Possession

[plumedsnake]

I'm interested to know if anyone out there has spirit possession as a part of their practice. Do your dieties possess you, and what is your experience of it like, and how did it all begin?

[David19]

I don't practice possession, but then i don't really have a path yet. I'm interested in it though and i think it's a part of a lot of religions (like Vodou, Feri witchcraft (something i'm interested in), Kemetism, even Christianity (some forms at least, i think Catholic's have the 'mysterious union',where a monk or priest will join with YHWH for a time), etc.

I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences though.

[Aquila ka Hecate]

Err...surely we have some Wiccans around here?

Trance posession is central to their ritual.

I would also be interested in hearing about anyone's personal experiences of such.

Blessings


Terri in Joburg

[~Elise~]

Possession work is an essential part of Feri.

As for describing it--words are not enough. It has to happen to be understood.

Elise

[Shanti]

That's not a topic that I would want to share, in detail, on a open forum.
Let alone, share with just anyone.
That type of work is very involved and not simply done.

[ancestral_lee]

its central to trads like Voudon and Wicca.

for wicca look into drawing down the moon. to pre-empt other comments, the poem is a stand-by in case the actual event didnt work. oh and it requires two people to be present.

if you are on your own, go for face to face contact with the diety ratheer then full on trance - for a start the deity will have nobody to talk to/at.

lee

[Duwayitheru]

Ritual possession by Deities is part of Kemetic Orthodoxy. It is done by a specially trained priest, so it is not something I have experianced. As I understand, this sort of ritual possession is important to many Kemetic/Egyptian traditions.

[David19]

its central to trads like Voudon and Wicca.

for wicca look into drawing down the moon. to pre-empt other comments, the poem is a stand-by in case the actual event didnt work. oh and it requires two people to be present.

if you are on your own, go for face to face contact with the diety ratheer then full on trance - for a start the deity will have nobody to talk to/at.

lee

I'm not Wiccan, but what do you mean by 'face to face contact'?.

[Jenett]

I've done some work with this, but as others have said, details aren't really suitable for this kind of setting.

We have the option to learn the skills to do it after initiation, if we wish. (In some trads, I know it's a requirement to go beyond a certain point. For us, it's optional, but we're encouraged to consider it.) We begin with an exercise that is basically *very* baby steps, with experienced people anchoring and helping to 'spot' the experience, and work up from there. (Again, this assumes very solid ability in what we consider basic skills - grounding, centering, personal energy work, etc.)

The experience is amazing - even the few times I've done it (several times in personal work, once in ritual) it's been rewarding, informative, helpful, and all sorts of other stuff. We do view it as a community service thing: it's something that is generally of more direct help to the other people there than to the priest/priestess themselves. (though, hopefully, that feeling of unity with a deity is also good for them.)

[Seshata]

You do need someone else there if you're looking at doing trancework - doing it solo can be a dangerous enterprise healthwise and if you are trying to go into full trance, it would be a tad difficult if the deity concerned had no-one to talk to. You can have various levels of trance, but as has been indicated by others on here, it's something that is learnt to be done properly and you really need to have strong foundations in other magical work before thinking about embarking on this. This doesn't mean that people with little or no experience haven't gone into trance, but without others with more knowledge about this with them, this can be a frightening at times for some experience.

If you go into full trance, this is not for yourself but for others, the deity comes and talks to those around you and you are just a vessel.

I would agree with Lee's comment of going for 'face to face' contact if you're solo. This can be done through consistent work with the deity concerned, meditation, rituals etc.

BB

Seshata

[plumedsnake]

[QUOTE=Jenett]
We begin with an exercise that is basically *very* baby steps, with experienced people anchoring and helping to 'spot' the experience, and work up from there. (Again, this assumes very solid ability in what we consider basic skills - grounding, centering, personal energy work, etc.)

QUOTE]

I was under the impression from my observations (I haven't ever been possessed but I've witnessed it) that the more intense possessions occur to beginners and that with experience one learns to exert some control over the experience.

I'm very interested in spontaneous occurrences of possession outside of the ritual context. At first this is usually how it happens and then the possessee learns to control it in a ritual context.

I understand that people aren't keen to talk about this aspect of their practice, but I don't want too much details. I am just interested in stuff like:
The context in which it first happened?
If it is done in accompaniment to music?
What role music and art plays in Rituals anyway?
And, If the experience is ever Violent?
Are there physiological changes to the person that undergoes it while it occurs?
Are there possession by undesirable entities?

[MoonDragn]

Possession is 9/10ths of the law... Hmmm where does that expression come from?

[ancestral_lee]

posession is 9/10th's of the lwa you mean?

:)

[ancestral_lee]

I'm not Wiccan, but what do you mean by 'face to face contact'?.

ritual, meditation. offerings and 'meeting up' with them in pathworkings or journeying. you meeting them rather than surrendering yourself for them to occupy for a shorrt period.

lee

[Cat]

I understand that people aren't keen to talk about this aspect of their practice, but I don't want too much details. I am just interested in stuff like:
The context in which it first happened?
If it is done in accompaniment to music?
What role music and art plays in Rituals anyway?
And, If the experience is ever Violent?
Are there physiological changes to the person that undergoes it while it occurs?
Are there possession by undesirable entities?

Its a part of my practice. As the others said, I don't think I can describe it in words. But I will try to answer your questions.

It first happened when we Drew in circle without really understanding what we were doing. A member of the group had done some research and come up with a ritual that included posession without really understanding that it *was* possession. The experience was intense, and very positive. We got some training from the HPS of another group who had significant experience in this once she realized what we were doing.

Please Note--untrained Draws are dangerous. While nothing bad happened to us, the experience was life-changing. Others who have Drawn accidentally have not been as lucky as we were. Don't try this at home. Professional driver on closed track. Your mileage may vary. Please don't sue me.

No, we don't use music, though we certainly could.

What role music and art play in ritual is entirely up to you.

Yes, there are physiological changes. In two ways. First, we knowthat the brain does some different things when a person is having a mystical in touch with the universe type of experience. I have an article about that somewhere but I can't find it now. I would posit that it also does odd things during a possession, but that is just a guess. It would be fascinating for someone to research that. And second, I've noticed that people with mobility/medical issues are able to move freely during a possession.

It's possible for there to be violence. That's one reason why support people are important. Actually I had one spontaneous Draw that was almost violent, and that I stopped just before it got to that point. However that was under a rather bizarre set of circumstances. It's also the only trance I have ever had that was so deep that I can't recall what happened during most of it.

An experienced person is very unlikely to Draw an unwelcome or undesireable entity. If it begins to happen, they can just say no and end the experience.

Just my two cents' worth.

[Seshata]

It's also the only trance I have ever had that was so deep that I can't recall what happened during most of it.
An experienced person is very unlikely to Draw an unwelcome or undesireable entity. If it begins to happen, they can just say no and end the experience.

It does depend though.. If you've gone 'bang' into trance and you are literally 'out of the building' that is where those who are with you in circle come into play, and it may be just one person who is specifically trained in dealing with this. You can also have the situation when the 'nice' deity just decides that they are going to stay a little longer than they should or whatever, this is then again another occasion when the other individual then has a word with them and tells them either nicely/politely or a little stronger if it is that type of entity/deity/spirit that it's time to go so that the 'vessel' has some rest. This can happen with the most trained and experienced of individuals. I know of one HPs (who has been in craft for 30 or more years) who went into full trance, deity came and prophesised individually to about 100 people and would have done more if her HP hadn't put his foot down and told the diety firmly and politely, thankyou but your Priestess is tired and worn down, you are most welcome to the party but to please leave your 'vessel'..

BB

Seshata

[David19]

ritual, meditation. offerings and 'meeting up' with them in pathworkings or journeying. you meeting them rather than surrendering yourself for them to occupy for a shorrt period.

lee

Thanks for that.

[Jenett]

I was under the impression from my observations (I haven't ever been possessed but I've witnessed it) that the more intense possessions occur to beginners and that with experience one learns to exert some control over the experience.

It honestly depends. From talking to various people, seeing how different people handle it, etc. here's my theory.

Some people are natural channels. Generally, they *know* this, if they're adults looking at religious training in a tradition that works with this kind of thing, because they've been dealing with that tapping on the shoulder from stuff that wants to talk for a while.

Some people deal with that knocking by shutting down - just refusing to listen. These people often have a hard time opening the door up again, even after they become interested in trying - well, just like retraining any other reflex.

Other people learn to let some of the information in, without fully letting whatever it is enter them. Or any number of other variations on that kind of concept. (These people usually have a fairly easy time once they have a context to do it in: one of my covenmates is like this. She had to learn control, and how to say "No, not now, I need to do this other work that is why I'm in a medtitative state."

But I also believe there's a lot of people who may not be a really obvious open channel with large neon lights over their head pointing out to any entity that wanders by "Look, mouthpiece below!" And, honestly, I think this is far more of the overall population in the Pagan community than the natural wide-open channels.

Our training program certainly assumes that: we get occaisional people (maybe 1 in 10?) who are wide open to start with, and needs to learn focus and control and how to come back safely. In contrast, we get 8 out of 10 people who are perfectly competent at it once they build skills, but who need a more structured way to approach that kind of work, at least initially. And maybe 1 out of 10 people who were previously wide open, but got scared/hurt and want to learn to re-open.


The context in which it first happened?

Of the people I've talked to about this who I work with/know locally - two have had it happen spontaneously, and had to learn how to deal with it. One has had mild forms of it happen, where it was not a full or coherent invocatory experience. At least 15 others have learned how to do it as a skill, much like we learn meditation or ritual skills, or anything else. In all of those cases, the initial experience of *watching* someone else do it happened a couple of times a year for a year or two before they tried it themselves in a small group training setting.


If it is done in accompaniment to music?
What role music and art plays in Rituals anyway?

Music and art in ritual is probably room for a whole other thread (and in fact, if you're curious, I know there are threads on this topic out there.)

Some traditions use music specifically for invocatory work (the Afro-Carribean paths, for example, generally use specific drum patterns for specific loa, orisha, etc.) That's not as common in Wicca or other religious witchcraft trads that I've seen: it's more common to have some kind of invocatory text, or actions, or both, that serves as a trigger for that state. (No reason, I suppose, that it couldn't be musical too, but it would require a combination of ritual, energy, and musical skills that aren't always in existence in right way.)


And, If the experience is ever Violent?
Are there physiological changes to the person that undergoes it while it occurs?
Are there possession by undesirable entities?

Depends. This is one reason we teach that it is *not* something you do without at least one spotter (who will help monitor for concerns - everything from "Not the intended entity" to "Doing something that the host would consider dangerous to their body". We talk, not entirely jokingly, about contract law when we do this: the trick is that there needs to be someone who can enforce that contract if needed.

I do know at least two people who are noticeably *less* stable and functional after several years of poorly handled invocatory work. I never want that to happen to me, and I absolutely don't want it to happen to people I care about if I can help avoid it.

Much like anything else that can carry some substantial risks that aren't easy to recover from, I think it's sensible to take appropriate safety precautions. Which, in this case, means 'Don't do it alone, don't do it without appropriate support and recovery time planned for, don't do it without a good idea of *why* you're doing it in this instance.'