Modern Civilization Is Awesome.

[Infinite Grey]

Guess what? I'm jumping off the band wagon and supporting modern civilization!

There is no other time in history where freedom of speech, religion, culture has been so accepted. Before we all start spouting examples of oppression, let's compare our situation to 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago. How many witches have been burnt at the stake? Or heretics? How much do you know about other cultures? Other Societies? My guess is a lot more than you would have even 30 years ago.

Sure there is faults with modern Civilization, it isn't a utopia! But you all have the opportunity to increase your wealth, life style, knowledge, understanding, love. In a fashion unknown in any other point in history.

Oh what about globalization? What about corporate entities? What about fascism? guess what! It's all the same shit, different toilet seat! The difference is, you don't have to pick up a weapon to change it anymore. Women can vote, ethnic minorities can vote, you can vote. OR you can sit and watch TV. That's the beauty of modern civilization, it's YOUR CHOICE!

But then again, what is modern civilization? Which culture, society, civilization set the standards for what is considered Civilization?


civ·i·li·za·tion (sĭv'ə-lĭ-zā'shən)
n.
An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.
The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.
Cultural or intellectual refinement; good taste.
Modern society with its conveniences: returned to civilization after camping in the mountains.


It seems that the common denominator of all 5 possible meanings is Cultural and Intellectual influence. So modern civilization is so much the American way, or the Australian way, or the British way, or the German way, or the Chinese way. It is a collection of cultural acceptance and intellectual involvement. The ability to discuss this topic without pulling out a sword or club as an argument is in it's self part of civilization!

So give it up for Modern Civilization, whoot whoot!

[Philosophia]

:lol:

[Infinite Grey]

:lol:

Thank you fans!

[Cain]

I can sum up modern civilization in three words: hot, drinkable water. Given I spent a fair bit of time in some fairly "uncivilized" areas (try and find the Colca Canyon or the Pongo de Manique on a map...), I can safely say these are the saving grace of the modern world.

[Sage Rainsong]

Horray for Modern Civilization!!!

[Infinite Grey]

Welcome to the revolution!

[AussiePagan]

Don't forget air-conditioning and refrigeration. Nothing like AC and cold beer in summer :cheers:. ...and contraception, computers, the internet, movies, Rock & Roll, mobile phones, cars, planes...

Go Team Civilized :boing:

[LacyRoze]

Fast food that stays open till 1am!!! What would we do without it!!!:fpraise:

[Zephyrstorm]

When else could you have talked to people who live across the world without having to travel for years through dangerous territory with bandits, "barbarians" and disease ever-threatening.

We don't have to worry about our doctors bleeding us, or counceling us not to bathe. Plumbing that's reliable. Very few Theocracies in existence.

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

I think, as Cohen the Barbarian once said, the greatest thing today's society has to offer is toilet paper.
Well, that and books and electricity and the wonders of the computer, and our generally equal rights and freedoms to do as we will within sensible limts.
And Coca-Cola is friggin' AWESOME. That's right, I went there.

[jcldragon]

Because of the internet, we now have easy access to all of the accumulated knowledge of the world. We can study anything that interests us, and we can communicate with people hundreds & thousands of miles away. That's even more true now, than it was in the last century, when all we had was dial-up...

[Trithemius]

I have to agree. Sure, modern civilization has its quirks and downsides, but I'll take it over ancient times any day.

[Bethra]

gas central heat :D hot running water :D washing machines :D electric :D computers (I love my computer), the internet which lets me talk to people all round the world for pitence. Yes advancment is a wonderful thing.

Then there is the fact that we have education, medication, book :D thank the gods for books :D equal rights, sochial welfare, honestly I can't express how many wonders of the modern world there are in all I just know its great :D

[Little Billy]

Painless dentistry.

Nuff said.

[Merilwen]

The ability to get a higher education, work wherever I want, mass production of books, and being able to say Bush is an idiot without fear of death!

:cheers:

[MysticWitch]

Pet peeves of our time...

Parking meters.
Hatred


What I love...

Nice people
Gossip (not about me 8O )
Modern advancements

[Cathubodva]

Peacock...yappin about those pesky achievements of mankind...why..you forget that all boils down to...Toilet Paper!

[semi]

Peacock...yappin about those pesky achievements of mankind...why..you forget that all boils down to...Toilet Paper!


TP has always existed, but it used to be called "leaves." Sometimes, on poorly planned camping trips, people rediscover this.

I am very non-technological, but not anti-technological. I look forward to the day when I can pop my eyes out and insert the cybernetic implants. Til then, I'm one blind mofo.

Technology, like religion or anything else, has it's pros and cons. To say it's good or bad for humanity is useless. How you use it makes it good or bad. Many aspects of civilization are not too good for humans, in my opinion, but many are good. Debating whether civilization is beneficial or not is the same as debating anything else. Futile. And a waste of time, especially online. We're here in this technological age. Deal with it.

And I'm a very primally oriented person, not feeling good about too much tech. But ,like LB said, painless dentistry. I had all four wisdom teeth pulled, with breaking of teeth and cutting through gums, and didn't need a single painkiller afterwards. Without current tech, I would have died in pain, most likely.

Technology and civilization, like anything else, is what you make it to be. I prefer to make it something that gives me ice cold beer whenever I want it.

[cheddarsox]

Yup, I'm happy I was born when I was. I enjoy the comforts of technology, and the ability is has given me to know and enjoy the comforts of nature as well...I would never have seen Niagra Falls, the Grand Canyon, etc if I had to rely on my own two feet.


cheddar, who appreciates a good things when it comes my way

[southern_fried_wicca]

Well I think it all comes down to this...You cannot be born in any other time so make do with whatcha got. I am not always for many modern things and refuse a good many of them for more primative methods that I consider better. But regardlessly it 2006 and I have to deal with others that do not share my ideas on various things (religion comes to mind.) but there is room for lots of different ideas i this great big universe.

[WokeUpDead]

I'm not a big fan of nature and all this new stuff keeps it away from me so yay.

[Zibblsnrt]

I was born a couple months premature back in 1981. If I'd been born a couple months premature back in 1921, or 1951, or 1971, the odds of my survival would have been effectively zero, nevermind that if I'd been born in 981, or 81. (As it was, I was just barely viable at the time anyway.)

Also liking the fact that, for the most part, we're actually aware of how things in general work, and how we affect the world around us. Those hunter-gatherer societies folks like to idealize? Nnnnnot so terribly environmentally conscious, save as retroprojection from the sixties.

The whole "access to the sum total of human knowledge, and greatest extent of freedom in history" bits are nice, too.

[_Banbha_]

:lol: Another fan of this thread.

A wise person once said the past is a foreign country and they were right. But People were still the same at the basic levels, I mean we haven't evolved that much.

So I would miss greatly the Bill of Rights and my freedoms, the freedom of religion or not having a religion, the continuing equality for a genders and races, medical care, ease of travel anyplace in the world and of course the internet and all the advances in science, esp. about our universe. :D

I think it's wise to take full advantage of the age your living in and nothing beats a flush tiolet and indoor plumbing. Esp. if you've gone for any period without, you understand me. :hehehehe:

[WokeUpDead]

I think it's wise to take full advantage of the age your living in and nothing beats a flush tiolet and indoor plumbing.
What if you're genetically engineered so you have no need for them?

[Infinite Grey]

What if you're genetically engineered so you have no need for them?

I do not think that is possible.... I mean, waste has to go somewhere :lol:

[_Banbha_]

What if you're genetically engineered so you have no need for them?Well if I could be genetically engineered to live 175 years like Darwin's Tortoise but still poop or live a normal life span and not poop. I take the poop. I'm used to it and don't think my own stinks at all. :lol:

[kiwimac]

Hey I was born two moths prem in 1960. They weren't the dark ages ya know!

[Jolixte]

I'd be very dead right now without modern medicine, so yay for modern civilization.

[Incendia]

TP! TP! Hooray for TP! :fpompoms Who misses those scratchy leaves anyway?

[Thunder]

I'd be very dead right now without modern medicine, so yay for modern civilization.

That would have been a crime... big ass vote here for medical research.

[Grimr]

I suppose my views are unwanted.

[Infinite Grey]

I suppose my views are unwanted.

Why wouldn't they be wanted? It's just a change of emphasis, the burden of proof lies with anyone who disagrees with my original post.

[Grimr]

Why wouldn't they be wanted? It's just a change of emphasis, the burden of proof lies with anyone who disagrees with my original post.

Burden of proof?

[Infinite Grey]

Burden of proof?

It means I get to ask you to validate your claims before I have to validate mine... debating ethics :lol:

[Grimr]

It means I get to ask you to validate your claims before I have to validate mine... debating ethics :lol:

Fair enough.

I will look more into this thread tommorrow.

My insomiac night is about to end with me sleeping.

[Infinite Grey]

Fair enough.

I will look more into this thread tommorrow.

My insomiac night is about to end with me sleeping.

I'm holding my breath... really

[jcldragon]

I'm holding my breath... reallyDon't hold your breath. Do slow diaphamatic breathing instead, preferably while in a Yoga posture. ;)

[Thunder]

I'm holding my breath... really

Or... hold your breath. I think your avatar would look good in blue.

[Grimr]

Sure the technology is great in many regards.

Not to mention that women have better understanding with rights in civilization and spirituality plus religion is no longer forced on people.

These things are great.

I am willing to blow a party horn for that. ;)





I will however play the advocate and say my complete disgust of the age we live.

Family traditions and unity are at a all time low.

Divorces are at a all time high.

Secularism is on the rise. Not that I want religion and state to be mixed , but It seems spirituality and religion is heavily lacking in our societies.

Children are growing up everyday with no family leadership.

Traditional view points of family are being destroyed.

Ethics,morality,honor,courage,integrity,virtue are at a all time low in society.

Our values are in the wrong place. We value greed and desire more than anything these days.

We truely live in the " Me." culture today.

Nihilism or complete disregard for anything is on the rise.


I am constantly bombarded by capitalism and propaganda that seeks to control me into a consumer into modern consumerism.

Somthing like a cow that grazes that pays taxes is what consumerism is to me.


I am constantly surrounded by individuals at home who can't think for themselves who believe every yuppy piece of propaganda and other absurd things.

Political propaganda is at a all time high with the modern media system.

The government lies alot more these days and they pull it off alot better too.

Infact I would say the government has got really good at lying compared to years past.

We are all moving into Globalism where the assimilation of every culture is inevitable the way I see it. Every distinction and difference that makes us great will cease to be.

I hate Globalism and I hope we come to our senses before it is too late. I support any anti-Globalism establishment that are peaceful.

Indigenous people are disregarded completely and instead there are more incentives to immigrants of other nations then to indigenous people themselves.

Western Civilization in our greed can not even substain our own economies because of the demand of workers and products. With that indigenous people who made Western Civilization demand immigrants of all nations with incentives to come to our nations and displace us culturally,socially,politically and economically.

There is a severe decrease in cultural unity especially with European people. The government for some odd reason dislikes any unity in some sense.

You are not a true global citizen if you are not stirred in the melting pot. Or atleast that is what they would have you or me to believe.

Basically I see Globalism as a by product of Capitalism with political motivations.

I think it is all wrong.

Governments only focus is economicism. Economicism at all cost even if it may costs the moral integrity or honor of it's citizens.

Individuality is considered anti-government or establishment these days.

You are not a individual they say. You are a number or percentage only to them.

Man is creating his own destruction with weapons of mass terror on such a large scale in history that can't even be compared to the past.

We have nuclear weapons that are weapons of death. We also have chemical and germ warfare.

Some scary stuff.

For all the money they give to other countries in Western Civilization I have yet to see them be so vigilant to help their own poor citizens on such a great magnitude.

When I say that I don't mean just throwing money at a situation hoping it to get better. I mean actually literally helping the poor citizens out thoroughly.


I can't forget the enviromental effects that man has on his enviroment.

Man has lost all bounds of any ecological sense.

There is no natural harmony with nature and the greatest treasure that we all have with our planet.

You will have groups like green peace or some other faction , but honestly they don't do that much and they seem more political then anything.

We are harming the earth with our industry and disregarding any consequence.

That is one of the main things I can't stand as I am a nature fanatic.

Emasculation and Pacifism. I can't stand it.

It seems to be a popular belief these days.

I think it makes us weak and it opens us being controlled by the government alot easier.

Give me a good angry person who wants change anyday. Or give me a angry person who is willing to defend their views or life anyday as well.

[Infinite Grey]

Sure the technology is great in many regards.

Not to mention that women have better understanding with rights in civilization and spirituality plus religion is no longer forced on people.

These things are great.

I am willing to blow a party horn for that.


Doesn't really add up with the rest of your post, but I'll leave it be for the onesy.



I will however play the advocate and say my complete disgust of the age we live.

I figured you would...



Family traditions and unity are at a all time low.

That is a matter of perception and region. Different countries have always held different customs and ethics involving family. So countries have actually improved in their family relations, becoming more intimate. While others have become a little more distant with the family traditions. So which culture are you referring to? Or do you believe the American Culture the a basis to which the rest of the world is modeled on?


Divorces are at a all time high.

Yes, but domestic violence is going down and is reported more often (giving the impression that it is rising). People are not putting up with what they do not have to... BUT again, which culture are you using as an umbrella for the whole world?


Children are growing up everyday with no family leadership.

That hasn't really changed, populations are higher, the number is higher, but the ratio is pretty much the same.



Traditional view points of family are being destroyed.

Only in the individualist nations, the collectist nations still have a strong family traditioins.... and no I'm not talking about communist states and capitialist states.


Ethics,morality,honor,courage,integrity,virtue are at a all time low in society.

Those are all a matter of perception, depending on which culture to which you refer... In some cultures it is bad manners to look superior in the eyes, other it's bad manners not to. Courage was never a cultural attribute; it's an individual quality, as is honor and virtue...


Nihilism or complete disregard for anything is on the rise.

Look into Utilitarianism... religious morality is not the be all and end all



I am constantly bombarded by capitalism and propaganda that seeks to control me into a consumer into modern consumerism.

Capitalism has its flaws, but it's better than any other system designed for a large populations.



Somthing like a cow that grazes that pays taxes is what consumerism is to me.


Maybe you should start an underground boxing club... SPACE MONKEY!


I am constantly surrounded by individuals at home who can't think for themselves who believe every yuppy piece of propaganda and other absurd things.

It's not civilization’s fault that you're surrounded by twits.



Political propaganda is at a all time high with the modern media system.

Only because of new forms of media that wasn't available 50 years ago, or 5000 years ago. Do not be naive in thinking the Romans, Persians or who ever you think were better, wouldn't use propaganda on the same scale if they could.


The government lies alot more these days and they pull it off alot better too.

It's funny that... The governments didn't lie in the past... the ancient governments didn't need to... "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!"


Infact I would say the government has got really good at lying compared to years past.


no more than the already did... if anything, it's getting harder for them to lie.


We are all moving into Globalism where the assimilation of every culture is inevitable the way I see it. Every distinction and difference that makes us great will cease to be.

I hate Globalism and I hope we come to our senses before it is too late. I support any anti-Globalism establishment that are peaceful.


Globalization does not equal uniformity, that is simply the worst case scenario... but if you insist on thinking like that... well, I wouldn't cross any more streets...


Indigenous people are disregarded completely and instead there are more incentives to immigrants of other nations then to indigenous people themselves.

Again, which country are you mapping against the whole world again?


Western Civilization in our greed can not even substain our own economies because of the demand of workers and products. With that indigenous people who made Western Civilization demand immigrants of all nations with incentives to come to our nations and displace us culturally, socially, politically and economically.

Governments only focus is economicism. Economicism at all costs even if it may costs the moral integrity or honor of it's citizens.

Yes yes big bad greedy western civilization... never mind what happens in the east, or the Middle East or South Africa? Wait! Nothing bad ever happens there! Trust me, I would rather have to deal with greed than what goes on in those countries.


Individuality is considered anti-government or establishment these days.

:yayah: sorry.... that's funny.


You are not a individual they say. You are a number or percentage only to them.

You are BOTH! The joys of a large population... that isn't culture, that's pupulation.



Man is creating his own destruction with weapons of mass terror on such a large scale in history that can't even be compared to the past.

mmmmm not really, I'd like to see how you got that idea.



We have nuclear weapons that are weapons of death. We also have chemical and germ warfare.

And the anciets had Catapults, trained war dogs, Greek Fire, a full range of torture devices, poisens for well... nothing has changed dude, just the scale.


Some scary stuff.

Yeah, I'm pissing my pants :lol:

[Grimr]

I'm holding my breath... really

I was putting my hand out in respect and now you would insult that with your sarcasm?

[Grimr]

Also Peacock I added many other beliefs of mine to my original post.

I think you might want to check it out.

You missed my enviromental post and many others.

Also I will reply to your post when I can get the time.

[Infinite Grey]

I was putting my hand out in respect and now you would insult that with your sarcasm?

You bet I would! It's a cultural thing :thumbsup:

[Grimr]

You bet I would! It's a cultural thing :thumbsup:

What is that supposed to mean?

[Infinite Grey]

There is a severe decrease in cultural unity especially with European people. The government for some odd reason dislikes any unity in some sense.


What are you on about here? Which government? You really need to stop modeling the world after your own country if you're talking on a global level... You can't win that way.



You are not a true global citizen if you are not stirred in the melting pot. Or atleast that is what they would have you or me to believe.

hmmmm racial purity is the way to go? Screw that! I'll shack it up with whom ever I want thank you.



Basically I see Globalism as a by product of Capitalism with political motivations.




cap·i·tal·ism (kăp'ĭ-tl-ĭz'əm)
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.



glob·al·ism (glō'bə-lĭz'əm)
n.
A national geopolitical policy in which the entire world is regarded as the appropriate sphere for a state's influence.


hmmmm a geopolitical policy that is driven by an economical system... wait! didn't communist nations have something similar in mind? THEY DID! Didn't they?




I think it is all wrong.

You're free to think that... I wonder why that is?



For all the money they give to other countries in Western Civilization I have yet to see them be so vigilant to help their own poor citizens on such a great magnitude.

Western citizen do not generally have to worry about soldiers busting down their doors and raping their 10 year old daughter or son. Western citizens generally can get something to eat fairly regularly. Western citizens have the comfort that no matter how bad their government is, it'll still be their tomorrow. No, Western Civilization does take care of its own, so much so they can afford to help countries less fortunate then themselves.


When I say that I don't mean just throwing money at a situation hoping it to get better. I mean actually literally helping the poor citizens out thoroughly.

That would be nice too, but it's still a lot better than poor people in ancient Rome, or Greece... unless you're hoping for slavery to emerge again? Or if you enter a country you have to apply for a half citizenship in order to almost be treated as a human? Oh yeah, modern civilization sucks, mmhmmm



I can't forget the enviromental effects that man has on his enviroment.

Man has lost all bounds of any ecological sense.

Meh, that is a matter or opinion... so might argue that we're actually a function of nature... but that's a topic for another thread.


There is no natural harmony with nature and the greatest treasure that we all have with our planet.

You will have groups like green peace or some other faction , but honestly they don't do that much and they seem more political then anything.

If you want "natural harmony" in the sense that I know you're referring... well let send us all back to the stone age! Then we can throw rocks at our shadows and die at the age of 25.



We are harming the earth with our industry and disregarding any consequence.

pish pish, any animal does that! Just look at what introduced animals are doing to the Australian environment... But it will adapt and survive... natural selection baby!


That is one of the main things I can't stand as I am a nature fanatic.

Better get off the internet then! The computer you're using caused pollution and waste in its building, the case to which it was stored had waste products... the electricity powering it is polluting the Earth on so many levels it's funny!



Emasculation and Pacifism. I can't stand it.
It seems to be a popular belief these days.

I'm sorry you feel as if you're less of a man... I sure don't. Hmmm pacifism... well it was non-passive action that lead to the creation of things like Weapons of Mass distration to which you "hate"... so which to you support?


I think it makes us weak and it opens us being controlled by the government alot easier.

Watch out for your TV screen... the FBI has a camera hidden in it!


Give me a good angry person who wants change anyday. Or give me a angry person who is willing to defend their views or life anyday as well.

Why do they have to be angry? Would you like a hug? I think you need a hug... we all need a hug.... GROUP HUG!


What is that supposed to mean?

What ever clicks in the clogs of your mind.

[WokeUpDead]

The end of the world has been right around the corner for thousands of years. In a billion years it might actually be true.

[Zephyrstorm]

Governments have always ignored the poor and downtrodden, have always lied and created propoganda. Some of the classic readings of Rome and Greece have tidbits of propoganda in them - read a story from Athens and get the story of how horrible Sparta is and how brilliant and blessed Athens is. ;)

That's the thing - today, we can get our news from more than just our government - we can go online and read the perspective of another nation to see what others think. The repercussions of that little fact are just beginning to roll through the world.


Judging other societies based upon your own societies' standards is foolish and ethnocentric. The "American" way is a dream that never existed. The Golden ages of the past were just as troubled as we are today.

My question for Dracon is this: What kind of moral decline are we talking about?
Are you meaning that it's horrible for the GLBT community to be so open and to pursue equal rights? (I'd disagree - I can't wait for the day that some of my friend's marriages will be recognized.)
We need specifics. What is declining in your opinion?

And I'd argue that those folks who are facing the war in Iraq are definitely NOT lacking in courage - it takes a lot of guts to face what they're facing - irregardless of what I think of the current administration and their war. I'd also argue that every single mom in this country that is working two jobs so that her children are fed and clothed is not lacking in courage. It's a scary place to be.

Divorce is necessary sometimes - is it better for the wife to stay with the husband who broke her arm, risking that her children later suffer the same kind of pains, or better for her to face the challenges of being a single mother and saving her children and herself from mental and physical harm?

150 years ago, a wife would have just had to live with it - so long as he didn't hit her with anything larger in width than his thumb. And had she stood up to him, she would have been ostracized more than he. I'd say that's a vast improvement.

Meanwhile 150 years ago, the kids would have been working in factories or in mines - and losing fingers and lives in the process - yay for Child Labor Laws. The 19th century - poor children tended to be uneducated, working by the age of 6 and dead way before they reached adulthood - if disease didn't kill them, work did.

my .02 cents.

[southern_fried_wicca]

I agree. Mankind really has not done anything new in the past several thousand years, technologically, socially, or whatever. Technology is the easiest example. The simple machines (screw, pulley, lever, so on..) have been around a long while. An airplane has only been around a little more than a century. But it uses simple machines to function, they are just organized in a way to take advantage of physics (also around for a long time) to get it up in the air. Society is the same way the tricks high school kids come up with for dodging class, lying to parents, and so forth are nothing new, the only thing that changes is language and time.

This is a much simplified expalination but it is only so because all I want to do is illustrate a point....and I am lazy

[Thunder]

I agree. Mankind really has not done anything new in the past several thousand years, technologically, socially, or whatever. Technology is the easiest example. The simple machines (screw, pulley, lever, so on..) have been around a long while. An airplane has only been around a little more than a century. But it uses simple machines to function, they are just organized in a way to take advantage of physics (also around for a long time) to get it up in the air. Society is the same way the tricks high school kids come up with for dodging class, lying to parents, and so forth are nothing new, the only thing that changes is language and time.

This is a much simplified expalination but it is only so because all I want to do is illustrate a point....and I am lazy

There has been more technological inovation in the last 50 years than in all of previous history. Prior to that, man's lifestyle and standard of living remained essentially unchanged for thousands of years. Mayhaps thee should have spent less time dodging class._wedgie_

[Cathubodva]

[QUOTE=semicivilizedman]TP has always existed, but it used to be called "leaves." Sometimes, on poorly planned camping trips, people rediscover this.

That was the reason why I said Toilet paper :lol:

[Tanya]

the modern world's got lots of minuses. but public health is pretty cool. Afterall, contagious disease used to kill more than half off all chilren before the age of 2. Vaccines for poli! and on a personal note, yeah for ventilators, that saved my life.

[Grimr]

Doesn't really add up with the rest of your post, but I'll leave it be for the onesy.




I figured you would...



That is a matter of perception and region. Different countries have always held different customs and ethics involving family. So countries have actually improved in their family relations, becoming more intimate. While others have become a little more distant with the family traditions. So which culture are you referring to? Or do you believe the American Culture the a basis to which the rest of the world is modeled on?



Yes, but domestic violence is going down and is reported more often (giving the impression that it is rising). People are not putting up with what they do not have to... BUT again, which culture are you using as an umbrella for the whole world?



That hasn't really changed, populations are higher, the number is higher, but the ratio is pretty much the same.



Only in the individualist nations, the collectist nations still have a strong family traditioins.... and no I'm not talking about communist states and capitialist states.



Those are all a matter of perception, depending on which culture to which you refer... In some cultures it is bad manners to look superior in the eyes, other it's bad manners not to. Courage was never a cultural attribute; it's an individual quality, as is honor and virtue...



Look into Utilitarianism... religious morality is not the be all and end all




Capitalism has its flaws, but it's better than any other system designed for a large populations.



Maybe you should start an underground boxing club... SPACE MONKEY!



It's not civilization’s fault that you're surrounded by twits.



Only because of new forms of media that wasn't available 50 years ago, or 5000 years ago. Do not be naive in thinking the Romans, Persians or who ever you think were better, wouldn't use propaganda on the same scale if they could.



It's funny that... The governments didn't lie in the past... the ancient governments didn't need to... "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!"


no more than the already did... if anything, it's getting harder for them to lie.



Globalization does not equal uniformity, that is simply the worst case scenario... but if you insist on thinking like that... well, I wouldn't cross any more streets...



Again, which country are you mapping against the whole world again?



Yes yes big bad greedy western civilization... never mind what happens in the east, or the Middle East or South Africa? Wait! Nothing bad ever happens there! Trust me, I would rather have to deal with greed than what goes on in those countries.



:yayah: sorry.... that's funny.



You are BOTH! The joys of a large population... that isn't culture, that's pupulation.



mmmmm not really, I'd like to see how you got that idea.



And the anciets had Catapults, trained war dogs, Greek Fire, a full range of torture devices, poisens for well... nothing has changed dude, just the scale.



Yeah, I'm pissing my pants :lol:






Doesn't really add up with the rest of your post, but I'll leave it be for the onesy.


I support women's rights I just think differently in the approach.





That is a matter of perception and region. Different countries have always held different customs and ethics involving family. So countries have actually improved in their family relations, becoming more intimate. While others have become a little more distant with the family traditions. So which culture are you referring to? Or do you believe the American Culture the a basis to which the rest of the world is modeled on?




So which culture are you referring to?

Western Civilization Which I view to be America,Canada,Europe,Russia,Australia.

I emphasize more on America though because we seem to be one that create most of the modern forms of civilization.

When you say some become distant to family I think that is exactly it , but on much more deeper level.



Yes, but domestic violence is going down and is reported more often (giving the impression that it is rising). People are not putting up with what they do not have to... BUT again, which culture are you using as an umbrella for the whole world?

Western civilization.



at hasn't really changed, populations are higher, the number is higher, but the ratio is pretty much the same.

It is true though.



Only in the individualist nations, the collectist nations still have a strong family traditioins.... and no I'm not talking about communist states and capitialist states.


Could you elaborate on individualist nations?

Again I am speaking about Western Civilization.




Those are all a matter of perception, depending on which culture to which you refer... In some cultures it is bad manners to look superior in the eyes, other it's bad manners not to. Courage was never a cultural attribute; it's an individual quality, as is honor and virtue...

I am speaking about Western Civilization.


Look into Utilitarianism... religious morality is not the be all and end all

Isn't that the thought that if I kill ten people no matter how innocent they are for the greater that I am justified for my actions?....................


I could be wrong for some reason that popped up in my head.






Capitalism has its flaws, but it's better than any other system designed for a large populations.


Which is ironic it being the only system we have , yet in my eyes it does more bad then good.


Only because of new forms of media that wasn't available 50 years ago, or 5000 years ago. Do not be naive in thinking the Romans, Persians or who ever you think were better, wouldn't use propaganda on the same scale if they could.

Well they didn't so I am only criticizing us.



It's funny that... The governments didn't lie in the past... the ancient governments didn't need to... "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!"

They did their share of lieing too. I am not denying that.


I am just saying our governments does it more.



no more than the already did... if anything, it's getting harder for them to lie.

Harder how?

I think they are doing pretty good on it with numerous subjects.



Globalization does not equal uniformity, that is simply the worst case scenario... but if you insist on thinking like that... well, I wouldn't cross any more streets...

What is that suppose to mean?



Again, which country are you mapping against the whole world again?

Western Civilization.




Yes yes big bad greedy western civilization... never mind what happens in the east, or the Middle East or South Africa? Wait! Nothing bad ever happens there! Trust me, I would rather have to deal with greed than what goes on in those countries.

A lesser evil does not make a right.




:yayah: sorry.... that's funny.

I meant more so these days granted that I did mess that post up real bad.




And the anciets had Catapults, trained war dogs, Greek Fire, a full range of torture devices, poisens for well... nothing has changed dude, just the scale.

I am just saying that the scale is much larger and more horrific.



Yeah, I'm pissing my pants :lol:

You have a sarcastic answer for everything.

[Grimr]

What are you on about here? Which government? You really need to stop modeling the world after your own country if you're talking on a global level... You can't win that way.



hmmmm racial purity is the way to go? Screw that! I'll shack it up with whom ever I want thank you.







hmmmm a geopolitical policy that is driven by an economical system... wait! didn't communist nations have something similar in mind? THEY DID! Didn't they?





You're free to think that... I wonder why that is?




Western citizen do not generally have to worry about soldiers busting down their doors and raping their 10 year old daughter or son. Western citizens generally can get something to eat fairly regularly. Western citizens have the comfort that no matter how bad their government is, it'll still be their tomorrow. No, Western Civilization does take care of its own, so much so they can afford to help countries less fortunate then themselves.



That would be nice too, but it's still a lot better than poor people in ancient Rome, or Greece... unless you're hoping for slavery to emerge again? Or if you enter a country you have to apply for a half citizenship in order to almost be treated as a human? Oh yeah, modern civilization sucks, mmhmmm



Meh, that is a matter or opinion... so might argue that we're actually a function of nature... but that's a topic for another thread.



If you want "natural harmony" in the sense that I know you're referring... well let send us all back to the stone age! Then we can throw rocks at our shadows and die at the age of 25.



pish pish, any animal does that! Just look at what introduced animals are doing to the Australian environment... But it will adapt and survive... natural selection baby!



Better get off the internet then! The computer you're using caused pollution and waste in its building, the case to which it was stored had waste products... the electricity powering it is polluting the Earth on so many levels it's funny!



I'm sorry you feel as if you're less of a man... I sure don't. Hmmm pacifism... well it was non-passive action that lead to the creation of things like Weapons of Mass distration to which you "hate"... so which to you support?



Watch out for your TV screen... the FBI has a camera hidden in it!



Why do they have to be angry? Would you like a hug? I think you need a hug... we all need a hug.... GROUP HUG!



What ever clicks in the clogs of your mind.





What are you on about here? Which government? You really need to stop modeling the world after your own country if you're talking on a global level... You can't win that way.

I am talking about Western Civilization.

Most Western Countries are based on similiar thought and government.




hmmmm racial purity is the way to go? Screw that! I'll shack it up with whom ever I want thank you.


What is that suppose to mean?

I am merely saying that European people in our many cultural traditions used to be culturally unified and today we are not even close to the way we were.

The only thing that unifies us today is our self indulgent consumer driven lives.

Also I think globalization will strip non-European cultures of their beliefs too.

Infact I truely believe globalization is good for noone.

I speak about European culture alot because my family come from Europe.




hmmmm a geopolitical policy that is driven by an economical system... wait! didn't communist nations have something similar in mind? THEY DID! Didn't they?

Marxism is still around in big force today beyond the boundries of many Western countries.



You're free to think that... I wonder why that is?

What do you mean?



That would be nice too, but it's still a lot better than poor people in ancient Rome, or Greece... unless you're hoping for slavery to emerge again? Or if you enter a country you have to apply for a half citizenship in order to almost be treated as a human? Oh yeah, modern civilization sucks, mmhmmm

All I was saying is we could do better with the vast array of resources that we have.



Meh, that is a matter or opinion... so might argue that we're actually a function of nature... but that's a topic for another thread.

Personally I don't see how one can talk about modern civilization without talking about enviromentalism.




If you want "natural harmony" in the sense that I know you're referring... well let send us all back to the stone age! Then we can throw rocks at our shadows and die at the age of 25.

That is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about a mindful technological civilization that could live in harmony with the nature around it.

Now imagine that.




pish pish, any animal does that! Just look at what introduced animals are doing to the Australian environment... But it will adapt and survive... natural selection baby!

Well that so called naturalization of selection to me is wrong.



Better get off the internet then! The computer you're using caused pollution and waste in its building, the case to which it was stored had waste products... the electricity powering it is polluting the Earth on so many levels it's funny!


You are acting like I am anti technology , but I am not.

I am just saying we could do better to regulate it.




I'm sorry you feel as if you're less of a man... I sure don't. Hmmm pacifism... well it was non-passive action that lead to the creation of things like Weapons of Mass distration to which you "hate"... so which to you support?

I meant it in a sense beyond war in our culture.

It is my opinion that our society has too much apathy and nothing gets done right.



Watch out for your TV screen... the FBI has a camera hidden in it!

Your sarcasm is annoying and dually noted.

[jcldragon]

Sure the technology is great in many regards.

Not to mention that women have better understanding with rights in civilization and spirituality plus religion is no longer forced on people.

These things are great.

I am willing to blow a party horn for that. ;)





I will however play the advocate and say my complete disgust of the age we live.

Family traditions and unity are at a all time low.

Divorces are at a all time high.

Secularism is on the rise. Not that I want religion and state to be mixed , but It seems spirituality and religion is heavily lacking in our societies.

Children are growing up everyday with no family leadership.

Traditional view points of family are being destroyed.

Ethics,morality,honor,courage,integrity,virtue are at a all time low in society.

Our values are in the wrong place. We value greed and desire more than anything these days.

We truely live in the " Me." culture today.

Nihilism or complete disregard for anything is on the rise.


I am constantly bombarded by capitalism and propaganda that seeks to control me into a consumer into modern consumerism.

Somthing like a cow that grazes that pays taxes is what consumerism is to me.


I am constantly surrounded by individuals at home who can't think for themselves who believe every yuppy piece of propaganda and other absurd things.

Political propaganda is at a all time high with the modern media system.

The government lies alot more these days and they pull it off alot better too.

Infact I would say the government has got really good at lying compared to years past.

We are all moving into Globalism where the assimilation of every culture is inevitable the way I see it. Every distinction and difference that makes us great will cease to be.

I hate Globalism and I hope we come to our senses before it is too late. I support any anti-Globalism establishment that are peaceful.

Indigenous people are disregarded completely and instead there are more incentives to immigrants of other nations then to indigenous people themselves.

Western Civilization in our greed can not even substain our own economies because of the demand of workers and products. With that indigenous people who made Western Civilization demand immigrants of all nations with incentives to come to our nations and displace us culturally,socially,politically and economically.

There is a severe decrease in cultural unity especially with European people. The government for some odd reason dislikes any unity in some sense.

You are not a true global citizen if you are not stirred in the melting pot. Or atleast that is what they would have you or me to believe.

Basically I see Globalism as a by product of Capitalism with political motivations.

I think it is all wrong.

Governments only focus is economicism. Economicism at all cost even if it may costs the moral integrity or honor of it's citizens.

Individuality is considered anti-government or establishment these days.

You are not a individual they say. You are a number or percentage only to them.

Man is creating his own destruction with weapons of mass terror on such a large scale in history that can't even be compared to the past.

We have nuclear weapons that are weapons of death. We also have chemical and germ warfare.

Some scary stuff.

For all the money they give to other countries in Western Civilization I have yet to see them be so vigilant to help their own poor citizens on such a great magnitude.

When I say that I don't mean just throwing money at a situation hoping it to get better. I mean actually literally helping the poor citizens out thoroughly.


I can't forget the enviromental effects that man has on his enviroment.

Man has lost all bounds of any ecological sense.

There is no natural harmony with nature and the greatest treasure that we all have with our planet.

You will have groups like green peace or some other faction , but honestly they don't do that much and they seem more political then anything.

We are harming the earth with our industry and disregarding any consequence.

That is one of the main things I can't stand as I am a nature fanatic.

Emasculation and Pacifism. I can't stand it.

It seems to be a popular belief these days.

I think it makes us weak and it opens us being controlled by the government alot easier.

Give me a good angry person who wants change anyday. Or give me a angry person who is willing to defend their views or life anyday as well.

Plato, and many after him, said the same things of the societies they lived in. People often speak well of the good old days, remembering them as they wish they had been, rather than as they were. Perfection is always a work-in-progress, and not something that can ever really be attained, because when we get there, we will see that we can still do much better.

On this planet we have people at every level of Spiritual Realization. It matches the Probability Curve in distribution. Some are far in advance of the vast majority, living their lives in ways that draw the rest into a higher level of awareness. Others are focused upon dark things, solely for personal power over everyone else, using Ignorance, Greed, & Fear as their tools. However, experience itself is a great teacher for humanity, and no matter what those focused upon power do, they cannot stop the gradual awakening of people in general. That fact is often overlooked by people in advance of the majority at the center, leading them to frustration & dispair for their neighbors.

I sure won't blame anyone for feeling that way, but I should point out that you are not as alone as you might suppose. Let me give you an example from current politics. On the right wing, there are Conservationists, while on the left wing, there are Environmentalists. These two groups are finding each other, and beginning to work together, because they have discovered that they have a whole lot more in common, than they do different. And their differences are not all that great at all, since on the right wing, personal responsibility is emphasized, whereas on the left wing, social responsibility is emphasized. It ought to be clear that a healthy society needs both. In the next few years you will see this as a new coalition in American politics, one that will wrest power from Corporations, and give it back to the people.

[Vincent Verthaine]

In the next few years you will see this as a new coalition in American politics, one that will wrest power from Corporations, and give it back to the people.
Personally,I really hope so,but I'm not holding my breath.

People in positions of power really don't like to give up,much less have someone wrest away, their power with out putting up a really biiiig fight.

It can be done,mind you,but it will be most likely ugly,brutal,nasty affair,with a lot of good people being killed in the process.And that is probably what it's going to take.Our you sure this country is ready for that,because personally,I don't think we got it in us.We've become too content,too pacified,too lazy,too spoiled,and too sedated.

You're not talking about talking down a petty tyrant,your talking about taking on a vital part of the SYSTEM itself.

The SYSTEM will defend itself.
And the SYSTEM has really nasty claws and fangs.

We as a society have let that BEAST we call the SYSTEM get larger ,fatter,hungrier,meaner,and more ruthless since we discordians first came on the scene in the early sixties warning that the SYSTEM is getting out of control.

That's why we discordians fight the SYSTEM in such a roundabout way as O:MFs and jakes.We have no desire to get ourselves thrown in jail,"disappeared',or sniped. Unless the masses are willing to fight along side us(which they are not),we Erisians are not about to get ourselves killed for nothing.
Erisians make very unwilling matyrs.

[Deranged Hermit]

This is a very interesting and informative thread, and remind me never to get into a debate with Iggy. ;)
I'm a big fan of modern conveniences such as indoor plumbing. I lived in a tent for a month one time. That was enough, thank you. :)

~DH
pacifist who happens to be a fair shot with a .22

[Aelfoak]

Most of modern accomplishments materially that have been created by modern civilisation - have been good for humanity, but at the same time we fail miserably with how we treat each other as human beings, until we learn how to overcome this, then all of our achievements will have been for nothing.

[Infinite Grey]

Most of modern accomplishments materially that have been created by modern civilisation - have been good for humanity, but at the same time we fail miserably with how we treat each other as human beings, until we learn how to overcome this, then all of our achievements will have been for nothing.

And this is different from any other time period how?

[Grimr]

Personally,I really hope so,but I'm not holding my breath.

People in positions of power really don't like to give up,much less have someone wrest away, their power with out putting up a really biiiig fight.

It can be done,mind you,but it will be most likely ugly,brutal,nasty affair,with a lot of good people being killed in the process.And that is probably what it's going to take.Our you sure this country is ready for that,because personally,I don't think we got it in us.We've become too content,too pacified,too lazy,too spoiled,and too sedated.
You're not talking about talking down a petty tyrant,your talking about taking on a vital part of the SYSTEM itself.

The SYSTEM will defend itself.
And the SYSTEM has really nasty claws and fangs.

We as a society have let that BEAST we call the SYSTEM get larger ,fatter,hungrier,meaner,and more ruthless since we discordians first came on the scene in the early sixties warning that the SYSTEM is getting out of control.

That's why we discordians fight the SYSTEM in such a roundabout way as O:MFs and jakes.We have no desire to get ourselves thrown in jail,"disappeared',or sniped. Unless the masses are willing to fight along side us(which they are not),we Erisians are not about to get ourselves killed for nothing.
Erisians make very unwilling matyrs.


What is Discordians?

I keep hear you talking about it.




Our you sure this country is ready for that,because personally,I don't think we got it in us.We've become too content,too pacified,too lazy,too spoiled,and too sedated.


That much I agree with it.


And this is different from any other time period how?

Technology means more control on a large magnitude , but with it comes even bigger consequences if it is fashioned in society for wrongful purposes.

More power means more consequences than years past.


Most of modern accomplishments materially that have been created by modern civilisation - have been good for humanity, but at the same time we fail miserably with how we treat each other as human beings, until we learn how to overcome this, then all of our achievements will have been for nothing.

Totally agreed! :)

We need to learn some humility.

[WokeUpDead]

I think most of the reason people think things are getting so bad is because it's a way to feel special. If we think we have it easier than our ancestors did then it might seem like they were better than us and we are just coasting along and taking up space. To think that it's all a big struggle and that we have it so much worse is one way for us to feel tougher. In some extreme cases there are the people that think the world is about to end. It would definitely be more impressive to be one of the very last people instead of just another step in the road.

[Grimr]

Plato, and many after him, said the same things of the societies they lived in. People often speak well of the good old days, remembering them as they wish they had been, rather than as they were. Perfection is always a work-in-progress, and not something that can ever really be attained, because when we get there, we will see that we can still do much better.

On this planet we have people at every level of Spiritual Realization. It matches the Probability Curve in distribution. Some are far in advance of the vast majority, living their lives in ways that draw the rest into a higher level of awareness. Others are focused upon dark things, solely for personal power over everyone else, using Ignorance, Greed, & Fear as their tools. However, experience itself is a great teacher for humanity, and no matter what those focused upon power do, they cannot stop the gradual awakening of people in general. That fact is often overlooked by people in advance of the majority at the center, leading them to frustration & dispair for their neighbors.

I sure won't blame anyone for feeling that way, but I should point out that you are not as alone as you might suppose. Let me give you an example from current politics. On the right wing, there are Conservationists, while on the left wing, there are Environmentalists. These two groups are finding each other, and beginning to work together, because they have discovered that they have a whole lot more in common, than they do different. And their differences are not all that great at all, since on the right wing, personal responsibility is emphasized, whereas on the left wing, social responsibility is emphasized. It ought to be clear that a healthy society needs both. In the next few years you will see this as a new coalition in American politics, one that will wrest power from Corporations, and give it back to the people.





Plato, and many after him, said the same things of the societies they lived in. People often speak well of the good old days, remembering them as they wish they had been, rather than as they were. Perfection is always a work-in-progress, and not something that can ever really be attained, because when we get there, we will see that we can still do much better.


There was Hesiod before Plato too. I know there will always be some discontents in every era. I can not deny that, however the magnitude of our current era that is strikingly higher then all others has led me to my current understanding of things.

I can not also deny that in our era things have changed too fast leaving no time for cultural adaptation for all societies.

A culture needs moderation and if it has no moderation it will always be in the extremes doomed to failure.

I know there is no such thing as perfection I just personally think we can do far much better then we are now.




On this planet we have people at every level of Spiritual Realization. It matches the Probability Curve in distribution. Some are far in advance of the vast majority, living their lives in ways that draw the rest into a higher level of awareness. Others are focused upon dark things, solely for personal power over everyone else, using Ignorance, Greed, & Fear as their tools. However, experience itself is a great teacher for humanity, and no matter what those focused upon power do, they cannot stop the gradual awakening of people in general. That fact is often overlooked by people in advance of the majority at the center, leading them to frustration & dispair for their neighbors.

Many are awakened but they are surpassed by the unawakened.........




