Scientology and Wicca

[Faechylde]

MM everyone!

I have a question about Scientology and Wicca. I am Wiccan and my husband used to be but now he is a member of the Church of Scientology. I want to raise our future children in the ways of Wicca and I would like my husband to participate. I wonder if he can still be a member of the Church of Scientology and Wiccan at the same time. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks!
BB!

[Myst]

Well even if you're Wiccan and he's not you could discuss with him how to raise your kids, and how to strike a happy medium. There's a few threads here on what people think Wicca is, and if you use the search function you might find them. I don't think it's really important that it be "ok" to label anyone one way or the other, but that's just me. Sorry I don't know anything about scientology, I hope someone who knows more can help ya there.

For me, I'm Pagan and my fiance isn't. We want to expose them to whatever beliefs and religions we can and let them find their own way. I know I had a great time at Christian Bible camp every summer and at church the times I went, so I don't have a problem encouraging my kids to try that too.

[Illuminatus]

Project Clambake has a lot of good information:

www.xenu.net

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
Project Clambake has a lot of good information:

www.xenu.net


Thank! I'll check it out.

BB.

[astrokaiju]

from what i know about Scientology, it includes the idea that you can belong to another religion at the same time. it deals more with the actual nature of the human soul and not so much with the idea of deity, leaving that open for you to decide. also, it includes some of the same ideas of wicca, like reincarnation.

but i don't know if that's really the issue here. does your husband want to be a wiccan and a scientologist, or is that just something you want for him? it won't end well if you try to get him to do something he doesn't really have his heart into. or do you just want him to not discourage the kids from learning about wicca, or to participate in limited ways even if he doesn't practice wicca anymore? as far as i can see, that would work out just fine. but one of the important things to remember with wicca is that it can bring down an entire ritual if one of the participants is just going along with it without really meaning it.

at any rate, like Myst said, it's possible to strike a happy medium. in fact, my guess is that kids with parents of two different faiths are likely to end up more open-minded and well-adjusted. and when they decide which faith they'd actually like to follow, they'll have a better field of experience, to know exactly what it is that they are accepting/rejecting in terms of religion. so if your husband reads them Dianetics as their bedtime story, it may even enhance everything that you're teaching them about wicca.

oh man...i hope i helped instead of just being long-winded.......

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by astrokaiju
from what i know about Scientology, it includes the idea that you can belong to another religion at the same time. it deals more with the actual nature of the human soul and not so much with the idea of deity, leaving that open for you to decide. also, it includes some of the same ideas of wicca, like reincarnation.

but i don't know if that's really the issue here. does your husband want to be a wiccan and a scientologist, or is that just something you want for him? it won't end well if you try to get him to do something he doesn't really have his heart into. or do you just want him to not discourage the kids from learning about wicca, or to participate in limited ways even if he doesn't practice wicca anymore? as far as i can see, that would work out just fine. but one of the important things to remember with wicca is that it can bring down an entire ritual if one of the participants is just going along with it without really meaning it.
at any rate, like Myst said, it's possible to strike a happy medium. in fact, my guess is that kids with parents of two different faiths are likely to end up more open-minded and well-adjusted. and when they decide which faith they'd actually like to follow, they'll have a better field of experience, to know exactly what it is that they are accepting/rejecting in terms of religion. so if your husband reads them Dianetics as their bedtime story, it may even enhance everything that you're teaching them about wicca.

oh man...i hope i helped instead of just being long-winded.......



I would ideally likeit if he could be a scientologist and Pagan at the same time. He still believes all the same things I do so it ispossible that he can participate in celebrations in the very least. What I was trying to ge at is that if my kids want to be Pagan, it'd be nice if their dad participated as well. But it is all up to him. If he could, I'd be happy. If he was not really into it but let us do it, I'd be happy. I don't want him to do anything he doesn't want to do.

As for the part about parents with parents of different religions, that is like me a little. They were different forms of Christian but when my mom was little, they went to church and my dad didn't. So, we went to church maybe a handfull of times when I was a kid. It was never forced on us. That is what I want to do with my kids. Teach them about Pagan religions and Scientology and then when they decide to ask questions or participate, then they can. Hmmmm...kinda the wrong forum for that...

Well, I really appreciate all the help. BB!

[Illuminatus]

This will not happen. Once he gets to level OTIII, you can throw out any any hopes of him tolerating pagans in his life.

Scientology links all spritis to evil aliens called "Thetans" who were mass-murdered on earth a billion years ago by an evil overloard named "Xenu" (see battlefield earth, john travolta portrays xenu). The Thetans are trapped without bodies in volcanos. Scientologists believe that it is the ghosts of these thetans that confuse us and give us personality and health problems, and they must be "cleared" from us with dubious uses of peseudo-science and para-psychology.

