PDA

View Full Version : Crisis of Faith



Lunar_Dragonfly
July 25th, 2006, 03:10 PM
You have no idea how much I hate to have to post this here, especially since I am a new member and I don't want my first impression to be of someone who complains a lot. But I just need somewhere to rant other than in my blog, and since this is related to religion, I guess I could really use some advice.

I guess I should start at the beginning. This is a story regarding the two important men in my life, my dad and my boyfriend. My dad has been unemployed since I was a junior in high school, which was almost exactly four years ago. It's been hard for someone over 50 to get a job in advertising, his field, and he's had many prospects over the years but none have gone anywhere. Well recently he had a really good interview for a company in Texas, and they pretty much said that they'd like to hire him on the spot but their company rules said they had to interview at least three people. It took them forever to find two more that were even qualified, and so we've all been waiting with bated breath since then to see if my dad got it or not. The second person wasn't that good, but they ended up liking the third guy, and so it was between my dad and him who they would hire. Well they ended up hiring the other guy. Which isn't so bad in and of itself exept for the guy pretty much told my dad that he was guarenteed to be hired and that the other interviews were just formalities.

Meanwhile, my boyfriend just graduated with a masters degree in mechanical engineering. He turned down a job at Boeing because he didn't want to move to Seattle, but he was soon offered a job at Northrop Grumman that he liked a lot more, so he took it. But the job was on an airforce base and he needed a security clearance. My boyfriend is no terrorist and he's got a clean record so he figured that would be fine. He put down a deposit on an appartment and was all set to move when he found out that his security clearance had been denied. They won't tell him the reason, but the only thing that we can think of was REALLY stupid as well as easily fixed -- it was a misunderstanding more than an actual problem. Unfortunately Northrop didn't want to wait for him to fix the problem and rerun the security check so they went ahead and hired someone else.

I've read a lot of the posts on here and I know that my problems are very petty compared to some but that doesn't mean that I'm not shaken by them. They are always saying this kind of stuff, like everything happens for a reason, God must have other plans ... well I want to know, if this crap has been caused by God, then what is he thinking, fracking with our emotions like this? Why does he insist that he offer us things and then take them away at the last second "oops! nevermind!" Does he think that it's FUNNY? I'd like to think that it's just random coincidence because the only things I can think here is that either there is no God or God has a sick sense of humor and likes messing with us for His personal amusemenent, neither of which are particularly palatable options.

Another thing that scares me is that recently I've taken an interest in Asatru. But I pray to the Norse Gods for guidance and it doesn't seem that there's anything out there. And I'm so scared that what if the Christian God is real and he is punishing me for my disloyalty by messing with the people that I love? If He is the kind of God who would do that then I don't want to worship Him anyway, but that doesn't mean I'm not scared it's not possible. I guess I just don't know how to feel right now, and I wish there was Some sort of deity out there I could pray to, but at the moment, I just feel ... confused.

Any advice on the matter would be appreciated. Thanks for listening and once again I'm sorry I had to post here I just really needed someone to talk to.

Ryden
July 25th, 2006, 03:36 PM
((HUGS))

First, the Christian God does not punish you through your family by not following him, since, he doesn't force you to follow him.

I'm sorry for your folks. Severe problems are not from divine intervention, but that doesn't mean that we can't be divinely pulled back up :)

Sometimes, problems = life...no need for God to cause them.

Lunar_Dragonfly
July 25th, 2006, 03:39 PM
Thanks Ryden <3

I guess the reason I was freaking out was because my Dad keeps talking like it WAS God's "plan," and I couldn't help but thinking, "What kind of plan is that?" And then Ian talks like there was a reason for it, and both seem to think that it was something more intentional than good old fashioned bad luck.

ignescentphoenix
July 25th, 2006, 03:42 PM
((HUGS))

I'm sorry for your folks. Severe problems are not from divine intervention, but that doesn't mean that we can't be divinely pulled back up :)

Sometimes, problems = life...no need for God to cause them.


beautifully put ryden :)

Ryden
July 25th, 2006, 03:45 PM
I could see what they mean, since there have been times where I haven't gotten what I wanted, but only to have it work out in the end.

I think ya'll are just looking at it in different ways, but are oddly, both correct. You're thinking short term; which is just bad luck. They're thinkin' long term; that there has to be a reason that you will find out in the distant future why that had to happen. Both can be right at the same time.

Ryden
July 25th, 2006, 03:46 PM
beautifully put ryden :)

Thanks. Your avatar is really lovely, by the way.

Lunar_Dragonfly
July 25th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Thank you for the advice. I guess I should think more in the long term -- I have had bad things happen before that turned out to work for the better in the end, I guess I was just frustrated not because they didn't get what they wanted, but because they came close and then had it taken away. But God must know what he is doing, otherwise he wouldn't be in charge 8O I guess I just worry mostly about my dad, because he has such great faith in the Christian God and yet it seems like his life has just been a series of bad things over the past few years ... I wish the divine would cut him a break.

Ptah
July 25th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Lunar_Dragonfly,

Two things.. one, is that you need to release the old ways of thinking. You are dealing with learned responses. Free thinkers define god(ess) how they see him/her. You, on the other hand, are being influenced by others concepts of god(ess). Everything you read in the Bible or learned in church is someone elses doctrine and it is that doctrine they wish to implant into your thinking processes. Therefore, you are defining a god who punishes you for doing wrong (and sometimes for others transgressions). Is that how you view diety?

Everyone who has rejected the teachings of the church and have adopted the pagan faith (for lack of a better word) has dealt with these conflicts and emotions.

Secondly, quit blaming god(ess) for your problems. If nothing else, we have free will. We control our universe, we make those choices that put us where we are and in the circumstances we find ourselves in today. If you examine all the choices that were made you will happen on one or more choices that could have completely changed the outcome had the choices been different. God(desse)s did not make those decisions... we do.

If you can't answer the question I posed above (how do you view diety?), its because you can't or don't see him/her.Perhaps, (s)he isn't going to become manifest as long as you keep laying the blame for the failures of man on their shoulders.

Take control of your power... You'll not find diety out there, until you find a spark of it within.

Of course, I could be wrong. :bug:

Don't be a stranger around here, now that you've found the place.

Ryden
July 25th, 2006, 04:06 PM
:: politely snipped ::


Lunar_Dragonfly,
Everything you read in the Bible or learned in church is someone elses doctrine and it is that doctrine they wish to implant into your thinking processes. Therefore, you are defining a god who punishes you for doing wrong (and sometimes for others transgressions).

I've never been taught that by church and I've never got that mindset from reading the Bible...but I will recognize that that is the case for some, unfortunately.

Lunar_Dragonfly
July 25th, 2006, 04:43 PM
I'm sorry if I sounded like I am blaming the divine for my problems. Really they aren't even "my" problems, I'm just a normal American college student with a decent enough job and a good boyfriend and nothing really big to complain about *knock on wood* ... What I'm worried about is the people close to me, and their problems, and how they both seem to assert that their problems are some kind of plan of the divine, and I'm just sort of confused as to why the divine would do that. Anyway thanks everyone for your input ... and I think that the big stereotype against the Christian God is that a lot of fundamentalists especially where I live like to project the whole "WORSHIP ME OR BURN ETERNALLY ... but oh btw i love you" image which a lot of people tend to disagree with. I don't think that there's anything wrong with Christianity, but I'm not sure I'm Christian persay. I'm not going to judge you if you are, though

PS Ryden I love the little flippy hamster in your sig ... so cuute!

LostSheep
July 25th, 2006, 05:01 PM
hiya Lunar Dragonfly ... I think you're right about the perception of God and how the image of him as the big father figure who controls us and cheerfully smites us from time to time if he's bored is largely responsible for the image problem religion as a whole has. I think I'd say I'm kinda 60/40 pagan/Christian, so the way I look at God is different from the old testament kind. I prefer to see him/her/it as something that is the reason why we're here, but who doesn't have hands-on control of us .. who's given us free will and it's up to us what we do with it.

But maybe ... just maybe ... it all balances out in the end ... maybe we're not left entirely on our own and if you have a little bit of, i don't know, faith?, maybe things will work out in the end.

Ptah
July 25th, 2006, 05:24 PM
:: politely snipped ::



I've never been taught that by church and I've never got that mindset from reading the Bible...but I will recognize that that is the case for some, unfortunately.

He punished his son for other's transgressions. He punished Israel for David's transgressions... at least, acccording to the bible. I'm just saying we should look at what confines religions place on us and how those confines may or may not have shaped our concepts about the divine. :)

Ptah
July 25th, 2006, 05:44 PM
I'm sorry if I sounded like I am blaming the divine for my problems. Really they aren't even "my" problems, I'm just a normal American college student with a decent enough job and a good boyfriend and nothing really big to complain about *knock on wood* ... What I'm worried about is the people close to me, and their problems, and how they both seem to assert that their problems are some kind of plan of the divine, and I'm just sort of confused as to why the divine would do that. Anyway thanks everyone for your input ... and I think that the big stereotype against the Christian God is that a lot of fundamentalists especially where I live like to project the whole "WORSHIP ME OR BURN ETERNALLY ... but oh btw i love you" image which a lot of people tend to disagree with. I don't think that there's anything wrong with Christianity, but I'm not sure I'm Christian persay. I'm not going to judge you if you are, though

PS Ryden I love the little flippy hamster in your sig ... so cuute!

I could only go by what I read. I'm sorry if I put you on the defensive, that wasn't my intent. However, the problem is yours, it must be because you were troubled enough by it to post it in a public forum. As I pointed out, the divine doesn't do that. One is responsible for what one does. The results of ones actions are the results of ones own actions. When one gives that up to the divine they also give away their power to control the outcome... and why shouldn't they, when God(ess) is handling it? I'm afraid that just makes them the recipent or the victim, depending on the outcome.

If I am a victim, I am a victim of my own choices. If I understand that then who's to blame? God?

Ryden
July 25th, 2006, 07:40 PM
PS Ryden I love the little flippy hamster in your sig ... so cuute!

Thanks.

I can't take credit for it though, it's a MW smiley that I just had to use for my sig the moment I saw it.

Ryden
July 25th, 2006, 07:44 PM
He punished his son for other's transgressions. He punished Israel for David's transgressions... at least, acccording to the bible. I'm just saying we should look at what confines religions place on us and how those confines may or may not have shaped our concepts about the divine. :)

I see what you're saying, but God came to Earth as Jesus for the purpose of being crucified, so it wasn't punishment per say, it was more like a duty.

It's a personal belief of mine that God doesn't openly smite like in such instances through the OT because we now have the option of being reconciled through Christ...but I'm still rolling that around in my head.

I do agree that religion can confine people, that's why my philosophy is to trust Jesus over a demonination :hahugh: