Has Wiccanism become something people frown upon?

[MistOfTheSea86]

Because lately it seems so... I see and hear people getting all irritated when someone confuses them for being Wiccan, and then I hear things like "Of course I'm not WIccan, HELL NO" It's like okay... I don't know but it just seems as if people dont hold it in much respect at all anymore... Maybe I'm just crazy though... Your thoughts?

[amberlaine]

I've noticed it too. People do seem to be anti-Wiccan lately. I think it has a lot to do with the recent influx of "fluffy bunny crystal-twits" into Wicca.

[Myst]

hehe Wiccanism? Just add some syllables here and there ;) :D :smooch:

Maybe it's because if you're Pagan people assume you must be Wiccan. That does get annoying. I get tired of seeing "as Pagans, we know that harming someone is bad because..." or "we have this law of threefold return" and it's like no... maybe you do.. but I don't, nor do all Pagans.. :)

[Danustouch]

Yeah..i think that is why the attitude toward wicca might be changing. When Movies such as "The Craft" and "Blair Witch Project" came out, Wicca got a surge of young people into our folds. These young people (not all, but a majority), were running around claiming to be "Wiccan" because it was "Cool". Some of them really DID go on to study Wicca, as a religion. Others did not. And amongst those that did begin to study it as a religion, you got a bunch of the fluffybunny's...who took Silver Raven Wolf, and Scott Cunningham as their ONLY source of knowledge. They didn't bother to research further than that. And as much as Silver and Scott may have contributed to the religion, they are not without fault. What they teach is only a drop in the bucket of the vast stores of literature out there regarding Wicca. And not ALL Wiccan authors promote as "warm, fuzzy, fluffy friendly" a version of Wicca as the two of them promote.

So..there is some backlash from that, I think.

By the way...what is "Wiccanism"?????

[Chibi-Fallon]

Maybe it's just because of where I live or something but no one in my area ever thought Wicca was cool. I mean they didn't hate it or anything but it never became something to do just because we were bored. Maybe I need to move out to the suburbs or something (hey, they'll do weed because they're bored, why not a religion?).
But I hate it when people (especially Silver RavenWolf and other authors like her) assume that all teens have seen "The Craft" and that's why they want to be Wiccan or Pagan. :scream: I haven't even seen the M-Fing movie!
And what's people deal with the whole "let's bad mouth fluffy bunnies" I had a pet fluffy bunny at one point (then the dog killed it :( ). Bunnies are cool! Go call then fluffy pimples or something, no one likes them.
Anyway, people do like beating up on Wiccans. It's probably because if anyone is half-assedly interested in being Pagan they become Wiccan. I should get a sign "Beat the Wiccan $5". I could make good money that way. :D That'd be sweet.

[Theres]

and then there's the elitists who can't be the only sexy glam witches on the block anymore, so they bash it and move on.
but i too have noticed the relative scarcity of Wiccans on the so called 'Wiccan' sites these days. at least they're not admitting it.
myself, i am Wiccan, and a less fluffy person you will seldom meet!

and since the topic of SRW came up, why is it that she has become 'untouchable'? a negative opinion (and i'm not talking about mindless bashing here) cannot be voiced about the woman without the offending poster being publicly pilloryed! and let's face it folks, she is as deserving of negative feedback as anyone else is. this Empress just may have no clothes.

[Myst]

That's funny, I'm pretty sure a negative comment was just shared about SRW and no one had a problem with it. :)

If you're in the mood for more find the thread in Books about her. ;)

[Faechylde]

Chibi-Fallon,


Originally posted by Chibi-Fallon
Anyway, people do like beating up on Wiccans. It's probably because if anyone is half-assedly interested in being Pagan they become Wiccan. I should get a sign "Beat the Wiccan $5". I could make good money that way. :D That'd be sweet. [/B]

My only question for you is do you consider yourself Wiccan?

BB!

[Danustouch]

hehehe...i'd gladly bash SRW...but I was trying to be nice. She's certainly got her good points..but.....

My main problem has always been with the fact that SOME people pick up a copy of "To Ride a Silver Broomstick", and a Copy of Scot Cunninghams "Wicca:Guide to solitary practioner"...and say.."Okay. I've read these. Now I'm Wiccan. I don't even have to look at another book in my life. THey've taught me everything I need to know about Wicca. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that SRW and Scott know everything there is to know about Wicca..and that everything they say is 100% absolutely true, and basically..they are my new bible". THAT I have a problem with. In other words..the people who "STOP" Learning at all the fluffy stuff. Fluffy stuff has it's time and it's place in developement, but if you STAY there, at that level, and do not challenge yourself, and continue your search for knowledge, and whats WORSE, refute HISTORICAL evidence, because SRW or Scott Cunningham said something differen't....well....that i have a HUGE problem with. Pant * Pant * Pant* okay..done ranting. Anyway..that's just me, just something I wanted to get off my chest..I'm done...shoot me now....thanks.

[Danustouch]

And..incidentally..I AM wiccan...and i didn't go into it half assedly. I've never been a half assed pagan, thanks. And I've met plenty of half assed people of all pantheon's/paths..NOT just Wiccan.

Looks around for her baseball bat.........:flamer: :flamer: :meanface: :meanface: :razz: :razz: :scream: :scream: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :smash: :smash: :smash:

ok...i think i feel better now.

[Faechylde]

I have been noticing that people are so willing to call/label themselves Pagan but have a problem calling/labeling themselves Wiccan. Why is this? I am Wiccan and I am proud to admit it, even if it upsets and alienates those who think I am not a true pagan or whatever people think who have something against Wicca. I think that this is the branch of Paganism that fits my beliefs and I should not be afraid to call it Wicca for fear of being shot down by all those opposed to it.

Sorry about that little rant. I was on aol message boards and had a Christian post stuff about how he is "happy for all the magik people" and thanks us because his wife is Wiccan and because of all of us and our Pagan religion that he will get custody of his kids in the divorce.

BB.

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by Danustouch
And..incidentally..I AM wiccan...and i didn't go into it half assedly. I've never been a half assed pagan, thanks. And I've met plenty of half assed people of all pantheon's/paths..NOT just Wiccan.

Looks around for her baseball bat.........:flamer: :flamer: :meanface: :meanface: :razz: :razz: :scream: :scream: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :smash: :smash: :smash:

ok...i think i feel better now.

First off, I didn't imply that you did go inot it half assedly, as I am Wiccan and I did not do that. It confused me so I asked. Sorry if I misled you to think I was saying that you did.

BB!

[Danustouch]

Ummmmmmm..i wasn't referring to your post. I was referring to Chibhi's. And I'm aware she didn't point fingers, to mean ME...however... I interpreted her post to be saying that wiccans enter into wicca because they are half assed pagans, and i kinda took exception to that ;)

[Drisel]

When I started out I used to call myself eclectic because I was still studying alot of different religions before I was going to put myself under any specific label. Well it's been awhile and unlike many I have found that Wicca is the religion for me. I know I'm not popular anymore but hey that wasn't the reason I decided on this path anyway. I'm still learning because well I'm still alive. I hope to never stop in the learning catagory. That and because you guys are so fun are the main reason that I joined these boards. It is nice to come to a place where you can share experiences and find people who can help you grow in your out looks on life.

And yes being Wiccan I do get alot of flack anytime I take the less popular route and stray from the crowd. Oh well there are worse things in life than being called a fluffy. Believe me I've experienced them.

:)

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by Danustouch
Ummmmmmm..i wasn't referring to your post. I was referring to Chibhi's. And I'm aware she didn't point fingers, to mean ME...however... I interpreted her post to be saying that wiccans enter into wicca because they are half assed pagans, and i kinda took exception to that ;)


Ooooppsss. Sorry. I reread them and I realized I read the wrong name and got all confused. That's what I get for being awake all night. <wiping cobwebs off of brain> ...I meant to say that I am Wiccan and did not go into it half assed. I meant to quote her but I am not an experienced poster so I goofed. >.<

Incidentally I agree with you totally. Sorry if I came off as attacking you or anyone else.

BB

[Danustouch]

No problemo ;)

[Theres]

and Chibi...
just so you know, i am a fully assed Pagan!

[Danustouch]

hehehe Greenman...

(me looks at her own butt...)...yep. Looks like I'm a fully assed pagan too. (mumbles about bubblebutts).

[Faechylde]

Cool. I like these boards best and don't want to ruffle any feathers. Unless my little friend form the AOL boards wants to come and speak about the Bible being God's word and all...I get a little touchy from time to time. I guess it takes a little time to unbitch when someone who doesn't know our religion attacks it. = P

BB!

[Myst]

I don't think the intention was to suggest that all (or most) Wiccans come to Paganism "half assed", but that a lot of people who *do* come to it for not-so-good reasons immediately call themselves Wiccan - whether because they aren't smart enough to realize there's a different or because it seems everyone wants to label themself Wiccan.

And that wasn't directed at anyone or about anyone; sometimes a statement is just a statement I swear :)

What I can't understand, on the other hand, is why so many people want to know if they can call themselves Wiccan - "is this Wiccan, can I do this and be Wiccan, am I Wiccan?". Some people get sooo hung up on labels, and I find even if I ask why they think of themselves as Wiccan they get upset as though I'm questioning the validity of their religion. Believe whatever you want, I just hope people sit down and think about their beliefs and others and how they fit together! :)

[Faechylde]

Myst, I understand what you're saying. I think Wicca is the most popular with those who don't want to bother doing any research about the religion. Maybe that is for those who see shows like Charmed or movies like the Craft and think it is cool. When any tv show or movie is about Pagans, they do tend to overuse the term Wicca. Did anyone see the episode of JAG where it addressed "Wiccans in the military"?

Anyway, those who call themselves Wiccan to be cool or do it to rebel, make those of us who have done the research and have knowingly chosen Wicca as our path look bad.

That's just my two cents anyway. = )

[MasterMoon]

Why are people so concerned with labels anyhow?
A label is just a label. Its whats inside the can that counts.
Does it really matter if you are "wiccan" or not?
I find it comical to hear "oh there not wiccan and I am" or "they cant be wiccan, just look at them". lmao
A person is what they become. You will never fully know what you are until the end of your life and you go to the life review.
Why limit yourself with being something?
There is nothing wrong with studying and acquiring knowledge, but all this concern with labels is obsurd. (imo)
I dont have a "path". Im Glad !
Having a path would only lead me away from myself. Why would I want to do that?

[Danustouch]

Myst..i completely agree with what you are saying Re: People getting far too hung up on labels, and yet not really taking the time to learn what their path is and isn't before sticking themselves with a label. That's annoying.

Faechylde..I think I agree with you on that whole "Because they hear Wicca everywhere" idea. Alot of other paths are more secretive, silent, or less known than Wicca. So when a person first discovers a "magickal" or "Pagan" belief system.....they're more likely to first label it as Wicca, because that's the most highly visible tradition, in most cases. It's also a matter of semantics, i would guess. Like, for instance, perhaps since "Wicca" is so well known, it would be easier for someone when asked what religion they are to answer "Wiccan" then to say "Enochian". (not that i've EVER met an enochian who would EVER call themselves Wiccan..lol.), or Stregarian, or Famtrad. Because people in society have only just begun to get a glimmer of understanding about what Wicca is, due to all of the publicity...but many of these other paths would raise new questions, and the practioner would have to take longer to define what that means.

Mastermoon....I've actually just discussed my theory on the whole label thing, either somewhere here, or on another message board. I think basically, there is a need for labels as long as humanity doesn't really take the time to get to know eachother as individuals. Say you're out at a restaurant, and someone offers you Pork, but you happen to be a Jew. To say "I'm sorry, I can't eat Pork, I'm Jewish"...is far easier to say than "I'm sorry, I can't eat pork. My religion teaches that pork is unclean, because of x, y & z". In other words..labels have become yet another convenience in a world which has grown too large, and too busy. People don't really want to hear a paragraph or more dictation about what your belief system is, and what your religion is, all the time. Sometimes, they only need a quick frame of reference, a "Label" to understand what you're saying, so that they can move onto other things.

Perhaps it is sad that this is how society functions. That we're not always willing to sit down and get to know everyone's belief system that we meet...and have a real conversation with everyone we meet. Perhaps it's superficial. But..it's the way this world is. And until that changes..labels will always exist.

[Mercuria]

I think that people may look down on wicca because it's the most popular form of paganism, and many people are introduced to paganism through wicca. Perhaps people have a tendency to see it as the "beginner's" path of paganism.

Also, I've noticed that it is becoming even more mainstream. I was in a bookshop the other day, and there was rows and rows of spell books, wicca 101 books, and all the cutesy "how to be a real teen witch" books.
The fact that it's popular, and accessable could be enough to put people off. Especially if you get heaps of little teenyboppers running around casting circles.

The fact is, all the fluffy-bunny witches will eventually loose interest in wicca, only people with a genuine calling will stick to it as a serious religion.

Just my own thoughts,
Mercuria

[Myst]

Very true Mercuria.

[Danustouch]

Yeah..or like...if God forbid we ever really did start being banned from practicing our religion by the government, boy..that would certainly start separating the sheep from the goats, eh?

[Myst]

hehe that'll happen in Canada... when hell freezes over..

[Laiste]

Originally posted by Danustouch
hehehe...i'd gladly bash SRW...but I was trying to be nice. She's certainly got her good points..but.....

My main problem has always been with the fact that SOME people pick up a copy of "To Ride a Silver Broomstick", and a Copy of Scot Cunninghams "Wicca:Guide to solitary practioner"...and say.."Okay. I've read these. Now I'm Wiccan. I don't even have to look at another book in my life. THey've taught me everything I need to know about Wicca. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that SRW and Scott know everything there is to know about Wicca..and that everything they say is 100% absolutely true, and basically..they are my new bible". THAT I have a problem with. In other words..the people who "STOP" Learning at all the fluffy stuff. Fluffy stuff has it's time and it's place in developement, but if you STAY there, at that level, and do not challenge yourself, and continue your search for knowledge, and whats WORSE, refute HISTORICAL evidence, because SRW or Scott Cunningham said something differen't....well....that i have a HUGE problem with. Pant * Pant * Pant* okay..done ranting. Anyway..that's just me, just something I wanted to get off my chest..I'm done...shoot me now....thanks.

OH Boy!! LOL You just described a friend of mine! She started to study Wicca a few months after we met when she found out that I was studying Paganism. Well she read A Solitary's Guide by Cunningham and that was it...she proclaimed herself as Wiccan!! She has since purchased a few more books and that's all she wrote. She is stuck in her limited knowledge and continuously tries to down me because I am not Wiccan. She feels that this is the only way. I have tried to share information with her that I have found but she won't hear of it!! Oh well to each his/her own!!

Personally I don't really have a set path at the moment and I guess I would concider myself an eclectic Witch. I am studying many different things at the moment and don't feel I have to decide my path...I think it will be chosen for me. I take what I need for sifferent resources and go from there. There is such a wealth of information out there but we all have to find what works for us as individuals.

As far as Wiccans having a bad name due to these so called "fluff bunnies" well, that is really unfortunate!! People have to get thier start somewhere and given the popularity of Wicca, it is usually chosen first. I know that they are out there but not all teens are watching The Craft and saying oohh I wanna be a Witch...or I'm a Wiccan. There are some who really want to learn and are serious about it! Just take a look around this board and you will find them!:)

[Chibi-Fallon]

I'm a Wiccan, Danustouch (and everyone else). I was thinking about putting that in parentheses but then I thought I sounded repetitive. Guess not. 8O Please don't beat me (I don't have a sign made out yet). I'm small, fragile and stringy anyways.
I was just saying everyone seems to think all Wiccans are the half-assed teenyboppers. It's a stereo-type people have I'm not saying anyone is like that. I don't want a bunch of non-half-assed Wiccans coming to kill me! I'm not that stupid. ;)

[Danustouch]

Whew..ok..sorry bout that :)

[Faechylde]

Danustouch, you explained what I was trying to say so well. I am not that hung up on labels except when I'm trying to describe my beliefs to others. I only explain it to those willing to listen anyway.

:cutie: :thunmbsup: :boing:

Blessed Be :cutie:

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by MasterMoon
There is nothing wrong with studying and acquiring knowledge, but all this concern with labels is obsurd. (imo)
I dont have a "path". Im Glad !
Having a path would only lead me away from myself. Why would I want to do that?

