). This value tells you how far the Sun has moved from midnight to the birthtime.

3. The Sun moves an average of 1 degree a day, so that works out to 2.5 arc minutes for each hour. 11 hrs x 2.5 minutes = 28 minutes, give or take.

4. For a AM birth add it to the current date's position; PM birth subtract that from the approaching midnight. That's your answer :hahugh:


This is my mother's birthday and she is a Scorpio, but just barely. If she had been born 5 hours earlier she would have had a Libra Sun. :)

[Fluffmeister]

Just out of curiousity, why does it matter when/where you were born?

OK, the *when* you were born bit is easy. The Sun moves smoothly through the sky (OK, so it's us that's moving, but you know what I mean!) - it doesn't jump from day to day, so this year the Sun will be in Libra in the morning and won't move into Scorpio until early afternoon, as Val pointed out (13:26GMT, as she said). So someone born in the morning on 23 Oct this year will be a Libra; someone born in the afternoon a Scorpio. Next year, it will be different.

Now for the *where* you were born. When I said the Sun moves into Scorpio at 13:26 GMT, that's "Greenwich Mean Time" (Greenwich is in London). Most of the world isn't on Greenwich time. In fact, even London isn't on Greenwich time that time of year, because we have daylight savings time too! When the Sun moves into Scorpio and we in the UK are having our lunch, you guys in the US will be having breakfast. And the Ozzies will be down the pub having an evening drink. So the actual time on your clock (as opposed to GMT, which is a sort of universal clock) will differ from country to country; in the UK, 13:26GMT will be 14:26 British Summer Time - so anyone born in the morning in the UK will be a Libra and most people born in the afternoon will be Scorpio. 13:26GMT is 06:26PDT, so quite a lot of people born in the morning in SF will be Scorpio and everyone born in the afternoon will be; and 13:26GMT is 23:26 Australian Eastern time, so virtually everyone born on 23 October in Sydney will be Libra.

You need to know date, time and place of birth to really get the answer!

[ElvenDestiny]

I havnt read the other posts but if thats the situation you were born under, *between two signs* then that means you are on the cusp and both signs apply to you.

I was born August 23rd so I have the same problem. Although both horoscopes are always correct for me.

[KEishin]

I havnt read the other posts but if thats the situation you were born under, *between two signs* then that means you are on the cusp and both signs apply to you.

I was born August 23rd so I have the same problem. Although both horoscopes are always correct for me.
Actually this is not correct. There is no such thing as being "born on the cusp" anymore. Back in the old days before we had handy things like calculators and computers to aid in calculations, things were a lot fuzzier, so astrologers would have to fudge it a little.

We just had a discussion on this idea the other day: http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=131871

But if reading both 'scopes works for you, then by all means go for it!

[business voodoo]

first, keishin and fluff are absolutely correct, as usual ... and this has a bit of emotional energy from something totally unrelated so if it seems like i'm ranting, i'm not trying to, but it sure came out feeling that kind of way!

second ... i know this may open a can of worms, although i hope not and just take it for what it is ... my opinion ...

i would say, if the person is a conscious one (and i mean that sincerely, the person must be trying and actively pursuing their own consciousness), read it like libra as on that day no matter what time you are born, the sun in the sky would be traversing libra.

i don't know about anyone else, but reality is always best unless you want to live by someone else's designation of reality ... i mean there is a point in understanding it -- and i think it is very important to understand yourself in context to the tropical zodiac, but when you are dealing with your own self and your own consciousness, what is real? a tropical zodiac which tells us what is "real" in what we generally see and experience around us ... or do we want to know the truth ... some do and some don't. if you look in the sky on october 23 the sun is in libra ... you can't change that even if ptolemy was a brilliant man and our entire time system is based it.

a bit of a rant ... sorry ... if you are not the kind of person that would have taken the pill that sent Neo into wonderland (reference the matrix), please don't listen to me ... not that someone who doesn't listen to me wouldn't take the pill ... or that you ever need to listen to me ... it just my two cents ... use it however you want.

damn, this saturn/mars conjunction is really messin' with me, can you tell?

[moonbride]

I really don't know a think about astrology at all so this thread is fascinating to me. I was born on October 23. When I do read horoscopes, Scorpio has seemed to "fit" me more than Libra but I've always wanted to know what I'm really supposed to be looking at. I'd love to learn more.

[KEishin]

damn, this saturn/mars conjunction is really messin' with me, can you tell?
You and everyone else! :lol:
It's right over my natal Mars in my 3rd house, so I'm being veeeery careful while I'm driving. And once they're done messing with my Mars they're going to roll over my natal Saturn again.
Freakin' whee. :awilly: