Germanic Question

[Agaliha]

I've looked into my fathers ancestory (Cherokee) and part of my mother's (Russian/Ukrainian- Slavic) but not her German side.

So I started to think I should at least learn something about them-- the Germans-- as I am technically 1/4 German (though I don't like to admit it because I have issues with the country...Hitler and all of that...plus the language and everything is not appealing to me).
I feel closers to the Slavic side than the Germanic...

I'm more into the ancient Germany...before Hitler and all of that.
I'd like to know about their beliefs and practices, but I don't know where to start.

Should I read about Germanic Recon?
Are there different sects for different parts of the Germanic area?
And were Norse gods honored by German peoples in the mainland German lands? (this part confuses me)

Two names that are in my mom's side is Shevchenko and Zent. Shevchenko is Russian (my great grandparents of mom's side were Russian and German and immigrated over here), but from what I found about Zent it's Germanic. This one site said it was first found in the Austrian providences of Tyrol and Styria...but I don't know if my ancestors just got the name though marriage or if they were really from there.

Don't know if that makes a difference.

I'm not interested in practicing any of this in a religious way, I just want to learn more and understand.

Any links that might help are welcome!

[KellyP]

One of the most important things to realize is that what we consider Germany as a cohesive whole is a relatively new construct. Moving back a few hundred years you would run into an area better identified through its many "tribes" or subcultures: Frisians, Burgundians, etc. One of the best ways to to see this is to look at a site like Wikipedia and look at the "states" of modern Germany. Then just sort of follow the links and read what you find.

Do you know what regions of Europe the Zent family populated? A particular city? A time frame? All of these will help you focus your search.

[Driffinna]

I would recommend reading The Germania, by Tacitus. An ancient Roman historian's account of what the German tribes were like. Its not very long, only 176 pages and half of that is actually ,The Agricola which is about a governer in Britian and the Anglo-Saxons, but it is very informative. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0140442413/sr=8-4/qid=1151380796/ref=pd_bbs_4/103-6233023-6133406?ie=UTF8

[Agaliha]

Thanks everyone :)

Kelly: I'll see if I can find more about "Zent"

[Hærfest Leah]

I'm more into the ancient Germany...before Hitler and all of that.

That's what we all mostly study too, I could give a rats behind what Hitler did.

{SIZE=2]I'd like to know about their beliefs and practices, but I don't know where to start.

Ok Agaliha I'll help you as much as I can but I have only been studying Heathenry for a year myself. We have several very knowedgeable Heathens on the board here but I haven't seen them around much in a while it seems.

Should I read about Germanic Recon?

Whats you want to be learning about usually goes by the terms of Asatru, Heathenry, Anglo-Saxon Heathenry & Irminenshaft.

Are there different sects for different parts of the Germanic area?


Somewhat but they are pretty similar, then again some people may say their not. The Germanic area consists of northern and western Europe so mainly you get it divided in to Norse for Scandinavia, Anglo-Saxon or English Heathenism & Teutonic or Continental for mainland. The you have us Heathens who are in the US who can follow whatever they chose but some refer to it as Vinlandish I think.

And were Norse gods honored by German peoples in the mainland German lands? (this part confuses me)

Some were and some weren't. Some deities they had in commn but others they did not.

I'm not interested in practicing any of this in a religious way, I just want to learn more and understand.

Religion is a word easily tossed around. The majority of Heathens I've asked on this say they do not consider Heathenry a religion or even a spirituality. It's just how we live and believe.

Any links that might help are welcome!

There are many, one of the best places is to just start reading here.
http://www.asatru-u.org/beginner/asau-beginner-outline.htm

And read as many of these link as you can get to.
http://www.friggasweb.org/fwlinks.html

PM me any time and I'll help you as much as I can ok. I also work on Genealogy so I may be able to find you some useful info there.

[Agaliha]

Thanks for the help! :)

[Malcolm]

Germania

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/tacitus-germanygord.html



and some other heathen/asatru stuff that might interest you

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/ice/index.htm


Oh and by the way, welcome home.

[Eldred Grimm]

There is a lot of debate about where the German tribes came form but I think the latest info is that they came out from an island called Saknia that sits between Denmark and Sweden and moved south east towards the black sea Tactics tells us that there are 3 groups the north tribes the central tribes and the eastern tribes but when you read Tactics remember he was a Roman and it like reading about the American Indian written by a conquistador monk as I for one see the German tribes as the American Indian of northern Europe I would suggest a work by Jordan the deeds of the Goths here is a link to sacred texts is a grate on line ink

[Nitefalle]

[SIZE=2]So I started to think I should at least learn something about them-- the Germans-- as I am technically 1/4 German (though I don't like to admit it because I have issues with the country...Hitler and all of that...

I'm more into the ancient Germany...before Hitler and all of that.



Am I the only one disturbed and just a little offended by this statement?? To me, that's like saying "Well, I discovered one of my ancestors killed people three hundred years ago, so I've disinherited my entire family down to the last sibling" or "I don't like Indian food, so I hate the entire country and all of its inhabitants". Hitler does not equal the entire country of Germany. He was one bad person in history that did horrible things, but you're going to hold an entire country and its history responsible?