I sure won't blame anyone for feeling that way, but I should point out that you are not as alone as you might suppose. Let me give you an example from current politics. On the right wing, there are Conservationists, while on the left wing, there are Environmentalists. These two groups are finding each other, and beginning to work together, because they have discovered that they have a whole lot more in common, than they do different. And their differences are not all that great at all, since on the right wing, personal responsibility is emphasized, whereas on the left wing, social responsibility is emphasized. It ought to be clear that a healthy society needs both. In the next few years you will see this as a new coalition in American politics, one that will wrest power from Corporations, and give it back to the people

I hope you are right , but you must understand my doubts on the current situation.

[Fire's Shadow]

Hooray Modern civ! Hooray internet and refrigerators!

[WokeUpDead]

There was Hesiod before Plato too. I know there will always be some discontents in every era. I can not deny that, however the magnitude of our current era that is strikingly higher then all others has led me to my current understanding of things.

I can not also deny that in our era things have changed too fast leaving no time for cultural adaptation for all societies.

A culture needs moderation and if it has no moderation it will always be in the extremes doomed to failure.
Well don't you think that people thought there was no moderation back then too?

[Grimr]

I think most of the reason people think things are getting so bad is because it's a way to feel special. If we think we have it easier than our ancestors did then it might seem like they were better than us and we are just coasting along and taking up space. To think that it's all a big struggle and that we have it so much worse is one way for us to feel tougher. In some extreme cases there are the people that think the world is about to end. It would definitely be more impressive to be one of the very last people instead of just another step in the road.

I think it is the opposite.

I view many to think themselves superior in their technological innovation and invention that they think their lives are so much better in a modern romantic fixation.

Of course noone wants to talk about that.


Well don't you think that people thought there was no moderation back then too?

Of course.

I just view that as man progresses in time he becomes more of a extreme creature and constantly becoming self destructive.

I can definately imagine Hesiod thinking so.

What I think is different today is our technological era and our capacity of power that surpasses anytime in history.

I believe we are on a much larger scale and magnitude because of that.

With a larger magnitude I believe our society is going into large extents of extremes.

[WokeUpDead]

I think it is the opposite.

I view many to think themselves superior in their technological innovation and invention that they think their lives are so much better in a modern romantic fixation.

Of course noone wants to talk about that.
Could be. But very few people would argue that a lot of technological innovations have made things much easier for us.

[Grimr]

Could be. But very few people would argue that a lot of technological innovations have made things much easier for us.

Is easier convenience or more power always better though?


A person of wisdom would say moderation for if there is no moderation there would only be extremes.


Also the worse extremes are those that gets society to be accustomed to them and actually coerces society to indulge in them.

[ravenscape]

Give it up for TIVO!!!11!!!eleven!! :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise:

And we wouldn't even NEED TIVO if it weren't for the SciFi channel :lookwhats :lookwhats

[WokeUpDead]

Is easier convenience or more power always better though?


A person of wisdom would say moderation for if there is no moderation there would only be extremes.


Also the worse extremes are those that gets society to be accustomed to them and actually coerces society to indulge in them.
It's not always better. Nukes make it a lot easier to tear an enemy country to pieces but that's not necessarily a good thing.

What are these extremes that you keep talking about anyways?


Give it up for TIVO!!!11!!!eleven!! :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise:

And we wouldn't even NEED TIVO if it weren't for the SciFi channel :lookwhats :lookwhats
I use tivo for movies mostly.

[Grimr]

It's not always better. Nukes make it a lot easier to tear an enemy country to pieces but that's not necessarily a good thing.

What are these extremes that you keep talking about anyways?


I use tivo for movies mostly.





It's not always better. Nukes make it a lot easier to tear an enemy country to pieces but that's not necessarily a good thing.


Agreed.



What are these extremes that you keep talking about anyways?


The dark side of humanity in every age is the extremes.

I am only saying that our destructive side is more magnified due to our technological innovation and power at a higher magnitude today.

[Bethra]

No matter what anyone says the argument will never turn against technology for me. Modern advancement has made it possible for me to connect with people halfway round the world in a very real and very posative way. Though I will always be a priestess of the old ways I can always find room in my life for something which will help me spread my word of love to those I care about.

Above and beyond what sociaty itself does, if we can look into our own hearts and know that we have been authentic to ourselves every step of the way, and if we can trust in ourselves not to make the same mistake twice it really doesn't matter how far we as a civilisation upon earth go because we will always be true to ourselves.

[Grimr]

No matter what anyone says the argument will never turn against technology for me. Modern advancement has made it possible for me to connect with people halfway round the world in a very real and very posative way. Though I will always be a priestess of the old ways I can always find room in my life for something which will help me spread my word of love to those I care about.

Above and beyond what sociaty itself does, if we can look into our own hearts and know that we have been authentic to ourselves every step of the way, and if we can trust in ourselves not to make the same mistake twice it really doesn't matter how far we as a civilisation upon earth go because we will always be true to ourselves.


If it was up to me I wouldn't have to use a computer or a invention to talk to people I would be able to do so outside my doorway.

The only reason why I use the internet is the privitization of everything including sociality.

[Infinite Grey]

If it was up to me I wouldn't have to use a computer or a invention to talk to people I would be able to do so outside my doorway.

The only reason why I use the internet is the privitization of everything including sociality.

That would be a step backwards, and lead to things like; ignorance of other cultures, with intolerance of things that a different as a further result. General knowledge would decrease as it would not be a readily available, family ties with distant relatives or wayward relatives would be reduced to almost nothing again.

Communication is the key to a successful society, and the development of communication is driven by economics and cultural development. It's all interconnected, you can't have one without the other.

[Grimr]

That would be a step backwards, and lead to things like; ignorance of other cultures, with intolerance of things that a different as a further result. General knowledge would decrease as it would not be a readily available, family ties with distant relatives or wayward relatives would be reduced to almost nothing again.

Communication is the key to a successful society, and the development of communication is driven by economics and cultural development. It's all interconnected, you can't have one without the other.





That would be a step backwards, and lead to things like; ignorance of other cultures, with intolerance of things that a different as a further result. General knowledge would decrease as it would not be a readily available, family ties with distant relatives or wayward relatives would be reduced to almost nothing again.


I don't feel compelled to have constant association with other cultures as I feel I can obtain a sense of humility by associating with my own as well.

I do however value other cultures as all cultures have somthing good and virtuous about them.

There is nothing intolerant about be inwardly in ones own culture.

People who do so can still have a peaceful dialogue with others outside of their culture.

That is a bit of a common myth perpetuated by the global elite.

Why multiculturalism has fell in the trap of tyrannical thinking is beyond me.





General knowledge would decrease as it would not be a readily available, family ties with distant relatives or wayward relatives would be reduced to almost nothing again.


I am not supporting the total cut of communication by a technological means.

I am only supporting more communities getting together apart from machines in cultural centers in every city and town.

I believe it to be truely a good human thing to do so.

[Infinite Grey]

I don't feel compelled to have constant association with other cultures as I feel I can obtain a sense of humility by associating with my own as well.

I do however value other cultures as all cultures have somthing good and virtuous about them.

Actually you've demonstrated a commonly held belief that the US is fairly inwardly slanted with it's attitude. You your self have stated that modern civilization is based on the US culture, this is a fallacy. You've judged the western civilization largely on the US culture, to which you haven't even really nailed to begin with. This in it's self demonstrates why monoculturalism is inferior to multiculturalism, as the risk of insult or miscommunication rises with ignorance. Do yourself a favour and study Cultural Communication, in which you'll see the advantages of multiculturalism over monocultures.


There is nothing intolerant about be inwardly in ones own culture.

People who do so can still have a peaceful dialogue with others.

If you would read my response in the other thread (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=132446&page=33) you'll noticed that I gave the tip of the iceberg in regards to how peaceful dialogue is hard to achieve without multiculturalism



That is a bit of a common myth perpetuated by the global elite.

Not really, truth is closer to the point. monoculturalism being the superior cause is the myth.



Why multiculturalism has fell in the trap of tyrannical thinking is beyond me.

Multicultural nations are far less tyrannical than most of the monoculture nations... unless you think North Korea is a particularly nice place to live?





I am not supporting the total cut of communication by a technological means.

I am only supporting more communities getting together apart from machines in cultural centers in every city and town.

You should either a> be more clear with your statements or b>stick with one statement.


I believe it to be truely a good human thing to do so.

Ummmm... you're still judging the world after one Culture.

[Grimr]

Actually you've demonstrated a commonly held belief that the US is fairly inwardly slanted with it's attitude. You your self have stated that modern civilization is based on the US culture, this is a fallacy. You've judged the western civilization largely on the US culture, to which you haven't even really nailed to begin with. This in it's self demonstrates why monoculturalism is inferior to multiculturalism, as the risk of insult or miscommunication rises with ignorance. Do yourself a favour and study Cultural Communication, in which you'll see the advantages of multiculturalism over monocultures.



If you would read my response in the other thread (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=132446&page=33) you'll noticed that I gave the tip of the iceberg in regards to how peaceful dialogue is hard to achieve without multiculturalism



Not really, truth is closer to the point. monoculturalism being the superior cause is the myth.



Multicultural nations are far less tyrannical than most of the monoculture nations... unless you think North Korea is a particularly nice place to live?






You should either a> be more clear with your statements or b>stick with one statement.



Ummmm... you're still judging the world after one Culture.





Actually you've demonstrated a commonly held belief that the US is fairly inwardly slanted with it's attitude. You your self have stated that modern civilization is based on the US culture, this is a fallacy. You've judged the western civilization largely on the US culture, to which you haven't even really nailed to begin with.


Who dominated Western politics after World War II?

Who was the sole nation that advanced industrialization in the early 1900's?


Who started some of the first Capitalistic principles that mostly Western civilization around the world is dominated under?

Who dominated media thought and spreaded ideas of the media systems across the world?

Who dominates the world's economy?

Two words. Wall Street.

Enough said.

Where is Australia's principle of government,economy and politics derived off of?




This in it's self demonstrates why monoculturalism is inferior to multiculturalism, as the risk of insult or miscommunication rises with ignorance. Do yourself a favour and study Cultural Communication, in which you'll see the advantages of multiculturalism over monocultures.


All cultures around the world started in isolation.

Isolation gives cultures the beginnings of distinction and self awareness.

In my opinion world cultural distinction is a very well balanced creation since the beginning of the world.

In our modern sense of equality we should in theory be able to acknowledge our distinctions at great length in common respect and humility.


A monoculturalism system is only operating in such a modern sense like all cultures have since the beginning of civilization.


There is nothing inferior or considerably weak about a singular nation that is well inward in itself in full cultural unity infact I would say that they are strong nations.


Multiculturalism makes me at odds.

If multiculturalism believes in equality of distinctions and values then why does it support the assimilation of cultures on the point that it believes cultures are constructs?


It makes no sense.


The only way it makes sense is if it is used as a system of control. This truely is my opinion.


In my opinion cultures can't survive with full competition. It just can't. There are reasons why world cultures thrive on two thousand years of isolation.

What is even more interesting in my belief is that multiculturalism is a system of capitalism for profit gain and economical control.


Competing cultures in one place are constantly competing in a system that literally thrives on the people competing each other even if the circumstances might be harmful.

The competing cultures acknowledge their beliefs of differences and celebrate them while competing with each other and yet the government supports the competition to perpetuate a illusion of freedom and equality that does not exist.

The reason for this is all the many cultures in one center or country are just apart of the proloteriat working party or global working ideal.

There is no cultural difference to the multiculturalist government , but only a constant supply and demand of workers to perpetuate a system of economicsm that only exists becuase of supply and demand with complete disregard of cultural integrity.

Therefore multiculturalism only supports assimilation of all cultures dropping the barrier of celebrated and respect differences.

Multiculturalism becomes a tool of Capitalistic control of the population that only operates as a working force.

Multiculturalism plays right in the hands of the global elite who want Globalism.

Monoculturalism on the other hand may have flaws , but is much in better regards then Multiculturalism.



You should either a> be more clear with your statements or b>stick with one statement.

You are definately right.

I think part of my reasons in the past was that I was mistakenly in a rush in my posts with my busy lifestyle , but now I am taking time to make my posts and in my opinion they are coming out more clearer.

I thank you for your advice.



Multicultural nations are far less tyrannical than most of the monoculture nations... unless you think North Korea is a particularly nice place to live?

And you say I use one country out of place.



Ummmm... you're still judging the world after one Culture

Only when justified.

[Grimr]

I would also state that just because a monoculturalism society is hard to make peace with others outside of their culture does not make it impossible.

Anything that is hard , but with great benefits in the end is certainly somthing worth trying.


I think a monocultural society or one that is homogeneous could look inwardly and be strong inwardly in itself and at the sametime have peaceful dialogue with other nations.


I think if you support multiculturalism you support globalism and assimilation of all peoples killing off our great cultural distinctions.

I also think that one can support monoculturalism or homogeneous ideals and still embrace and respect different peoples plus cultures around the world.

I think it is false thinking that someone with such ideals are intolerant.

There are intolerant people all across the world.


This is my belief.

[Bethra]

If it was up to me I wouldn't have to use a computer or a invention to talk to people I would be able to do so outside my doorway.

The only reason why I use the internet is the privitization of everything including sociality.

Right umm I think you're missing a point here. Without my computer I couldn't keep up with my big brother in Salt Lake and my little brother in Sydney and my other little brother in Ireland, and my fabulous girlfriend in Ohio and all the other truely wonderfull people who have touched my life in a very really and posative way.

I say bah humbug to you young man because you just can't see the quality of life before you. You'll spend your life looking backwards hankering after a time that can never be again when you should embrace life and make the very best of it.

Yesterday I buried my mam and if there is one thing she taught me it was to honour the past but leave it where it is, because its gone and we must live instead in the here and now. Only by doing this will we ever be truely authentic and only through authentisity can we hope to make the best of our lives.

[Infinite Grey]

Who dominated Western politics after World War II?

Britain, USSR, USA, and a few other countries


Who was the sole nation that advanced industrialization in the early 1900's?

See above, but include Germany, Italy, and few others



Who started some of the first Capitalistic principles that mostly Western civilization around the world is dominated under?

Britain... with the introduction of merchant capitalism and mercantilism between the 16th and 18th century.


Who dominated media thought and spread ideas of the media systems across the world?

That depends on what form of media system you're referring to. Tim Berners-Lee pioneered the use of hypertext and created the first web browser, he was British.

With Television it was equal parts The US and the UK... the first modern level of definition (240+ lines) were made in England in 1936.

Wait! I forgot, you live in a fairly inwardly centered culture! Of cause you wouldn't know any of this!


Who dominates the world's economy?

Now? US, UK, Japan, Euro, and soon China and India.


Two words. Wall Street.

Not the only world market



Enough said.

Not really.


Where is Australia's principle of government,economy and politics derived off of?

Britian you twit! We use the Windser government, very different from the USA. Our economics are based on capitilism, with three real keys. Argriculture, Resources, and tourism.




All cultures around the world started in isolation.

Nope, the roman’s developed from two cultures and then a great deal more... look into it.


Isolation gives cultures the beginnings of distinction and self awareness.