It really is a cult, and a cunning one at that... they control through legal threats, harrassment, law suits, trickery and misinformation. It is run by dangerous, obsesive, delusional people. Project Clambake www.xenu.net has gigs and gigs of evidence about this religion, their recruiting tactics, and their activities. If I had to sum up the COS in a single word, it would be Ruthless. They have no mercy in harassing those who criticize them, and will use every underhanded, viscious tactic they can to silence those who speak about them.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, but remember that you were warned.

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
This will not happen. Once he gets to level OTIII, you can throw out any any hopes of him tolerating pagans in his life.

Scientology links all spritis to evil aliens called "Thetans" who were mass-murdered on earth a billion years ago by an evil overloard named "Xenu" (see battlefield earth, john travolta portrays xenu). The Thetans are trapped without bodies in volcanos. Scientologists believe that it is the ghosts of these thetans that confuse us and give us personality and health problems, and they must be "cleared" from us with dubious uses of peseudo-science and para-psychology.

It really is a cult, and a cunning one at that... they control through legal threats, harrassment, law suits, trickery and misinformation. It is run by dangerous, obsesive, delusional people. Project Clambake www.xenu.net has gigs and gigs of evidence about this religion, their recruiting tactics, and their activities. If I had to sum up the COS in a single word, it would be Ruthless. They have no mercy in harassing those who criticize them, and will use every underhanded, viscious tactic they can to silence those who speak about them.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, but remember that you were warned.

Ok, I am just guessing you are opposed to the COS. That's all well and good. I have no interest myself in it. And I have done a little research on it. But I don't belive it is a cult any more than I believe that Paganism is a cult. They have not tried to recruit me or anything like that. And I whole heartedly disagree with you about once my husband gets to level OTIII, that he won't tolerate pagans in his life. Maybe someone you know did that, but it all is up to the person. That is just my opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts though.

[Myst]

As an aside, Pagan paths are cults, as cult is defined as


formal religious veneration worship

a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

[astrokaiju]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
Scientology links all spritis to evil aliens called "Thetans" who were mass-murdered on earth a billion years ago by an evil overloard named "Xenu" (see battlefield earth, john travolta portrays xenu).


i thought "thetan" was their word for the soul.

i thought the evil aliens were called "psyclos" or something.

[astrokaiju]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
This will not happen. Once he gets to level OTIII, you can throw out any any hopes of him tolerating pagans in his life.

Scientology links all spritis to evil aliens called "Thetans" who were mass-murdered on earth a billion years ago by an evil overloard named "Xenu" (see battlefield earth, john travolta portrays xenu). The Thetans are trapped without bodies in volcanos. Scientologists believe that it is the ghosts of these thetans that confuse us and give us personality and health problems, and they must be "cleared" from us with dubious uses of peseudo-science and para-psychology.

It really is a cult, and a cunning one at that... they control through legal threats, harrassment, law suits, trickery and misinformation. It is run by dangerous, obsesive, delusional people. Project Clambake www.xenu.net has gigs and gigs of evidence about this religion, their recruiting tactics, and their activities. If I had to sum up the COS in a single word, it would be Ruthless. They have no mercy in harassing those who criticize them, and will use every underhanded, viscious tactic they can to silence those who speak about them.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, but remember that you were warned.


besides, i don't know if i would believe everyone who ever went to task against a religion. i mean, people write vicious "exposes" on paganism all the time, you know?

[amberlaine]

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I"d warn you to not write off what Illuminatus is saying simply because you don't see it happening, or because you think your husband will be "different", or whatever. He may very well be--but in my opinion/experience, he's actually right about SCientology being a cult--and yes, a dangerous cult.

And it's not about writing off scientology or bashing it--it's called calling a spade a spade. Have a look aat ISaac Bonewitz's "How to REcognize a cult" or whatever that essay is called--its a real eye opener. And if you read that and still don't see how Scientology could easily be classified as a cult, then my guess would be that you don't know as much about Scientology as your probably think you do.

[Faechylde]

MM!

I thank everyone for their input, though it took a turn not intended, but that's cool. The Scientologists I have known have not shown characteristics to what you're describing. And as for my husband, he is not either. I don't believe he ever will. So I am not about to throw everything away because he *might* not want to *put up with a Pagan in his life*. All people are capable of anything. But I will deal with whatever life throws my way.

And just as a side note, he has not actually been to the Church in over a year and a half. We have not discussed him getting back into the Craft as of yet, but it might be a possibility. But as long as what he does isn't harming others or himself, I will not bash him or punish him by somehting other Scientologists have done.

That said, I think I'll go and eat dinner with my loving and supportive husband. = )

Blessed Be!

[Myst]

I don't think the intention was for you to "throw everything away" but to give you some different insights on scientology and a heads up on what you might want to note and be careful of.

Blessings to you :)

[Illuminatus]

Just remember, I only restrict three types of individuals from attending my parties: Cops, Nazis and Scientologists. Everyone else is welcome. Think about it.

Well enjoy your trip, see you next fall. In case you don't log on again, let me jump in with a quick "I told you so!". Search the entire site, and you will soon discover that I am always right about everything. It is my blessing and my curse.

- Illuminatus!

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
Just remember, I only restrict three types of individuals from attending my parties: Cops, Nazis and Scientologists. Everyone else is welcome. Think about it.

Well enjoy your trip, see you next fall. In case you don't log on again, let me jump in with a quick "I told you so!". Search the entire site, and you will soon discover that I am always right about everything. It is my blessing and my curse.

- Illuminatus!

Well not now... your wrong. Thinking you know everything is the path of ignorance not intelligence. A true wise man knows nothing. ;):p

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by MistOfTheSea86


Well not now... your wrong. Thinking you know everything is the path of ignorance not intelligence. A true wise man knows nothing. ;):p

Thank you.

BB

[Myst]

no no it's "a true wise man knows he knows nothing" silly man ;)

:D

[MistOfTheSea86]

Oh whatevers, the message is the same:D:D:D

[Sequoia]

if that site is at all accurate, the bulk of Scientologists must be kind of. . . err. . . . yeah :eyebrow: sure hope that it's like those cat-sacrificing Pagans we so often hear about. . . -_-;


LMAO a wise person is one who knows they don't know anything! heheh what you guys said

[astrokaiju]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
if that site is at all accurate, the bulk of Scientologists must be kind of. . . err. . . . yeah :eyebrow: sure hope that it's like those cat-sacrificing Pagans we so often hear about. . . -_-;



that's what it seems like to me. that site sounds pretty biased, and, although i think some of the scientologists' beliefs and practices baffle me, i have yet to come across something that's really harmful according to anyone besides that site.

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by astrokaiju



that's what it seems like to me. that site sounds pretty biased, and, although i think some of the scientologists' beliefs and practices baffle me, i have yet to come across something that's really harmful according to anyone besides that site.

I agree totally. That is what I am trying to say. My expeiences have all been okay. And none of them have tried to recruit me or change me or anything. I don't understand a lot of it, but I don't think it is harmful.

And, a little side note: If you look at most books on cults, they often list Wiches/Pagans/Witches as cults also. We don't believe THAT, do we? I didn't think so. Okay, I'm done with that little rant. Bye for now.

BB!

[Myst]

I'm curious, did you read my post on what a cult is?

[Faechylde]

Myst, you asked if I read your post on what a cult is. Yes, I did, but it seemed like a dictionary definition. I am referring to what some people would say is a cult and how people still call witchcraft a cult. It may not be the correct interpretation, but then again, the ignorant and cruel people out there probably don't even own a dictionary. Just my opinion.

BB!

[Myst]

There's no inherent harm in words, even if some people use them in a negative way. For instance we know Witchcraft has nothing to do with Satanism, even though some people think the two are the same thing - so should we say "we aren't Witches are we?"

There are a few discussions on such words and their use here that might be of interest.

Here's the cult danger evaluation frame by Bonewitz that I believe Illuminatus was referring to -http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.HTML

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by astrokaiju



that's what it seems like to me. that site sounds pretty biased, and, although i think some of the scientologists' beliefs and practices baffle me, i have yet to come across something that's really harmful according to anyone besides that site.

The reason for that is that they sue anyone who posts anything detractory about them. Anywhere. Yes, anywhere.

That guy lives in Finland, that is the only reason he can run that site. The Scientologists sue any US-based websites that post anything like that, on the grounds that their sacred church documents are copywright-protected.

Once, only once, in the entire history of the Slashdot.org community, has a post ever been deleted. And it was the Scientologists lawyers who forced it. This should tell you something. Go to Slashdot.org and see what they think of scientologists there.

Scientologists also spam their own Usenet usegroups. When people started posting true stories about scientologists and the crazy theories that the church runs on, they responded by anonymously spamming the entire newsgropu with random-phrase nonsense-posts, so many and so prolific that the signal-to-noice ratio on the newsgroup fell so low, nobody could read it any more.

Do some reasearch, ask around. These are NOT nice people. I know that Mol or his ISP may get threatening letters just by virtue of having my post online. But it's a risk I take because i know Mol feels as adamantly as I do about free speech online. don'tcha mol?

- Ill