Empathy setting off mental disorders

[CalisticSunrise]

I was wondering if anyone has this problem. I was diagnosed with Borderline personality disorder when i was younger and it sometimes still gets to me. I have learned to deal with it as well as the empathy, but it seems that when the empathy becomes overwhelming that my borderline becomes out of control. and then in turn i have a hard time keeping my sheild up.

Does anyone else have trouble with empathy and mental disorders coming together? Also for those of you who do, how do you get out of it?

[watercup]

yep...I think empathy and mood disorders share a common thread. I have manic-depression. when i can't 'turn off' the empathy cords I become unstable. here's what helps me...talking it over with a logical detached person; taking off for a walk in the desert alone, chi-gong, taking a shower and washing away the attachments, painting a picture, prayer, drinking a lot of water. Try this chi gong move...jump up and down, wring your hands like you're a dirty towel, shake the negative energy off. Jump hard and slam down...do it about 10 times. Then shake the remnants off your hands and feet. It works pretty immediately.

[Aleannah]

I have often wondered if empathy is a cause or effect of mental disorder. Or is it simply something that often accompanies mental disorders? I really don't know.

[watercup]

I didn't have manic-depression as a child but I was Very sensitive and empathic. I started to show symptoms in my late teens. So for me the mental illness came second. I don't know how I got it, no one in my family has it. But when I was a child I was exposed to a lot of emotional abuse, shock and stress.

Did the super-sensitivity trait become neurotic because of the inescapable bombardment of emotional environmental factors in my family? I think so in my case. Or was I pre-disposed to having Bipolar and the stress sent me over the line? Maybe. Scientists are studying this now.

Good question though and one I don't know the answer to. Perhaps it's different for each person.

[scorpiochick77]

Personally i do think they are associated. I was diagnosed as bipolar with psychotic features, agoraphobia (fear of open places), and social anxiety about three years ago. I spend alot of time alone but i don't know if it's because of the social anxiety or if it's the fact that wherever i go i absorb evryone else's emotions. I just get so overwhelmed by being around alot of people and my mind races and then i get really weak afterwards. I agree with whomever said they take a nice warm shower. I find it soothing to make me a hot bubblebath, light some candles and listen to some good music. Pamper yourself in other words hun.:)

Hope this helps because you're not alone.

[Lunacie]

Chi-gong, eh? Interesting technique. I've been cleansing my aura for years and shaking off the gunk that gets stuck to me. Last year I learned to reach into my Center and pull out the gunk. I guess there are a lot of different techniques for doing the same thing - clearing and cleansing - releasing negativity and unwanted emotions.

Oh, cleansing my aura is like taking a virtual shower - I sweep my hands over my aura from my crown chakra to my feet chakras and then shake the gunk off my hands. Three sweeps generally does the trick.

I have ADHD and at times have wondered if I have BiPolar II. I don't have a formal diagnosis so it could be either one -or - both. My little sister has OCD and probably ADD, and my whole blood family has struggled with depression for as long as I can remember. There does seem to be a coorelation between many of these brain chemistry disorders. There's even a word for that coorelation but I can't remember it.

Lost track (haven't remembered to take my supplements for a few days now - ack) but meant to say that while Empathy and Supersensitivity don't always coincide with brain chemistry disorders like Borderline, BiPolar, Depression, ADHD, etc - and while I'm not a researcher of any sort, I have been seeing a lot of people who seem to have some combination of these more often than I am seeing people who only have one of them.

[Johnathan Brisby]

Personally i do think they are associated. I was diagnosed as bipolar with psychotic features, agoraphobia (fear of open places), and social anxiety about three years ago. I spend alot of time alone but i don't know if it's because of the social anxiety or if it's the fact that wherever i go i absorb evryone else's emotions. I just get so overwhelmed by being around alot of people and my mind races and then i get really weak afterwards. I agree with whomever said they take a nice warm shower. I find it soothing to make me a hot bubblebath, light some candles and listen to some good music. Pamper yourself in other words hun.:)

Hope this helps because you're not alone.


Don't take the medicine there's nothing wrong with you- :yikess: It's NIMH

[scorpiochick77]

Don't take the medicine there's nothing wrong with you- :yikess: It's NIMH
I'm not on any meds. They gave me zoloft when i was first diagnosed and took it only a week before i trashed them.

So....you don't think anything is wrong with me? Hmm...why do i feel like there is? Why do i get so depressed then other times i feel naturally high. (I don't take drugs.) :lol:

[Lunacie]

It's not that there's something "wrong" with us. It's just that we're different and don't fit into this society. In earlier times, people like us became inventors and hermits and hedge witches and nuns and monks - limiting our interactions with society and spending most of our time working alone.

The world is becoming more and more crowded and social, more things to do and more places to go and more people to be around and in contact with ~ and precious little quiet-alone time anymore. That's why so many of us are being diagnosed with different brain chemistries and given meds to make our brains work just like everyone else's.

But hell, the world needs inventors and people who go off in quiet to pray for others.

[Kailen]

I used to get the same thing really bad, since I learnt to block out my empathy to some extent (not completely) it's got better. It also helps that I learnt to distinguish between my emotions and someone elses. So I know when the sadness I'm feeling isn't mine. I try to kind of..."filter"..my empathy, so that the good comes through but not the bad, if that makes sense?

But no, there's nothing wrong with you and I'd advise against taking meds, coz all that'll do is make you reliant on something, and then you'll build up a resistance and hit rock bottom again.

[CassiaMoon]

I have seeked counseling because of a recent loss. But I wasnt aware that it was so powerfully affecting me, until I spoke to a therapist. I went through a life changing experience and suffered a loss. I have since been overwhelmed with waves of depression and sadness. It was affecting my current job to the point where I couldn't perform the simplests of tasks without having anxiety. I finally had to see what a professional would say about it. Well her assesment was that I had "opened up the loss box" I had suffered losing my mom at the age of 8, my father was an alcoholic. And I have had just a traumatic childhood in some aspects. Well according to her its finally taking its toll after being able to shut it off in my late teens to my late twenties. Basically I was, until recently, a "functional depressive." I haven't been put on any medications as of yet, but we're just getting started who knows.
But I read a book about my generation, sometimes called the Indigo Children. It sort of explained why the majority of the world feel that alot of us are being medicated to be controlled. The Indigos are the "Rage against the machine"generation challenging and eventually overthrowing the powers that be. Not an easy task if you are socially labeled, and medicated at an early age.
There is also a series about my children's generation called the Crystalline or Crystal Children which described them from page one on out.

Anything that doesnt fit the status quo is easily defined by it as a "disorder"
Just be mindful of how you label yourself, dont allow others to do it for you.

[scorpiochick77]

I used to get the same thing really bad, since I learnt to block out my empathy to some extent (not completely) it's got better. It also helps that I learnt to distinguish between my emotions and someone elses. So I know when the sadness I'm feeling isn't mine. I try to kind of..."filter"..my empathy, so that the good comes through but not the bad, if that makes sense?

But no, there's nothing wrong with you and I'd advise against taking meds, coz all that'll do is make you reliant on something, and then you'll build up a resistance and hit rock bottom again.
Hi Kailen. That's exactly what i was trying to say. I wish i could block out/distinguish between my feelings and others feelings. Maybe it's me but i find it difficult to do this if that makes any sense? Do you have any advise as far as how i can maybe block this somewhat?

~Lori~

[Faust]

my empathy sets off proximity mines.

[Johnathan Brisby]

I'm not on any meds. They gave me zoloft when i was first diagnosed and took it only a week before i trashed them.

So....you don't think anything is wrong with me? Hmm...why do i feel like there is? Why do i get so depressed then other times i feel naturally high. (I don't take drugs.) :lol:

The veil between you and others is so thin that sometimes the energy merges, and since you can feel it- this affects you. Plus when you're overstimulated by a lot of negative energy you will overreact because your nervous system takes in 10 times as much information as other people's. The high is you, unfettered, either drawing energy from the pure source(god) or from a positive enviornment- whereas the low is an overabundance of basically evil, or extreme negativity, either centered from a single source or a group of individuals.

It's like any other muscle- the more conscious you are, and actually use your extra feelings the more aware you will be. I can actually feel chills and an almost rough/abrasive quality to evil energy. It's like sandpaper on my nerves, and at the same time makes me want to take a shower. Some people are so full of hate it emanates from them, and when you can identify the initial feelings you can back away and avoid those lows, or at least curtail them before you freak out and have to lock yourself away in the dark. You have to learn to trust the instincts that society taught you weren't real from about 1st grade on- it's like riding a bike, you'll be surprised how naturally you take to your intuition again.

:hahugh:

[Faust]

empathy should not be setting off metal detectors

[BlueWaves]

on a side note:
don't try empathy on a mentally slow individual. I tried and it fealt like I was in a hurricane that was void of space. very creepy.


so yea, don't try to "cracK" the mentally slow, its a horrific thing. :(

[Faust]

what are you insinuating?

[BlueWaves]

nothing. i merely went to this thread "Empathy setting off mental disorders"

thinking that someone had tried to do what i did.

[Faust]

ok

[Johnathan Brisby]

Hi Kailen. That's exactly what i was trying to say. I wish i could block out/distinguish between my feelings and others feelings. Maybe it's me but i find it difficult to do this if that makes any sense? Do you have any advise as far as how i can maybe block this somewhat?

~Lori~

You have to identify the holes in your character that create inroads for negativity. False perceptions about yourself, life, and the world around you break down the natural energy flow throughout your body. One of those holes you mentioned in this thread- that there's something wrong with you: there isn't. The term "karma" doesn't refer to payback, that's a misconception resulting from the mistranslation of an eastern concept via bad sources to western teminology. Karma refers to the lessons we recieve to move past our own emotional baggage.

Until we get the lesson we can never progress to the ultimate destination- which is to appreciate life as an experience, the goal is to experience it and have fun. People like us are special, we actually have the inherent capability to comprehend and understand this naturally, which is why we're held back- we're too strong in our pure form to control indefinitely. The good forces in the universe will actually allow the dark forces to test us until they have nothing left in us- when darkness can influence you without your consent it has a hook in you still.

Darkness wants you to feel there's something wrong with you so it can control you and prevent you from spreading the light that only you and a select few others can. The darkness wants to suck your pure light from you because it is cut off from the source due to it's own negative choices. Now who is really the weaker here, you, or the PARASITE? The rose is a metaphore for this personal journey that you must take- the thorns represent the lessons and pitfalls(the pain) on the way to the bud(the heart). When the rose opens in bloom, doubling and even tripling in size that's enlightenment. That's the meaning of Moses' burning bush- the expansion of the heart in compassion and love without fear.

:idea:
:hahugh:

[Lunacie]

You have to identify the holes in your character that create inroads for negativity. False perceptions about yourself, life, and the world around you break down the natural energy flow throughout your body. One of those holes you mentioned in this thread- that there's something wrong with you: there isn't. The term "karma" doesn't refer to payback, that's a misconception resulting from the mistranslation of an eastern concept via bad sources to western teminology. Karma refers to the lessons we recieve to move past our own emotional baggage.

Until we get the lesson we can never progress to the ultimate destination- which is to appreciate life as an experience, the goal is to experience it and have fun. People like us are special, we actually have the inherent capability to comprehend and understand this naturally, which is why we're held back- we're too strong in our pure form to control indefinitely. The good forces in the universe will actually allow the dark forces to test us until they have nothing left in us- when darkness can influence you without your consent it has a hook in you still.

Darkness wants you to feel there's something wrong with you so it can control you and prevent you from spreading the light that only you and a select few others can. The darkness wants to suck your pure light from you because it is cut off from the source due to it's own negative choices. Now who is really the weaker here, you, or the PARASITE? The rose is a metaphore for this personal journey that you must take- the thorns represent the lessons and pitfalls(the pain) on the way to the bud(the heart). When the rose opens in bloom, doubling and even tripling in size that's enlightenment. That's the meaning of Moses' burning bush- the expansion of the heart in compassion and love without fear.

:idea:
:hahugh:

This sounds like Christian dogma applied to something the Christians believe is evil - using our sixth and seventh senses. Pagans don't usually personify the "dark" as something that is out to control us.

[Johnathan Brisby]

This sounds like Christian dogma applied to something the Christians believe is evil - using our sixth and seventh senses. Pagans don't usually personify the "dark" as something that is out to control us.

I'm not christian, and you're not exactly the authority on what is/isn't pagan. Negativity is negativity, and I'm not engaging you in a new-age debate on semantics and rhetoric because you can't undertand or accept what I have to say. You seem to like to criticize when you have nothing substantial to contribute- that's negative energy.:bigblue:

If you can't answer a question you don't have to feel compelled to dismiss another's explanation with a misnomered label.:smash:

Now I'm going to cut to the chase because of course your next fear-based response is going to corespond with my lack of age and experience- because how dare I disagree. Spare me the propaganda- let the person asking the questions be their own judge rather than trying to suppress what you don't like.:jumpshot:

PEACE :ahhhh: I'm not under your spell :dancy:

[Lunacie]

I'm not christian, and you're not exactly the authority on what is/isn't pagan. Negativity is negativity, and I'm not engaging you in a new-age debate on semantics and rhetoric because you can't undertand or accept what I have to say. You seem to like to criticize when you have nothing substantial to contribute- that's negative energy.:bigblue:

If you can't answer a question you don't have to feel compelled to dismiss another's explanation with a misnomered label.:smash:

Now I'm going to cut to the chase because of course your next fear-based response is going to corespond with my lack of age and experience- because how dare I disagree. Spare me the propaganda- let the person asking the questions be their own judge rather than trying to suppress what you don't like.

PEACE :ahhhh: I'm not under your spell

Whoa, I didn't accuse you of anything - much less of being a Christian. I was one myself for many years and I was simply noticing a correspondance between what it seemed you were saying and Christian dogma.

Neither was I trying to speak for all Pagans, I was speaking only from my own experiences. I have never met a Pagan online or in person who thouight that "the dark" was an actual entity that is trying to control us, although like many Pagans I do believe there are dark entities that we're better off not messing with.

My not agreeing with you doesn't mean that I didn't understand you - but if you feel I did misunderstand then please try to reword your thought so that I may understand, 'kay? And disagreeing does not equate with criticism - I was explaining why I disagreed for crying out loud.

And I've had some terrific discussions both online and in person with people from the ages of 15 to 65 and everything in between. I do not discriminate on the basis of age, only on what the person is saying or doing. Seems like you're imagining a lot of negativity on my part that simply does not exist.

You're making this entirely too personal, let's stick to the actual topic, eh? If your response to the topic was not based on Christian dogma then feel free to explain why you believe that "the dark is trying to control us".


eta: I don't even know how old you are - or aren't? Or how much experience you've had, or haven't had. None of that is listed in your profile, so why do you think it would be an issue for me or anyone else?

[Johnathan Brisby]

[size=2][color=black]

Whoa, I didn't accuse you of anything - much less of being a Christian. I was one myself for many years and I was simply noticing a correspondance between what it seemed you were saying and Christian dogma.

Neither was I trying to speak for all Pagans, I was speaking only from my own experiences. I have never met a Pagan online or in person who thouight that "the dark" was an actual entity that is trying to control us, although like many Pagans I do believe there are dark entities that we're better off not messing with.

My not agreeing with you doesn't mean that I didn't understand you - but if you feel I did misunderstand then please try to reword your thought so that I may understand, 'kay? And disagreeing does not equate with criticism - I was explaining why I disagreed for crying out loud.

And I've had some terrific discussions both online and in person with people from the ages of 15 to 65 and everything in between. I do not discriminate on the basis of age, only on what the person is saying or doing. Seems like you're imagining a lot of negativity on my part that simply does not exist.

You're making this entirely too personal, let's stick to the actual topic, eh? If your response to the topic was not based on Christian dogma then feel free to explain why you believe that "the dark is trying to control us".

We're just having fun_tomatoe_ , and I'll explain since us guys can be vague sometimes:hahugh:, and the communication problem more than likely originated from me.:smoochypo

Now when I refer to "the darkness" I'm speaking metaphorically of negativity in general, which has a pattern, and an M.O. to it- I don't believe in this guy::devil:

Evil people will always try to exploit others, and they will seek inroads into the holes in our spirit. It's not that there's a mass conspiracy, it's that negativity follows a pattern. Bad people will work together whether they actually like each other or not, in order to accomplish a specific goal: to eliminate their fear of what they don't understand. They also have never reached a level of compassion and understanding that some have so they usually attack at the emotional level, either subconsciously or consciously. This capacity lies in all of us- the capacity to give in to our fear, anger, and hate- to become servants of our own passions.

Now there are forces on this earth that are not human, and some are not exactly good, and possibly evil. The good forces don't interfere with the tests imposed upon us by these dark(mischevious?) entities so that we can form our spiritual walking legs so to speak- if the good forces coddled us they would cripple us. In other words we only get what we need, nothing more. Now if you really want to know what I believe about theology and mystisism it's this: wherever it comes from the myth is a metaphorical expression of the enlightened person(s) indescribable experience.

All over the world there are legends of a hero or heroine(in Japan for example, it's a woman) who battles a serpent or dragon- this refers to the power of the Goddess, the Shekinha(Hebrew), the holy spirit, the Kundalini(India) that dwells in all of us. Now I don't buy into ALL of this, but I believe what I've experienced and felt- and I know there's more to the universe than what people try and convince me of. In fact I like Obi-wan's description of the Force to Luke: "an energy field created by all living things, it surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together."

:hahugh:

[BlueWaves]

meh. i've reached the levels of compassion. hmm..i could use THAT too :) lol... too funny. i love fluffy threads.

[BlueWaves]

so to say once you've realized "perfect harmony or good" you'll never look back is false. I've reached many levels of "happiness" through astral projection. I'm still chaotic in nature, not good not evil, a little bit of both.

"it's up to me to be me."

[BlueWaves]

AND I'M NOT in the middle either. when i'm good i'm good when i'm evil i'm evil. NOT on the fence on any issue lol :)

[scorpiochick77]

so to say once you've realized "perfect harmony or good" you'll never look back is false. I've reached many levels of "happiness" through astral projection. I'm still chaotic in nature, not good not evil, a little bit of both.

"it's up to me to be me."YES!! Another person who's experienced astral projection and even enjoyed it. I love it because it's sooooooooo awesome.:cheers:

PLEASE.....anybody that wants to be negative and tell me it's not possible to astrally project-DON'T respond to this post. I've had enough people put me down and tell me that theres no such thing. I know that it's very possible to do this because i'm living proof.:hahugh:

Sorry for getting off topic. I got excited when i saw the AP word.:boing:

[angle kitsune]

I think all 'gifts' Empathy or what ever it may be, can set off meny mental disorders.

[Lunacie]

We're just having fun_tomatoe_ , and I'll explain since us guys can be vague sometimes:hahugh:, and the communication problem more than likely originated from me.:smoochypo

Umm, okay, gods know I've been vague more than once or twice. ;) I don't think I was expecting "fun" with this particular question and it kinda threw me.

Now when I refer to "the darkness" I'm speaking metaphorically of negativity in general, which has a pattern, and an M.O. to it- I don't believe in this guy::devil:

Evil people will always try to exploit others, and they will seek inroads into the holes in our spirit. It's not that there's a mass conspiracy, it's that negativity follows a pattern. Bad people will work together whether they actually like each other or not, in order to accomplish a specific goal: to eliminate their fear of what they don't understand. They also have never reached a level of compassion and understanding that some have so they usually attack at the emotional level, either subconsciously or consciously. This capacity lies in all of us- the capacity to give in to our fear, anger, and hate- to become servants of our own passions.

Now there are forces on this earth that are not human, and some are not exactly good, and possibly evil. The good forces don't interfere with the tests imposed upon us by these dark(mischevious?) entities so that we can form our spiritual walking legs so to speak- if the good forces coddled us they would cripple us. In other words we only get what we need, nothing more. Now if you really want to know what I believe about theology and mystisism it's this: wherever it comes from the myth is a metaphorical expression of the enlightened person(s) indescribable experience.

All over the world there are legends of a hero or heroine(in Japan for example, it's a woman) who battles a serpent or dragon- this refers to the power of the Goddess, the Shekinha(Hebrew), the holy spirit, the Kundalini(India) that dwells in all of us. Now I don't buy into ALL of this, but I believe what I've experienced and felt- and I know there's more to the universe than what people try and convince me of. In fact I like Obi-wan's description of the Force to Luke: "an energy field created by all living things, it surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together."

:hahugh:

Okay, thanks for explaining that / clearing it up for me (us). :) I get it that some people don't want us to be different or special, some people want everyone to fit into the same little box because otherwise they feel like they're the ones who are different or that they're not special.

But... I really don't understand how this relates to the question of whether (or not) empathy and mental disorders may be related in some way?