Well spoken MM. Half of Mol's (Mole's?) 4000 some-odd posts are just him saying "I hate labels, they only serve to diminish and limit you".

Of course, I take the alternative stance that labels can identify friends and kindred spirits just as well as they alienate those who are different than yourself. By saying "hail eris" I can make a room full of friends, just by virtue of revealing my faith.

Though, in some cases, saying I am a "Discordian" might serve to get a blank look from people. In which case, I may choose to lie. Nothing wrong with that. Especially if you happen to be a discordian. Which I may or may not be.

[Danustouch]

Illuminatus:

Have I told you how much I LOOOOOOVE your sig line? LOL..it's SOOOO true!

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Danustouch
Illuminatus:

Have I told you how much I LOOOOOOVE your sig line? LOL..it's SOOOO true!

Yep it does... actually one of my favorite site's title bar says "The Internet Makes You Stupid" so I just amended it to "Just Silly" and voila, it still works.

I noticed you got rid of the "David Banner" line from your sig.. the one where I was saying MAYBE IT'S YOU DAVID BANNER... of course, I just found out that the Incredible Hulk's alter ego was actually BRUCE Banner, not david, but who cares you canned that line anyway.

[Danustouch]

heheh..yeah..I recalled that somewhere along the way..too. But...I deleted it mainly because I felt my dabbling statement was far more important ;)

[Haedis]

Sorry to interrupt by getting back on track ;)

IMO, "Wiccanism" *giggle* is getting all these negative associations tacked on to it because most of the time the Wiccans that are very open about their beliefs are also braggy and immature about it. Realize, I know not all of them are like this...the majority of Wiccans aren't, but the public will never know that since most of the really sincere ones arent the types to run around proclaiming it to one and all.
I used to be Wiccan (very recently infact) but decided to diverge to something that more closely resembles my current beliefs. It had nothing to do with people harrassing me for it.

I really get sick of hearing " I'm a pagan. What's asatru? Nuh uh...thats not Pagan. It wasnt in (insert fluffy Wiccan book here)" What ever happened to new-comers trying to LEARN rather than DISPROVE? (sorry, side rant)

Yeah the bad publicity sucks, but oh well. We arent doing this to impress anyone or change anyone's mind, correct me if I'm wrong. This is for each one of us individually, so other than the minor annoyances of the misconceptions...it really doesnt matter what they think of Wiccans and Non-Wiccans alike. (as many people have said far more eloquently than I :) )

[Nect]

OK, I've met a fellow Wiccan and got gently lectured that I should read at least 10 books before I enter the religion. I know that research is an absolute necessity before anyone jumps into anything - but to bash someone for being Wiccan (note that I'm not saying 'calling' themselves Wiccan, coz that's not the point, it's 'being' one that matters) yet not having read enough books misses an important point. That important point I'm talking about is what has actually been gained from the readings. A person can read all the books there are out there but can anyone say for sure that by the mere fact that such research has been undertaken, this person now genuinely understands what Wicca is? The label, quite agreed upon, is inconsequential - after reading EVERYTHING, have you found yourself? Or have you found whatever it is that you believe Wicca guides you to find?

It is something spiritual though at the same time research must be done - yet to say, "OK, read this, this, this and chapters blah, blah, blah" and then you can 'legitimately' be Wiccan...sounds...wrong to me. I don't give the least crap about whether or not I am recognized by other Wiccans as Wiccan, because it's a path that I have chosen in order to discover who I am.

Having said that, I don't mean I'm not doing the research anymore! Quite the opposite! I read as much as I can get my hands on (and as much as I can afford!), bu,t though it does not really matter to me that someone would be appalled that I've 'only' read seven books related to Wicca and go on to be Wiccan, it is disturbing...especially when this person is supposed to be on a path similar to mine.

Sorry...I didn't mean to take the posts here so personally, but just that I know I am Wiccan (previously, I actually didn't know what I was - I just knew that I wasn't sure if I was Wiccan or not. And when I was certain that I was, I was not told by another Wiccan that, "I now confirm you are Wiccan." I just found it in me.) and I felt a bit uneasy, it seems, the consensus is along the lines of the greater number of books you have read = the greater chance of you knowing what/who you are. Please correct me if I have misunderstood the contents of the previous posts...

Nect

[Danustouch]

Nope...I don't think that we meant that a person can't be Wiccan if they've only read a couple of books I think that what we meant is that a person really isn't a wiccan if they read ONE book, Find a lovespell they think is neat, do the ritual, and all of a sudden, announce to the world that they are Wiccan. Yet..never bother to pursue learning by way of other books, doing any more research into it (unless they need a quick spell, then they log onto the internet jump into chatrooms or forums, and ask someone to give them a quick 'banish my enemy' spell), or anything. Know what I mean? The "Fad" Wiccans. The ones who get into it because doing a spell is really cool. But they have no desire to learn about the spiritual or historical side of it, nor to grow and apply it's spiritual principles to their lives, they just start referring to themselves as Wiccan...for some unknown reason. Know what I mean, Jelly bean ? :) So...nope. The number of books you've read has nothing to do with "how wiccan you are" (what a strange phrase). It's more "What is your desire to learn".

[Myst]

"The number of books you've read has nothing to do with "how wiccan you are" (what a strange phrase). It's more "What is your desire to learn"."

Exactly. Willingness to learn can't be pinned down to a few books or 10 books, but the propensity of a person to continue learning and growing all the time.

[Nect]

Thanks Danustouch and Myst...I was just checking...So I guess we were all just aiming our arrows at fluffy bunnies??? Well, I know I'm ready shoot any time! :D

Nect

[Sequoia]

*readies her baka stick* ahh, fluffie bunnies and hollywood witches. . .the bane of my existance >.x *twitch*

I have had more crap go on with a couple of women who thought they were like the goddess incarnate or goddess initiated or something. . . now, don't get me wrong. I think the goddess loves EVERY ONE of her children, and helps them on each of their paths. But it gets REAAAAAL annoying when some hollywood witch comes up acting like they're Zeus's daughter or something, and using their energywork to try and fuzz up your brain into believing them. "ooh lookit me I'm goddess ordained, by her herself! And lookie, I can do special magick and make rhyming spells that always end with "as my will so must it be" just like in the books!!! woo!!" -_-; look whatever floats your boat, sweetie, just don't run around proclaiming that you're exactly what this religion is and that you're my elder, ok? thanks.

[Myst]

Yeah it's kinda silly that a lot of newer/less experienced/less knowledgeable/less willing to learn Pagans act as though they know more then others isn't it?

[Myst]

Actually it's kind of silly for anyone to do that I suppose.

Even if someone is inexperienced their path is just as valid, right? I mean we honour the maiden *and* the crone!

[Sequoia]

hehe yep. I never thought that their way wasn't a valid religion . . . it just can get bob dole annoying!! (oh dear gods, my brother has me using his slang -_-;;;;; ) hehe

[Myst]

hehe sorry I didn't mean to imply *you* were acting like that but that *they* were. Just wanna make sure I'm clear :)

[Sequoia]

no problem :) clear is good hehe

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Nect
OK, I've met a fellow Wiccan and got gently lectured that I should read at least 10 books before I enter the religion.

This sounds kind of like an affront to the Pagans of the middle and dark ages, most of whom could not read or write.

[Myst]

But back then beliefs and practices were handed down by word of mouth. You learned Paganism from your family. These days that doesn't happen often (as most people are Christian), so instead we have a wealth of books and info online.

[Danustouch]

Puma...what do you mean by "Hollywood" Witch? What constitutes a Hollywood witch? Is it someone who doesn't research their beliefs, and does it all for the "label?". I'm not familiar with the term.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Is the witch who uses Ice, Lightning, and fire! In using her spells. She throws a fireball at someone and casts lightning on them. This kind of thing has been around before movies of course, but hollywood uses it now. And it is what we call "Hollywood Magic" And a person who uses that kind of thing in the movie "A.K.A The Craft, and so on and so forth" Is considered a hollywood witch.

[Myst]

That's what comes from people who learn about the craft from roleplaying and movies :rolleyes:

[Sequoia]

hehe close, yes. A Hollywood witch is one who's mainstay knowlage comes completely from movies and those "FAMOUS SO IT MUST BE TRUE" type books. . . who think they're basically GOD over all others. . . the sort of nose-in-the-air "I'm a celebrety to the Goddess and you're just some little whining kid" type of attitude. . . ^^; something like that. I'm bad at describing words correctly hehe

[Danustouch]

Puma-

You've met people like that? Admittedly, i've met people (unfortunately), who built their path on the movie "The Craft"...but...mostly youngun's. I'm curious as to what you mean by the.."famous so it must be true" books. Which books would you mean? And I think I understand what you mean now. You mean the people who base all their knowledge on a Silver Raven Wolf book, and then try to come off as some sort of expert. Is that what you mean? And these people try to play themselves off as Elder??? Hmmm...I'd like to meet these people they play "Elder" to. I'd say that person wouldn't have their eyes very open, if they were willing to let such a person claim themselves their "Elder".

[Sequoia]

*NODSNODSNODS*

yeah, somewhere around here is a rant I made. . . this woman, her nickname's "Pinky" *shudders* she tried to like "claim" me as hers and "teach" me. . . now, this woman has the most advanced case of superiority complex I've ever seen, coupled with this idea that she's this ultimate elder thing. . . She was bragging about how people's energy and aura are very rarely white, but HERS are and she's oh so special and the expert of everything. . . UHG! she just makes me mad! I hope nobody ever bases their opinion of paganism/wiccanism on her! >.< blech! :sick:

and after several months, I realize I think I'm more of an "elder" than her. . . . or perhaps it's better not to be an Elder! I keep my eyes and heart open, and I'm always, ALWAYS learning more things. I try not to snub anyone, because for all I know they've got far more extensive knowlage than I. I just try to be me. hehe

[Myst]

I guess we all have people we judge as not sincere or "fake", eh?

[Sequoia]

no no, the thing was, she WAS being sincere. . . that's why it was so. . . *can't quite find the right adjective* somewhere between eerie and annoying 8O

[Myst]

I mean not sincere/fake as far as beliefs - ie. not into Paganism for "real" reasons :)

[Sequoia]

ah okees hehe I see :)

[Alphyna]

Not trying to offend, but the original definition of pagan was anyone not christian. just thought i would put that out there.
Much Love and Peace to All, Alphyna

[Myst]

erm not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, you mean?

[Alphyna]

Perhaps...Although I recieved this definition from a lady I know in bible studies...so I think in her bible it was anyone not christian, b/c " all other religions are half truth half lie, and only in god's will will we see the full truth"...blah, blah, blah...It's funny how they never consider the same of their religion, when it can be so destructive to our world...I have never met a more closed mind... *not here..the girl I know*
Bright Days to All, Alphyna

[Myst]

Well then I suppose you can imagine how important her opinion is to yours or anyone here's then...?

I tend not to waste worry on people like that. *shrugs*

[Alphyna]

I just read how my post looked, I did not mean to sound so negative. What I meant by it was just that It is sometimes frustrating to talk with her b/c although I keep an open mind, and understand how her religion works for her, and how it feels right for her. I do respect that. I just wish for the same respect in return. I think we all have our own truths, and no one should try to tell us otherwise. Her religion is true to her, as well as yours to you. I just don't know why some people have to try and force their beliefs on others.
Brightest Blessiongs, Alphyna

[DragonDawn]

I believe that people look down alittle bit on Wiccans because really the majority of Wiccans they meet are the Jr High to the High School age level and they really don't take it seriously. And anybody thats Christian or whatever, they ony see the pagan community as the stereotype of the teen-age, rebelious, 'typical' Wiccan. Every religion has its stereotype. Theres nothing wrong with being Wiccan, I have friends who are and they don't fit the stereotype of your 'typical' Wiccan.

[Mythrel]

as far as my label goes, I'm simply PAGAN...
my problem is organized religion of any kind. and Wicca to me is another organized religion. I have no problems with actual Wiccans, but I myself would never become one because I don't like the structure the Wicca religion uses...

as far as fluffy bunnies, we've all met them, some disguise it better than others, but we've all met at least one...and they do tend to brag, and run at the mouth...hell I used to be a fluffy bunny(hmm, running at the mouth right now, maybe I still am) but I continued to study and research and find new ways to do things and to push myself...so I really hope I have passed the fluffy bunny stage...:D

[Mythrel]

Originally posted by Myst
erm not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, you mean?

exactly, I'm just Pagan...and I'll leave it at that

[Ben Gruagach]

Wicca = the religion (although originally it was the word for a male witch, and Wicce was a female witch)

Wiccan = a person who practices Wicca.

