Are "the" Goddess and "the" God a common set of gods to worship?

[SailleSeeker]

I've been wondering lately whether I'm the only one that's like this or not. I belong to a trad that embraces the idea that each Wiccan has his or her own patron gods. We're an eclectic trad, so there's not always strict pantheon adherence - some people work with gods from many cultures, while others form an intimate relationship with the gods from one specific pantheon. However, I feel pretty much like an anomaly, at least within my group - I have tried and tried to find cultural gods that fit the way that I experience the Lord and Lady in my own life and spiritual experience, but it just doesn't feel right. Ever.

The closest thing I've come to being able to relate to my Lord and Lady as specific deities has involved either twisting, adding, or ignoring significant parts of the gods that sort of match them, and I don't think it's right to try and force my gods to be something they're not - nor is it right to try and make the gods of another culture be something that they're not. So I've just settled into relating to my gods in terms of "the" Lady and "the" Lord for me - not neccessarily for everybody, but the way that I experience them in my own life.

I don't think I'm totally alone in understanding my gods this way; I mean, most books that you read about Wicca talk of the gods in those terms. However, I also see a lot of people who expect that you'll pass the beginner stage and eventually settle into a "more mature" relationship with individual cultural deities. I have formed some relationships with cultural deities, but I know in my heart that they're something different than the God and Goddess that I experience on another level.

The only time that this really bothers me is when other Wiccans tell me that Gardner's titles of "Lady" and "Lord" were just that - titles for gods that had cultural identities underneath the title - and therefore I'm practicing something that is not-traditional-and-therefore-wrong. They may be right on their history, and that doesn't bother me a bit - but I've struggled long and hard to stand up within myself for the gods that I experience, and I don't like being told by someone that doesn't know me that my experience is "wrong".

So... that was a big ol' long post of me trying to ask if I'm the only one that sees her gods this way and deals with these issues. Am I?

[Piney Boy]

You are certainly not alone, the faces of the mystic, for me anyway, are masked in many ways. I see the male and female all around me, and sometimes overwhelmingly feel their presence, but I will not go so far as to say I comprehend their intentions or forms. Does this mean I have less of a bond with my gods because I don't comprehend, or even try to, undrestand all of their ways? Of course not. Your path is yours alone, just as your relation to the spiritual realm is.
As far as tradition and Wiccan history goes, you are part of it yourself and its 20th century rebirth. You help build the myths and practices as much as those trying to grasp oh so tightly to an imagined connection to a fabled past. The myths are all of ours and the traditions are still evolving.
The only wrong way to practice is to use your gods for acts of malice against creatures you share this planet with. The Gods should never be used to justify war, malice, envy, or there like; thats mans domain.

[gwendar]

I'm sure you aren't alone. I'm probably quite similar, even though right now I'm a non-worshipping nothing-in-particular. :p
I don't believe in anthropomorphic deities, so I'm pretty much with you on referring to the divine as The Lord/God and/or The Lady/Goddess.

[moonbride]

I totally do the same thing in referring to the divine as Goddess & God (or Lord and Lady). There hasn't come a time when I've been able to see them as anything but that as of yet and I guess for a time I was concerned on whether or not that was 'right' but I am comfortable with it now. I suppose that could change for me sometime down the road but who knows. I think as long as you are comfortable with it like this, who is to say it's wrong?

[Xirian]

I've been wondering lately whether I'm the only one that's like this or not. I belong to a trad that embraces the idea that each Wiccan has his or her own patron gods. We're an eclectic trad, so there's not always strict pantheon adherence - some people work with gods from many cultures, while others form an intimate relationship with the gods from one specific pantheon. However, I feel pretty much like an anomaly, at least within my group - I have tried and tried to find cultural gods that fit the way that I experience the Lord and Lady in my own life and spiritual experience, but it just doesn't feel right. Ever.
For this I would suggest something that you're probably already doing. Go with your instincts. You will be rewarded in the end by doing so, as far as I'm concerned.


The closest thing I've come to being able to relate to my Lord and Lady as specific deities has involved either twisting, adding, or ignoring significant parts of the gods that sort of match them, and I don't think it's right to try and force my gods to be something they're not - nor is it right to try and make the gods of another culture be something that they're not. So I've just settled into relating to my gods in terms of "the" Lady and "the" Lord for me - not neccessarily for everybody, but the way that I experience them in my own life.

I don't think I'm totally alone in understanding my gods this way; I mean, most books that you read about Wicca talk of the gods in those terms. However, I also see a lot of people who expect that you'll pass the beginner stage and eventually settle into a "more mature" relationship with individual cultural deities. I have formed some relationships with cultural deities, but I know in my heart that they're something different than the God and Goddess that I experience on another level.

I don't think you're totally alone either. In fact, there are many people on forums that view their deities very similarly to you. I don't think it has anything to do with having a "more mature" relationship with the deities. I just think our preceptions are different. What one person can relate to is much different than the way another relates.

Personally, I view each deity as separate, but I don't believe there is one right way. (I think there's a thread around here about this.) Anyway, I personally feel, what others expect, is all on them and meaningless to me. They're the ones with the expectations. And the situation has nothing to do with them, so why do they care? And even though you gave a sort of explanation about your relationship with cultural deities, I don't believe you have to give anyone an explanation. You know what you feel and gain from your way of dealing with your deities and that's all that should really matter. I'm certain your deities know your feelings and accept them, and I believe they're the only ones that should matter in this instance, IMHO.


The only time that this really bothers me is when other Wiccans tell me that Gardner's titles of "Lady" and "Lord" were just that - titles for gods that had cultural identities underneath the title - and therefore I'm practicing something that is not-traditional-and-therefore-wrong. They may be right on their history, and that doesn't bother me a bit - but I've struggled long and hard to stand up within myself for the gods that I experience, and I don't like being told by someone that doesn't know me that my experience is "wrong".
Oy!!! I just had a discussion about how pushy some wiccans can be with their ideas of how things "should" be, when it doesn't concern them in the least. I don't understand why they are so worried about titles and how one person worships or who they worship or what they call themselves or whatever. It baffles me. Anyway, don't listen to them if it doesn't suit you. That's my advice. Do what you need to grow on your personal spiritual path. You and your deities will be who you'll end up answering to, or maybe no one, who knows. But it sure won't be some group of people that want everyone to worship exactly the same way as them, whether it is in that person's best interest spiritually, or not.

Does your group have an issue with the way you see the deities? If not, then I say, you've found a group that cares more about your personal spiritual path than whether they can mold you to theirs. If not, maybe there are some things you should be thinking about.


So... that was a big ol' long post of me trying to ask if I'm the only one that sees her gods this way and deals with these issues. Am I?

As others have said in this thread, there are certainly others that think the same as you and view their deities similarly to you. You're not alone.

[AletheiaRivers]

However, I also see a lot of people who expect that you'll pass the beginner stage and eventually settle into a "more mature" relationship with individual cultural deities.
IMO, you have the "more mature" view. God/dess can't be pigeonholed, no matter how much we try.

Besides, you appear to live in (and I'm assuming born and raised in) the USA. If you are anything like most B&R Americans, you're a "mutt." :hahugh: So who exactly are your "cultural gods?"

Humanity all shares a common ancestry. Should we all attempt to find out who our shared "cultural gods" are? Perhaps who you experience, your Lord and Lady, ARE humankind's culturally/ancestrally shared gods, and perhaps YOU are the one that is experiencing the truth.


The only time that this really bothers me is when other Wiccans tell me that Gardner's titles of "Lady" and "Lord" were just that - titles for gods that had cultural identities underneath the title -
Tell them that they DO have "cultural identities underneath the title." Tell them that they belong to YOUR culture. If you are feeling particularly feisty, tell them that your Lord and Lady belong to the HUMAN culture! :hehehehe:


So... that was a big ol' long post of me trying to ask if I'm the only one that sees her gods this way and deals with these issues. Am I?
Nope.

[Mouse]

I'm strictly duothesic :) I don't see them as "the Lady and the Lord", but I'm not Wiccan either. I see them as the God and Goddess who have no names, because I believe to name something, or to know something's name, is to have power over it.
You're not alone. I originally started working with cultural deities and it really didn't fit. It felt cartoonish (I'm sorry, but this is the only way I can decribe it) like I was pretending they existed, or just hopping in the same way I did when I was trying to be Christian.
I think we're in the minority, but it doesn't really matter. Don't let other people make you feel like crap when in your heart you know you are not doing wrong. :D
Take cares,
~Miriam

[Arion]

I'm not Wiccan anymore, but I did study it for a while. Personally I didn't like the generic Lord and Lady or Goddess and God, I always would choose cultural deities that corresponded to what I believed they stood for. At first it was Gaia and Uranus, then I wanted gods with more personality and myths associated with them, and started calling them Aphrodite and Dionysus. It was while I was working with these deities that I discovered that they were not names for "the" Goddess and "the" God, but individual in their own rights. I think, from a Wiccan perspective, giving specific names to the Goddess and God can get confusing; if its better for you to not attach names of deities to them, all the power to you!