[Agaliha]

I'm sorry you were offened. That wasn't my goal.
This is all you need to know:

I do not hate Germany.
I do not hold Germany or Germans responsible for Hilter.
Yes, the recent history of the country (i.e Hilter) does disgust and distrube me. And yes, at times it's hard for me to get past it. Those are for personal reasons.
I believe I had a past live with negative experiences with Germans in the WW2 time period. The things that happened then and there disgust me to the core. I looked at a book about the Holocaust and puked. It's something that affects me. Very deeply.
I never did or said any of the things you mentioned in your post. That's just petty and stupid. Seriously.
I leave out my German ancestry not because of the German link to Hilter, but because I feel no connection there. My only German relative, my mother's father died way before I was born. I was never exposed to any German beliefs, customs and ways. It's totally absent from my life. To me that "1/4" is just a number. Out of sight, out of mind. If I was adopted or my mother didn't know about her father none of us would know about it. I know I have German ancestry, it just doesn't affect me. I don't place great importance on my ancestors, I don't honor them or pray to them. They're just there. ::shrug:: Some may find that disrespecful, that's fine. I don't. Honestly I don't feel any real connection to any of my ancestor, but if I were to chose I'd chose Cherokee and Russian because those are ones I am interested in. Also my mother who is 1/2 German doesn't even care. She doesn't care about the Russian 1/2 either. Perhaps if were had a faith that put more importance on ancestors we would, but we don't. Never have. It's not a huge, defining aspect of our lives.
Interest is the key word here. I am not interested in Germany past, present or future. Sure, the Hitler time period is something I'd like to avoid, but it's not what keeps me away from Germany. I just don't have any draw or interest there. Doesn't mean I hate Germans or the people or land. I never gave any thought it Greenland, doesn't mean I hate them. I have no interest in Asia, doesn't mean I hate Asians. China has female infantacide, I find it disgusting, doesn't mean I hate the Chinese. I just have no interest in Germany, and definately no interest in the Hitler time period. That's what my comment was about, though I realized it didn't come off that way.
So why then did I ask for info in this thread? Well because I recognized out of my lack of interest I have left those possible German ancestors out. I don't have to be interested to read, learn and research ancient German history. I just wanted to get a perspective of what they may have believed. Even though I don't even know if they called Germany their homeland. Even though they were all probably Christian. I thought I'd learn anyway.
I'm not racist. I'm not prejudice. I don't hold past actions to those alive today. I don't look at a German and seethe with hate. I don't say to a German, "sorry, but you're country and Hilter. Man, disgusting. Get away from me". ::rolls eyes:: That's just plain stupid.
Oh and I think the German language sounds gross. So what. It's not the most pretty langauge. I certianity never said that because I don't like the langauge I disinherited my ancestry. ::rolls eyes::
Did I word things wrong, perhaps. Is someone looking and reading too much into it, I think so. I've explained myself, it's not my fault that area and country hold no interest to me. I already explain it wasn't for personal spiritual beliefs/path.

[Nitefalle]

Good show. I see now where our wires got crossed, no hard feelings. :cheers:

[Agaliha]

:strike: I'm glad.
Next time perhaps ask for clarification before assuming someone is disinheriting and hating an ethnicity and ancestry. Okay. Thanks.
No hard feelings, eh. Heh. :lol:

[Carla O'Harris]

Am I the only one disturbed and just a little offended by this statement?? To me, that's like saying "Well, I discovered one of my ancestors killed people three hundred years ago, so I've disinherited my entire family down to the last sibling" or "I don't like Indian food, so I hate the entire country and all of its inhabitants". Hitler does not equal the entire country of Germany. He was one bad person in history that did horrible things, but you're going to hold an entire country and its history responsible?


One bad person in history? Are you kidding me? Hitler did it all by himself, eh? Gosh, too bad there was that one "bad apple".

Now of course I don't think all of Germanic history should be thrown out because of this --- that would be nonsensical and a shame --- I think here of JRR Tolkien's quote, "Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge--which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light." -- but on the other hand, the Nazi atrocities require a more in-depth analysis, assessment, and critique than simply blaming one guy.

[Carla O'Harris]

And were Norse gods honored by German peoples in the mainland German lands? (this part confuses me)

The following figures absolutely were :

Odin
Thor
Frigga/Jord
Sol
Mani
Mimir
Heimdall.

For these, there is ample Indo-European evidence, and came as part of the Indo-European heritage. (Although the names would be altered according to dialect : Odin/Woden/Wodan/Wotan, Thor/Thunor/Donar, etc.)

There is comparative evidence to suggest that :

Freyr/Freya was a part of the pantheon, and probably Njord as well.

[anasia*la*fae]

As many people have already pointed out, Germany only became "Germany" relatively recently- not too long before the whole Hitler deal from a historical perspective. If you want to think about it, the people in that area were Gauls for a long time, almost up through the turn of the first millenium before the big bad romans decided they wanted to burn everyone out, which meant that they practiced forms of what comes down today as Celtic magic. There were probably also those who came down directly from the north, depending on the time period, who would have practiced Norse magic, and those who wandered known, of course, as Gypsies practicing their magic also throughout that area. Gypsy magic would also tie in with the Slavic blood you have as well, if you want to start there.

Germany was really just the banding together of a bunch of tribes not unlike Scotland, but a larger area. That being said, when and where in Germany have a huge impact on what kind of magic was being practiced, if at all. After all, they did write the Mallificum Malicarum (sp?)- so many traces were erased due to fear and necessary secresy.
I am one quarter German as well. When I think of German magic, I tend to think of the Norse myself, due in majority to the fact that I am a linguist and have studied the language and have found that the root of some of their words similar to the names of Norse deities. However, because of my study of the history of the land, lingustically and historically, I feel that I am fulfilling the German side of my magic by delving into the Celtic, which I am as well.

[David19]

As many people have already pointed out, Germany only became "Germany" relatively recently- not too long before the whole Hitler deal from a historical perspective.

That's actually true, as one of my modules at university was German unification, it happened under Bismarck, i haven't got my notes with me so i can't remember the exact date but i think it was in the late 1800's (somewhere in the period of 1870 - 1890, i think).

Just wanted to add that :).