But it also stunts it's growth.



In my opinion world cultural distinction is a very well balanced creation since the beginning of the world.

Not entirely.


In our modern sense of equality we should in theory be able to acknowledge our distinctions at great length in common respect and humility.

And we do... or would you like to revert back to killing anyone different?



A monoculturalism system is only operating in such a modern sense like all cultures have since the beginning of civilization.

What?



There is nothing inferior or considerably weak about a singular nation that is well inward in itself in full cultural unity infact I would say that they are strong nations.

Like whom?



Multiculturalism makes me at odds.

If multiculturalism believes in equality of distinctions and values then why does it support the assimilation of cultures on the point that it believes cultures are constructs?

actually it doesn't, it creates an overall blanket culture to which one can retain one's original culture within.



It makes no sense.

Sure it does



The only way it makes sense is if it is used as a system of control. This truely is my opinion.

And a Monocultural nation isn't a worse form of control?



In my opinion cultures can't survive with full competition. It just can't. There are reasons why world cultures thrive on two thousand years of isolation.

Thrive isn't really correct, China has undergone some very dramatic changes, largely because that two thousand year culture almost spelled their destruction.


What is even more interesting in my belief is that multiculturalism is a system of capitalism for profit gain and economical control.

Which is just silly.



Competing cultures in one place are constantly competing in a system that literally thrives on the people competing each other even if the circumstances might be harmful.

Ummmm what? You have a vivid imagination, name one instance where this takes place.


The competing cultures acknowledge their beliefs of differences and celebrate them while competing with each other and yet the government supports the competition to perpetuate a illusion of freedom and equality that does not exist.

How so?


The reason for this is all the many cultures in one center or country are just apart of the proloteriat working party or global working ideal.

There is no cultural difference , but only a constant supply and demand of workers to perpetuate a system of economicsm that only exists becuase of supply and demand with complete disregard of cultural integrity.

I really think you're confusing economics with cultural identity.

Therefore multiculturalism only supports assimilation of all cultures dropping the barrier of celebrated and respect differences.



Multiculturalism becomes a tool of Capitalistic control of the population that only operates as a working force.

Yes ph34r teh capitalistic dogs!



Multiculturalism plays right in the hands of the global elite who want Globalism.
You know, I bet you think the lundar landing was a hoax too.



Monoculturalism on the other hand may have flaws , but is much in better regards then Multiculturalism.
And you say I use one country out of place.


Ok, name me one pure Monoculturalist nation that isn't tyrannical.





Only when justified.

How are you justified? I can't stress how wrong you are

[Grimr]

Right umm I think you're missing a point here. Without my computer I couldn't keep up with my big brother in Salt Lake and my little brother in Sydney and my other little brother in Ireland, and my fabulous girlfriend in Ohio and all the other truely wonderfull people who have touched my life in a very really and posative way.

I say bah humbug to you young man because you just can't see the quality of life before you. You'll spend your life looking backwards hankering after a time that can never be again when you should embrace life and make the very best of it.

Yesterday I buried my mam and if there is one thing she taught me it was to honour the past but leave it where it is, because its gone and we must live instead in the here and now. Only by doing this will we ever be truely authentic and only through authentisity can we hope to make the best of our lives.





Right umm I think you're missing a point here. Without my computer I couldn't keep up with my big brother in Salt Lake and my little brother in Sydney and my other little brother in Ireland, and my fabulous girlfriend in Ohio and all the other truely wonderfull people who have touched my life in a very really and posative way.


I think you are missing the point thinking that I am against technology not acknowledging the benefits of it.





I say bah humbug to you young man because you just can't see the quality of life before you. You'll spend your life looking backwards hankering after a time that can never be again when you should embrace life and make the very best of it.


False assumption.


I embrace the current world that I live in the best I can like any other human being and I look into the past of history to learn of great men and peoples to further my own resolve in the present.





Yesterday I buried my mam and if there is one thing she taught me it was to honour the past but leave it where it is, because its gone and we must live instead in the here and now. Only by doing this will we ever be truely authentic and only through authentisity can we hope to make the best of our lives


I am sorry that you lost your mother and I hope her travel to the spirit world is peaceful without any pain.

I do think you however misunderstand me and my intentions altogether.

[Grimr]

Britain, USSR, USA, and a few other countries



See above, but include Germany, Italy, and few others



Britain... with the introduction of merchant capitalism and mercantilism between the 16th and 18th century.



That depends on what form of media system you're referring to. Tim Berners-Lee pioneered the use of hypertext and created the first web browser, he was British.

With Television it was equal parts The US and the UK... the first modern level of definition (240+ lines) were made in England in 1936.

Wait! I forgot, you live in a fairly inwardly centered culture! Of cause you wouldn't know any of this!



Now? US, UK, Japan, Euro, and soon China and India.



Not the only world market



Not really.



Britian you twit! We use the Windser government, very different from the USA. Our economics are based on capitilism, with three real keys. Argriculture, Resources, and tourism.



Nope, the roman’s developed from two cultures and then a great deal more... look into it.



But it also stunts it's growth.



Not entirely.



And we do... or would you like to revert back to killing anyone different?




What?




Like whom?




actually it doesn't, it creates an overall blanket culture to which one can retain one's original culture within.




Sure it does



And a Monocultural nation isn't a worse form of control?




Thrive isn't really correct, China has undergone some very dramatic changes, largely because that two thousand year culture almost spelled their destruction.



Which is just silly.



Ummmm what? You have a vivid imagination, name one instance where this takes place.



How so?



I really think you're confusing economics with cultural identity.

Therefore multiculturalism only supports assimilation of all cultures dropping the barrier of celebrated and respect differences.



Yes ph34r teh capitalistic dogs!


You know, I bet you think the lundar landing was a hoax too.



Ok, name me one pure Monoculturalist nation that isn't tyrannical.






How are you justified? I can't stress how wrong you are





Britain, USSR, USA, and a few other countries

Who had the most influence?





See above, but include Germany, Italy, and few others

Who had the longest railway encompassing many miles with trains?

I am surprised you did not mention America.




Britain... with the introduction of merchant capitalism and mercantilism between the 16th and 18th century.

Perhaps , but who took those concepts and mastered them compared to most nations?




That depends on what form of media system you're referring to. Tim Berners-Lee pioneered the use of hypertext and created the first web browser, he was British.

With Television it was equal parts The US and the UK... the first modern level of definition (240+ lines) were made in England in 1936.

Wait! I forgot, you live in a fairly inwardly centered culture! Of cause you wouldn't know any of this!


Of course those that lead global politics lead the media institutions.

America is one such country.

Your last post filled with sarcasm.

Do you know not how to be sarcastic?





Now? US, UK, Japan, Euro, and soon China and India.

Who does in Western Civilization?

For instance Japan,China and India are Asian civilizations.




Not the only world market

Right.

It does however dominate Western Civilization.



Not really.


I knew you would say somthing like that.





Britian you twit! We use the Windser government, very different from the USA. Our economics are based on capitilism, with three real keys. Argriculture, Resources, and tourism.

Fair enough.

Don't call me a twit.

I am getting really tired of your insults and my patience is running out.





Nope, the roman’s developed from two cultures and then a great deal more... look into it.

Could you elaborate?






But it also stunts it's growth.

How?




Not entirely.

How so?




And we do... or would you like to revert back to killing anyone different?

Do we?


Then why is there the assimilation thinking of the melting pot?

Assimilation and celebrated cultural distinction don't go well with each other.




What?

Monoculturalism in a modern sense like China or other similiar countries are just doing the natural inclination of man like it was since the beginning of all civilization.




Like whom?

Are you trying to tell me you are discussing monoculturalism at great length and yet you can not think of one?


If I am misunderstanding you then please just tell me.




actually it doesn't, it creates an overall blanket culture to which one can retain one's original culture within.

In my opinion it creates a blanket of assimilation.

This blanket also cuts off any cultural independence or cultural control of one's own cultural enviroment.



Sure it does

How?




And a Monocultural nation isn't a worse form of control?

Explain.





Thrive isn't really correct, China has undergone some very dramatic changes, largely because that two thousand year culture almost spelled their destruction.

How so?

Are you saying any culture that exists by itself with peaceful dialogue with other nations and yet existing by itself is doomed to failure?






Which is just silly.


Is it?




Ummmm what? You have a vivid imagination, name one instance where this takes place.


America.




How so?

Because when the people acknowledge their cultural differences in culture the multicultural government always sees it as a cultural construct that has no difference or meaning.

They are forced to because every different culture is just the proletariat global worker who has no meaning but to serve the system on a pure basis of economicism.






I really think you're confusing economics with cultural identity.

One can not deny how economical circumstances with the stance of government and it's effects on society as a whole.

To do so is a grave error.




Yes ph34r teh capitalistic dogs!

Har Har!





You know, I bet you think the lundar landing was a hoax too.

More insults.




Ok, name me one pure Monoculturalist nation that isn't tyrannical.


India.



How are you justified? I can't stress how wrong you are

Tell me how I am wrong.

[Infinite Grey]

I do think you however misunderstand me and my intentions altogether.

Perhaps you should express your intentions then... so far I've only seen you really mention how much you hate capitalism, globalization, and multiculturalism... and drawing up some very far fetched connections between them without really providing any proof.

How about you provide a comparison of statistics regarding things like the standards of living in both monoculturall and multicultural nations, and capitalist and communist nations. Then compare them with theorized standards of ancient living. Include, things like individuals rights, murder ratios, distances of power, hygiene, racial, cultural and religious prejudice, economics, ration of infantile deaths and life spans. While you're at it, you might want to look into examples of monocultural nations and how long they've lasted in these instances.

These are things you should be looking at if you're going to continue making these claims... also a little research into modern history that doesn't exclusively list the US achievements may be beneficial too

[Tarbh Nathroch]

Fast food that stays open till 1am!!! What would we do without it!!!:fpraise:
Not just that how about not having to kill and clean yer own food.

[Infinite Grey]

Perhaps , but who took those concepts and mastered them compared to most nations?



Most nations yes. I'm not denying that the USA is a superpower and has done very well using politics and economics. You're original post that sparked me to respond with those examples was to illustrate that you're indication that Western Civilization is based on the US culture was a fallacy. Essentially granting the US more credit than it is due, a common trait of the US culture actually... but that's a topic for another thread. :lol:





Fair enough.

Don't call me a twit.

I am getting really tired of your insults and my patience is running out


Oh get over it you big girl... it's a cultural thing. I'm only demonstrating what would be a common occurrence if we all reverted to inward orientated monoculturalism. The Australia culture is not very politically correct, and often very sarcastic, even on the political level insults are fairly common place. But then again, we are very multicultural in attitudes and will often do a our best to be mindful of other cultures... But you don't like that, so I've been giving you a taste of home. I apologize if I've offended you.

[Deranged Hermit]

:fpeek:

:bubbles: :flowers: _catroll_ :fpeace:

:excuseme:

[Grimr]

Perhaps you should express your intentions then... so far I've only seen you really mention how much you hate capitalism, globalization, and multiculturalism... and drawing up some very far fetched connections between them without really providing any proof.

How about you provide a comparison of statistics regarding things like the standards of living in both monoculturall and multicultural nations, and capitalist and communist nations. Then compare them with theorized standards of ancient living. Include, things like individuals rights, murder ratios, distances of power, hygiene, racial, cultural and religious prejudice, economics, ration of infantile deaths and life spans. While you're at it, you might want to look into examples of monocultural nations and how long they've lasted in these instances.

These are things you should be looking at if you're going to continue making these claims... also a little research into modern history that doesn't exclusively list the US achievements may be beneficial too





Perhaps you should express your intentions then... so far I've only seen you really mention how much you hate capitalism, globalization, and multiculturalism... and drawing up some very far fetched connections between them without really providing any proof.


All we are doing is having a dialogue.

Capitalism,Multiculturalism and Globalization effect whole civilizations.

I am surprised you can not see how they correlate between each other.

Also you really have no proof of how a monoculturalist society is doomed to failure either.......





How about you provide a comparison of statistics regarding things like the standards of living in both monoculturall and multicultural nations, and capitalist and communist nations. Then compare them with theorized standards of ancient living. Include, things like individuals rights, murder ratios, distances of power, hygiene, racial, cultural and religious prejudice, economics, ration of infantile deaths and life spans. While you're at it, you might want to look into examples of monocultural nations and how long they've lasted in these instances.


I could get some statistics , but those things do take time.

Also you fail to notice that multiculturalism is fairly young at it's stage compared to monocultural systems that have existed since time primordial.




Then compare them with theorized standards of ancient living. Include, things like individuals rights, murder ratios, distances of power, hygiene, racial, cultural and religious prejudice, economics, ration of infantile deaths and life spans. While you're at it, you might want to look into examples of monocultural nations and how long they've lasted in these instances.

Is it me or are you comparing monoculturalism to racial and religous prejudice?

I would like to have your opinion on that.




These are things you should be looking at if you're going to continue making these claims... also a little research into modern history that doesn't exclusively list the US achievements may be beneficial too


Alright.


You are making claims too though. I am not the only one.

As for my exclusive list of American achievements I understand what you mean and perhaps I have overlooked it.

I was merely trying to show how alot of modern systems whether it be political,economical,technological or social have a correlation with American systems since the advent of America dominating world politics.

[Tadrith]

Also you really have no proof of how a monoculturalist society is doomed to failure either.......

Actually, he listed a few examples. You might have missed them.


Who had the most influence?
The Uck



Quote:
Nope, the roman’s developed from two cultures and then a great deal more... look into it.


Could you elaborate?
The Trojans, the Celts, the Greeks, etc...


Quote:
But it also stunts it's growth.


How?
You might be surprised at how much a country's economic ability is related to imports and exports. If you are monocultural, then you cannot deal with other countries (in which case these relations introduce another culture into yours, and hence you are no longer "monocultural").


Then why is there the assimilation thinking of the melting pot?

Assimilation and celebrated cultural distinction don't go well with each other.

There are many ways of introducing multiple cultures into a country. Assimilation is one method, used rather unsuccessfully. There is also something known as a "mosaic".


Quote:
Ok, name me one pure Monoculturalist nation that isn't tyrannical.



India.

Ah, must have missed the entire Islam/Hindu war that's been going on for a few centuries as well as the influence of Pakistan, Tibet, and China. You must also be a little off the loop of the corruption in the Indian government.


I was merely trying to show how alot of modern systems whether it be political,economical,technological or social have a correlation with American systems since the advent of America dominating world politics.

Most modern political systems are based on the British. Examples are Canada, Australia, New-Zealand, India, the list goes on.
America doesn't really dominate the world of politics, they just dominate the world with weapons. Politics, as I see it, infer some form of controlling power; I refer you to the negotiations with the Ayatollah and Iran as an example of how the U.S. lacks control. The U.S. has a 'smoke and mirrors' economy. All it takes is a few key countries to apply sanctions to the U.S., and it is only a short matter of time before the U.S. crumbles.
Modern technology is actually directly related to Mr. James Watts, the british fella who, in 1776 (?), invented the steam engine. From there on out, pretty much all countries contributed to technology.
And, as far as I know, America has not really provided anything of worth in terms of social systems. But if you provide an example, I may change my mind.

Finally, Dracon, get some stats. It wont take very long and it will be very educating for everyone.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Lets hope a major worldwide catastrophe doesn't happen anytime soon.

Like the earth's magnetic field doing a flip-flop all of a sudden.
Or a super massive sunspot frying this countries electrical grid system.
Or Bush's facial ticks get worse,and he decides to "Push The Button".

If you thought what went down during Katrina was bad,you ain't seen nothin yet.

I hope your ready for what's to come,becuase I already had my opurtunity to test and hone my survival skills this past Sept.

[Aelfoak]

I'm seriously thinking about booking myself into one of Ray Mear's survival schools!


Lets hope a major worldwide catastrophe doesn't happen anytime soon.

Like the earth's magnetic field doing a flip-flop all of a sudden.
Or a super massive sunspot frying this countries electrical grid system.
Or Bush's facial ticks get worse,and he decides to "Push The Button".

If you thought what went down during Katrina was bad,you ain't seen nothin yet.

I hope your ready for what's to come,becuase I already had my opurtunity to test and hone my survival skills this past Sept.

[Vincent Verthaine]

I'm seriously thinking about booking myself into one of Ray Mear's survival schools!
I'd suggest joining the army,but I really wouldn't advise it.I served when Reagan first got into office,and say what you will about the guy,but at least he wasn't stupid enough to get us into a war we can't get out off.

Now personally,I absolutely enjoy modern civilization.It's too bad that billions of people don'y get to enjoy it like we do.
But that's ok.It seems we are intent on bringing modern civilization to everybody,whether they want it or not.We will deliver to them the wonders of our modern civilization,even if we have to blow them back to the stone age to do it.
Now I have no problems with modern civilization helping out the "less modern civilizations".

But can't we do it without resorting to things like...

"Here are modern agricultural tools and techniques,heres how you use them.Oh,and by the way,oh,all the food you grow now is considered the property of Monsanto".

{Pretty soon,all the world will have the benefit of living longer,and being healthier.
That is, if they don't die from a heart attack from eating too much junkfood and watching tv all day.But hey,that's just my opinion,right.}
or

"Ohhh,are you people starving,here,let us bring you some food.But first,before we feed you,let me explain to you why your God,your beliefs,your way of life sucks,and why you should worship Jebus."
{And personally,in my humble opinion,this is not doing a good deed.
A good deed has no ultier motives.
Using starvation as an excuse to "save more souls"is not a good deed.
You know what a good deed would be.

Feed those people.
Shut the "f" up.
Go home.
But that's just my opinion.So don't get ya keyboards all in a uproar}

or

"It's just more cost effective to ship these jobs overseas,pay the poor peasents a buck fiddy a day (which you are correct,it is probably better then what they were making before),and pass the savings on to the consumer".

{Hows this for cost effective,Corporate America CEO's,before you start giving the job of some working class American joe away to some guy in India who needed a class on how to speak english without a calcutta accent,how about you guys start taking a cut from your own paychecks for a change.
How about not having a million dollar parachute when you miss manage the company so bad they fired your ass.

How about you three piece suit wearing parasites take a second job to make the payments on your new yacht.You lazy basards.
Downside your already obscenely fat wallets first,before you talk about down sizing the workforce and shipping them to Pago Pago.But that's just my opinion.Don't want the neo con pagans and the randites beating me up after class}



Pretty soon everyone on this planet will benefit from modern civilization.
And like all other "modern civilizations" in the past some people will benefit from it waaaaay more than others.
What?!? You thought everyone will share in the bounty equally?
What are you,a communist?

Soon everyone will be just like us.Science will make this world into a magical candyland utopia,and everyone will hold hands and sing Kumbayya.
We don't even have to do a thing ourselves.Science will take care of everything.Why bother modifying our own behavior to prevent problems from happening,when we can have science do it for us.

So keep buying those gas guzzling SUV's.Science will fix the planet.


Now look,for the record.and i repeat.I love living in a modern society.I love modern conviences.I love clean water and flushing toilets.But I've always been the type of guy who sees the good and bad in anything.
I don't need to talk about the good,because the good speaks for itself.
I have no problem pointing at the bad, though, and saying "that really needs to be fixed".Rather then just ignore it,forget about it,and hope it just goes away.Like a lot of people in this country.
But that's just my opinions of course.
We're still allowed to have those in this country,don't we?

[Deranged Hermit]

I'd suggest joining the army,but I really wouldn't advise it.I served when Reagan first got into office,and say what you will about the guy,but at least he wasn't stupid enough to get us into a war we can't get out off.

Now personally,I absolutely enjoy modern civilization.It's too bad that billions of people don'y get to enjoy it like we do.
But that's ok.It seems we are intent on bringing modern civilization to everybody,whether they want it or not.We will deliver to them the wonders of our modern civilization,even if we have to blow them back to the stone age to do it.
Now I have no problems with modern civilization helping out the "less modern civilizations".

But can't we do it without resorting to things like...

"Here are modern agricultural tools and techniques,heres how you use them.Oh,and by the way,oh,all the food you grow now is considered the property of Monsanto".

{Pretty soon,all the world will have the benefit of living longer,and being healthier.
That is, if they don't die from a heart attack from eating too much junkfood and watching tv all day.But hey,that's just my opinion,right.}
or

"Ohhh,are you people starving,here,let us bring you some food.But first,before we feed you,let me explain to you why your God,your beliefs,your way of life sucks,and why you should worship Jebus."
{And personally,in my humble opinion,this is not doing a good deed.
A good deed has no ultier motives.
Using starvation as an excuse to "save more souls"is not a good deed.
You know what a good deed would be.

Feed those people.
Shut the "f" up.
Go home.
But that's just my opinion.So don't get ya keyboards all in a uproar}

or

"It's just more cost effective to ship these jobs overseas,pay the poor peasents a buck fiddy a day (which you are correct,it is probably better then what they were making before),and pass the savings on to the consumer".

{Hows this for cost effective,Corporate America CEO's,before you start giving the job of some working class American joe away to some guy in India who needed a class on how to speak english without a calcutta accent,how about you guys start taking a cut from your own paychecks for a change.
How about not having a million dollar parachute when you miss manage the company so bad they fired your ass.

How about you three piece suit wearing parasites take a second job to make the payments on your new yacht.You lazy basards.
Downside your already obscenely fat wallets first,before you talk about down sizing the workforce and shipping them to Pago Pago.But that's just my opinion.Don't want the neo con pagans and the randites beating me up after class}



Pretty soon everyone on this planet will benefit from modern civilization.
And like all other "modern civilizations" in the past some people will benefit from it waaaaay more than others.
What?!? You thought everyone will share in the bounty equally?
What are you,a communist?

Soon everyone will be just like us.Science will make this world into a magical candyland utopia,and everyone will hold hands and sing Kumbayya.
We don't even have to do a thing ourselves.Science will take care of everything.Why bother modifying our own behavior to prevent problems from happening,when we can have science do it for us.

So keep buying those gas guzzling SUV's.Science will fix the planet.


Now look,for the record.and i repeat.I love living in a modern society.I love modern conviences.I love clean water and flushing toilets.But I've always been the type of guy who sees the good and bad in anything.
I don't need to talk about the good,because the good speaks for itself.
I have no problem pointing at the bad, though, and saying "that really needs to be fixed".Rather then just ignore it,forget about it,and hope it just goes away.Like a lot of people in this country.
But that's just my opinions of course.
We're still allowed to have those in this country,don't we?

:fpraise:

I agree, agree, and agree some more. And you said it so much better than I ever could have.

[Grimr]

Actually, he listed a few examples. You might have missed them.


The Uck



The Trojans, the Celts, the Greeks, etc...


You might be surprised at how much a country's economic ability is related to imports and exports. If you are monocultural, then you cannot deal with other countries (in which case these relations introduce another culture into yours, and hence you are no longer "monocultural").


There are many ways of introducing multiple cultures into a country. Assimilation is one method, used rather unsuccessfully. There is also something known as a "mosaic".



Ah, must have missed the entire Islam/Hindu war that's been going on for a few centuries as well as the influence of Pakistan, Tibet, and China. You must also be a little off the loop of the corruption in the Indian government.



Most modern political systems are based on the British. Examples are Canada, Australia, New-Zealand, India, the list goes on.
America doesn't really dominate the world of politics, they just dominate the world with weapons. Politics, as I see it, infer some form of controlling power; I refer you to the negotiations with the Ayatollah and Iran as an example of how the U.S. lacks control. The U.S. has a 'smoke and mirrors' economy. All it takes is a few key countries to apply sanctions to the U.S., and it is only a short matter of time before the U.S. crumbles.
Modern technology is actually directly related to Mr. James Watts, the british fella who, in 1776 (?), invented the steam engine. From there on out, pretty much all countries contributed to technology.
And, as far as I know, America has not really provided anything of worth in terms of social systems. But if you provide an example, I may change my mind.

Finally, Dracon, get some stats. It wont take very long and it will be very educating for everyone.




The Trojans, the Celts, the Greeks, etc...

They were all Indo-Europeans though thus having identical characteristics of culture..........


That is like saying the Han empire affected the Zhao.

That comes to no surprise because both were ancient Chinese cultures.




You might be surprised at how much a country's economic ability is related to imports and exports. If you are monocultural, then you cannot deal with other countries (in which case these relations introduce another culture into yours, and hence you are no longer "monocultural").

Then I would say modern economical thinking and Capitalism is flawed.

I would also say that with the regards of todays economical practices that it only leads in the assimilation of us all leading into Globalism.

Globalism will not be a peaceful utopian transition either.

It will be violent and brutal.

I will not fall for any wild fantasies of the subject.




There are many ways of introducing multiple cultures into a country. Assimilation is one method, used rather unsuccessfully. There is also something known as a "mosaic".

Assimilation seems to be very much working here in the United States.

If this cultural mosaic is what you describe then you would know somthing about paintings.

As they get older the paint drys out and the distinctions of the painting becomes blurred and often asorbs into itself.

If you were to stop that from happening you would need a very good artist restorer.

So the question is , " How would you stop the assimilation or absorption overtime."?





Ah, must have missed the entire Islam/Hindu war that's been going on for a few centuries as well as the influence of Pakistan, Tibet, and China. You must also be a little off the loop of the corruption in the Indian government.



Perhaps they are at a disadvantage because of the Western civilization and it's Globalization of the world.

Perhaps Western civilization and it's Globalization makes it hard for a monocultural culture to excede that of a multicultural state like that of the United States.

You will try to point a positive spin on it but I can name many negative ramifications as well.





Most modern political systems are based on the British. Examples are Canada, Australia, New-Zealand, India, the list goes on.
America doesn't really dominate the world of politics, they just dominate the world with weapons. Politics, as I see it, infer some form of controlling power; I refer you to the negotiations with the Ayatollah and Iran as an example of how the U.S. lacks control. The U.S. has a 'smoke and mirrors' economy. All it takes is a few key countries to apply sanctions to the U.S., and it is only a short matter of time before the U.S. crumbles.
Modern technology is actually directly related to Mr. James Watts, the british fella who, in 1776 (?), invented the steam engine. From there on out, pretty much all countries contributed to technology.
And, as far as I know, America has not really provided anything of worth in terms of social systems. But if you provide an example, I may change my mind.



Fine maybe I was wrong of American dominance in the world.

I can admit being wrong.





Finally, Dracon, get some stats. It wont take very long and it will be very educating for everyone


You mean the low birthrates in Europe,America,and every other Western Civilization?

I will.

It is going to take me some time to track it all down though.

[Infinite Grey]

They were all Indo-Europeans though thus having identical characteristics of culture..........


That is like saying the Han empire affected the Zhao.

That comes to no surprise because both were ancient Chinese cultures.

So you're being selective? You're only counting radically different cultures or rational cultures when you talk about assimilation?




Then I would say modern economical thinking and Capitalism is flawed.

I would also say that with the regards of today’s economical practices that it only leads in the assimilation of us all leading into Globalism.

I'm truly beginning to believe that you really do not understand Capitalism and Globalism

"cap·i·tal·ism (kăp'ĭ-tl-ĭz'əm)
n.

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market."


It is a system, in theory, to which an individual or a group of individuals can accumulate resources and propriety, thus being able to change an individuals standard of living. This pushes the power distance or caste system in abolition, as anyone can rise in social standing.


So in truth, your "hatred" is misplaced. A common mistake found in people whom haven't studied cultural psychology. The power distances that appear within a Capitalist nations are largely a result of the culture trends, Individualist attitudes, Time Orientations, Low contexts, and to a lesser degree cultural gender. A capitalist nation with Collectivist attitudes will generally see very little in the an extended Power Distance, provided they do not have a traditional Power Distance system in place (and most likely emphasizing a Femininity Cultural Gender). But a capitalist nation with the original list of cultural attitudes would have a greater Power Distance, due to the emphasis towards individual achievement.





Globalism will not be a peaceful utopian transition either.

It will be violent and brutal.

I will not fall for any wild fantasies of the subject.

Neither were the old cultures the utopia that you imply, they were far more violent than today's cultures.






Assimilation seems to be very much working here in the United States.

If this cultural mosaic is what you describe then you would know somthing about paintings.

As they get older the paint drys out and the distinctions of the painting becomes blurred and often asorbs into itself.

If you were to stop that from happening you would need a very good artist restorer.

1> How has cultures been assimulated? What has been lost?
2> The idea of fading paint is a bad anology as it works both ways.


So the question is , " How would you stop the assimilation or absorption overtime."?

Can you prove that it is indeed happening?

I'll answer the rest soon

[Grimr]

So you're being selective? You're only counting radically different cultures or rational cultures when you talk about assimilation?



I'm truly beginning to believe that you really do not understand Capitalism and Globalism

"cap·i·tal·ism (kăp'ĭ-tl-ĭz'əm)
n.

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market."


It is a system, in theory, to which an individual or a group of individuals can accumulate resources and propriety, thus being able to change an individuals standard of living. This pushes the power distance or caste system in abolition, as anyone can rise in social standing.


So in truth, your "hatred" is misplaced. A common mistake found in people whom haven't studied cultural psychology. The power distances that appear within a Capitalist nations are largely a result of the culture trends, Individualist attitudes, Time Orientations, Low contexts, and to a lesser degree cultural gender. A capitalist nation with Collectivist attitudes will generally see very little in the an extended Power Distance, provided they do not have a traditional Power Distance system in place (and most likely emphasizing a Femininity Cultural Gender). But a capitalist nation with the original list of cultural attitudes would have a greater Power Distance, due to the emphasis towards individual achievement.





Neither were the old cultures the utopia that you imply, they were far more violent than today's cultures.






1> How has cultures been assimulated? What has been lost?
2> The idea of fading paint is a bad anology as it works both ways.



Can you prove that it is indeed happening?

I'll answer the rest soon




So you're being selective? You're only counting radically different cultures or rational cultures when you talk about assimilation?


No I am saying many European cultures are very similiar with similiar backgrounds.





I'm truly beginning to believe that you really do not understand Capitalism and Globalism

"cap·i·tal·ism (kăp'ĭ-tl-ĭz'əm)
n.

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market."


It is a system, in theory, to which an individual or a group of individuals can accumulate resources and propriety, thus being able to change an individuals standard of living. This pushes the power distance or caste system in abolition, as anyone can rise in social standing.



I know what it is.

Nice try to make me look like a boob though.




So in truth, your "hatred" is misplaced. A common mistake found in people whom haven't studied cultural psychology. The power distances that appear within a Capitalist nations are largely a result of the culture trends, Individualist attitudes, Time Orientations, Low contexts, and to a lesser degree cultural gender. A capitalist nation with Collectivist attitudes will generally see very little in the an extended Power Distance, provided they do not have a traditional Power Distance system in place (and most likely emphasizing a Femininity Cultural Gender). But a capitalist nation with the original list of cultural attitudes would have a greater Power Distance, due to the emphasis towards individual achievement.

How do you know what I have studied and what I have not?

I have studied Capitalism and Globalism in books before.

I am currently studying the many Economical systems of thought and the history of them too.

You can paint the pretty face on Capitalism and Globalism all you want , but what happens off the paper and form of theory is much more interesting especially in a negative sentiment that it operates.



Neither were the old cultures the utopia that you imply, they were far more violent than today's cultures.

Never said they were perfect and yet you and others keep putting words in my mouth.





1> How has cultures been assimulated? What has been lost?



Cultural independence and freedom has been lost.

The culture loses it's own freedom to will it's own destiny.



2> The idea of fading paint is a bad anology as it works both ways.

Explain.





Can you prove that it is indeed happening?

I'll answer the rest soon


Sure can.

It will take some time for me to get all the statistics.

[Infinite Grey]

No I am saying many European cultures are very similiar with similiar backgrounds.


This may seem like a cheap tactic, but I don't mean at such... but why don't you just come out and say it... you don't seem to be so much worried about culture, as you avoid discussing what is a culture and how cultures are being effected... you seem to be focused on a> racial group's birthrate b>comparing the whole of the western world as American (and I know you've conceded this point) c> that you seem to think all the European cultures were similar (which is bullshite) and therefore isn't really subject to assimilation. You seem to be more concerned with Racial integration and assimilation, than cultural assimilation. If that is so, why don't you come out and say it?

[Tadrith]

No I am saying many European cultures are very similiar with similiar backgrounds.

Peacock got that one before I had a chance to, but there are huge and massive differences between european cultures. I'm actually starting to think that "monocultural" nations cannot exist, because there is no universal culture in a nation, even if it is "mono-racial". Then there is the issue of any inter-national relations which, in itself of a world full of international communications, relations, and travel, significantly influences the affectee's culture.

Tad

[Grimr]

This may seem like a cheap tactic, but I don't mean at such... but why don't you just come out and say it... you don't seem to be so much worried about culture, as you avoid discussing what is a culture and how cultures are being effected... you seem to be focused on a> racial group's birthrate b>comparing the whole of the western world as American (and I know you've conceded this point) c> that you seem to think all the European cultures were similar (which is bullshite) and therefore isn't really subject to assimilation. You seem to be more concerned with Racial integration and assimilation, than cultural assimilation. If that is so, why don't you come out and say it?

A very broad assumption Peacock. False might I add. Cheap too.

What lead you to this thinking?


Since we are on this line of thinking lets take it further though.

What do you think of race and the correlation it plays on culture?

I am just asking a question. I really have no definate answers.

Your assumptions sparked a interesting question.

I hope this really does not come out offensive.


Peacock got that one before I had a chance to, but there are huge and massive differences between european cultures. I'm actually starting to think that "monocultural" nations cannot exist, because there is no universal culture in a nation, even if it is "mono-racial". Then there is the issue of any inter-national relations which, in itself of a world full of international communications, relations, and travel, significantly influences the affectee's culture.

Tad

That wasn't the case in early civilizations for even though there was trade,dialogue and communication of early civilizations with foreign nations apart of their own they would always hold their own citizens regards first and foremost.


I still see nothing wrong with monoculturalism.

Also let us take Europe for instance.

In the medieval times to the early 19th century they all had similiar cultures and ways of living.

The only barriers was nationality of government and language.

The ways of living though were quite similiar.


The cultural integrities and customs were similiar in those times too.

One could also point out the similiarity of the Etruscans,Romans and Greeks.

I could even compare the Vikings with the Celts or I could take it further to compare the Romans and Celts.

[Grimr]

Also I have another question for you Peacock:

Is culture somthing you are born into?

I just thought a important question like that would help our discussion as it could help our formulations of our different opinions.

[Infinite Grey]

A very broad assumption Peacock. False might I add. Cheap too.

What lead you to this thinking?

Do you even really read other people's posts? I listed how I came to think that, here I'll do it again...
a>You have posted a concern regarding a racial group's birthrate
b>comparing the whole of the western world as American (and I know you've conceded this point)
c> that you seem to think all the European cultures were similar (which is bullshite) and therefore isn't really subject to assimilation.



Since we are on this line of thinking lets take it further though.

What do you think of race and the correlation it plays on culture?

If only culture was so simple... within any one society, even a monocultural society, there are varying levels of cultures... cultures within cultures.

Firstly, culture is not synonymous with race or nationality. However, members of a particular race or country are often taught similar beliefs, attitudes and values. But referring to "Western culture", or "European culture", or even "African American culture" in a blanket term is actually stereotyping, as within all large cultures- especially a culture based on race or nationalist- there are enormous differences. For example, take the Kansas farmer and the Wall Street executive, who may both be of German ancestry, they will have very different attitudes and beliefs, and even lifestyles. In a lot of ways the Kansas farmer will be closer in culture, or values and attitudes as that of a Chinese farmer than that of the Wall Street executive.

So this is how it works:
Global Cultures (Western Civilizations, Oriental civilization): Almost like labeling food... this is fruit, this is vegetables... doesn't have any sort of detail.

Race or Nationality culture: basically just grouping people of the same ancestry together, with no real true details regarding values or attitudes.

Social/legal culture: This is determines what is considered to be general acceptability, like wearing clothes, attitudes towards murder and such.

Regional culture: That of people with a region, like a State or territory... this covers the elements such as isolation, landscape, fertility of the land... things that will influence the cultures.

Local culture: This is local cultures, like Wall Street, rural, urban, city living. The city boy will be vastly different to the country boy in values and attitudes.

Communal culture: The culture of a group of people living in an apartment block will be different to another group of people living in another apartment block... or street.

Professional culture: People in different professions will differ in attitudes and beliefs.

Religious culture: Well, this one is a major cultural influence, as it deals directly with values and beliefs

Family culture: Each family has it's own culture, its own sets of attitude, values and beliefs

Personal culture: The individual's values, attitudes and beliefs may differ greatly from the other cultural influences

Sub-cultures: Goths, Emos, Rappers, Otherkin... life styles.

Gender cultures, Mental cultures, health cultures, internet culture, technological culture... the list goes on and on, and I haven't even expanded into things like enculturation and acculturation.

All these culture types form together to create Civilization, nationality and race really have little to do with it. It is paranoia to think Globalization will assimilate all these cultural types, it can't... there's a new culture created every day... it would be like ice-skating up hill.



I am just asking a question. I really have no definate answers.

You don't seem to have many answers at all


Your assumptions sparked a interesting question.

You're a nice one to accuse other people of assumptions.


Also I have another question for you Peacock:

Is culture somthing you are born into?

I just thought a important question like that would help our discussion as it could help our formulations of our different opinions.

Absolutely not... to which set of cultures you're born in will influence you're development yes, but essentially that's like saying "I was born in a garage, therefore I must be a car"

[Grimr]

Do you even really read other people's posts? I listed how I came to think that, here I'll do it again...
a>You have posted a concern regarding a racial group's birthrate
b>comparing the whole of the western world as American (and I know you've conceded this point)
c> that you seem to think all the European cultures were similar (which is bullshite) and therefore isn't really subject to assimilation.



If only culture was so simple... within any one society, even a monocultural society, there are varying levels of cultures... cultures within cultures.

Firstly, culture is not synonymous with race or nationality. However, members of a particular race or country are often taught similar beliefs, attitudes and values. But referring to "Western culture", or "European culture", or even "African American culture" in a blanket term is actually stereotyping, as within all large cultures- especially a culture based on race or nationalist- there are enormous differences. For example, take the Kansas farmer and the Wall Street executive, who may both be of German ancestry, they will have very different attitudes and beliefs, and even lifestyles. In a lot of ways the Kansas farmer will be closer in culture, or values and attitudes as that of a Chinese farmer than that of the Wall Street executive.

So this is how it works:
Global Cultures (Western Civilizations, Oriental civilization): Almost like labeling food... this is fruit, this is vegetables... doesn't have any sort of detail.

Race or Nationality culture: basically just grouping people of the same ancestry together, with no real true details regarding values or attitudes.

Social/legal culture: This is determines what is considered to be general acceptability, like wearing clothes, attitudes towards murder and such.

Regional culture: That of people with a region, like a State or territory... this covers the elements such as isolation, landscape, fertility of the land... things that will influence the cultures.

Local culture: This is local cultures, like Wall Street, rural, urban, city living. The city boy will be vastly different to the country boy in values and attitudes.

Communal culture: The culture of a group of people living in an apartment block will be different to another group of people living in another apartment block... or street.

Professional culture: People in different professions will differ in attitudes and beliefs.

Religious culture: Well, this one is a major cultural influence, as it deals directly with values and beliefs

Family culture: Each family has it's own culture, its own sets of attitude, values and beliefs

Personal culture: The individual's values, attitudes and beliefs may differ greatly from the other cultural influences

Sub-cultures: Goths, Emos, Rappers, Otherkin... life styles.

Gender cultures, Mental cultures, health cultures, internet culture, technological culture... the list goes on and on, and I haven't even expanded into things like enculturation and acculturation.

All these culture types form together to create Civilization, nationality and race really have little to do with it. It is paranoia to think Globalization will assimilate all these cultural types, it can't... there's a new culture created every day... it would be like ice-skating up hill.



You don't seem to have many answers at all



You're a nice one to accuse other people of assumptions.



Absolutely not... to which set of cultures you're born in will influence you're development yes, but essentially that's like saying "I was born in a garage, therefore I must be a car"





Absolutely not... to which set of cultures you're born in will influence you're development yes, but essentially that's like saying "I was born in a garage, therefore I must be a car"


A car is a machine. We are talking about human beings.

Can we please stay on topic.

So are you denying the effects of culture on any given person when they are born into one?






Do you even really read other people's posts?


All the time actually.





a>You have posted a concern regarding a racial group's birthrate


Yes because the Europeans are indigenous to Europe and they do have certain say in matters of civilizations that were created and started by Europeans.

Also I am considered as a European so I talk out of the view of my own culture.

I do talk of other cultures a bit too because if other cultures are allowed to have independence then by the rules of equality so is mine.

I was not trying to discuss racial matters. I was speaking of culture.


You are the one that made any first reference of race in this thread.





b>comparing the whole of the western world as American (and I know you've conceded this point)


I was talking about American politics and it's dominion.

That was it.

Can you explain your point here?




c> that you seem to think all the European cultures were similar (which is bullshite) and therefore isn't really subject to assimilation.


They were and still are similiar. Disprove me.

Also many European cultures came from one single migration ( IndoEuropeans.) that evolved into different sets overtime.





Firstly, culture is not synonymous with race or nationality.


Alright.

I had to ask.

You were technically the first one to mention it and I just wanted to briefly get a overview of your beliefs on that particular subject.




Firstly, culture is not synonymous with race or nationality. However, members of a particular race or country are often taught similar beliefs, attitudes and values. But referring to "Western culture", or "European culture", or even "African American culture" in a blanket term is actually stereotyping, as within all large cultures- especially a culture based on race or nationalist- there are enormous differences. For example, take the Kansas farmer and the Wall Street executive, who may both be of German ancestry, they will have very different attitudes and beliefs, and even lifestyles. In a lot of ways the Kansas farmer will be closer in culture, or values and attitudes as that of a Chinese farmer than that of the Wall Street executive.

Alright following you so far.





So this is how it works:
Global Cultures (Western Civilizations, Oriental civilization): Almost like labeling food... this is fruit, this is vegetables... doesn't have any sort of detail.

Race or Nationality culture: basically just grouping people of the same ancestry together, with no real true details regarding values or attitudes.



Do you believe it all to be a construct with no real value?





Social/legal culture: This is determines what is considered to be general acceptability, like wearing clothes, attitudes towards murder and such.

Regional culture: That of people with a region, like a State or territory... this covers the elements such as isolation, landscape, fertility of the land... things that will influence the cultures.

Local culture: This is local cultures, like Wall Street, rural, urban, city living. The city boy will be vastly different to the country boy in values and attitudes.

Communal culture: The culture of a group of people living in an apartment block will be different to another group of people living in another apartment block... or street.



Following you.





Professional culture: People in different professions will differ in attitudes and beliefs.

Religious culture: Well, this one is a major cultural influence, as it deals directly with values and beliefs

Family culture: Each family has it's own culture, its own sets of attitude, values and beliefs

Personal culture: The individual's values, attitudes and beliefs may differ greatly from the other cultural influences

Sub-cultures: Goths, Emos, Rappers, Otherkin... life styles.

Gender cultures, Mental cultures, health cultures, internet culture, technological culture... the list goes on and on, and I haven't even expanded into things like enculturation and acculturation.



Following you.




All these culture types form together to create Civilization, nationality and race really have little to do with it. It is paranoia to think Globalization will assimilate all these cultural types, it can't... there's a new culture created every day... it would be like ice-skating up hill.

I am talking about the cultures that have existed since the beginning of civilization.

I believe in the preservation of these cultures because I view that they have a right to exist.

[Infinite Grey]

A car is a machine. We are talking about human beings.

Can we please stay on topic.

So are you denying the effects of culture on any given person when they are born into one?




I see no point in continuing this conversation with you if can not grasp such an elementary concept as "Just because I was born garage, doesn't mean I'm a car"... or "I was born in garage therefore I'm a car"... they're metaphors, and not to be taken literal... on the other hand, you've displayed a classic example of Low Context behaviour.

In either case, it indicates you'll lack the ability to comprehend slightly more complex concepts like Cultural Psychology and Interaction... you've already indicated that you confuse economics as culture, rather than a culture influence.

In short, what is the point in trying to explain things to you?

[Grimr]

I see no point in continuing this conversation with you if can not grasp such an elementary concept as "Just because I was born garage, doesn't mean I'm a car"... or "I was born in garage therefore I'm a car"... they're metaphors, and not to be taken literal... on the other hand, you've displayed a classic example of Low Context behaviour.

In either case, it indicates you'll lack the ability to comprehend slightly more complex concepts like Cultural Psychology and Interaction... you've already indicated that you confuse economics as culture, rather than a culture influence.

In short, what is the point in trying to explain things to you?





I see no point in continuing this conversation with you if can not grasp such an elementary concept as "Just because I was born garage, doesn't mean I'm a car"... or "I was born in garage therefore I'm a car"... they're metaphors, and not to be taken literal... on the other hand, you've displayed a classic example of Low Context behaviour.


If it is a metaphor then explain it.

Sorry I am more better in conversation if things are talked about directly.

Call it a individual thing I guess.

Also I get tired of you talking to me like your someone higher then me with subtle insults like the likes of Low Context Behaviour.

Grow some maturity.




In either case, it indicates you'll lack the ability to comprehend slightly more complex concepts like Cultural Psychology and Interaction... you've already indicated that you confuse economics as culture, rather than a culture influence.


I was merely stating that economics affect any given culture that uses them by themselves or the interaction of trade with others.

I think you lack the ability of understanding me and I wish we could communicate better in our conversations.





In short, what is the point in trying to explain things to you?


We are having a conversation.

I suppose the benificial point of it is our dialogue of our views by exchange.

If you absolutely can't stand me then you can run if you like.

[Infinite Grey]

If it is a metaphor then explain it.

Sorry I am more better in conversation if things are talked about directly.

Call it a individual thing I guess.

Also I get tired of you talking to me like your someone higher then me with subtle insults like the likes of Low Context Behaviour.

Grow some maturity.


lmao I don't need to insult you! You're doing a good job of it yourself. Low Context Behaviour is not an insult, I've described it an earlier post... High context and Low context behaviour... to which you have already unwittingly admitted to "Sorry I am more better in conversation if things are talked about directly." That is Low Context bevahiour... which incidentally happens on a cultural level. It's like you taking offense if I accused you of having binocular vision! :lol:




I was merely stating that economics affect any given culture that uses them by themselves or the interaction of trade with others.


To a degree yes, economics do indeed influence culture, but economics do NOT constitute a culture.



I think you lack the ability of understanding me and I wish we could communicate better in our conversations.

The lack of understanding seems to be slanted in your direction... just look at the beginning of this post.





We are having a conversation.

I suppose the beneficial point of it is our dialogue of our views by exchange.

If you absolutely can't stand me then you can run if you like.

Dude, if I leave the conversation it isn't because I'm "running", but because I choose not to waste me time anymore... IF there was an actual exchange of ideas and beliefs, then there would be a mutual benefit... but that does not seem to be happening due to a series of misconception regarding the attention to details, and the basic underlining concepts populating the conversation topic.

[plumedsnake]

I'm loving this thread although I haven't read all of it. I've only just discovered it. I hope I don't repeat what someone's already said, but I just want to add tuppence:

What do we think of the definition of Culture as a code of Values? i.e every culture has what it extolls and what it looks down on. This code will determine what the members of the culture aspire too, the way they dress and the choices they make.

There is a difference between culture and society. Within a society there can be many different cultures and sub cultures.

Cultures are necessarily always in conflict with each other because different value codes means that what one calls good the other calls evil and if pro active, every culture seeks to increase their good and destroy their evil.

In fact each individual to the extent that he is unique with his own sense of what he likes and wants is a culture to himself. Therefore human interaction is riddled with conflict.

Culture is dynamic. The Value system is always changing. There are influences both within and without. Meeting other cultures causes reassessment of one's values. Each new generation will reassess the culture they belong to. Culture is made up of traditions and innovations. a culture that isn't flexible and changing is a dead culture and ceases to be a viable way of life.

And,:
Capitalism has never really been implimented in the world. A free market suggests free movement of all the factors of production and allowing market forces to fix prices.

Labour can not move freely, due to immigration laws.

prices are often fixed regardless of market forces. e.g when oil prices go up due to gulf wars etc and western governments put pressure on weak oil producing countries to bring the price of oil down. How can the price of oil be going down when there's conflict in the gulf. That ain't free market forces. That's do what we say or we kick your ass forces.

Ultimately, power flows through the barrel of a gun. is it coincidence that the highest societies at any time have also been those with the best arms.

In a free market global system there would be any such thing as protectionism and tariffs and subsidies for home industries. everybody in the world would be allowed to compete on an equal basis. As it stands, europe and american governments give loads of money to certain industries such as agriculture so that their agricultural products become cheaper than those in other countries. They get the IMF and World Bank to impose conditions on third world countries so that they can't help their ailing industries, telling them to trust market forces, subsequently Third world industries fail and they are forced to go to the west in order to buy things as basic as food. If American beef costs less than home beef, you'll buy the american beef and the HOme Farmer losses out and eventually goes out of business.

Free Market Capitalism is proselytised for the Third world but the WEstern governments don't implement it on themselves.

Ultimately it is human nature to protect your own ass and all the talk of Capitalist Free marketism is just lip service. As long as it profits you capitalism is good, but when it gets dangerous protectionism is the order of the day. Those governments that swallow global markets rhetoric lock stock and barrel are just plain stupid.

The head of every nation in the world has got to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. It is impossible to rule a country otherwise. The extent to which he runs the arms forces (not just nominally) determines the extent of his power. All governments are necessarily military governments.

The militarily powerful can impose their culture on others. Once you can force others to accept your value system, you can then sell them your products and say the value of this is xyz dollars. It is more subtle than that most of the time. It is a subtle form of cultural imperialism. But when push comes to shove it stops being a subtle game; Consider the Opium Wars. britain tells China, you buy what we tell you to buy otherwise we're blowing up the living shit out of you.

Really culture being such a mercurial and dynamic thing can not be pin pointed and fixed. The minute you say this is Wall street culture, it has changed and is no longer what you said. Peacock and dracon may be fighting over sweet F A, though I see myself more in support of Peacock's angle on it.

Ultimately, the bottom line of human aspirations hasn't changed. I don't think that man is better off in the modern era than he has been at anyother era, or that the opportunities for self fulfillment are any better or worse provided.
The conundrum of human existence remains the same as it has always been and just as many humans will die in misery as have always done. Been able to get in touch with people 8,000 miles away don't mean shit in the final analysis. A faster world just means faster misery, faster gratifications, faster disaster, faster relief, faster destruction, faster creation, faster epidemics, faster travel, faster everything . . . . good or evil

[Grimr]

lmao I don't need to insult you! You're doing a good job of it yourself. Low Context Behaviour is not an insult, I've described it an earlier post... High context and Low context behaviour... to which you have already unwittingly admitted to "Sorry I am more better in conversation if things are talked about directly." That is Low Context bevahiour... which incidentally happens on a cultural level. It's like you taking offense if I accused you of having binocular vision! :lol:





To a degree yes, economics do indeed influence culture, but economics do NOT constitute a culture.



The lack of understanding seems to be slanted in your direction... just look at the beginning of this post.




Dude, if I leave the conversation it isn't because I'm "running", but because I choose not to waste me time anymore... IF there was an actual exchange of ideas and beliefs, then there would be a mutual benefit... but that does not seem to be happening due to a series of misconception regarding the attention to details, and the basic underlining concepts populating the conversation topic.

I don't care anymore Peacock.

Do what you want.

I would like to finish our conversation , but if you feel the neccesity of not doing so then that is your choice.


As for your low context high context discussion I find it insulting.

In many conversations you use your subtle sarcasm and I find it completely insulting.

In many instances I find that you cut me down.

In every conversation that I condone I almost always try to be respectful.

[Infinite Grey]

I don't care anymore Peacock.

Do what you want.

I always do what I want... the advantages of modern civilization ;)


I would like to finish our conversation , but if you feel the neccesity of not doing so then that is your choice.

If you would like to finish our conversation, then do so Intelligently. The terminology and metaphors I've expressed are not all that hard to comprehend.



As for your low context high context discussion I find it insulting.

There are no negative or positive connotations when regarding Low and High context, only truth. You're finding an axiom insulting... to which sadly, I find highly amusing.



In many conversations you use your subtle sarcasm and I find it completely insulting.


Like your need for directness (low context), sarcasm is an individual choice for me, as well as a national cultural habit... get over it.


In many instances I find that you cut me down.

I've little need to cut you down when you do it your self.


In every conversation that I condone I almost always try to be respectful.

Wasn't it you that caused Little Billy to put you an Ignore of acting disrespectfully to me? I think it was :lol: Evidence A: (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=2627020&postcount=67) Evidence B(post #38) (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=132443&page=4&highlight=Iggy) Unlucky!

[goDez]

Peacock & Dracon: please, if you guys can't go along, either stop discussing whatever you're discussing or continue in a respectful manner. That goes to both of u :|.

Don't discuss eachother, discuss the O-T issues.

[Grimr]

I always do what I want... the advantages of modern civilization ;)



If you would like to finish our conversation, then do so Intelligently. The terminology and metaphors I've expressed are not all that hard to comprehend.



There are no negative or positive connotations when regarding Low and High context, only truth. You're finding an axiom insulting... to which sadly, I find highly amusing.



Like your need for directness (low context), sarcasm is an individual choice for me, as well as a national cultural habit... get over it.



I've little need to cut you down when you do it your self.



Wasn't it you that caused Little Billy to put you an Ignore of acting disrespectfully to me? I think it was :lol: Evidence A: (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=2627020&postcount=67) Evidence B(post #38) (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=132443&page=4&highlight=Iggy) Unlucky!





Wasn't it you that caused Little Billy to put you an Ignore of acting disrespectfully to me? I think it was :lol: Evidence A: (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=2627020&postcount=67) Evidence B(post #38) (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=132443&page=4&highlight=Iggy) Unlucky!



I believed it was you who talked down to me in your post calling me a little boy.

That caused a not so generous post from me.

If you are going to take these posts out of context atleast look at the overall conversation.





If you would like to finish our conversation, then do so Intelligently. The terminology and metaphors I've expressed are not all that hard to comprehend.


I would like to finish our conversation , but if we do we should put down some ground rules before any conversation occurs.

For instance I am getting tired of your ridicule apart of the topic of conversation.

You are tired of my assumptions on many issues and I understand my folly in previous conversations.

Therefore we should lead down some ground rules that don't distort or stray away from the conversation at hand.

If you however don't feel the need to cooperate with me on any of these terms or feel the need to drop the conversation altogether again that is your prerogative.

[Grimr]

Peacock & Dracon: please, if you guys can't go along, either stop discussing whatever you're discussing or continue in a respectful manner. That goes to both of u :|.

Don't discuss eachother, discuss the O-T issues.


I understand your concern for it is my own.

[Grimr]

I'm loving this thread although I haven't read all of it. I've only just discovered it. I hope I don't repeat what someone's already said, but I just want to add tuppence:

What do we think of the definition of Culture as a code of Values? i.e every culture has what it extolls and what it looks down on. This code will determine what the members of the culture aspire too, the way they dress and the choices they make.

There is a difference between culture and society. Within a society there can be many different cultures and sub cultures.

Cultures are necessarily always in conflict with each other because different value codes means that what one calls good the other calls evil and if pro active, every culture seeks to increase their good and destroy their evil.

In fact each individual to the extent that he is unique with his own sense of what he likes and wants is a culture to himself. Therefore human interaction is riddled with conflict.

Culture is dynamic. The Value system is always changing. There are influences both within and without. Meeting other cultures causes reassessment of one's values. Each new generation will reassess the culture they belong to. Culture is made up of traditions and innovations. a culture that isn't flexible and changing is a dead culture and ceases to be a viable way of life.

And,:
Capitalism has never really been implimented in the world. A free market suggests free movement of all the factors of production and allowing market forces to fix prices.

Labour can not move freely, due to immigration laws.

prices are often fixed regardless of market forces. e.g when oil prices go up due to gulf wars etc and western governments put pressure on weak oil producing countries to bring the price of oil down. How can the price of oil be going down when there's conflict in the gulf. That ain't free market forces. That's do what we say or we kick your ass forces.

Ultimately, power flows through the barrel of a gun. is it coincidence that the highest societies at any time have also been those with the best arms.

In a free market global system there would be any such thing as protectionism and tariffs and subsidies for home industries. everybody in the world would be allowed to compete on an equal basis. As it stands, europe and american governments give loads of money to certain industries such as agriculture so that their agricultural products become cheaper than those in other countries. They get the IMF and World Bank to impose conditions on third world countries so that they can't help their ailing industries, telling them to trust market forces, subsequently Third world industries fail and they are forced to go to the west in order to buy things as basic as food. If American beef costs less than home beef, you'll buy the american beef and the HOme Farmer losses out and eventually goes out of business.

Free Market Capitalism is proselytised for the Third world but the WEstern governments don't implement it on themselves.

Ultimately it is human nature to protect your own ass and all the talk of Capitalist Free marketism is just lip service. As long as it profits you capitalism is good, but when it gets dangerous protectionism is the order of the day. Those governments that swallow global markets rhetoric lock stock and barrel are just plain stupid.

The head of every nation in the world has got to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. It is impossible to rule a country otherwise. The extent to which he runs the arms forces (not just nominally) determines the extent of his power. All governments are necessarily military governments.

The militarily powerful can impose their culture on others. Once you can force others to accept your value system, you can then sell them your products and say the value of this is xyz dollars. It is more subtle than that most of the time. It is a subtle form of cultural imperialism. But when push comes to shove it stops being a subtle game; Consider the Opium Wars. britain tells China, you buy what we tell you to buy otherwise we're blowing up the living shit out of you.

Really culture being such a mercurial and dynamic thing can not be pin pointed and fixed. The minute you say this is Wall street culture, it has changed and is no longer what you said. Peacock and dracon may be fighting over sweet F A, though I see myself more in support of Peacock's angle on it.

Ultimately, the bottom line of human aspirations hasn't changed. I don't think that man is better off in the modern era than he has been at anyother era, or that the opportunities for self fulfillment are any better or worse provided.
The conundrum of human existence remains the same as it has always been and just as many humans will die in misery as have always done. Been able to get in touch with people 8,000 miles away don't mean shit in the final analysis. A faster world just means faster misery, faster gratifications, faster disaster, faster relief, faster destruction, faster creation, faster epidemics, faster travel, faster everything . . . . good or evil





a culture that isn't flexible and changing is a dead culture and ceases to be a viable way of life.


A culture that changes too fast with no sense of adaptation over a period of time is just as dead and ceases to be as well.

[Little Billy]

A culture that changes too fast with no sense of adaptation over a period of time is just as dead and ceases to be as well.

Give me an example.

[Grimr]

Give me an example.

America.

[plumedsnake]

America.

Are there no viable ways of living in America?

[Tadrith]

America is not dead yet. Hell, since the culture is changing so fast, it might as well change in another way such that it out-survives every other nation! (Highly unlikely, since history repeats itself, the U.S. will go down flaming. Its just a matter of how many years until this happens).

You can't predict the future outcome of the states... yet.

Tad

[Grimr]

I am out of this thread.

I wouldn't want to get banned for starting trouble......... DS

My humble regards to everyone it has been nice chatting to you all here.

I hope the moderators see this as a act of peace and civility with no insult.