Where do you place your quarter candles/cups when you cast circle?

[Mouse]

This question occured to me when I was reading another thread. It's so simple I never thought to ask before.

When you cast a circle (for those that do) where do you place your quarter candles or cups, 1) outside of the circle, 2) On the edge of the circle (half in half out of the circle, a part of the circle wall itself) or 3) Just inside the circle?

Or do you not use them? Or put them elsewhere?

And why do you put them where you do?

Thanks in advance to all who reply.

Edited because spaces between the words are a good idea!

[Crystal Raven]

I put them inside so as I consencrate and cast the circle they are within that, but lately have been doing less and less consencrating and casting :)

[Rowan Darkmoon]

I put them on the line, and use them to help determine the boundaries of my circle. :)

[omar]

ON, the circle, they are part of my circle of protection. The white bubble of light that surounds me.

[rhinoa]

Just outside of the circle line so I out outside.

[CelticMoon11]

I can see why people would have them outside the circle as sort of an external protection and "holding the boundary" from the outside, I can understand why people have them as apart of the circle to strengthen the circle. I usually have them inside though :) as you know

[~Elise~]

When you cast a circle (for those that do) where do you place your quarter candles or cups, 1) outside of the circle, 2) On the edge of the circle (half in half out of the circle, a part of the circle wall itself) or 3) Just inside the circle?



The answer to this is Yes - all of the above

It depends on why I'm casting circle. Sometimes in, sometimes out, sometimes on the altar. Depends

There is no cut and dry answer.

Elise

[debnmike]

ON, the circle, they are part of my circle of protection. The white bubble of light that surounds me.

Same here.

I believe it was you, Mouse, that said this was a bad idea--something to do with allowing a "break" in the circle.

To Mike and I, it helps us visualize and actually seal our circle. Although, we do sometimes put it outside of it because I'm terrified of having my hair catch fire (Mike and I sit in our circle)!!:awilly:

[Mouse]

*nods* yeah that sounds like something I'd say! :lol:

I'm interested in why people do the things they do. I've found lately a lot of magicains are very set in their ways yet have no clue why they practice what they do, so this is one of those small questions connected to that.

I put them just inside the circle line because I don't want anything interfearing with the circle wall which to me should be exactly the same all the way around, no weaknesses. I used to have my cups on the line but I found my circles had a lot of leakage.

Personally I can't see the sense in putting them outside of the circle, because when I cast circle that's the whole world. There is absolutely nothing beyond that line. If it's outside the circle, to me, it may as well be no-existant.

[debnmike]

*nods* yeah that sounds like something I'd say! :lol:

I'm interested in why people do the things they do. I've found lately a lot of magicains are very set in their ways yet have no clue why they practice what they do, so this is one of those small questions connected to that.

I put them just inside the circle line because I don't want anything interfearing with the circle wall which to me should be exactly the same all the way around, no weaknesses. I used to have my cups on the line but I found my circles had a lot of leakage.

Personally I can't see the sense in putting them outside of the circle, because when I cast circle that's the whole world. There is absolutely nothing beyond that line. If it's outside the circle, to me, it may as well be no-existant.

I fully get what you are saying...

When Mike and I first began, we were so paranoid about doing it "right" or that we'd do it "wrong". Well, we've come to the realization that what's right and works for us won't necessarily be the same for someone else.

Because magick in and of itself is about intent, then where you put this or how you do that doesn't really matter. It's all about what it means to you and how you visualize this as a component of your ritual.

I was very interested when you said that, because I hadn't heard that one before. I understand how it can be considered a "break", and I understand how it can be a "wall". Again, I think it's all up to the meaning it has for that person.

I enjoyed that thread (wish I could remember what it was or what it was called--I think it was the "circle" thread in Magick)...it was a terrific read!

[Mouse]

I fully get what you are saying...

When Mike and I first began, we were so paranoid about doing it "right" or that we'd do it "wrong". Well, we've come to the realization that what's right and works for us won't necessarily be the same for someone else.

Because magick in and of itself is about intent, then where you put this or how you do that doesn't really matter. It's all about what it means to you and how you visualize this as a component of your ritual.

I was very interested when you said that, because I hadn't heard that one before. I understand how it can be considered a "break", and I understand how it can be a "wall". Again, I think it's all up to the meaning it has for that person.

I enjoyed that thread (wish I could remember what it was or what it was called--I think it was the "circle" thread in Magick)...it was a terrific read!