[pluralone]

It depends largely on the setting, I think. I mean, imagine an empath raised in a family who accepts and honors the empath's gifts. The experiences of the empath are going to be treated as 'normal'; development of the gifts will be encouraged.

Compare that to what I personally was exposed to: I was born into a sick but religiously inclined family and raised surrounded by religious people who saw any 'gifts' such as empathy or spiritual sight as 'evil' and 'working of the devil'.

My empathic and spiritual experiences were treated, at first, with "oh you're just tired" and "oh what an imagination you have". As I got older the tolerance was replaced with threats about "satan" and "demons".

So the whole time I was growing up when I could have been developing my gifts I was instead squelching them, ignoring them, and becoming hideously depressed because of all that repression.

No wonder I was diagnosed as bi-polar when I reached my early twenties.

This is the thing: When one manifests gifts and one's belief system (and social support system) is in conflict with the experiences of one's gifts, it can cause some real serious emotional and mental instability.

Was there anything wrong with me as I was growing up? No. The "problems" came from being told, over and over again, that there was, indeed, something hideously wrong. Demons, Satan or simple bad brain chemistry, it all added up to one thing: I was considered damaged and treated accordingly.

I am so glad I finally found a group of people who understood my experiences and were not afraid but accepting and supportive of my gifts. I found that group when I started attending a Reiki class years ago.

Until then I had been treated for bi-polar disorder, depression and psychosis. Now, the only diagnosis I would agree with is this one: PTSD, or post-traumatic stress disorder. I mentioned my family was sick, yes?

Having gifts such as empathy or spiritual sight can be terribly difficult even under the best of circumstances. Finding your way through to the truth of who you are and what parts of you are 'ok' (all of them, even the ones you'd like to change) is a long process, and I wish you the best in finding the support and understanding you need to grow into yourself - an acceptance of your self for who and what you are.

[Lunacie]

meh. i've reached the levels of compassion. hmm..i could use THAT too :) lol... too funny. i love fluffy threads.

Are you implying that bipolar is fluffy... or that empathy is fluffy... or that wondering about a connection between them is fluffy?

so to say once you've realized "perfect harmony or good" you'll never look back is false. I've reached many levels of "happiness" through astral projection. I'm still chaotic in nature, not good not evil, a little bit of both.

"it's up to me to be me."

Sorry, you didn't use the quote feature - who said that about "perfect harmony or good"? And how does it relate to the topic?

And yeah, Astral Projection can be cool.

[Lunacie]

It depends largely on the setting, I think. I mean, imagine an empath raised in a family who accepts and honors the empath's gifts. The experiences of the empath are going to be treated as 'normal'; development of the gifts will be encouraged.

Compare that to what I personally was exposed to: I was born into a sick but religiously inclined family and raised surrounded by religious people who saw any 'gifts' such as empathy or spiritual sight as 'evil' and 'working of the devil'.

My empathic and spiritual experiences were treated, at first, with "oh you're just tired" and "oh what an imagination you have". As I got older the tolerance was replaced with threats about "satan" and "demons".

So the whole time I was growing up when I could have been developing my gifts I was instead squelching them, ignoring them, and becoming hideously depressed because of all that repression.

No wonder I was diagnosed as bi-polar when I reached my early twenties.

This is the thing: When one manifests gifts and one's belief system (and social support system) is in conflict with the experiences of one's gifts, it can cause some real serious emotional and mental instability.

Was there anything wrong with me as I was growing up? No. The "problems" came from being told, over and over again, that there was, indeed, something hideously wrong. Demons, Satan or simple bad brain chemistry, it all added up to one thing: I was considered damaged and treated accordingly.

I am so glad I finally found a group of people who understood my experiences and were not afraid but accepting and supportive of my gifts. I found that group when I started attending a Reiki class years ago.

Until then I had been treated for bi-polar disorder, depression and psychosis. Now, the only diagnosis I would agree with is this one: PTSD, or post-traumatic stress disorder. I mentioned my family was sick, yes?

Having gifts such as empathy or spiritual sight can be terribly difficult even under the best of circumstances. Finding your way through to the truth of who you are and what parts of you are 'ok' (all of them, even the ones you'd like to change) is a long process, and I wish you the best in finding the support and understanding you need to grow into yourself - an acceptance of your self for who and what you are.


Since there aren't any medical or scientific tests at this point to determine whether a person has a brain disorder (what used to be called a chemical imbalance) there are probably as many people who are wrongly diagnosed as being bipolar or ADHD or whatever as there are who are not correctly diagnosed when they do have one of those disorders.

Now, although I could be wrong, I don't believe that a disfunctional childhood causes bipolar or ADHD or OCD, etc. They are indeed differences in brain chemistry or brain wiring. Many times these have been shown to have a genetic component - which means they are inherited predisposition to the condition. Similar to inheriting a tendency to have diabetes or migraines or heart disease. What I'm saying is that it would be most likely that either you were misdiagnosed -or- that there are others in your family with bipolar or another related disorder.

Which leaves the question: Are we born with the tendency to be Empathic or do we become that way because of events we experience? If Empathy is a genetic trait (as I believe), is it related to ADHD, Bipolar, Depression, and OCD?

[pluralone]

I agree: A difficult childhood, no matter how difficult, will not cause ADD, ADHD, bi-polar disorder, etc. Sure can make them a lot harder to handle, though.

And I think a lot of these disorders can truly be found in those who are not spiritually gifted.

I also believe that a lot of people who have been so diagnosed have been misdiagnosed and are being given treatment for 'disorders' they don't have because when one has spiritual gifts that are not accepted by their parents and the medical community, the gifts are taken as symptoms of various disorders.

One way to tell the difference, if one goes so far as to be given medication: Does the medication help? If it does, then certainly it's a matter of an organic disorder. If not, then rather than trying prescription after prescription, why not look into alternative explanations for the 'symptoms'?

Well, because the medical community doesn't recognize spirituality as a valid consideration.

I personally do not believe empathy to be a singularly genetic trait simply because I don't see it as a strictly organically affected (or controlled) part of the individual. I think we must look at the whole person and consider the underlying spirit or energy body, as well as the organic body.

The 'nature versus nurture' argument, as is the case in most instances when it's addressed, does not have to be limited to 'either/or'. It can be both, especially when looking at spiritual gifts.

When I was talking about diagnosis largely depending on the 'setting', what I meant was in the case of an empath who is brought up in a family and social setting where empathy is not recognized as a gift, that person will no doubt be given an alternative label -- one that pathologizes the gift. So the misdiagnosis may be ADD or ADHD or bi-polar or even schizophrenia, but it's still a misdiagnosis.

[Johnathan Brisby]

These "disorders" are the result of a destructive manifestation of a genetic trait. If you take an animal that's a natural runner like a cheetah, and put it in a small cage it will go crazy. That's what happens to sensitives when they're told over and over again that their gifts don't exist- and when they begin to surface anyway in disfunctional and even self-destructive ways then they become a "disorder"- or even a "disease". Emotional stress can fry out a sensitive's nervous system- permanently sometimes- you can drive someone crazy.

Everyone is born different, and who's to say what normal is? Slapping a negative label on someone who's different in order to either medicate them into subservience or guilt-trip them into submission is evil, that's the darkness- that's evil. Sensitives used to be called "flighty", or "high-strung"- now it's a crippling defect to be ashamed of. To me it's those other people who are the FREAKS not us. For every negative label you can find an equally descriptive positive one. Calling oneself a cripple reinforces the already poor self image from outside abuse- and actually causes the problem to worsen.

[Lunacie]

These "disorders" are the result of a destructive manifestation of a genetic trait. If you take an animal that's a natural runner like a cheetah, and put it in a small cage it will go crazy. That's what happens to sensitives when they're told over and over again that their gifts don't exist- and when they begin to surface anyway in disfunctional and even self-destructive ways then they become a "disorder"- or even a "disease". Emotional stress can fry out a sensitive's nervous system- permanently sometimes- you can drive someone crazy.

Everyone is born different, and who's to say what normal is? Slapping a negative label on someone who's different in order to either medicate them into subservience or guilt-trip them into submission is evil, that's the darkness- that's evil. Sensitives used to be called "flighty", or "high-strung"- now it's a crippling defect to be ashamed of. To me it's those other people who are the FREAKS not us. For every negative label you can find an equally descriptive positive one. Calling oneself a cripple reinforces the already poor self image from outside abuse- and actually causes the problem to worsen.

Well, that's interesting and I agree that it explains why some folks see their Empathy as a curse while others see it as a gift.

But it still doesn't tell us whether you think it's related to brain "disorders" which we are born with (according to most medical/scientific folks these days) or whether it's a whole 'nother ball of wax?


Off-Topic... what's with the huge bold-face fonts? I have to click the quote button and resize your posts before I can read them. Wasn't sure it was worth the effort at first, eh.

[Lunacie]

.
<snipped>
One way to tell the difference, if one goes so far as to be given medication: Does the medication help? If it does, then certainly it's a matter of an organic disorder. If not, then rather than trying prescription after prescription, why not look into alternative explanations for the 'symptoms'?

That is generally true of bipolar, I don't know about OCD, but not so much for ADHD. Some people respond to "uppers" like Adderall or Ritalin while others see more improvement by taking anti-depressants. No matter what the illness or the disorder, there isn't any one miracle cure that works equally well for everybody, eh.

Well, because the medical community doesn't recognize spirituality as a valid consideration.

Ain't that the sad truth for my own experiences with the medical community.

I personally do not believe empathy to be a singularly genetic trait simply because I don't see it as a strictly organically affected (or controlled) part of the individual. I think we must look at the whole person and consider the underlying spirit or energy body, as well as the organic body.

I think that is true of any condition we experience as human beings - that there are many components: physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. Western medicine has divided them for far too long; which makes it that much more difficult for us lay people to sort out the connections and understand what we are dealing with.

[Johnathan Brisby]

Well, that's interesting and I agree that it explains why some folks see their Empathy as a curse while others see it as a gift.

But it still doesn't tell us whether you think it's related to brain "disorders" which we are born with (according to most medical/scientific folks these days) or whether it's a whole 'nother ball of wax?


Off-Topic... what's with the huge bold-face fonts? I have to click the quote button and resize your posts before I can read them. Wasn't sure it was worth the effort at first, eh.

Of course it's related, I already said that. Are you wasting my time on purpose? :hrmm:

And why are we on the subject of you stifling my creativity again? Colors to bright, letters to big, fonts too ugly- perhaps I should get a permission slip from the Board of Directors prior to each post, or maybe you could take the right pill Alice? :nuhuh:

[Lunacie]

Where did you say you think they're related - I must have missed that.

... sent the rest of this to your PM box... um, defensive much?

[Phoenix_Blue]

perhaps I should get a permission slip from the Board of Directors prior to each post, or maybe you could take the right pill Alice?
ADMIN MODE

Or maybe you could practice being a little more respectful to other forum members.

[wolf]

Lack of personal boundaries is a symptom of borderline personality.

[TheWomanMonster]

I get the feeling I could be (should be??) diagnosed any number of things.
Now as to the Empathy causing it (or affecting it) I'm not too sure.

The 'symptoms' are very similar though.

I don't think anything is seriously wrong with me, I don't think I need medication or anything.
I do wish i could get these mood swings under control though.

Basically what I'm saying is, hey I relate. and I don't get it either.

We're all in this together.

[NewPhoenix]

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about using Reiki to help bring out empathy. I've had the same experience. I've always been empathic and sensitive, and earlier in my life I totally misunderstood all those feelings and just thought I was nuts... not realizing that I was picking up so much from others. Then about 12 years ago I discovered Reiki and became attuned to the master level. Going through the levels of Reiki REALLY opened up the channel of my sensitivity and unblocked the neurotic tendencies to doubt and worry and mentally get in the way of the feelings. Now I can distinguish the energy sources so much easier and feel the more subtle nuances.

There's still so much more I'd like to learn... like blocking and clearing, to help me. Any suggestions are welcome!!! And I notice that even if I sense the energy more clearly, I still have to periodically withdraw from the hustle and bustle and spend some quiet time in nature or just away from the external noise. I live out in the country right now so that's very helpful to me. I receive much energy from nature and from trees especially. I feel them, they are dear friends and peacekeepers to my soul.

Regarding mental disorders, I think our society is still in its infancy regarding its understanding of the human mind, and with its limited wisdom there is much labeling, defining and boxing people in that takes place today. A quick fix, a desire to deal with knowns rather than the vagueness of unknowns is more comfortable for many people. So if they can diagnose someone quickly then all the better... for therapists and HMOs alike.

I like to look at it this way: ever person and their situation is entirely unique, and labeling or diagnosing, in my honest opinion, should be abolished entirely. Heal the person (not the label) ... by providing clarity, insight, and other assistance as needed.

[wolf]

I do wish i could get these mood swings under control though.

How far do you swing, and how rapidly do you cycle? Are you able to adapt to these patterns (or lack thereof)? To what degree is this interfering in your ability to live your life, complete tasks, work, etc. etc.?

[TheWomanMonster]

How far do you swing, and how rapidly do you cycle? Are you able to adapt to these patterns (or lack thereof)? To what degree is this interfering in your ability to live your life, complete tasks, work, etc. etc.?

Swings are huge sometimes, I can be laughing and happy one moment and then a total wreck the next. ETA: I've done some VERY stupid stuff when in one of these states.
As for the cycle, it varies, can be weeks, days, hours, minutes... (some days are mighty confusing).
ETA: Sometimes I think it's PMS related, sometimes it's just weird though. Normally more than one big (either way high or low) 'episode' a month though.
I'm pretty good at pushing it back to concentrate at work or such.
But I've been dealing with this a long time now...

... yeah.

[wolf]

Consider meds. With the right balance and the right doc, you can be a lot better.

[TheWomanMonster]

Consider meds. With the right balance and the right doc, you can be a lot better.

I figured it might help...
Maybe even something natural? Hmm.

I thank you.
:)

[Johnathan Brisby]

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about using Reiki to help bring out empathy. I've had the same experience. I've always been empathic and sensitive, and earlier in my life I totally misunderstood all those feelings and just thought I was nuts... not realizing that I was picking up so much from others. Then about 12 years ago I discovered Reiki and became attuned to the master level. Going through the levels of Reiki REALLY opened up the channel of my sensitivity and unblocked the neurotic tendencies to doubt and worry and mentally get in the way of the feelings. Now I can distinguish the energy sources so much easier and feel the more subtle nuances.

There's still so much more I'd like to learn... like blocking and clearing, to help me. Any suggestions are welcome!!! And I notice that even if I sense the energy more clearly, I still have to periodically withdraw from the hustle and bustle and spend some quiet time in nature or just away from the external noise. I live out in the country right now so that's very helpful to me. I receive much energy from nature and from trees especially. I feel them, they are dear friends and peacekeepers to my soul.

Regarding mental disorders, I think our society is still in its infancy regarding its understanding of the human mind, and with its limited wisdom there is much labeling, defining and boxing people in that takes place today. A quick fix, a desire to deal with knowns rather than the vagueness of unknowns is more comfortable for many people. So if they can diagnose someone quickly then all the better... for therapists and HMOs alike.

I like to look at it this way: ever person and their situation is entirely unique, and labeling or diagnosing, in my honest opinion, should be abolished entirely. Heal the person (not the label) ... by providing clarity, insight, and other assistance as needed.

I like your opinions. Can you clarify "blocking" and "clearing" for me- I'm not intimately familiar with Reiki, are you referring to another form of visual imagery- or is this something you can actually feel?

[NewPhoenix]

I like your opinions. Can you clarify "blocking" and "clearing" for me- I'm not intimately familiar with Reiki, are you referring to another form of visual imagery- or is this something you can actually feel?

Hi Jonathan, the blocking and clearing that I mentioned is not part of Reiki. I was referring to methods of dealing with negative energy or overabundance of energy that is difficult to handle. Actually the more I think of the term "blocking" the more I think that it doesn't really ring true for me as the best practice that I can utilize. Blocking, to me, is resistance. And I've come to know that resistance just creates a stronger opposing energy force. I think I'd prefer to step aside, to become "invisible" so to speak, and let the negative energy simply move through me and out. yeah, I think I'll focus on that rather than blocking and see how it works.

[Phoenix_Blue]

And I've come to know that resistance just creates a stronger opposing energy force. I think I'd prefer to step aside, to become "invisible" so to speak, and let the negative energy simply move through me and out.
Or around ... that's a very Tai Chi-ish concept--yielding rather than blocking, and letting the force carry itself out of harm's way.

[Johnathan Brisby]

Hi Jonathan, the blocking and clearing that I mentioned is not part of Reiki. I was referring to methods of dealing with negative energy or overabundance of energy that is difficult to handle. Actually the more I think of the term "blocking" the more I think that it doesn't really ring true for me as the best practice that I can utilize. Blocking, to me, is resistance. And I've come to know that resistance just creates a stronger opposing energy force. I think I'd prefer to step aside, to become "invisible" so to speak, and let the negative energy simply move through me and out. yeah, I think I'll focus on that rather than blocking and see how it works.

You have an interesting perspective that's pretty rare, I'm liking you more and more. Wudan Kung-fu deals with the spiritual aspects of self defense you might be referring to- according to the Wudan school, an attack is to be contacted lightly in order to sense it's intensity and direction and then guided away as you use this to throw the opponent off balance and away from you. This is the meaning of the Water Dragon: trancending physical limitations. Easier said than done.:hahugh: I've found in my travels most of these Eastern concepts spring from a single source, which I've been meaning to brush up on:

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html (http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html)

Musashi also might be interesting for you as well:

http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ (http://www.samurai.com/5rings/)

I don't buy into all the "shielding" business myself- negative energy makes me physically ill when I encounter it even briefly. If I'm healthy at the time I'm attacked I can absorb and throw back which is equivalent to hitting a major league pitcher's fastball- it kinda stings the hands and you could break a wrist if you're not careful. This to me is neither optimal, nor desirable, but sometimes the only way.

[Lunacie]

Swings are huge sometimes, I can be laughing and happy one moment and then a total wreck the next. ETA: I've done some VERY stupid stuff when in one of these states.
As for the cycle, it varies, can be weeks, days, hours, minutes... (some days are mighty confusing).
ETA: Sometimes I think it's PMS related, sometimes it's just weird though. Normally more than one big (either way high or low) 'episode' a month though.
I'm pretty good at pushing it back to concentrate at work or such.
But I've been dealing with this a long time now...

... yeah.

Those were very good questions, very helpful. I was so surprised to learn that although Bipolar type I cycles over a period of weeks or months, Bipolar type II can cycle over much shorter periods like days or even hours. However, some folks with ADHD also go through similar cycles or mood swings.

Mine are actually not as bad since I'm menopausal now. Hormones go up and then down over the course of a month (or only 23 freakin' days in my case) and in her book "Women With Attention Deficit Disorder" Sari Solden has a chapter devoted to how hormonal fluctuations affect ADHD women. It may not be the whole answer to PMS - but it certainly seems to be part of the picture for some of us.

As far as supplements and therapy, they can be helpful, although some people do better to start off with prescription meds until they can learn how to regulate things like focus and attention and impulsivity on their own... kinda like training wheels on a bike, eh? I have a couple of reasons for not taking prescription meds, so I began taking Omega 3 supplements a couple of years ago and I've been delighted with the results. I recently read a study done on school children who were treated with a combination of Omega 3 (fish oil) and Evening Primrose Oil that was very promising.

But the amazing thing I've been reading about the Omegas is that they help to regulate mood and for some people work much better than St John's Wart.

However, I don't think they've helped me to regulate my empathic senses. I still find myself retreating from the world and "hermitizing" every now and then. _inabox_

[Lunacie]

Hi Jonathan, the blocking and clearing that I mentioned is not part of Reiki. I was referring to methods of dealing with negative energy or overabundance of energy that is difficult to handle. Actually the more I think of the term "blocking" the more I think that it doesn't really ring true for me as the best practice that I can utilize. Blocking, to me, is resistance. And I've come to know that resistance just creates a stronger opposing energy force. I think I'd prefer to step aside, to become "invisible" so to speak, and let the negative energy simply move through me and out. yeah, I think I'll focus on that rather than blocking and see how it works.

One suggestion that was made in the Bunker was to recognize the "foreign" emotions and change them to something more positive and happy, sending them back to the person who emitted them - we do tend to notice the icky and unhappy emotions more often, eh? Not shoving the changed energies back into their faces of course, but just changing the energy to something better. If the person chooses to accept the energy back that's great, but if they don't at least there isn't this glob of icky-ness stuck to our auras or left in a puddle for others to walk into. :hahugh:

[NewPhoenix]

Or around ... that's a very Tai Chi-ish concept--yielding rather than blocking, and letting the force carry itself out of harm's way.

Hi Phoenix_Blue,

Yes I can see how Tai Chi correlates to what I mentioned. I notice that the seed of truth is found in many different philosophies and approaches. Yielding feels right to me.

