Christian/Pagan relationship ... about to crash? :<

[goDez]

Hey guys.. I've got somewhat of a problem :( I've been seeing my girlfriend for 1.5 years now. She is a christian, i'm pagan, and we know that of eachother. However, she has had a problem with me being pagan 2 times before, and let me know that she really thinks its very hard for her to coop with the fact that i'm not christian, going to hell, working with devils, etc.

This is the 3rd time she lets me know she thinks that we maybe should not be together. I respect what she thinks. I do not care about her being christian, since I think that you should accept eachother. The total package. Also, I know I don't want it to end, but then again, if this situation leads to nothing more but problems, and stuff that comes back over and over, we might want to consider stopping the relation just to make it better for the both of us. It'll be hard tho :<

Does any of you people had similar experiences, and how did you work it out? Or did not work it out? I don't want to hide anything from her, I don't want us both to just 'ignore it'. We can't. From my point of view, we either need a way out of the problem, or else, i'm afraid we have to stop seeing eachother :(

Really hope you guys have some tips for me :<

[Rowan MoonDragon]

this is a toughy. I havne't had this problem so I hope I can still help. She obviously doesn't know what paganism really is, but has she tried to learn? If she has tried to learn but still doesn't believe it, then I'd say she wont for possibly a really long time and you have to decide if the problems are worth it until she has a more open mind. If she hasn't tried to learn more about it, maybe you could get her a book or two on the basics and ask her to read them to better understand paganism. If she's not willing to read them, then again, you have to decide if the problems are really worth it until she has a more open mind. I know its hard but until she is more accepting of your faith, your in for rough roads and maybe it is better that you two part for the time being.

[goDez]

She knows the utter basics. And she believes that in some way, without me being able to help it, satan is influencing me :/

[LostSheep]

I guess it depends on how willing she is to listen to other people's beleifs and take their feelings into account ... if she loves you, then she'd include your beliefs as part of you, but if she thinks you ought to be converted from your heathen ways even if you don't want to, (and to be fair, she may think like that because she does care for you), then it means that your beleifs are a part of you that she doesn't like ... so maybe you could ask how committed she really is to you . If she really loved you she'd love that part of you as well.

I don't think there has to be a wall between christians and pagans - even though i'm a pagan, i think that at least part of me is still Christian to a degree at least. So if you did think there was some chance that she might be willing to accept you for what you are, that needn't get between you.

I gues it just depends if she is willing to accept that. If she doesn't, then maybe her own personal beliefs are more important to her than you are ....

i hope you manage to work something out somehow.

[LadyOak]

My husband of 18 years is a Christian and I am a Pagan. He accepts me for what/who I am and vice/versa. Is she able to do this?

[Squiddy]

However, she has had a problem with me being pagan 2 times before, and let me know that she really thinks its very hard for her to coop with the fact that i'm not christian, going to hell, working with devils, etc.

I'm assuming that since your girlfriend thinks you're hell bound and in league with devils, that she's not from one of the more liberal Christian denominations. Usually the more liberal Christians have a "live and let live" viewpoint. Unfortunately, the more fundamentalist Christians are, the less likely they are to be sympathetic to paganism. If she is of the fundamentalist mindset, it's going to be very difficult to convince her that pagans aren't in league with satan, going to hell, etc. And she has her entire church to reinforce this idea. I'm sure you love her very much, but this difference of religions could be a huge stumbling block for your relationship, and nothing short of a "conversion" by either you or your girlfriend is going to make this problem go away.

Thats just my 2 cents of course, I could be completely wrong, and I hope that I am. I wish you all the best luck.

[Sage Rainsong]

Well perhaps you can just agree to disagree. Is it possible to just not talk about religion with her? If she is relentless about converting you then you have to decide what is more important, your beliefs or her. But if she is not willing to at least let you have your beliefs then I would classify that as controling whether or not she has good intentions. It sucks that you are even in this situation and I wish you the best.

[debnmike]

When Mike and I started exploring, I was the one who was doing all the researching, looking, asking, reading, etc. The first time I mentioned it, his face turned white---of course, his first reaction was "devil worshipping".

Of course, we both understand much much more than that now....however, had I not explained paganism to him and had he not had an open mind to listen then our story could've turned out very differently.

As Lost Sheep said, it depends on her ability to listen and willingness to accept who you are and your beliefs.

Try and sit her down and give her the basics ("the facts ma'am, just the facts") and see where it goes from there.

Wishing you the best of luck.

[Duwayitheru]

I once dated a Christian man, who knew I was pagan. He said it was okay, and I taught him about what it was I believed in, but at the end of it he still thought I was under Satan's control and worshipping him in secret, or being tricked into it somehow. He tried to convert me a few times.. It was possible he had good intentions, not wanting me to go to hell and all that, but it was not the only area of my life he tried to control.. so.. We did eventually break up.
I guess it does come down to the person. Explain to her what you believe.. will she be able to accept that? Agree to not talk about it? Perhaps she would rather be with someone who shares her faith? Would you convert for her if it was the only way to be with her? Do you feel you should need to convert for anyone? If you two stayed together, could you agree on how to raise any kids you may have? There are a lot of questions to ask yourself, and eachother, things to be worked out in a relationship where the people are two different religions. However, if they are willing, it is very possible to have a wonderful relationship. (My fiance is Jewish, and religion has never become a problem for us.)

[angle kitsune]

Hmm Well sit her down,tell her that this is part of who you are and if she loves you then she should not have a problem with anypart of you. She does not have to do anything pagen at all to be with you. All I can say is to just tell her how you feel about this and what you fear is goin to have to happen and just take it from there. best of luck with her

[xarimae]

Hey goDez:

I've dealt with the same issue. From the day I met my husband he knew I was pagan. He's methodist. He's been really open-minded about my beliefs and we enjoy discussing our faiths and their similarities/differences together. He acknowledges that its only an opinion - not a fact so anyone's beliefs are not to be discredited. His family has been the opposite. Almost every male in his family is a preacher, including his Dad, grandfather, uncles, etc. His mother thinks I'm satan..she's even supporting political causes to stop my freedom of religion...yeah she's a bitch..but her position of ignorance towards me doesn't affect Matt and I's relationship.

Bottom line is - you have to evaluate if you really like/love her. Even though Matt and I are extremely different, we are truely the same. If you two feel a strong connection to each other, she needs to find the good in you instead of the bad. I know its hard on her, I've taken Matt's mom's hatred out on him several times and have questioned our relationship because of her numerous times. But in the end I know I can't live without him - he's my best friend, so we try to keep her negativity out of our relationship. Our 2 year wedding anniversary is next week!

Religion shouldn't be something that tears you apart. It seems to me like she doesn't really know much about your beliefs or of people like yours (pagans in general). Perhaps buy her a book that I've given my mother in law - Its called "Pagans and Christians" by diZerega (ISBN 1-56718-228-3). In it he describes generally our faiths and the similarities between christianity and it. Talk to her and truly tell her how you feel.

Keeping feelings bottled up inside will kill your relationship more than outwardly spoken disagreements.

Hope that helps!

[Qeniheru]

The only experience I have had thus far with this is that my current boyfriend is Catholic and is fortunately very accepting of my beliefs, he even wants to learn more about my faith. I think that if two people really love each other, they will overcome obstacles like this and at least make an effort to understand each other, even if they don't like what the other does. A good example of this is my best friend Samantha. She is getting married in a couple months to a wonderful man who happens to be Baptist. She is wiccan, and though neither of them care for the other's religion (he prefers not to be present when she works with tarot or does rituals, and she doesn't want to go to church with him), they still get along great because they love each other, and will also humor each other on occasion. Example: His family wanted the both of them to go to church with them one Sunday. She went, out of love, and because she wants to get along with future in-laws. :hahugh: He also talks about some things like the sabbats with her sometimes, and will not preach at her for what she does.

Part of loving each other is respecting who they are. If she cannot do that, then she is not the one for you. :hrmm:

[Golliath]

respect her ways and she should respect yours. thats the true pagan way. Live and let live. So I ask you, does she even try to respect your ways?


There lies your answer.




:fpipesmok

[business voodoo]

my instinct is ... your 20 ... move on. and i do not say that lightly ...

but, anyone who tells you "you have to change" is not someone who is trying to be in a *good* relationship with you. and, as nice as she may be, it is more likely she is a "Christian" like most people, and not a 'christian' which is what jesus was ... because if she was a 'christian', you would not be writing us for advice on this. i am a christian because i see the same truth in being a pagan, as in being a buddist, as in being a muslim, as in being a ksduiowkgh. if you are a "pagan" and not a "Pagan" you understand what i am saying ...

now then if her posture was, "i want to help you change the way you want to change" ... that's a different story. for a relationship to be a good one, you need 3 things: love, support and freedom. if you don't have those, move on until you find it, then you will have found a good relationship that you can be yourself and grow to your highest potential.

good luck ... if you do break-up, please remember that "all things work together for good" (a little christian reassurance for you!). and anyone would be lucky to have a person so considerate and thoughtful ... someone will cherish you for you and not require you to change except in the ways you want.

[LCapulet]

I'm not sure I can give you any good words of advice, but I can tell you that this is all too common. I married a reborn Christian because he seemed to accept my being a witch. Unfortunately, he didn't truly accept it, he just ignored it until there was an argrument. Then it was always the last thing to be thrown at me. It was the biggest problem we faced and it was one of the main reasons that I filed for divorce. Even during divorce proceedings, it was thrown in my face countless times to sway the judge's decision.

Think about your future and see if you can see yourself in the years to come. If they are still with her, then try to get her to open her mind. If she can't, let her go. It will be extremely painful, but it will be the best thing for you.


Lisa

[MysticWitch]

why do christian girls get all the pagan guys? :ggrief: I would love for my man to be pagan or wiccan or even just spiritually open minded. Ahhh its not fair :awilly:

[dragoncrone]

Christianity seems hard-wired to reject pagan concepts, particularly those involving wicca. It says right in the bible, 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.' IMO Christians who are tolerant of pagan practices are the rare exception, and unfortunately if they are intolerant right from the beginning I would take that as reason to move on.

I've found that Buddhism coexists peacefully with my Pagan ways. I've been a pagan since the 60s but discovered Buddhism in college in the 70s. The Eight-Fold Path has much in common with the pagan way of life.

[business voodoo]

i believe that ...

its because christianity comes out of the pagan roots and then they did that whole burn them at the stake thing time and time again ... and not only did they literally do it, they systemmically, politically, socially, and ritually did it. AND, they still do it, its the deepest division in christianity ... christianity was created from basically pagan roots on one side, and the judeo roots on the other. *most* christians (especially the 'power structure' e.g., constantine, the council of nicea and the 'christian church') embraced the judeo roots rather than the pagan (likely because the attachment of the judeo roots to the patriarchial structure versus the pagan roots of the matriarchial structure) ... the whole 'good' seed/'bad' seed thing; or first separation thing. it will come back around and it will just take a lot of love, understanding, patience and "living the talk" from people on both sides to bring all three belief systems back to where they truly are just one.

[SSanf]

Absolutely stop seeing her!

For any relationship to be as deep and meaningful as a life time commitment should be, people need to share the basic assumptions. Mutual toleration is nice. But, it means that you will never be close on the very basic, person defining level, that your faith should be.

While many can and do have incomplete relationships, where they make allowances for each other's differences, not having those differences leads to far superior, more soul satisfying, relationships. Why settle when you don't have to?

If you do not see this as a potential long term relationship, why the heck are you not keeping yourself free and available for the right one? Nothing is worse than being with the wrong one when the right one comes along.

As soon as you determine that anyone you date is the wrong one, get loose so you are available for other opportunities. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being alone or having no one at any particular time.

Get out of this situation and go it alone for a while. You may be very pleasantly surprised at the end result.

[goDez]

That's quite some replies :o All very nice advices.

business voodoo: you got a point made in your first post.

Anyway, to go a bit more in-depth: she asked me to explain to her exactly what in magic/wicca is it that attracts me so much that i cannot drop it and 'choose' for her.

First of all: I don't think I need to make a decision. I'm just that what I am, complete with feelings, beliefs and understanding of/for my nature.

Still, I have decided I will make an attempt to explain stuff. For me it's a sign she's at least a bit willing to try and see the point. So far, she's not educated in my beliefs. Whenever I try to explain, I feel like I can't give her the total story, because it's such alot of differences in belief we have.

However, I don't think I will let the situation run for too long. I have been seeing her for 1.5 years now, and it has been my longest relationship so far. I could see us go together as man&wife someday, but the thing is: it would be an 'incomplete' relationship, as SSanf describes. I don't think that's what I want, in the end.

I know stuff will be difficult if we would part, but i've been through the process two times before.

So down to the point: I'll try to explain to her about my beliefs, and if she can't accept it, then I think we should indeed part :(

Oh, one more thing that is not at all unimportant :/
She's been going through alot of stress lately, being depressed, seeing the psychiatrist (uhh is that spelled correct?) and for some time, taking anti-depressing medicines. How can I get her not to hurt herself if we indeed break up? (harsh as it sounds, this is a serious question, i do love her for who she is, and i could not get it over my heart that she killed herself over the situation :/).. Why is this situation so awkward :(

[Sage Rainsong]

How can I get her not to hurt herself if we indeed break up? (harsh as it sounds, this is a serious question, i do love her for who she is, and i could not get it over my heart that she killed herself over the situation :/).. Why is this situation so awkward

Can you maybe talk to her therapist before you do that? Maybe s/he can give you some advice before you break up with her (if she forces you to choose). If not can you contact a psychologist? It sucks that you have to consider it though.

[goDez]

Can yu maybe talk to her therapist before you do that? Maybe s/he can give you some advice before you break up with her (if she forces you to choose). If not can you contact a psychologist? It sucks that you have to consider it though.
She just left her current psychologist because she (the psych) wasn't able to see my gf once a week (which my gf thought she needed). She's going to find a new one, but in the meantime, all this stuff is happening :/ Also, I have no contact with this psych at all. Or any, for that matter.

[Sage Rainsong]

Hmm well then..... Is there some kind of suicide hotline that you can call for advice? If not maybe you can tell her parents or some other relatives that you are going to do it before hand. Come to think of it, you should probably do that anyway.

[goDez]

Well, the point is, it's not to the point where I'm going to break up yet. We had a phonecall this night and I will see her tomorrow. The conversation on the phone was positive, and I know we do love eachother. That just might make it more hard for us at the other hand :(

Basicly, about her being suicidal.. She's not like that the whole time. Since she got the medicine, I noticed her getting alot more positive. It's just that I know she has these really depressed moments (all of a sudden) and during those times she feels like there's no use to life, and everything is negative. She can't help that either. That's why she was seeing the psychiatrist in the first place. Last time that she got depressed, she told me she worried about me so much for the whole pagan thing, going to hell, and when I did magic, it couldnt be anything else but the devil, however much _I_ thought it was my power/energy that I was working with.

Ah well, misinformation can be a real b*tch :/

[Sage Rainsong]

Well, the point is, it's not to the point where I'm going to break up yet. We had a phonecall this night and I will see her tomorrow. The conversation on the phone was positive, and I know we do love eachother. That just might make it more hard for us at the other hand

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that th relationship was doomed or anything. I should have said if you broke up.



Basicly, about her being suicidal.. She's not like that the whole time. Since she got the medicine, I noticed her getting alot more positive. It's just that I know she has these really depressed moments (all of a sudden) and during those times she feels like there's no use to life, and everything is negative. She can't help that either. That's why she was seeing the psychiatrist in the first place. Last time that she got depressed, she told me she worried about me so much for the whole pagan thing, going to hell, and when I did magic, it couldnt be anything else but the devil, however much _I_ thought it was my power/energy that I was working with.

Ah well :/

Well if it isn't that bad then there is probably no need to worry but if it happens. I know that she may be genuinely concerned, but that is still no reason to stay with someone; loving each other despite differences is. Does she still think its the devil when she is not depressed?

[SSanf]

I never suggest that anyone be unkind. But, sometimes you just have to harden your heart a bit.

First of all you must understand that her emotions are her responsibility and not yours. Nor, are you responsibility for any actions she takes due to her emotions. She is. You are responsible for your own emotions and that is enough of a burden for any one person.

Secondly, show her some respect. Do you think she really wants to be your charity girlfriend? That isn't respectful.

Sure, she may kick up a fuss. But, don't let anyone emotionally blackmail you into staying in any relationship that you don't want to be in. That is, unless you are married. In that case, you should be emotionally blackmailed lest you become an oath breaker which is dishonorable.

She has a psychiatrist for a reason. Let them earn their money. You don't need to be taking bread off their table by doing their job for them, do you?

(This may not make sense because we seem to have cross posted)

[Invidosa]

Wow, I'm so sorry this is going on. Don't take this the wrong way, but how did you two end up together in the first place? Did she know you were pagan when you first started dating? If so, what about her has changed? Because it could not have bothered her that much if she still chose to be with you. I mean, I just don't think I could be in a relationship with someone who really honestly and truely believed that I was doomed and cavorting with demons so I don't date fundamentalists. My last bf was a born and raised methodist, and very open to my faith, we even discussed having children and letting them choose their own faith to follow. It just seems so strange to me that she wants you to choose between your faith and her, because to me it's a matter of respect. I mean how would she react if you wanted to force her to give up her religion? I respected my ex, and his religion. I never got down on him just because I don't agree, and he respected me in the same manner. I just don't see how love can grow otherwise. In any case I hope this gets easier for you and you can work it out.:rubhead:

[goDez]

First of all you must understand that her emotions are her responsibility and not yours. Nor, are you responsibility for any actions she takes due to her emotions. She is. You are responsible for your own emotions and that is enough of a burden for any one person.
You've got a point.



Sure, she may kick up a fuss. But, don't let anyone emotionally blackmail you into staying in any relationship that you don't want to be in.
And another one :)

The stupid thing about it all is that our relationship is near perfect.. There aren't ANY hassles at all, we go along great, no fights, never.. However, she did came up with this subject three times now. Because of our relationship being so good, I thought we should be able to work stuff like 'beliefs' out in some kind of agreement. Ah well, let's see what informing her a bit does for us.



Does she still think its the devil when she is not depressed?
Well, I think she does, but she won't get all emotional over it. She'll just say that she's concerned about me (and as stated, I think she genuinely is concerned).


How did you two end up together in the first place? Did she know you were pagan when you first started dating? If so, what about her has changed? Because it could not have bothered her that much if she still chose to be with you.
A friend of mine knew her, and was dating a friend of yentl. Through him and his gf we met, and were very fast to consider ourselfs dating. She knew it from the first time. The thing is, she has a friend that is also Wiccan that might have influenced her on thinking 'ah well, it can't be that bad, my other friend is still alive' and then started our relationship. However I never asked her.