Mercury in vaccines not cause of autism, study finds

[Amethyst Rose]

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=7b437617-e4b1-4c78-a39e-5a4f49e47d52


MONTREAL - A new Quebec study casts doubt on the popular theory that mercury poisoning from childhood vaccinations can cause autism.

The theory has prevailed despite several previous studies around the world that have failed to find any connection between autism and common childhood vaccines containing mercury.

But the unique Quebec study, which is to be published next month in Pediatrics, the official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, could have a big impact on the debate.

Quebec changed its vaccine formula 10 years ago, Eric Fombonne, chief of pediatric psychiatry at the McGill University Health Centre, told the 10th International Child Neurology Congress being held in Montreal.

Since 1996, Quebec children have received vaccines without the mercury-based preservative thimerosol, Fombonne said.

He compared autism rates among kids before the vaccine changed and after.

"My study is very clear in showing that there's no relationship between the level of exposure to thimerosol in vaccine and autism," Fombonne said in an interview.

"In fact, in my study the incidence of (autism) is higher in the years when there was no mercury."

[WillowsMuse]

That may be true. But I still think intentionally injecting [even small amounts of] poisonous metals in to a body is a bad idea. And in fact there are plenty of other horrible things mercury exposure does even if it doesn't "cause" autism. I know, I know, you didn't ask. :hahugh:

[Cat]

I've been convinced by the dearth of evidence that in fact mercury is not involved at all.

I do wonder if the upsurge in autism is linked to environmental pollution. The more crap we breathe and eat and drink, the more a fetus gets exposed to, ya know? But its just a theory.

[djmixon]

I agree that injecting something that we know is bad for you is probably a bad idea...

Then again, I believe the theory came to life because of the overly litigious society in which we live. After Love Canal and all the deep pockets there, people are quick to jump and point the blame. The television advertising of shyster personal injury lawyers are partly to blame... that and the entitlement mentality that too many people have.

[Rowanbirch]

Now, just wait a minute here on this whole "government agency did a study, they say it's true, so therefore I believe what I always wanted to believe, that drug companies in cahoots with the government would NEVER, EVER, EVER do anything that would harm people and would never EVER, EVER in a jillion years even think of putting something bad and then INJECT it into little innocent babies!" (Insert eye roll, here, if I wasn't about to unleash a robin rant, I would interrupt my train of thought and find the appropropriate emote as well as spell check appropropriate!) A HUGE DOSAGE what Helen Thomas calls skepticism is in total order here, and I am the one to deliver it.


First off, mercury is bad. Second off, its a natural consequence of living in our society and is found everywhere, not just in vaccines. It's found in rivers, lakes, oceans, and air. We have been an industrialized western society since what...the early 1900s,with what-environmental controls in place since-oooh, let's see, 1970ish, 20 years after Rachel Carson and Silent Spring? And, I promise I won't even rant about how "effective" those controls have been...(saving that for a full on political rant one day) Let’s do the math then, about 70 years to pollute the air with coal/oil etc.to fuel an industrial/military/drug complex (Thank you Dwight Eisenhower) and then another 30ish years to "play" at how terrible bad pollution is, think about the kids please, and the government then "appeases" us with carefully drawn conclusions from studies and/or policies they designed to protect vested interests-moneyed corporations. Pardon me if I am a wee bit cynical about the government and its conclusions based on history.

Now, let's look at mercury and what makes this element so bad.... especially for children. Neurological symptoms include tremors, headaches, short-term memory loss, incoordination, weakness, loss of appetite, altered sense of taste and smell, numbness and tingling in the hands and feet, insomnia, and excessive sweating. Psychiatric effects are also seen after long-term exposure. Yeppers, mercury, fun and games for everyone!


Now, let's just suppose, for one instance that SCIENTISTS from Top SCHOOLS earning hundred of thousands of dollars from drug companies were told to find a way to preserve a live vaccine so drug companies could produce cheaper-I use that word loosely anyone who thinks that drug companies would want to produce "cheap" drugs should see me, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I could sell you. -Vaccines that will save the world. Hey, mercury, its cheap, its available, and a little bit won't kill anyone, and I still can take the European vacation with my family. And you know what folks, that scientist might have been right before....da-da-dum.... SUPER vaccines were introduced-yep, what are we up too now-20 or so vaccines, required by our government before they will "educate"(another rant one day) your child. Hmm, cheaply produced vaccines made with mercury, saving the drug companies money, vaccinated children who are programmed to work in an industrialized society without getting sick and a government who can then spend its money on something more important than the health of their people, like tanks and going to the moon, because hey, that floating piece of rock with no redeemable qualities-(water, oil air) was just so damn important. Oh, let's not forget the junket to Scotland to check out the strategic importance of St. Andrew's golf course!

But, but let's just say that the government and the drug companies DID have your health in mind, and they were right, a little mercury never killed anyone, and your nervous system just eventually excreted the small amount of mercury found in thermisol out, or should have and the greater good, millions of children who didn't get sick and die, versus thousands who just had this little nervous system thing going on with their developing brains....yep, the risk-thousands with bio-neurological deficits-versus millions who are saved...plus cheap vaccines...well its ALMOST a win-win for everyone right?

Okay, so let's go with a little mercury won't kill you.. but we have to go back with my original hypothesis, a lot will do incredible nerve damage, if not outright kill ya. A lot of mercury found in rivers, in lakes, run off that ended up in our food supply(fish, fields) and moms being "pre-pregnant"(so many rants so little time, sigh) eating that food, drinking that water, eating that tuna to stay "slim"....getting pregnant, still breathing the air, eating that food, now with a fetus who has to develop a nervous system, having to deal with her parents genes and dna, and other eserotic things-(OH my gods, you mean you didn't put your headphones with MOZART on your pregnant belly????? don't blame me if your child is asking "do you want skim or whole milk? in 35 years! another eye roll here). Now once the child is born, she is automatically pricked with-hmmm vaccines filled with mercury and other cool things like aborted fetus cells-funny, never hear the anti-choice people talking about that little fun fact. And the Vaccines will continue to flood her developing immune and neurological system for years afterwards. Stay with me here, if you read The Tipping Point, you will see where I am going...what if, this "little bit of mercury" which preserves the cheap drugs, which benefit so many-is the tipping point for autism in several children who already had the deck stacked against them genetically?

S
Right now, its all hypothetical stuff we are talking about. However, let's point out some interesting things. Number 1, in any study, follow the money. The CANADIAN government funded this study, right there makes me skeptical. Plus, the Pediatrics society also had a big hand in these studies. Well, now, I am not against people making money, all for it, but come on...vaccines equal office visits equal money for....drug companies and...um doctors? Hmm, interesting.

Next, the CDC and the Consumer Reports have both asked women to stop eating mercury laden tuna while pregnant. Something about nerve damage to the fetus-while it is crucially developing its nervous system. Never mind the fact that Dept of Agriculture is handing out free tuna to pregnant poor women, (guess their babies deserve what they get, being born to poor folk and all, and yes, that is a facetious sarcastic remark).

Also, a little known fact, about four years ago a transportation bill was passed. Now, I know, you all are saying, get a load of this loon, first, she is ranting about the gods know what, and now she is talking transportation bills? Will this post EVER end? So, let me tell you about this "transportation bill." In this transportation bill, "Dr." or Senator Bill Frist slipped in a little amendment. Just a little one mind you, that said-"in the unlikely event that vaccines produced before the year, I think 1987, by the Eli Lilly pharmaceutical company are shown to have been shown to be harmful, Eli Lilly CANNOT be sued for damages inflicted by their vaccines. Now, you could be asking yourself, and I bloody well would-why Senator Frist would need to slip that in a transportation bill? I will tell you why, little known fact that about the time of this bill, a major scientist at the CDC was writing papers that showed that there was a connection between therimosal and autism. And, I listened and read this scientist's interview with NPR. This scientist DID NOT want to publish this paper, and DID NOT want to draw the conclusion that more testing/research would be needed due to the overwhelming evidence of his research of a thermisol vaccine/autism conclusion.

Finally, in 2005, a scientist proved that mercury found in rivers, lake and air of Texas industrial town was the major cause of the rise of autism in the town's autism rates. Like I said, thermisol may not have been the cause, but it might have been the tipping point in this town.


All of this is circumsticial evidence of course. Bottom line do I think that vaccines are bad? It depends. I think we give too many, too often and too early. Do I think thermisol causes autism? I think that the evidence is intriguing and I think that there are many causes of autism, and its very simplistic view that "One thing" caused autism, which probably has a lot more of a genetic cause than we would like to think.


However, I am not willing to say, "oh goody, a governmental study funded by a Peditriatic society shows that thermisol didn't effect the neurological system of children, let's put it back in our vaccines to preserve them".

Look, folks, life is about risk/benefit. You weigh the risks, versus the benefits. As a therimosol vaccinated child of the 70s, I got to live a relatively healthy childhood, and was guaranteed to make it to adult not having to worry about a lot of diseases. Pretty beneficial I think and well worth the risk that I was in the millions not affected my mercury instead of the thousands. And, as it is said in the Princess Bride, life isn't fair, anyone who says so is probably trying to sell you something. Life isn't fair, we do the best we can with what we get/have and with what we know at the time. We now know mercury is bad, its out of our vaccine supply, and justice(suing the drug companies) is one thing, but let me tell you something, revenge gets in the way of a lot of more important things. If you as a parent spend your life trying to "get even" with evil drug companies, how much of your time is spent getting your child to be able to survive and MORE importantly THRIVE in our world?

Thanks for reading, I am sure there will be a lot disagreement here.

[Amethyst Rose]

Now, just wait a minute here on this whole "government agency did a study, they say it's true, so therefore I believe what I always wanted to believe, that drug companies in cahoots with the government would NEVER, EVER, EVER do anything that would harm people and would never EVER, EVER in a jillion years even think of putting something bad and then INJECT it into little innocent babies!"

No, I don't think that there is some big government/doctor/drug company conspiracy to make money at the expense of the health of tax paying citizens. What I believe aside, however, no one ever said anything close to what you're saying here.


First off, mercury is bad. etc. etc.

Yes, we know that mercury is poisonous, but we didn't always know that - it used to be used as medicine 200 years ago, infact, in the Caribbean you can still find bottles of 'quick silver' on the pharmacy shelves. We also know that asbestos is poisonous, but we didn't always know that. ASAIK, once we realized just how bad the stuff was, there has been some effort to reduce it's presence in the environment and (again afaik) no one is out there lying to us and telling us that mercury is okay, in order to make a buck.


Now, let's just suppose, for one instance that SCIENTISTS from Top SCHOOLS earning hundred of thousands of dollars from drug companies were told to find a way to preserve a live vaccine so drug companies could produce cheaper Vaccines that will save the world.

Who else would you expect to make vaccines?? Janitors from community colleges??? These scientists from top schools make the hundreds of thousands of dollars because they're doing their damndest to eliminate painful death and disease from the population. They deserve every penny, imo.


what are we up too now-20 or so vaccines, required by our government before they will educate your child.

I look at it very differently. For one, I see vaccines that will save my child from horrible disease and perhaps painful death. I also see a government that makes the responsible decision to PROTECT unvaccinated children from those other unvaccinated children who have contracted said horrible disease. If you're not gonna vaccinate your kids then keep the little plague rats away from other kids and out of public schools.


vaccinated children who are programmed to work in an industrialized society without getting sick and a government who can then spend its money on something more important than the health of their people,

Let me get this straight.... are you saying that it's better for people to suffer horrible diseases and have their governments look after them, than for the people to not get sick at all??? I think your priorities may be a little messed up, if that's the case...


yep, the risk-thousands with bio-neurological deficits-versus millions who are saved...plus cheap vaccines...well its ALMOST a win-win for everyone right?

Well....here's the thing.... even tylenol has side effects. With vaccines, however, it has been proven, by something like 5 studies since 1998 that thermisol does not cause austism, so your point above, is moot.


Now once the child is born, she is automatically pricked with-hmmm vaccines filled with mercury and other cool things like aborted fetus cells . . . And the Vaccines will continue to flood her developing immune and neurological system for years afterwards. . . .what if, this "little bit of mercury" which preserves the cheap drugs, which benefit so many-is the tipping point for autism in several children who already had the deck stacked against them genetically?

First I've gotta say (and this has no relevance with the mercury thing, whatsoever) - aborted fetus cells? Who cares? The fetus isn't using them anymore, right? Stem cells (which is what you're refering too, I believe) are EXTREMELY valuble to the fight against disease and genetic disorders - as long as the doctors aren't tearing babies out of their mother's unwilling wombs to get them, I dont' care where they get them from. Incidently, I donated the stem cells from my son's umbilical cord to help further such research. As to the second part of your quote, that argument is moot, as I already said.


Number 1, in any study, follow the money. The CANADIAN government funded this study, right there makes me skeptical.


Maybe you've done more research on this new study than I have - very possible since all I did was post the article. Nowhere in that article, however, has it said that the Canadian government funded that study. Infact, I'm inclined to think that they actually didn't fund, it, because it was a Quebec study and the Canadian government does it's best to stay out of Quebec's business, unless they ask for help.


Next, the CDC and the Consumer Reports have both asked women to stop eating mercury laden tuna while pregnant. Something about nerve damage to the fetus-while it is crucially developing its nervous system. Never mind the fact that Dept of Agriculture is handing out free tuna to pregnant poor women, (guess their babies deserve what they get, being born to poor folk and all, and yes, that is a facetious sarcastic remark).

"mercury laden tuna" is the key phrase in this paragraph. Health officials have advised pregnant women not to eat large game fish and *white* tuna, because they can be high in mercury. *Light* tuna (a different breed), however, is still okay for consumption.


a major scientist at the CDC was writing papers that showed that there was a connection between therimosal and autism.

Don't know if this is the same research or not, but a major study connecting thermisol with autism was debunked in 1998 by 2 out of 3 of the scientists who actually *created* the study.


I think that the evidence is intriguing and I think that there are many causes of autism, and its very simplistic view that "One thing" caused autism, which probably has a lot more of a genetic cause than we would like to think.

I completely agree.


However, I am not willing to say, "oh goody, a governmental study funded by a Peditriatic society shows that thermisol didn't effect the neurological system of children, let's put it back in our vaccines to preserve them".

I don't think that's anyones intent. I do think that it is very telling, however, that more autism cases were seen after thermisol was taken out of vaccines. What it means to me is that there is no link at all between the two, as more and more kids keep developing it, even after a suspected trigger is eliminated.

[Rowanbirch]

Its my job to keep on track of these things due to me being a bheavioral autism specialist.

You misread my post entirely hon, or you misinterepeted the tone it was written it, cynical realist that I am.

Noticed though you did gloss over the whole CDC knowing about mercury in vaccines and having closed door sessions and whole Bil Frist thing in your comments. Oh, the whole aborted fetus thing I don't give a flying fat frack about used biohazards, as long as they are deposed properly and don't end up on my beach, I was making a point, which again you missed, dearie, about how all kinds of digusting things go into those vaccines that are supposedly "protecting" us. Which btw, they aren't whooping cough is now becoming vaccine resistant, or did you not know that?


I also don't feel unvaccinated children are any less healthier than vacinated children. In fact, studies and personal experience shows that unvaccinated children actually have less infections, especially the chronic ear infection, and don't get dreaded diseases....even when you take in to account all other mitigating factors(vaccinated children helping out, probably better nutrition, homeschooled, etc). So, I ain't buying that little argument of yours, try again.


Also, its not the government's job to mitigate all risk for everyone. What the hell is wrong with parents these days? This obscene desire to "shield" children from every fracking bad thing is ridiculous....and extreme. How are kids going to survive and not only that thrive? I was talking to a research scientist I have Sunday coffee with and he said to me, "you know we shield everyone from germs, we are actually supressing the immune system. God help our immune system because one day it just my evolve into not working." Interesting convo, but one that a person would have to have an open mind to have, instead of being brainwashed by the government/drug companies.

You make your own choices in life as a parent, and if you want to swallow hook, line and sinker governement and vested interests are pouring in your glass, go for it. As for me, my children will remain unvaccinated until their immune system has more time to develop, and I take full responsiblity for any outcome that may bring.

Have fun discussing this with others, I am done on this one.

oh, one more note, The Consumer Reports recommended ALL women who are pregnant stop eating ALL TUNA, even "light" tuna due to the extremely high mercury content. Did you miss that story this week hon?


But then, Consumer Reports is not a governmental agency and isn't an overpaid research scientist at Starkist so you know who can trust them?

[Semele]

what are we up too now-20 or so vaccines, required by our government before they will "educate"(another rant one day) your child.

No, they are required so that your child who may not be vaccinated doesn't give or get communicable diseases that we can and have prevented in the last thirty or so years. How many polio epidemics have you been privy to? Ever seen an infant with Diptheria?

Yes they are expensive but so are the cars we buy and the toys we give our children. Those are not always so "good" for us either.

As for the autism issue perhaps there are more cases now because they are still classifying the spectrum.

[Marcasite]

Numerous studies have proven that autism and thimersol vaccines aren't linked. I don't get why we're still debating this...

[Amethyst Rose]

You misread my post entirely hon, or you misinterepeted the tone it was written it, cynical realist that I am.

Sorry if that was the case...but what was it that I misinterpreted, exactly?


Noticed though you did gloss over the whole CDC knowing about mercury in vaccines and having closed door sessions and whole Bil Frist thing in your comments.

Yeah, I did, sorry.... simply because I prefer not to comment on things that I know absolutely nothing about, nor have any opinions on.


Oh, the whole aborted fetus thing I don't give a flying fat frack about used biohazards,

Well, at least we can agree that we both don't care about that aspect. :)

I was making a point, which again you missed, dearie, about how all kinds of digusting things go into those vaccines that are supposedly "protecting" us.

Okay, point made, point taken. I haven't gotten polio yet though, so I'm not complaining.


Which btw, they aren't whooping cough is now becoming vaccine resistant, or did you not know that?

Nope, didn't know that.


I also don't feel unvaccinated children are any less healthier than vacinated children. In fact, studies and personal experience shows that unvaccinated children actually have less infections, especially the chronic ear infection, and don't get dreaded diseases....even when you take in to account all other mitigating factors(vaccinated children helping out, probably better nutrition, homeschooled, etc). So, I ain't buying that little argument of yours, try again.

Which argument? That sick people spread disease? Or that unvaccinated people can get sick? Seems to me that both of those arguments are supported by science...but it also seems like you don't trust scientists...so I guess that's not a good argument either. :)


Also, its not the government's job to mitigate all risk for everyone. What the hell is wrong with parents these days? This obscene desire to "shield" children from every fracking bad thing is ridiculous....and extreme. How are kids going to survive and not only that thrive? I was talking to a research scientist I have Sunday coffee with and he said to me, "you know we shield everyone from germs, we are actually supressing the immune system. God help our immune system because one day it just my evolve into not working."

I do, infact, think that it is government's job to ensure that the citizens of the country (and even the rest of the world that the country may effect) are protected. I am a Socialist, however, so maybe that's where our opinions are differing.

I do, totally agree, however, that our society is overly sterile. We have antibacteria everything...there's people sending their kids to school with antibacterial handwash.... It is creating an army of 'super bacteria' that is leading to more resistant germs. That's why I don't buy anything with the word 'antibacterial' on it. When it comes to viruses, though, I think prevention is the best solution to it....I'd rather prevent it than have thousands of kids die in an effort to strengthen their immune systems.


You make your own choices in life as a parent, and if you want to swallow hook, line and sinker governement and vested interests are pouring in your glass, go for it. As for me, my children will remain unvaccinated until their immune system has more time to develop, and I take full responsiblity for any outcome that may bring.

Yes, we do make our own choices in life as a parent - both you and I. As long as we're both happy and satisfied with the choices we've made, then that's what's really important, isn't it?


Have fun discussing this with others, I am done on this one.

oh, one more note, The Consumer Reports recommended ALL women who are pregnant stop eating ALL TUNA, even "light" tuna due to the extremely high mercury content. Did you miss that story this week hon?


But then, Consumer Reports is not a governmental agency and isn't an overpaid research scientist at Starkist so you know who can trust them?

Hmmm why can't I help feeling that this is a jab at me? *shrugs* Oh well. Actually, I just read an article in McLeans magazine not too long ago about the confusion in regards to mercury and tuna. I was basing my statement on that article and the conversation I had with my ob gyn a few weeks ago. But yes, those were both weeks ago....I could be out of touch.

BTW, I dont' know what you've got against research scientists being paid what they do, but I think it's unfounded.

Nice chatting with you. :D

Numerous studies have proven that autism and thimersol vaccines aren't linked. I don't get why we're still debating this...

That's just what the government, doctors, drug companies and over paid scientists *want* you to think....so they can keep making money. ;)

Seriously, though...

[Cat]

I'm pretty easy to convince if you give me data. The data show vaccinations aren't causally connected to autism. I'm satisfied. If someone else isn't, fine. I'm not forcing anyone else to vaccinate their kids and neither is the government.

Along the same lines, if new studies come out showing that there is a causal relationship, I'll reconsider my position.