Any Cochrane witches here?

[David19]

I was looking through the 'non-wiccan witchcraft rollcall' thread, and it got me thinking, are there any Cochrane witches here, i've become interested in it recently (although i still don't know if it's the path for me, as i'm interested in Feri witchcraft, and Sumerian and Hellenic reconstructionism, and i've got a bit of an interest in Alexandrian Wicca (although i think i just want to learn more about the last one, but who knows?).

Not many people seem to be interested in Cochrane witchcraft (like the Clan of Tubal Cain, the 1734 tradition, etc), and some people don't even seem to know who Cochrane was (despite Vialiente leaving Gardner to work with Cochrane).

While i haven't, fully, decided if it's my path, i do like what i've heard and i've learnt a lot from just one Cochrane witch who's taught me a lot (online), i've even learnt a lot about the concept of 'Old Fate' (from what i've got, it's more 3 seperate deities that share a similar concept), etc.

Anyway, is anyone here a Cochrane witch?, or interested in the path or even if you have any opinions on it or Cochrane.

[Duwayitheru]

Never heard of it myself.. I'll have to look it up.. :raining:

[Semjaza]

I'm really interested in Cochrane's work, and those traditions descended from him, but I think you already knew that :)

I know first hand what you mean when a lot of people don't even know who he was; the only people I've met who didn't say "Cochrane, who?" when I mentioned him were a couple of BTWs. On that note, Cochrane was recently discussed on the BTW Yahoo list Amber and Jet. The conclusion there seemed to be that Cochrane's stuff was interesting, and that he and Gardner were "two trees in the same forest." There seem to be quite a few people who follow Gardnerian or Alexandrian Wicca and a Cochrane Witchcraft tradition too, or a mix of both... (And there are some I've talked to who are fascinated by Cochrane's work yet despise Gardner's... Hmmm)

Now that I think about it, I wonder where I first heard about Cochrane? Maybe in with some of Nigel Jackson's stuff? I really don't know... :)

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

Edit: Now I remember, I was after Jackson's book on Luciferian Witchcraft, The Pillars of Tubal Cain, and stumbled across Cochrane's stuff from there... Heh heh I must have been about 13 or 14 at the time, and didn't know what I'd found....

[David19]

I'm really interested in Cochrane's work, and those traditions descended from him, but I think you already knew that :)

I know first hand what you mean when a lot of people don't even know who he was; the only people I've met who didn't say "Cochrane, who?" when I mentioned him were a couple of BTWs. On that note, Cochrane was recently discussed on the BTW Yahoo list Amber and Jet. The conclusion there seemed to be that Cochrane's stuff was interesting, and that he and Gardner were "two trees in the same forest." There seem to be quite a few people who follow Gardnerian or Alexandrian Wicca and a Cochrane Witchcraft tradition too, or a mix of both... (And there are some I've talked to who are fascinated by Cochrane's work yet despise Gardner's... Hmmm)

Now that I think about it, I wonder where I first heard about Cochrane? Maybe in with some of Nigel Jackson's stuff? I really don't know... :)

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

Edit: Now I remember, I was after Jackson's book on Luciferian Witchcraft, The Pillars of Tubal Cain, and stumbled across Cochrane's stuff from there... Heh heh I must have been about 13 or 14 at the time, and didn't know what I'd found....

Yeah, i knew you were also interested in Cochrane witchcraft :).

Speaking of The Pillars of Tubal Cain, would you recommend that book? (i've heard that ones about angels, i think).

[Semjaza]

Yeah, i knew you were also interested in Cochrane witchcraft :).

Speaking of The Pillars of Tubal Cain, would you recommend that book? (i've heard that ones about angels, i think).

You know, funnily enough, I've never actually been able to get my hands on a copy. It was usually referenced/quoted in what I was reading (Watchers, Nephilim, Witches' gods, etc) ... Sorry if I wasn't clear there :)

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

[MorningStar]

As far as I know, Marian Green was a member of Tubal Cain. Her most famous book is "A Witch Alone", which many witches I know and respect recommend. I don't no how much, and if, her book draws from Chocrane's teachings

I encountered the name not long ago, also after a discussion (maybe the same one Semjaza mentioned) on A&J. I did some reading (on the net) and for now I'm satiated, but it's always fine by me to learn new things.

[Ben Gruagach]

I've read a lot of the stuff out by Cochrane and people associated with him -- things like "The Roebuck in the Thicket," "The Robert Cochrane Letters," and "The Pillars of Tubal-Cain." Also "Call of the Horned Piper" and "Masks of Misrule" (both by Nigel Jackson.)

I do incorporate some of Cochrane's material in my own practice but then I also incorporate a lot of Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca (which tends to be more dominant in my practice for ritual structure etc.) I don't really consider myself to be a Cochrane-witch though as much as an eclectic Wiccan.

That's interesting about Marian Green -- I hadn't heard she was involved with Cochrane or his stuff at all let alone an initiate of the Tubal-Cain group. It's not really surprising though because the English occult community, especially before the 1980s, had a huge amount of cross-pollination and multiple memberships going on.

[morganxpage]

Would you recommend Nigel Jackson's works? I've been thinking of reading a couple of them.

[Ben Gruagach]

Would you recommend Nigel Jackson's works? I've been thinking of reading a couple of them.

Jackson's books are definitely interesting. He follows Cochrane in that he is more than willing to explore aspects of witch lore that many Wiccans overlook. Cochrane-inspired stuff including Jackson's is more shamanic in flavour and more earthy (i.e. not afraid to delve into the darker side of things.)

[morganxpage]

Witchcraft books that deal with the darker side of things? :fpraise:

I'm really going to have to track these books down. Thanks for the rec!

[haw_thrn]

I reciently got my hands on a copy of the roebuck in the thicket. Its a collection of arcticles fron evan john jones and robert cochrane. From what I've read I like his (cochrane's that is) views on witchcraft. Most notably in chapter three "titled witchcraft today"

I'm very much an inner search kind of person, so what I've read of him so far tends to resonate with me even if he does have a dubious character (who does'nt?) I'm looking forward to finding out more about him.

[Lolair]

I am very intrigued by Robert Cochrane's writings and style of witchcraft. He had a very interesting life until it abruptly ended in 1966 when he committed suicide. He was very anti-Gardnerian even though some of his ritual practices and theology were similar - most likely because his philosophy was highly influenced by Graves' The White Goddess as much of Wicca is.

Cochrane's original coven (the lineage, not the people) has still continued in Britain, but there are two American offshoots, the very loosely based 1734 'tradition' (various groups) and The Ancient Keltic Church headed by the Finnins who trained under Evan John Jones.

For anyone who is as fascinated by Bower's as I am, here's a recommended reading list:

The Roebuck in the Thicket (http://www.amazon.com/Roebuck-Thicket-Anthology-Witchcraft-Tradition/dp/1861631553/sr=8-1/qid=1170353292/ref=sr_1_1/103-2980201-8505444?ie=UTF8&s=books) - Evan John Jones, Robert Cochrane & Mike Howard
The Robert Cochrane Letters (http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Cochrane-Letters-Traditional-Witchcraft/dp/1861632096/ref=pd_sim_b_3/103-2980201-8505444) (published) - Evan John Jones & Mike Howard
The Writings of Roy Bowers (http://www.cyberwitch.com/bowers/) (online - differ from published version)
The Rebirth of Witchcraft by Doreen Valiente -Chapters 6-8
Witchcraft: A Tradition Renewed by Evan John Jones, intro and poetry by Doreen Valiente
Triumph of the Moon (http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Moon-History-Modern-Witchcraft/dp/0192854496/sr=1-1/qid=1170353666/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-2980201-8505444?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Ronald Hutton Chapters 15-16 (take with a grain of salt, Hutton doesn't believe what he can't find evidence for on paper)
A Poisoned Chalice: The Death of Robert Cochrane by Gavin Semple, Reineke Verlag 2004.If you're really obsessed email the Finnins, very friendly people or Mike Howard who is very knowledgable - he did publish many of Cochrane's articles.

[David19]

Hey Lolair, thanks for those book recommendations, many of those are on my wish list, and a few are new (like the poisoned chalice one), as i think i mentioned in the first post, Cochrane and Cochrane witchcraft really interest me, although i've been neglecting it as of late, due to various things (uni work, other things, etc).

Again, thanks for the list, and also for mentioning those 2 contacts.

[Lolair]

Hi David,

Glad to help! A Poisoned Chalice is really a booklet/essay. There were only 100 copies made so it's not easy to find, but there is another option, Semple's essay was also published in the Nov 2004 issue of The Cauldron. It's a handy essay to have as it has details of Cochrane's death that others did not research including his suicide note and a dissection of the events leading up to his death.

Blessings,
Lolair

[David19]

Hi David,

Glad to help! A Poisoned Chalice is really a booklet/essay. There were only 100 copies made so it's not easy to find, but there is another option, Semple's essay was also published in the Nov 2004 issue of The Cauldron. It's a handy essay to have as it has details of Cochrane's death that others did not research including his suicide note and a dissection of the events leading up to his death.

Blessings,
Lolair

Thanks for that, i'll try and find the essay, as i'd like to learn a lot more about Cochrane.

[Moondancer]

Anyway, is anyone here a Cochrane witch?, or interested in the path or even if you have any opinions on it or Cochrane.

While my path is not the same as Cochrane's, there are some similarities. I first heard about Clan of Tubal Cain and the Order of 1734 back in the 1970s from Joe Wilson.

The books listed above are good, and I recommend them highly, other than Hutton's Triumph of the Moon, which I do not recommend at all. IMO, Hutton cannot find the forest for the trees, and has deliberately chosen to ignore evidence that contradicts his presumptions.