This word "Wiccanism" or "Wiccaism" or whatever is really confusing, and I don't think it's a real word.

I really hope anyone who calls themselves a Wiccan knows what the name of their religion is, and what to call a person who follows that faith. I've heard the words used in very confusing ways on television like in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (which is one of my favourites, by the way) where they said Willow was "one mean Wicca," or something like that. Wrong word, for a number of reasons!

By the way, I consider myself to be Wiccan. And I'm thirty-five, and I've been practicing since I was about fourteen or fifteen - all on my own until I went to university and started really telling people what my religion was.

[Earthcup]

I think it's because Wicca is what most people are attracted to to begin with. Therefore the nuts, fluffs and daytrippers tend to get filtered through Wicca and the less well known religons/traditions tend to frown on Wicca because of that.

Wicca is a fine religon with many wonderful people attracted to it. I think it's popularity has hurt it a little though.

[Valnorran]

As a Wiccan, I have to say that one of my more prevalent fears has been Wicca gaining too much popularity. I'm convinced that has been the downfall of several religions. For example, I think Christianity was a pretty good system until Rome got a hold of it. Once it got popular and powerful, it went downhill.

Of course, every religion is going to have its share of undesirables. Mainstream religions have their fundamentalists. We have our... well, those types ya'll have been talking about. I don't really have a name for them.

I've been a practicing solitary for about six years now. The learning process has been slow. I'm only just now really accepting and starting to understand magick. Astrology just doesn't interest me that much. I'd like to play around with divination some more. I have a deck of tarot cards that I mess with from time to time, but nothing serious. I have no desire to join a coven and just want to proceed at my own natural pace. I am currently experiencing a renewal of energy after a long period of despair and gloom. It feels quite nice.

[Earthcup]

:D Great sig line!

Yeah Christianity was a very cool, vibrant and interesting religon in the early days. Even in the medieval days there were several fascinating heresies.

Hopefully the other Pagan faiths will become a bit more popular over the next few years and Wicca will no longer have to shoulder such a big burden. I know people of other faiths like to snub Wicca but I wonder how they'd handle, say, Hellenismos or Thelema becoming that popular? :eyebrow:

I'm not Wiccan but that's because I couldn't make the concepts work for me. I still think it's a fine religon.

[widukind]

Here in Belgium, Wicca (or any other kind of Pagan faith) isn't actually that big. I'd say most people here are either agnostic or atheist. It would be a good thing for Wicca to become more popular (and other Pagan religions along with it), the downside would be thirteen year-olds who create their 'Wicca website' or their online 'Book of Shadows' without knowing the first thing about pantheons, history, etc. There's too much useless stuff on the internet already, and increasing popularity leads to increasing numbers of ignorant people claiming 'to know'.
I think most people here don't know what the word Wicca means, and most still associate the archetypal witch on a flying broomstick with Wiccans.

[Valnorran]

Thanks, Earthcup! Madeline Stowe said it in Last of the Mohicans after mulling over whether or not she chould let others decide who she should marry. Running a very close second is a quote I have on a book mark attributed to a Creek Indian named Tomochichi:

"The more I consider the condition of the white man, the more fixed becomes my opinion that, instead of gaining, they have lost much by subjecting themselves to what they call the laws and regulations of civilized societies."

[silverm00n]

I think people get lost in the words

[Starwind]

Oh yeah i get that one all the time when i tell someone im pagan..." oh your wiccan?".. eheheeh ..... no.. but its a very common assumtion..... the reason being that the wicca where the frist group in years to go public...... and stayed out there.. they were the ones the general public saw.... an associtcated... pagan with.....for which we should thank them..
our current freedom to pacitce our faith in the open is due a great deal to this...but it does get very old to be assumed to be of the wicca.... i follow a great many of their ideals.. as I am electic as hell ....... but I follow the celtic/Fay paths....

but anit wiccan.. ? I dont think so.. I think its just that a great many people are a little tired of the assumtion on the part of the general public.....that we all are the same...

yours
starwind