Hmm, I see where you are comming from, and I agree to a certain extent. However I find that's not always the case. *trys to think of a way to word it*

Well, if I put sugar, coffee, milk and boiling water into a cup I'm going to get hot coffee. It doesn't matter how much I really really want tea, if I'm useing the ingredience for coffee then i'm going to end up with coffee.
Intent isn't everything (IMO). Everything relies on a combination of things. Intent doesn't mean anything if you don't have the will power to make it happen, just as will alone is pointless without intent to give it focus.

It's not very P.C of me to say so, but there is a wrong way to practice magick, and there are consequences when things go wrong. (depending on the situation of course).

Hmm, all this thinking of tea has made me thursty!!

[debnmike]

Hmm, I see where you are comming from, and I agree to a certain extent. However I find that's not always the case. *trys to think of a way to word it*

Well, if I put sugar, coffee, milk and boiling water into a cup I'm going to get hot coffee. It doesn't matter how much I really really want tea, if I'm useing the ingredience for coffee then i'm going to end up with coffee.
Intent isn't everything (IMO). Everything relies on a combination of things. Intent doesn't mean anything if you don't have the will power to make it happen, just as will alone is pointless without intent to give it focus.

It's not very P.C of me to say so, but there is a wrong way to practice magick, and there are consequences when things go wrong. (depending on the situation of course).

Hmm, all this thinking of tea has made me thursty!!

Too true about the coffee/tea thing. However, because a lot of what is used in magick is symbolic, then it's an entirely different thing.

For instance, there are several different elements you can use to represent fire. However, what you may see as a fire element may not ring true with someone else. Same with an air element --I saw once where someone used Cool Whip--I didn't get that at all!--(sorry, but I laughed at that inside!). To me, Cool Whip represents either pudding or pie--not air. But to that person, it was a great representation of that element. Does that make her ritual invalid? Nope, because to her it was air.

Because of the personal nature of magick, you can use just about anything to symbolize just about anything, simply because you connect with it and it makes sense to you.

Oh yeah, spells can be done incorrectly, but I'd be more inclined to think that'd be more of a lack of knowledge than using the wrong element or placement of something. Worst case scenario in that instance is that it simply doesn't work. When a spell goes "bad", in my personal belief it's because the person working the spell had bad intent and didn't think it all the way through (karma can be a bitch!)

Mike and I have used several different items in our rituals that would make absolutely no sense to others, but ring true to us. They work for us, because it's our energy and our intent that makes it happen (we still don't use Cool Whip--well, not in ritual situations, anyway!:))

Sorry, I think I rambled here (I really need decaf)....can I have some tea too? Chamomile, if you please!

[Mouse]

Too true about the coffee/tea thing. However, because a lot of what is used in magick is symbolic, then it's an entirely different thing.

For instance, there are several different elements you can use to represent fire. However, what you may see as a fire element may not ring true with someone else. Same with an air element --I saw once where someone used Cool Whip--I didn't get that at all!--(sorry, but I laughed at that inside!). To me, Cool Whip represents either pudding or pie--not air. But to that person, it was a great representation of that element. Does that make her ritual invalid? Nope, because to her it was air.

Because of the personal nature of magick, you can use just about anything to symbolize just about anything, simply because you connect with it and it makes sense to you.

Oh yeah, spells can be done incorrectly, but I'd be more inclined to think that'd be more of a lack of knowledge than using the wrong element or placement of something. Worst case scenario in that instance is that it simply doesn't work. When a spell goes "bad", in my personal belief it's because the person working the spell had bad intent and didn't think it all the way through (karma can be a bitch!)

Mike and I have used several different items in our rituals that would make absolutely no sense to others, but ring true to us. They work for us, because it's our energy and our intent that makes it happen (we still don't use Cool Whip--well, not in ritual situations, anyway!:))

Sorry, I think I rambled here (I really need decaf)....can I have some tea too? Chamomile, if you please!

*hands you some Chamomile and privatly shudders* :)

Cool whip? That's a new one. In my house though it wouldn't last long enough to be used in ritual :p
I think that in 98% of cases you are right, but that occasionally people think they are making tea (through lack of knowledge) and end up with coffee by mistake.
But then I don't think everything is symbolic either. It would be hard to draw a deffinant line on what is and isn't though, so I wont be trying to sort that out any time soon!

I think a lot of magick is like science, some things will always work, some things never will, and some things wil explode in your face and make an unholy mess.

This convo is really interesting. It's great to discuss this with someone who doesn't get offended.

[debnmike]

*hands you some Chamomile and privatly shudders* :)

Gracias! (that's the extent of my Spanish--well, that and some really offensive curse words).


I think a lot of magick is like science, some things will always work, some things never will, and some things wil explode in your face and make an unholy mess.
True, true, and true...however, as I said--it's my belief that using Cool Whip won't do any harm (it may be ineffectual, but not harmful). Bad intent, especially with no aforethought as to the possible ramifications, is much much much more dangerous, and likely to "make an unholy mess".


This convo is really interesting. It's great to discuss this with someone who doesn't get offended.
I so agree! For the record, I don't get offended easily. I'm good with my own perspectives, can usually admit when I'm wrong, and enjoy hearing other viewpoints.

Do you have any Splenda and 1/2 & 1/2 for my tea?

[Lunacie]

I think I can understand using Cool Whip to represent the element of Air, because the whole point of whipping the cream is to incorporate lots and lots of air into it. Would I use it myself? Probably not... unless I was doing a special ritual and I really can't think of one like that at the moment, but I did love doing The Chocolate Ritual with HoHo's and Twinkies and Chocolate Liquor. ;)

This sounds like a great question to bring up at our class on Saturday night (the class is about the gods and goddesses but hey...) and ask for thoughts there. I'll admit I never thought about how the other Priestess cast the circle, apparently she was doing it the way I'm used to - otherwise I'd have noticed I think. Anway, I cast the circle so the quarter candles are just inside the circle or else on the altar. Depends on where we're (I'm) doing the ritual.

[debnmike]

I think I can understand using Cool Whip to represent the element of Air, because the whole point of whipping the cream is to incorporate lots and lots of air into it. Would I use it myself? Probably not... unless I was doing a special ritual and I really can't think of one like that at the moment, but I did love doing The Chocolate Ritual with HoHo's and Twinkies and Chocolate Liquor. ;)


Please PM me with this one!!

[Lunacie]

Do your own work! :lol: Really, a good Google or any websearch will find a couple of copies of this ritual, and several other really inventive and delightful rituals. We used the Chocolate Ritual for a Croning Ceremony last year.

[debnmike]

Do your own work! :lol:

:damnpc:

[Sionnach le Fey]

I don't use any items to represent the elements in my circle.
When I cast my circle, I usually visualize it glowing around me. When it comes to the elements, I do the same, except I visualize them inside as well as around me. I imagine the rushing ocean waves or trickling forest stream for water; soft grass underneath my feet and towering tree bark for earth; the summer breeze brushing against my skin for air; and the heat and energy of a flame for fire.

[Kmartin60]

:yayah: I just had to jump in on this one! Seeing that poor computer being thrown icon just had me on floor laughing SO hard! I wanna do that to this new puter! (grrrr) but that aint gonna help you with the choco ritual! hmmm...gotta go google chocoate ANYTHING! :awilly: hahahahha, poor puter!

[debnmike]

I don't use any items to represent the elements in my circle.
When I cast my circle, I usually visualize it glowing around me. When it comes to the elements, I do the same, except I visualize them inside as well as around me. I imagine the rushing ocean waves or trickling forest stream for water; soft grass underneath my feet and towering tree bark for earth; the summer breeze brushing against my skin for air; and the heat and energy of a flame for fire.

Well, then that's my point! Some folks don't use anything to represent the elements, some do. Some use odd stuff (read:cool whip...I still don't get it) some use more common stuff.

It's about intent, not stuff. (although most of the stuff is pretty neat)

I know, Mouse, I'm bogarting your thread. Sorry. _inabox_

[Cassie]

Interesting I hadn't really thought about this for a while.
When I do rituals outside, the quarter candles are placed just inside the boundry of the circle.
I agree with what Mouse said that I try to banish anything outside the circle from from my thoughts, so having the candles on the line (or outside it) would be destracting.
When I do rituals inside I put the quarter lights well inside the circle; anywhere safe and convenient to move around!

[Sionnach le Fey]

It's about intent, not stuff. (although most of the stuff is pretty neat)


I agree :) Having snazzy stuff to represent the elements would be quite cool, but it's not neccessary to have any items all, IMHO.

[debnmike]

I agree :) Having snazzy stuff to represent the elements would be quite cool, but it's not neccessary to have any items all, IMHO.

I love the way you said this!

[HetHert]

Its my opinion that candles can go inside, on the line, or outside...depending on the intent of the circle. I think debnmike and pearls59 stated the same.

And I agree partly with Mouse about the intent not being everything in certain circumstances...and I'll explain it this way: Ingredients and the science of casting are important, but the science is what is issued forth from the practitioner. The science of magic, for me, is whats inside me and my knowledge of what works for me. For instance when I light a certain incense like frankensense I'm going for a certain vibration that that incense lends to my work...all those energies that its capable of lending are brought forth and awaken in me the part of my brain that is tied to the magical realm...the unseen aspects and energies that surround us. And once I've keyed to those vibrations I'm able to thusly take control and direct where and how those energies mix. Does this make sense?

So yeah, Mouse, upon further thinking, I can see how perhaps for you fire is an element whose energies do something completely different for you in some aspect than they do for me. Depending on differing energies and how we awaken to them and how our senses become alive in their precense when we open up to their influence it can be as differnent to me and you as night and day.

[Mouse]

DebnMike:

Do you have any Splenda and 1/2 & 1/2 for my tea?

If that's some kind of sugar subsitute, then no. *offers raw sugar* I swear that stuff must be bad for you. *twitch*

The Chocolate Ritual (http://www.thedance.com/test/chocrit.htm), or one of it's variations at least. :lol:


I know, Mouse, I'm bogarting your thread. Sorry.

You're forgiven *long suffering sigh*

Silver Nightfire:

I don't use any items to represent the elements in my circle.
When I cast my circle, I usually visualize it glowing around me. When it comes to the elements, I do the same, except I visualize them inside as well as around me. I imagine the rushing ocean waves or trickling forest stream for water; soft grass underneath my feet and towering tree bark for earth; the summer breeze brushing against my skin for air; and the heat and energy of a flame for fire.

A lot of people who are new to magick say they are afraid to start doing rituals incase they get it wrong. I think useing your method would probably be the safest (though probably hardest) way around this. OT I know...

HetHert:

Its my opinion that candles can go inside, on the line, or outside...depending on the intent of the circle. I think debnmike and pearls59 stated the same.

In what situations would they go outside though? or in what (general) situations would you put them inside or on the line? I'm interested in why people do the things they do. :)

[Windsmith]

When I use direction-markers (it's not all the time, and it's seldom candles), I put them on the line. Actually, theyare the line. I don't mark out the circle with anything, because I don't have a circle of a set size. If we're doing ritual at home, the whole apartment is our circle. If we go to the park to do ritual tai chi, the whole park is our circle. If we just go for a walk, we cast a tiny circle around ourselves and take it with us wherever we go. Putting a line "around" that is pretty hard. So the direction-markers are more like tokens of respect and acknowledgement to each of the elements and general boundaries of the working space - though not the sacred space. Since I have the worst sense of direction in all of Pagan-kind, they also help me remember which way is which! 8O

[CelticMoon11]

bump

[fangedeshana]

I've been following this thread and thinking about my own practice. I don't actually mark the quarters. I haven't found anything yet that I'd like to use to mark them.

On my altar I have a large candle for meditation work, a green and a yellow candle for study and focus and a rock representing masculine qualities of the universe, and some seashells from Clontarf beach in Sydney representing female qualities in the universe.

My circle casting is usually visualization of a sphere to raise and contain energy in, help alter my state of mind and mark out a place sacred for me to do my work in.

If I were to find something I liked to mark out the quarters I'd love too. I'd probably have them just inside the circle, to influence and balance the energy inside my sacred space. If I wanted to strengthen the actualy circle of energy itself, then I would probably lay out a few quartz crystals along the line of the circle, and mark it out.

EDIT: I have just given myself a wonderful idea for marking out my circle when i do *throws away the chalk* lol

[tara]

I put them on the inside of thee circle. Putting them on the outside or on the line gives me the impression of breaking the circle, which I don't want happening!

[Philosophia]

I put them on the circle line.

[wolf]

I put the representations of the quarters/elements on the altar where they are less likely to get trod on or knocked over.

Setting fire to other celebrants is considered bad manners ... 8O

[Mouse]

Thanks to everyone who has replied! Some people still are not saying why they do these things though, which is what I'm most interested in. :)

[Windsmith]

Setting fire to other celebrants is considered bad manners ... 8OUnless they ask nicely.

[wolf]

Good point.