Here's my theory on that. There are countless energy movements occuring, with various frequencies and densities. The higher vibrations come closest to the awareness of love and peace, the slower and more dense ones contain less awareness, more darkness so to speak, and what we describe as negativity. Empaths are more sensitive to various energies and can tune in more easily to that realm that lies beneath the surface appearance of life. But this is what I think trips people up, both empaths and non-empaths alike. We forget that we are just energy movements too. We think we're physical beings and we allow the appearance of the dense form of our bodies to disguise our true selves. But even science has proven that what appears to be a physical form is mostly just space, with very occassional objects floating in it. And I bet if we examine those few "objects" we'll find that they too are mostly space, and so on and so on. The whole appearance of a dense physical form is nothing more than illusion. But we really *think* that we have physical substance.

So when we become aware of a "negative" energy movement, our concept of our own physical density then creates a receptacle that receives this energy and merges with it. And then we can feel attacked, or affected somehow. And the only reason that occurs is because we catch the energy by really thinking there's something there (dense physical form called "me") that is ABLE to catch it. Or it's not just a physical form with which we're identified, but also a psychological form (called ego). If it wasn't for our own misguided beliefs about what we are, the energy would simply move "through" us and away, with nothing to stop its progress.

This is another way of looking at the concept of forgiveness.... it is an acknowledgment that there's really nothing to forgive, because nothing happened, because I am not ABLE to be hurt by you, except by my false idea about MYSELF.

LOL... well all that is what I feel to be true about yielding and becoming "invisible". We literally drop all sense of identity that energises a dense form. And really, no identity that we can ever hold about ourselves truly defines us, ultimately. There is only I AM... not I AM *this* or *that*. The I AM is undefined, it is the unmanifested, pure potential.

_happydanc

How's THAT for early morning philsophy, eh? YAWN... where's my coffee??

P.S. Hey I love your avatar by the way. From one Phoenix to another... you go, firebird, you go!

[NewPhoenix]

Hi Johnathan,

You have an interesting perspective that's pretty rare, I'm liking you more and more.

Why thank you, that's very nice. :heybaby: (I just love these smilies... I think I'm becoming addicted!)

Wudan Kung-fu deals with the spiritual aspects of self defense you might be referring to- according to the Wudan school, an attack is to be contacted lightly in order to sense it's intensity and direction and then guided away as you use this to throw the opponent off balance and away from you. This is the meaning of the Water Dragon: trancending physical limitations. Easier said than done.:hahugh:

Wudan.. Wudan... isn't that the the form of Kung-fu depicted in the movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"? Excellent movie, by the way, one of my favorites!

The part about making light contact with the attack in order to sense its intensity and direction... I think that's a great approach and can be applied in different settings. I'm thinking now of mental/emotional energy exchanges. It's that balance of recognizing the energy intent for practical purposes, and instead of reacting to it (from weakness), to yield and work with the flow, resulting in least harm to all involved. Basically the only harm would come from the person who directs the attack to begin with, as their own energy force works to unbalance them.

Yes I agree about it being easier said than done. That's the challenge that I face daily, just in the course of my life... to apply the theory that I know in my heart to be true. I've succeeded enough to know that it really can work in practice. There are many times I still forget, and it only goes to show me how much I'm still identified with fixed concepts of myself, those that cause me to react and prevent me from easily stepping aside and yielding. Mastery takes practice, isn't that so? :)

I've found in my travels most of these Eastern concepts spring from a single source, which I've been meaning to brush up on:

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html (http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html)

Musashi also might be interesting for you as well:

http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ (http://www.samurai.com/5rings/)

Thank you for those links, they sound very interesting and I'll check them out today. I'm lucky in that my job gives me lots of free time to read, write, surf the internet, and play Mahjong to my heart's content. hehehe

So you're a man of the world, huh Johnathan? Where have you traveled? I've been to several countries myself and I find different cultures fascinating.

I don't buy into all the "shielding" business myself- negative energy makes me physically ill when I encounter it even briefly. If I'm healthy at the time I'm attacked I can absorb and throw back which is equivalent to hitting a major league pitcher's fastball- it kinda stings the hands and you could break a wrist if you're not careful. This to me is neither optimal, nor desirable, but sometimes the only way.

I find it makes most sense to do whatever we have to do to take care of ourselves. I may hold certain theories, but I find I'm not always able to apply them fully... so I do whatever I can in the moment. Then when the moment passes and I'm feeling peaceful again, I tend to examine what took place, learn from it, and then try again another time. I'm a Virgo... a very practical creature. :kooky:

[NewPhoenix]

One suggestion that was made in the Bunker was to recognize the "foreign" emotions and change them to something more positive and happy, sending them back to the person who emitted them - we do tend to notice the icky and unhappy emotions more often, eh? Not shoving the changed energies back into their faces of course, but just changing the energy to something better. If the person chooses to accept the energy back that's great, but if they don't at least there isn't this glob of icky-ness stuck to our auras or left in a puddle for others to walk into. :hahugh:

Hi Lunacie,

This suggestion that you mention makes me think of Intent. And I really feel that Intent is key. If our intention is to extend peace and love, then that is what is contributed to the collective energy. I'm not so sure we can actually change someone else's energy or the emotions that extend from them, but we can at least help to neutralize them by not reacting and thus contributing more fuel for the fire. And perhaps by remaining a source of peace and love we can offer someone else an opportunity to choose the same.

Yeah I like that... "at least there isn't this glob of icky-ness stuck to our auras or left in a puddle for others to walk into" lolol!

I think you're right... we do tend to recognize the negative stuff more. But whether the emotions that pass by are positive or negative, I find it helps to recognize that they're just emotions and to simply let them pass. If we make the "positive" ones meaningful, then we make them all meaningful, as all emotions coexist on the same level... and if we identify with that level then we can't pick and choose what we'll experience out of the mix.

[Selenite]

To both Lunacie and NewPhoenix--that sounds a lot like something I've been doing for a while at work. A lot of the people working there (it's a fast food place, so there's lots of stress and conflicting personalities on busy days) didn't get along and usually started getting into arguments and all that drama. I really liked some of the people there but it was getting to be too much after a while, you know? The same few people bickering each night, everyone getting touchy and snappy, etc. I started coming up with a technique that sounds a lot like what you're talking about that helped smooth things over a bit, before work I would put on some music and meditate a bit. I don't know how exactly to word this but I would almost turn my empathy into a beacon, projecting positivity and humor outward. Then at work I'd keep it up, and joke around with my coworkers, keep an eye on emotions, etc. lol What inspired me to try it in the first place is I noticed that either there were a few natural empaths there in the first place or non-empaths are pretty perceptive about emotions too... because a few people bickering could really ruin the mood of the whole evening. It just seemed like if the negativity could be "projected" so easily then it wouldn't hurt to see if I could do the same with something a little more positive.

And relative to the topic, I do think that there is a link between mental disorders and various energy techniques and sensitivities. Our current understanding of the mind and all its capabilities is so limited, so many things are unknown, many disorders seem to have common threads... To a psychologist or psychiatrist empathy would seem like seasonal affective disorder, depression, bipolar disorder, anxiety,ADHD, hormones, a lack of chocolate, anything! (ok, maybe not the last one) It's up to the individual to take a good look at how much their life is being affected by it, and how well they can cope day-to-day.

[Lunacie]

Well I know I get cranky when I don't get enough chocolate! :lol:

I do think some people have bad attitudes or are simply unhappy and they do broadcast that kind of energy, while other people have good attitudes and are simply happier about life in general and they do broadcast that kind of energy as well. I don't see how there could be anything bad about what you've tried to do. :thumbsup: I've done it myself and find it works awfully well with my grandchildren.

I've been thinking about the connection between all these things. It seems that something like supersensitivity would be a neurological issue - dealing with the nervous system. So if that's how we sense things like colors and tastes and textures wouldn't it makes sense that it's also how we feel things with our other senses... energies like emotions?

All but those who are completely blind can sense the difference between a bright light and a dim light, between a gentle caress and a shove or slap, between food that is salty or sweet. So is the reason that not everyone is aware of those emotions - or is unable to distinguish between their own emotions and those of others - because they have been told that it's all in their imagination? Or because they learn to stop paying attention because they've been told that they're "just too sensitive" like that's a bad thing?


Now, the borderline folks, the bipolar folks, the ADHD and OCD folks, we're told those are people whose brain synapses fire differently, that the "wiring" in their brains is different. Are those snyapses, that wiring, also nerves? If so, then I would say there must be a connection, that they are related in some way.

[Johnathan Brisby]

Hi Johnathan,



Why thank you, that's very nice. :heybaby: (I just love these smilies... I think I'm becoming addicted!)



Wudan.. Wudan... isn't that the the form of Kung-fu depicted in the movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"? Excellent movie, by the way, one of my favorites!

The very same- it's all Taoism

I'm thinking now of mental/emotional energy exchanges. It's that balance of recognizing the energy intent for practical purposes, and instead of reacting to it (from weakness), to yield and work with the flow, resulting in least harm to all involved.

Exactly- I've found that working with a form of meditation focusing on energy rising up my spine and back down to be extremely helpful, not only for raising my own energy, but becoming more comfortable with it through feel. You can also experience the bliss state through such meditation- the key is to un-ground yourself by crossing your ankles and encircling your thumb and middle fingers forming a chain-link with both hands(the finger links should not touch, but circle through each other).

You will feel the energy pump and flow through you-good energy-centered in the lower back area- this is closing your energy circuit to the outside- you can actually derive orgasmic sensations from this type of meditation all over your body, and it can be done in a chair or even walking when you become familiar with the feel of it. Of course this should be done in the right state of mind. If it's done with someone you feel a bond or connection with in the room it can feel really good.

Yes I agree about it being easier said than done. That's the challenge that I face daily, just in the course of my life... to apply the theory that I know in my heart to be true. I've succeeded enough to know that it really can work in practice. There are many times I still forget, and it only goes to show me how much I'm still identified with fixed concepts of myself, those that cause me to react and prevent me from easily stepping aside and yielding. Mastery takes practice, isn't that so? :)

Yes, the thing is these aren't easy concepts to grasp or decribe- and as Yoda tells Luke: "you must unlearn what you have learned" Like I said earlier it's all Taoist, all of it. Taoism is a nature-based belief sytem, and that first link I gave you has the entire Tao Te Ching- from which it all comes.

Thank you for those links, they sound very interesting and I'll check them out today. I'm lucky in that my job gives me lots of free time to read, write, surf the internet, and play Mahjong to my heart's content. hehehe

Heres another one: http://www.chiflow.com/html/gas_kungfu.htm (http://www.chiflow.com/html/gas_kungfu.htm)
These guys can explain better than I can.

So you're a man of the world, huh Johnathan? Where have you traveled? I've been to several countries myself and I find different cultures fascinating.

I didn't mean to mislead, I was speaking metaphorically- and in regard to spiritual street-smarts... but now that you mention it: England, Ireland, Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and all over the U.S. I didn't exactly see alot of some of those places- but I was there...



I find it makes most sense to do whatever we have to do to take care of ourselves. I may hold certain theories, but I find I'm not always able to apply them fully... so I do whatever I can in the moment. Then when the moment passes and I'm feeling peaceful again, I tend to examine what took place, learn from it, and then try again another time. I'm a Virgo... a very practical creature. :kooky:

I'm a Virgo with an Aries moon so when I'm pushed I'm an irrational, passionate lunatic- the mix doesn't take well at times, I might be an experimental prototype unfit for mass production

:hahugh: Peace :hahugh:

[NewPhoenix]

Hi Johnathan,

I haven't studied Tao specifically, but I get the meaning. As it says here:

The tao that can be described
is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be spoken
is not the eternal Name.

This is it in a nutshell, and a great pointer as well. The truth can only be pointed to at best, it can never be described in words.

You will feel the energy pump and flow through you-good energy-centered in the lower back area- this is closing your energy circuit to the outside- you can actually derive orgasmic sensations from this type of meditation all over your body, and it can be done in a chair or even walking when you become familiar with the feel of it. Of course this should be done in the right state of mind. If it's done with someone you feel a bond or connection with in the room it can feel really good.
Sounds yummy! :)

Taoism is a nature-based belief sytem, and that first link I gave you has the entire Tao Te Ching- from which it all comes.

Thank you for that link... I may read some more of it from time to time as I find it interesting, but it speaks of what I already know to be true.

I like this part from the martial arts link you sent:

"The internal martial artist trains the body in precision as well, but reaches a point where stillness in movement is achieved. In other words, pursuing the idea that less, or even nothing, can be more. That losing or yielding (not giving up) can overcome."

I can see how this applies in non-physical (martial arts) terms. This speaks of the truth in general... to realize stillness within, in the midst of outer movement. It is the undoing (like our friend Yoda so wisely puts it) of the belief that the world of form is everything and recognizing that what we always considered to be nothing is actually EVERYTHING. It is found in the silence, in the stillness.

I didn't mean to mislead, I was speaking metaphorically- and in regard to spiritual street-smarts... but now that you mention it: England, Ireland, Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and all over the U.S. I didn't exactly see alot of some of those places- but I was there...Wow you have been around. How did you like Italy, by the way? I just love Italy... the northern part (Milan) especially. I'm Russian, by the way... immigrated here from Ukraine when I was a kid.

I'm a Virgo with an Aries moon so when I'm pushed I'm an irrational, passionate lunatic- the mix doesn't take well at times, I might be an experimental prototype unfit for mass productionNah, you're not all that rare. I'm a double Virgo (sun & moon) with an Aries ascendant. lol! Just had my chart read in the Astrology section... pretty cool to see other's perspectives. I've been studying it awhile, but enjoy the interpretations of others. As far as lunatic goes... take my Aries ascendant, with it's ruler Mars in Leo, wide conjunction to my sun, and mix that up with my stellium of Moon/Mercury/Pluto all conjunct in Virgo, plus widely conjuncting Uranus. If that doesn't tire you out, throw in a grand square of Saturn/Mars/Neptune/NorthNode... and VOILA!!! Me. I'm the grand dame of Lunatic! Moahahaha!!! (beneath a meek exterior that is).. hehe

[Johnathan Brisby]

Hi Johnathan,

I haven't studied Tao specifically, but I get the meaning. As it says here:

The tao that can be described
is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be spoken
is not the eternal Name.

This is it in a nutshell, and a great pointer as well. The truth can only be pointed to at best, it can never be described in words.

Most if not all of the eastern concepts you're already familiar with spring from the tao- you'll find you're not only already familiar with alot of it on an intellectual level- you'll take to it on an instinctual and intuitive level due to it's natural characteristics. Musashi is also very deep, but written from a Japanese Zen perspective- same concepts though. Yeah, what was that Berlin song? "No more words" :hahugh:


Sounds yummy! :)

Yeah, it's yummy alright. You can feel the surge right away as soon as you close the circuit if you're already familiar with the feel of energy. What I actually told you was a simplified explanation of the tantric/kundalini concept of energy. However, according to taoist alchemy the energy flows up from the lower back, through the spine, goes up the back of the head and over, then comes back passing through the third eye an down through the breastbone running through the tummy area and circles back creating a loop. I've found this to be more accurate from experience, although the tantric/kundalini lotus-bloom of the heart is a very real experience.:hahugh:



Thank you for that link... I may read some more of it from time to time as I find it interesting, but it speaks of what I already know to be true.

I like this part from the martial arts link you sent:

"The internal martial artist trains the body in precision as well, but reaches a point where stillness in movement is achieved. In other words, pursuing the idea that less, or even nothing, can be more. That losing or yielding (not giving up) can overcome."

I can see how this applies in non-physical (martial arts) terms. This speaks of the truth in general... to realize stillness within, in the midst of outer movement. It is the undoing (like our friend Yoda so wisely puts it) of the belief that the world of form is everything and recognizing that what we always considered to be nothing is actually EVERYTHING. It is found in the silence, in the stillness.

Glad you liked it, here's one dealing specifically with what you were concerned with- energy itself: http://here-and-now.org/VSI/Articles/AppsMed/appInternal.htm ...in fact I found this one to be pretty eye-opening, I hope you like it:hahugh:

Wow you have been around. How did you like Italy, by the way? I just love Italy... the northern part (Milan) especially. I'm Russian, by the way... immigrated here from Ukraine when I was a kid.

All I saw was a town in Sicily, I've always wanted to visit the rest of it but these are scary times. Never been to Russia, I've heard the girls are pretty though...:hahugh:

Nah, you're not all that rare. I'm a double Virgo (sun & moon) with an Aries ascendant. lol! Just had my chart read in the Astrology section... pretty cool to see other's perspectives. I've been studying it awhile, but enjoy the interpretations of others. As far as lunatic goes... take my Aries ascendant, with it's ruler Mars in Leo, wide conjunction to my sun, and mix that up with my stellium of Moon/Mercury/Pluto all conjunct in Virgo, plus widely conjuncting Uranus. If that doesn't tire you out, throw in a grand square of Saturn/Mars/Neptune/NorthNode... and VOILA!!! Me. I'm the grand dame of Lunatic! Moahahaha!!! (beneath a meek exterior that is).. hehe

Your knowledge of astrology is so far above my head right now I actually feel stupid reading that. Talk to you soon?:hahugh:

[2steps]

I believe I am an empath and suffered with depression on and off for about 13 years. Another post on here made me think about mental illness and psychical abilities and I feel that maybe the 2 interact, playing of each other. My empath came out so much more after my daughter was born and hen she was abour 2years old I had a very bad bout of deppression.

my daughter is unbelievably like me. i hope that in finding out about me I will also be able to help her nd make her life better than mine n this respect

[Pesha]

I have noticed of late that I am experiencing a deper depression and am feeling everything more acutely. This does trouble me. Prehaps I need a period of shut down.

[Johnathan Brisby]

I believe I am an empath and suffered with depression on and off for about 13 years. Another post on here made me think about mental illness and psychical abilities and I feel that maybe the 2 interact, playing of each other. My empath came out so much more after my daughter was born and hen she was abour 2years old I had a very bad bout of deppression.

my daughter is unbelievably like me. i hope that in finding out about me I will also be able to help her nd make her life better than mine n this respect

your heart opened up to its full capacity

[2steps]

do I need to do anything about that? or because of it?

[darkchild]

This is a very interesting thread. I have never been diagnosed with a mental disorder, but I do have huge mood swings, usually after coming into contact with someone who is experiencing or has recently experienced a traumatic event or is on an emotional rollercoaster themselves. I am a hermit by nature and tend to avoid the public at large. I definitely have to discharge negative energy on a regular basis or I feel like I am going crazy. :)

Dawn

[Johnathan Brisby]

do I need to do anything about that? or because of it?

no, you cant-- its the burning bush, the flame that never burns

your love for your daughter made your heart grow- and what some call the "holy spirit" began to flow through you- you are her instrument now, your compassion for others has led you to true power

[Bethra]

Not exactly a mental disorder but still relative I feel. I was diagnosed with MS just before Christmas. Being an empath I do tend to keep my own emotions very much under lock and key and have long lived more in my head than in outward expression. I can't help but wonder, since there are often physical manifestations of mental problems, how much of this went towards aggravating my own problems. You hear much talk of people holding negative energies inside themselves and not letting them go who develop toxins and tumors in related areas of their body. I don't see why being an empath couldn't also help to trap stuff in there which really needs to be let go of. Over the years you trap more and more till on day boom you wake up to find you have something nasty growing in there. :|

[Johnathan Brisby]

Not exactly a mental disorder but still relative I feel. I was diagnosed with MS just before Christmas. Being an empath I do tend to keep my own emotions very much under lock and key and have long lived more in my head than in outward expression. I can't help but wonder, since there are often physical manifestations of mental problems, how much of this went towards aggravating my own problems. You hear much talk of people holding negative energies inside themselves and not letting them go who develop toxins and tumors in related areas of their body. I don't see why being an empath couldn't also help to trap stuff in there which really needs to be let go of. Over the years you trap more and more till on day boom you wake up to find you have something nasty growing in there. :|

the weaker you are the more they attack you:idea:

[plumedsnake]

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html (http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html)


which in turn was derived from the I Ching. Worth a read

[plumedsnake]

I've found in my travels most of these Eastern concepts spring from a single source, which I've been meaning to brush up on:

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html (http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html)


which in turn was derived from the I Ching. Worth a read

[Johnathan Brisby]

which in turn was derived from the I Ching. Worth a read

the i ching is more of a rune system- similar to tarot

[plumedsnake]

the i ching is more of a rune system- similar to tarot

I understand it different. I've studied tarot and iching and they are not similar. Although all things are connected. But the iching is probably the oldest extant book in the world and Taoism and Confucianism is accepted to be derived from it.

[Johnathan Brisby]

I understand it different. I've studied tarot and iching and they are not similar. Although all things are connected. But the iching is probably the oldest extant book in the world and Taoism and Confucianism is accepted to be derived from it.


{I understand it different}-- very taoist answer:hahugh:

could you provide a link on the i ching that reflects your view? im interested, but i cant find anything very informative- and specifically how is tarot "not similar"?

ive found that all things are connected, indeed:hahugh:

[Lunacie]

Not exactly a mental disorder but still relative I feel. I was diagnosed with MS just before Christmas. Being an empath I do tend to keep my own emotions very much under lock and key and have long lived more in my head than in outward expression. I can't help but wonder, since there are often physical manifestations of mental problems, how much of this went towards aggravating my own problems. You hear much talk of people holding negative energies inside themselves and not letting them go who develop toxins and tumors in related areas of their body. I don't see why being an empath couldn't also help to trap stuff in there which really needs to be let go of. Over the years you trap more and more till on day boom you wake up to find you have something nasty growing in there. :|

I've been saying for a couple of years now that shielding and blocking energies isn't the best way to handle empathy. Learning to recognize our own energies so that we're aware when we're feeling something and can take the appropriate steps necessary - and so that we'll be aware when we pick up something from someone else and can sympathize with that person without trying to carry their burden for them. I think learning to ground or dissipate the energies is much more beneficial to our overall health than trying to keep ourselves from feeling anything at all.

[plumedsnake]

{I understand it different}-- very taoist answer:hahugh:

could you provide a link on the i ching that reflects your view? im interested, but i cant find anything very informative- and specifically how is tarot "not similar"?

ive found that all things are connected, indeed:hahugh:

Well the best thing to do is to get a copy of the Iching and read it and use it to make divinations. It is based on the idea that energy moves in cycles. So imagine travelling in a circle. Half the time you are moving up in the circle. When you get to a critical point, the pinnacle, you start to move down the circle, until you get to the nadir and then you revert to moving up again. These opposing movements up and down are actually part of the one same movement. The movement of the cycle. So an advancing movement is called Yang denoted by a single line and a retreating movement is called yin denoted by a broken line.
There are also 6 places, or faculties that contribute to any event. Each of these faculties can be anywhere in the cycle. ON the uppward movement or the downward movement.
When a movement gets to a critical point then it is denoted by what is called a changing line. IN other words it is about to start moving in the opposite direction.
It is not advisable to follow every faculty that influences an event. Mostly we are advised to follow the 2nd line and the 5th line.
TAke the first hexagram for instance. Say you inquire about changing jobs and the first hexagram emerges. This is yang in all six places. That means that everything is pushing you towards changing jobs. Yet when you read the first line, it says 'hidden dragon; do not act'. In other words you are advised not to act under the influence of this line. Apart from the 2nd and 5th lines all the other lines are not ideal. the 2nd and 5th lines would be what some would call the natural path while the 1st and 3rd are more contrived. Although everything is pushing in one direction it is still important to wait for the natural flow rather than the contrived flow before taking action. How do we tell the natural from the contrived? We need to have knowledge of the energies.

say the first line has reached it's limit and is about to change from yang to yin, then the hexagram goes from being the first hexagram to the 44th hexagram. IN the 44th all the lines are yang apart from the first which is yin. This means that in the situation there is an influence that is acting against the aims, eg changing jobs. The iching teaches how to limit the influence of this yin line and the way to do it is not by blocking it violently. A certain amount of indulgence is advised but we do not allow it to have any bearing on things that happen.

This is a big subject but it is well worth your reading and probing into it. :cheers:

[Bethra]

the weaker you are the more they attack you:idea:

I'm not sure what you mean here sorry. Personally I would say the more empathic you are the more likely you are to store the muck and rubbish.

Aside from my MS I learnt long ago to bury my own emotions, it's to personal to go into here but a way down the line of my life I was in many situations where it simply wasn't safe to feel and so I buried those feelings. Negative emotions are not good for the mind, they don't belong there. If you bottle them up they bread and grow. It is easily possible to create your own nightmare with this sort of thing.

For disorders of the mind there is no better medicine than a positive mentality. This also goes for conditions of the mind including MS. With MS it is vital that you don't store up the negative thoughts. Anger and the like makes the brain chemistry run a bit faster, this works to heat the brain up, before you know it you've got inflammation on the brain and in another relapse state. If just one simple emotion like anger can have such a devastating effect then being an empath would heighten you're exposure to such emotions. If you're predisposed to develope MS and an empath this would be a bad thing also.

As Lunacie said shielding doesn't always work sometimes stuff seeps in and out. For me grounding never worked either. I just don't have the time to stop and do that all the time. For me all that works to keep the muck from building up is to give out positive energy all the time. I avoid getting into situations which might lead me into contact with people who want to drain my energy and instead try to mix with people who equally want to give out positive energy.

[Philosophia]

As an empath and a person who "suffers" from severe depression, I shield because it does help keep me sane. For me, I'm like a sponge, I soak up nearly everything and it drives me insane. With my depression, the emotions get increased and I can't handle it. Shielding works to keep it at a minimum level. It doesn't stop me from feeling but it does lower the volume of emotions that I receive. Grounding gets rid of the crap that gets through at a high intensity. Using the sponge analogy, I squeeze it so I can get rid of the majority of emotions that gets "stuck".
Anyway, this is what I do. I'm up for any suggestions to better this.

[Lunacie]

Yes, I didn't make it clear that grounding or getting rid of the other-personal stuff (both negative and positive and in-between ~ everything that doesn't belong to us) is very helpful. Grounding it is one way to release it - Mother Earth can take the energy in any form and transform it just as She transforms dead plant and animal life into nutrients for new growth.

One way to do that is to let it flow out your root chakra while drawing in renewing energy from the universe through your crown chakra (because nature abhors a vacuum). I attended a lecture once at a metaphysical faire where it was suggested that you reach in with your psychic hand and pull the gunk out of your heart chakra, roll it into a ball, and slam dunk it back to Mother Earth. One of my favorite methods is to visualize white light from the universe flowing over me like a cleansing shower and washing away all the gunk which is making me feel icky and blocking my own natural healing energies.

It's just as helpful to release our own feelings when they are blocking our natural healing energies and a good way to learn to tell the difference between what we're feeling personally and what we're picking up from others.

[Johnathan Brisby]

I'm not sure what you mean here sorry. Personally I would say the more empathic you are the more likely you are to store the muck and rubbish.

Aside from my MS I learnt long ago to bury my own emotions, it's to personal to go into here but a way down the line of my life I was in many situations where it simply wasn't safe to feel and so I buried those feelings. Negative emotions are not good for the mind, they don't belong there. If you bottle them up they bread and grow. It is easily possible to create your own nightmare with this sort of thing.

For disorders of the mind there is no better medicine than a positive mentality. This also goes for conditions of the mind including MS. With MS it is vital that you don't store up the negative thoughts. Anger and the like makes the brain chemistry run a bit faster, this works to heat the brain up, before you know it you've got inflammation on the brain and in another relapse state. If just one simple emotion like anger can have such a devastating effect then being an empath would heighten you're exposure to such emotions. If you're predisposed to develope MS and an empath this would be a bad thing also.

As Lunacie said shielding doesn't always work sometimes stuff seeps in and out. For me grounding never worked either. I just don't have the time to stop and do that all the time. For me all that works to keep the muck from building up is to give out positive energy all the time. I avoid getting into situations which might lead me into contact with people who want to drain my energy and instead try to mix with people who equally want to give out positive energy.


i suppress my emotions because other sensitives can feel them, and so can others on a much less conscious level-- im a transmitter as well as a reciever

what i was trying to say was that when energy vampires have already drained you- the weaker, scavenger-type vampires move in(the ones who would normally be intimidated by your internal glow

[Lunacie]

I used to try to suppress my emotions because I felt guilty for having them or because I was afraid to feel them. I say "try" because the more I'd shove them down on top of the other emotions that were already being suppressed the more resistance they'd give ~ until they'd erupt from the pressure. Often erupting in at an inappropriate time or in an inappropriate manner.

I think it's better to acknowledge that you're feeling the emotions and recognize the reason you're feeling them, and then channel them into a
creative activity (painting, journaling, whittling or carving, working with clay, sewing, etc) or a physical activity (walking or jogging, riding a bike, swimming, chopping wood, gardening, cleaning, etc). Even simply grounding them after recognizing and acknowledging them is healthier than suppressing them.

[Johnathan Brisby]

Well the best thing to do is to get a copy of the Iching and read it and use it to make divinations. It is based on the idea that energy moves in cycles. So imagine travelling in a circle. Half the time you are moving up in the circle. When you get to a critical point, the pinnacle, you start to move down the circle, until you get to the nadir and then you revert to moving up again. These opposing movements up and down are actually part of the one same movement. The movement of the cycle. So an advancing movement is called Yang denoted by a single line and a retreating movement is called yin denoted by a broken line.
There are also 6 places, or faculties that contribute to any event. Each of these faculties can be anywhere in the cycle. ON the uppward movement or the downward movement.
When a movement gets to a critical point then it is denoted by what is called a changing line. IN other words it is about to start moving in the opposite direction.
It is not advisable to follow every faculty that influences an event. Mostly we are advised to follow the 2nd line and the 5th line.
TAke the first hexagram for instance. Say you inquire about changing jobs and the first hexagram emerges. This is yang in all six places. That means that everything is pushing you towards changing jobs. Yet when you read the first line, it says 'hidden dragon; do not act'. In other words you are advised not to act under the influence of this line. Apart from the 2nd and 5th lines all the other lines are not ideal. the 2nd and 5th lines would be what some would call the natural path while the 1st and 3rd are more contrived. Although everything is pushing in one direction it is still important to wait for the natural flow rather than the contrived flow before taking action. How do we tell the natural from the contrived? We need to have knowledge of the energies.

say the first line has reached it's limit and is about to change from yang to yin, then the hexagram goes from being the first hexagram to the 44th hexagram. IN the 44th all the lines are yang apart from the first which is yin. This means that in the situation there is an influence that is acting against the aims, eg changing jobs. The iching teaches how to limit the influence of this yin line and the way to do it is not by blocking it violently. A certain amount of indulgence is advised but we do not allow it to have any bearing on things that happen.

This is a big subject but it is well worth your reading and probing into it. :cheers:

thanks for the information, its actually pretty fascinating-- just out of curiosity, who taught you about all of this, or i should say: how did you learn all this?

[plumedsnake]

thanks for the information, its actually pretty fascinating-- just out of curiosity, who taught you about all of this, or i should say: how did you learn all this?

I've had teachers, and still do, who have pointed out the way to me to where I could come into contact with the real teachers. I've being studying hermetic philosophy for many years now and the flesh and blood teachers I've had have been equivocal in stating the the real instruction comes not from flesh and blood teachers but from Spiritual guides.

No philosopher has ever openly revealed this Secret Fire, and this powerful agent, which works all the wonders of the Art: he who shall not understand it, and not know how to distinguish it by the characters whereby it is described, ought to make a stand here, and pray to God to make it clear to him; for the knowledge of this great Secret is rather a gift of Heaven, than a Light acquired by the natural force of reasoning; let him, nevertheless, read the writings of the philosophers; let him meditate; and, above all, let him pray: there is no difficulty which may not in the end be made clear by Work, Meditation, and Prayer.

This quote comes from here:http://levity.com/alchemy/eudoxus.html

The Idea is that there is a limit to what you can learn from a fellow man and the real instruction comes from Meditation and prayer. IN a christian context the aspirant is taught to seek the guidance of the holy spirit. In a chinese context as inTAoism etc (check out the secret of the Golden Flower) it is taught that there are elevated masters that one has to make contact with and they will teach. This too is done through meditation.

Of course there are bits that can be taught but those are only the tip of the iceberg of the whole affair. As for me personally I've been on a steep learning curve and I still continue to climb and it seems that there's no end in sight but that's okay cos I'm actually enjoying the whole process.

I'm glad that you find this interesting because because I just totally love it.

[Johnathan Brisby]

I've had teachers, and still do, who have pointed out the way to me to where I could come into contact with the real teachers. I've being studying hermetic philosophy for many years now and the flesh and blood teachers I've had have been equivocal in stating the the real instruction comes not from flesh and blood teachers but from Spiritual guides.

No philosopher has ever openly revealed this Secret Fire, and this powerful agent, which works all the wonders of the Art: he who shall not understand it, and not know how to distinguish it by the characters whereby it is described, ought to make a stand here, and pray to God to make it clear to him; for the knowledge of this great Secret is rather a gift of Heaven, than a Light acquired by the natural force of reasoning; let him, nevertheless, read the writings of the philosophers; let him meditate; and, above all, let him pray: there is no difficulty which may not in the end be made clear by Work, Meditation, and Prayer.

This quote comes from here:http://levity.com/alchemy/eudoxus.html

The Idea is that there is a limit to what you can learn from a fellow man and the real instruction comes from Meditation and prayer. IN a christian context the aspirant is taught to seek the guidance of the holy spirit. In a chinese context as inTAoism etc (check out the secret of the Golden Flower) it is taught that there are elevated masters that one has to make contact with and they will teach. This too is done through meditation.

Of course there are bits that can be taught but those are only the tip of the iceberg of the whole affair. As for me personally I've been on a steep learning curve and I still continue to climb and it seems that there's no end in sight but that's okay cos I'm actually enjoying the whole process.

I'm glad that you find this interesting because because I just totally love it.


wow... thats a lot deeper than anyone ive talked to in a long time

check out this link: http://www.elcollie.com/st/st.html (http://www.elcollie.com/st/st.html)

i wouldnt call myself "enlightened", but i have had my "awakening"

[fireopalmuse]

I've been saying for a couple of years now that shielding and blocking energies isn't the best way to handle empathy. Learning to recognize our own energies so that we're aware when we're feeling something and can take the appropriate steps necessary - and so that we'll be aware when we pick up something from someone else and can sympathize with that person without trying to carry their burden for them. I think learning to ground or dissipate the energies is much more beneficial to our overall health than trying to keep ourselves from feeling anything at all.Hello all empaths, I am kinda at a loss for word's right now, because I think I FINALLY figured out what has been going on with me all of these years. I guess now it is time to learn how to deal with it, in an adult kind of way. :spaceman::rollingla:whatmewor wish me luck, because I'm gonna need it, badly....:abadpoker:bangyourh:achillpil:achillpil:achillpil OK, I think three chill pills are enough...8O:boquet:

[Lunacie]

Hello Fredrick, welcome to the Bunker. :wave:

This is like getting the diagnosis of bipolar eh? There is relief that now you know there really is a reason for all those feelings and you're not actually crazy, but there is also anger or regret for all those years when you just couldn't cope with ordinary life, and some worry about what you're going to do now, but for me it was mostly relief.

Anyway, check out the link in my siggie, read all the great stuff that's been posted here, and explore the internet for other info about being an Empath.


BTW, it took me a couple of moments to figure out that Fireopalmuse is really Fire Opal Muse, not Fire O Palm Use. :lol: Honestly, I like the name Fredrick better. ;)

[plumedsnake]

wow... thats a lot deeper than anyone ive talked to in a long time

check out this link: http://www.elcollie.com/st/st.html (http://www.elcollie.com/st/st.html)

i wouldnt call myself "enlightened", but i have had my "awakening"

Thanks for the weblink. I'm exploring the site and I find it really fascinating.

[fireopalmuse]

Hello Fredrick, welcome to the Bunker. :wave:

This is like getting the diagnosis of bipolar eh? There is relief that now you know there really is a reason for all those feelings and you're not actually crazy, but there is also anger or regret for all those years when you just couldn't cope with ordinary life, and some worry about what you're going to do now, but for me it was mostly relief.

Anyway, check out the link in my siggie, read all the great stuff that's been posted here, and explore the internet for other info about being an Empath.


BTW, it took me a couple of moments to figure out that Fireopalmuse is really Fire Opal Muse, not Fire O Palm Use. :lol: Honestly, I like the name Fredrick better. ;)Yes it was like getting the Bi-polar diagnoses, sort of..:awilly::stomp::stomp::durrrr:. Yep there is anger and regret, like you said, no doubt about it.. Anybody got any pointers on where to start from here?? Thank you, Lunacie for your kindness and wisdom...TIME to learn how to deal with this the Right way...Take care fellow Empath's......Wish me luck, if you want........:reading::broomride :RuNew::bangyourh :jamsessio BB

[Blue Heartd Kitty]

Ok, my two cents.

I do think that empathy & mental disorders can go hand in hand. I speak from personal experience. Empathy has been with me from childhood and the depression hit during puberty. I've since had bouts of clinical depression off & on over the years and it usually comes from empathic overload. I go into hermit mode in order to get cleared out and fully grounded again. My parents used to get seriously concerned that when I was in hermit mode, I was suicidal and it has taken much convincing on my part that it was not the case.

Also, my step father is very sensitive and has a very strong gift but due to improper parenting, it caused him to develop bi-polar tendencies. It took a lot of counseling (which I didn't get paid for) and learning how to deal with his gift that he has overcome most of the bi-polar symptoms. He still has his days but he is better equipped now to balance himself out.

There are ways to deal with empathy but you have to keep in mind to take care of yourself first. Be mindful of your environment, who & what you expose yourself to and LEARN how to clear out and ground yourself. It'll save years of theraphy.

BHK

[fireopalmuse]

Ok, my two cents.

I do think that empathy & mental disorders can go hand in hand. I speak from personal experience. Empathy has been with me from childhood and the depression hit during puberty. I've since had bouts of clinical depression off & on over the years and it usually comes from empathic overload. I go into hermit mode in order to get cleared out and fully grounded again. My parents used to get seriously concerned that when I was in hermit mode, I was suicidal and it has taken much convincing on my part that it was not the case.

Also, my step father is very sensitive and has a very strong gift but due to improper parenting, it caused him to develop bi-polar tendencies. It took a lot of counseling (which I didn't get paid for) and learning how to deal with his gift that he has overcome most of the bi-polar symptoms. He still has his days but he is better equipped now to balance himself out.

There are ways to deal with empathy but you have to keep in mind to take care of yourself first. Be mindful of your environment, who & what you expose yourself to and LEARN how to clear out and ground yourself. It'll save years of theraphy.

BHK What you said about your step father sounds VERY familiar. That is almost exactly what I think happened with me. I still sometimes blame my parents for the way I am..go figure...Seemed like they were more worried about partying, than they were parenting.. sorry Mom....R.I.P. So I just figured that was the thing to do...l am pretty sure my Mom was empathic, as is my younger, and older sisters. But nobody, that I can remember, ever said anything about empathy. My Mom, younger sister, and I knew that we had psychic abilities, but never learned how to deal with them... I wonder if I ever will...I just wish I could be "normal", so I could go to work everyday, pay the bills, keep a job..and just generally be 'happy', for once...I really don't know how well I will do at clearing out and grounding..Time will tell, I guess.. I feel like I need someone to guide me, you know?? Anyway, have a great day everybody , It's off to the psychiatrist I go.

[Blue Heartd Kitty]

F-
All things are possible. If you want to learn to deal with your abilities, you will. If you want to have a "normal" life, well, that's debatable. I take issue with the word normal. People with our kinds of gifts are never normal however it is possible to present a "normal" front to the outside world. You are fully capable of anything you want out of life and that includes holding a job & paying your bills, etc. As to being happy, happy is a choice. You can choose to be happy or sad or manic or balanced. It is easier as an empath to do so when surrounded by positive people but not impossible when also around negative people. It just takes practice discerning if the emotions you are feeling originate within you or from an outside source. Clearing out & grounding help with that.
I'm sorry if I sound preachy, I don't mean to. I'm just speaking from years of dealing with this. If you need anything, let me know. My wisdom is at your disposal.

BHK

[fireopalmuse]

F-
All things are possible. If you want to learn to deal with your abilities, you will. If you want to have a "normal" life, well, that's debatable. I take issue with the word normal. People with our kinds of gifts are never normal however it is possible to present a "normal" front to the outside world. You are fully capable of anything you want out of life and that includes holding a job & paying your bills, etc. As to being happy, happy is a choice. You can choose to be happy or sad or manic or balanced. It is easier as an empath to do so when surrounded by positive people but not impossible when also around negative people. It just takes practice discerning if the emotions you are feeling originate within you or from an outside source. Clearing out & grounding help with that.
I'm sorry if I sound preachy, I don't mean to. I'm just speaking from years of dealing with this. If you need anything, let me know. My wisdom is at your disposal.

BHK HI BHK, I just tried to reply to this post, and it was quite long, but it said I wasn't logged in ??? WTH, anyway I concur with everything you said. And I'm sure I will be seeking your wisdom, please, :fpraise: and THANK YOU very much for being so open and honest with me..:) I had so much to say in that post that now you will never see :awilly::chatty::whatmewor I will have to talk to you in a little while, OK? I need to get some painting done right now ...Brightest Blessings to you....FRED.....:yayah::broomrideIs it OK to PM you if necessary?? laters.........................:spaceman: