Once and for all

[Kahlil the Heretic]

I'm really fed up with this, and hope to use this topic to decide whether or not psiballs exist. If by the end of the week most people say no, then I'm not wasting my time with it anymore.

[CheshireEyes]

hey! where's the "other" option! LOL, jk

Seriously though, it depends on how you define it.


OT: You do realize everytime I see your AV, I start cracking up remembering those skits from SNL, "If you were a hot dog, and you were hungry, would ya eat yourself?". And I have to concentrate to take you seriously.:lol: _inabox_

[Kahlil the Heretic]

WELL HOLD ON!!! That's kinda...HOLD ON! That's kinda the effect I wanted, I figured all the foofy mysterious avatars on this site could use some cheering up. CUBS WIN! CUBS WIN!

[Agaliha]

I'm really fed up with this, and hope to use this topic to decide whether or not psiballs exist. If by the end of the week most people say no, then I'm not wasting my time with it anymore.

So just because other people may not believe in them that means they don't exist and/or you're wasting your time? :wtf: That's bunch of bullsh!t.
Why does it matter if people think Psi-Balls exist or not? I've heard many people tell of their experiences.
Why let people's opinions effect you?
If Psi-Balls are an interest of yours keep with them. So some people think they don't exist. Who cares? There are many that don't think a higher power exists and look how many religions there are!

I just remember you asking about Psi-Balls in another thread before, so I assume it is something you are interested in. Don't let others determine what you believe or do.

[Xentor]

I'm really fed up with this, and hope to use this topic to decide whether or not psiballs exist. If by the end of the week most people say no, then I'm not wasting my time with it anymore.

For the disbelievers, psy balls don't exist. Even if they'd feel the results of getting hit by one, they'd attribute it to something else.

[cydira]

psiballs? what are these?

[Kahlil the Heretic]

That doesn't mean I can't trust the expertise of people who know of such things.

I'm new to metaphysics and so I want to have a better idea of what is considered real and what is BS. If it had to do with something I knew more about it wouldn't be a problem.

Just because a person thinks laser guns exist doesn't mean that they do.

[Xentor]

In its basics, a psi ball is a ball of energy, usually created by a person between their hands, using various methods of projection and concentration.

Easy way to feel this:
clap your hands hard
rub your hands together vigorously
stretch out your arms in front of you, elbows bent a little, palms facing each other, fingers wide and open but not stretched
bring your arms out to each side
now bring your arms back in again
you should feel a stop while going back in: that's the edge of your psi ball
if not, try again.


There's a medical / scientific explanation for that stop: muscle tension. However there's a couple of properties about this that can't be explained scientifically yet.

[cydira]

Oh! Those things. I didn't know they were called that.

I've always heard them called "glows" or energy spheres.

Those things are fun to play with. Sometimes I can draw enough energy up to actually make one light up a room somewhat. Helps when it's really frigging dark and you can't see to walk around a room.

What's the reasearch being done on 'em?

[Kahlil the Heretic]

Oh come on, I'm sure that if a person could light up a room with one it would be all over the news.

[Xander67]

Not everyone wants to be a Lab Rat...

Just because CNN doesnt have a special about it doesnt mean it isnt happening...

http://www.psichi.org/

[cydira]

If I had access to a camera, I'd send you footage. It's actually fairly easy. I can't light the whole room, but I can manage a space that's a few feet in diameter.

Been able to do that since I was a little kid. Managed to make the folks in the science departments at college really confused when I did it just to show that I can. [laughs] Nothing better then confusing the daylights out of PhDs. :)

[Kahlil the Heretic]

How tragic that you don't have access to a camera. They are becoming increasingly rare these days.

[cydira]

Indeed. The ironic thing is that I live a short distance away from the international headquarters of Kodak.

:P

[Rhisiart]

Psi-balls? That reminds me of a joke...

[Xentor]

Oh come on, I'm sure that if a person could light up a room with one it would be all over the news.

What media are you reading?

Researchers recently showed (about a month ago, I'll look it up), that our hands emit photones. Not just our hands, but every other part of our body too. Worse: everything that lives is thought to emit photones.

However, the same researchers also claim that the amount emitted is too little to make a human observable difference under normal circumstances.

[cydira]

?I'm a mutant?

:D

That said, if you refer to my theory as to how magic works, you can see my reasoning as to why you would beable to do such a thing.

http://witchtheology.blogspot.com/2006/08/magic-how-does-it-work.html

[CheshireEyes]

Psi-balls? That reminds me of a joke...
It's a whole new joke if you call 'em psi-globes....:hahugh: _inabox_

[Kahlil the Heretic]

I'll see what I can come up with.

[Garm]

In my practice I have never seen anything that could not be explained by imagination or coicindence.

However "Magick is the art of causing change to occour in conformity to the will," in other words the aplication of imagination to coincidence resulting in a directed form of synchronicty.

The only way I have of evaluating succsses is by a rough application of the laws of probabilty. Just how likely was such and such an event to occour?

The grosser, more physical energy manifestations seem beyond my reach. I could care less and am agnostic about wether or not they are even possible.

Chaos magicians speak of a "psychic censor", a factor that upholds the illusion of this reality by limiting our spiritual power. It has many tricks up it's sleeve to distract us from an upward path. And one of them is directing our interest to something that will seem spiritual but will amount to nothing more than a diverting waste of time.

If you can't make it work don't worry about it, it is starting to sound like a red herring.

[Azul]

In its basics, a psi ball is a ball of energy, usually created by a person between their hands, using various methods of projection and concentration.

Easy way to feel this:
clap your hands hard
rub your hands together vigorously
stretch out your arms in front of you, elbows bent a little, palms facing each other, fingers wide and open but not stretched
bring your arms out to each side
now bring your arms back in again
you should feel a stop while going back in: that's the edge of your psi ball
if not, try again.


There's a medical / scientific explanation for that stop: muscle tension. However there's a couple of properties about this that can't be explained scientifically yet.


This is sorta like sticking your hands in your pockets, and trying to move your arms outward as hard as you can for thirty seconds, then stick your arms at your sides and try to relax, and your arms slowly rise on their own.

A bunch of little things in the body effect it and the way it feels.

[RakliDipity]

There should have been a few more options or an other :hahugh:

I do believe in Psi balls I've tried a few simple home "scientific" experiments with psi balls (I use the "/" because I didn't do it in a lab, and I could have improved the variables I was working with) and come up with rough results, it sort of works, but if it is not working for you, then just move on to something else.

[coaxialkettle]

to some extent phototropy is part of human experience and there is an electromagnetic part to it but that is not All...
take a book with you and go into a completely dark room and sit there for an hour or so.some will be able to read from light emitted from within and some may not.or maybe they will after a vigorously extended time period in the dark.
if this has to do with said balls or not i don't know,but light as we know it is an active participant in the workings of the human nervous system.

[stella01904]

Light is energy anyway, isn't it?

[Meadhbh]

Sure their real. Maybe you just need to work at it a bit more. Or maybe they're not a talent of yours and you need to focus on the things you can do. We can't be good at everything after all.

[coaxialkettle]

one has to sort out if we saw all that was around all the time we would never make it to the shop

[Kahlil the Heretic]

There should have been a few more options or an other :hahugh:

I do believe in Psi balls I've tried a few simple home "scientific" experiments with psi balls (I use the "/" because I didn't do it in a lab, and I could have improved the variables I was working with) and come up with rough results, it sort of works, but if it is not working for you, then just move on to something else.

Well could you at least discuss the said experiment?

[Xander67]

I think the most important thing to have is an open mind. It's good that you want to know. Doubt however will only act as a blocker and hinder any progress..

take a look at the information on this page with an open mind :)
there is a black space between the header and the light blue text.. You have to highlight the text to read it..

http://www.freewebs.com/psiball/telekinesis.htm

the main thing to keep in mind is that PSI BALLS and TELEKINESES are as real as rain.

[Kahlil the Heretic]

It looks like a 10 year-old put that page together. But I'll take a look...

[stella01904]

Well could you at least discuss the said experiment?

Do I detect an attempted Randi-ism?

Alejandro Jodorowsky, who has quite some IQ points on most of us here, spent many years with a psychic surgeon in Mexico. One of the people who does a little sleight-of-hand, "pulls" a bit of chicken gut out of a patient's abdomen, and says they have removed the disease. It works like visualization, only the person physically sees it happen. Very often, the person is healed. By the mind, by magic. The Randis come along, see sleight-of-hand, and say it's a trick. The Randis miss the entire point.

If we can read in the dark, we can read in the dark, and it really makes no difference whether the Randis of this world see a glow or not. If two or more people gaze into a crystal ball, they might all see the same thing - or not.
The rational mind is limiting. It is a filter that helps you do your taxes but needs to be switched off from time to time.

[RakliDipity]

Well could you at least discuss the said experiment?
Sure, sorry I didn't catch your post.
Well, I took my sister and I blind folded her and breifly outlined the experiment- I was going to direct a constant stream of "psi balls" on a certain part of her body- she was to tell what she felt and where she felt it (I didn't tell her what some of the effects of psi balls were- temperature change and such). So I visualised psi balls at her leg, she said she felt it either on her leg or on her torso...we repeated this about 10 times with various other parts of her body, but it was never totally conclusive as she wasn't specific (always mentioning the place and sometimes another)
I hadn't been practising psi balls for long- so you could put it down to inexperience or that she was just a good guesser
A good site to look at (and I'm not to sure if someone else has mentioned it) is www.psipog.net
I hope that helped

[Kahlil the Heretic]

Do I detect an attempted Randi-ism?



Talk is cheap, and a certain amount of skepticism is healthy, even for believers. Randi is an extremist, a cynic even. I don't claim to know anything, but at the same time I'm not about to take what I hear at face value.

Edit: If I was anything like Randi I wouldn't be trying to make psiballs in the first place.

[stella01904]

Excellent point! Apologies!

I assure you, they are real. Have you tried the "spider doing pushups on a mirror" method? Less tiring, and it can make a very concentrated sphere.

These things take practice, sometimes months. But they do work.

[Xander67]

I do agree with you, a bit of skepticism is healthy, but it helps to have an open mind.

if you approach psionics with the attitude of doubt, you are waisting your time. all you need is to accept the possibility that it is real.. if you dont believe in yourself its like turning on the lights with no light bulb.:idea:

[Kahlil the Heretic]

Sorry if I got a little impatient back there...this is very frustrating for me. I don't disbelieve by choice, I don't make a hobby or a living out of tearing down people's belief systems...its just that I've lived my entire life not having seen anything supernatural after searching so damn hard. I'm tired and want quick answers that no one is able to give me, and that is no one's fault. To put it simply, I am a skeptic who wants to be proven wrong. I want to know that there is a greater, deeper world out there than what we can only experience with our senses. All I know how to do is to have an open heart and mind and take things as they come, but I'm no one's fool either.

That spider push-up method is interesting, could you please explain it or give me a link?

[stella01904]

You put the tips of your fingers and thumbs together, then pump "palms in, palms away", fingertips always touching. You visualise a little sphere glowing between the palms. If you practice this (many times) in very dim light you will eventually have times when you can actually see it. You can float it away, just will it where you want, it's up to you if you want to use it for magical purposes or just make the cat jump. Raven Grimmassi outines the technique in one or two of his books, I'll have to check and get back to you about which one. He is over at the Author's Forum here, as well.

Scrying is also very good, it can also require a lot of practice but it is worth it, as it leaves no doubt that there is more going on than we are being taught under conventional circumstances.

[cydira]

The mode by which I make these "psi-balls" (I'm still not sure if it's the best term or not. LOL) is I direct my energy out through one hand and focus it into a sphere. It ususally manifests about one to two inches above my hand.

I start by becoming aware of the energy. I then direct it down my arm and out my hand.

If you're in a dark room, you should beable to see the glow. It's usually fairly faint and difficult to see if you look at it directly.

Another method is to use the "taffy pulling" exercise from tai-chi. Usually, you can get a fairly "solid" ball of energy between your hands for that.

[morningstar2651]

If I had access to a camera, I'd send you footage. It's actually fairly easy. I can't light the whole room, but I can manage a space that's a few feet in diameter.

Been able to do that since I was a little kid. Managed to make the folks in the science departments at college really confused when I did it just to show that I can. [laughs] Nothing better then confusing the daylights out of PhDs. :)Go win yourself a million dollars.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

[Kahlil the Heretic]

Go win yourself a million dollars.

THANK YOU! Finally, some reason.

[cydira]

Go win yourself a million dollars.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

I'm too poor to get out there. 8O

Otherwise,it'd be fun.

[Philosophia]

THANK YOU! Finally, some reason.

Thats reason?

[stella01904]

its just that I've lived my entire life not having seen anything supernatural after searching so damn hard. I'm tired and want quick answers that no one is able to give me, and that is no one's fault. To put it simply, I am a skeptic who wants to be proven wrong. I want to know that there is a greater, deeper world out there than what we can only experience with our senses.

Just wanted to mention, it can manifest in a lot of ways other than psi-balls, of course. Often in its own time, with no effort on your part.

I knew some people who were always telling me about strange manifestations in their house. I was there a lot, I even lived with them for awhile, and for seven years I didn't see anything. I knew they were honest almost to a fault and believed what they were telling me, but I wondered.

One day, I was there with one of them and we were talking. There was a large glass ashtray on a vanity table in the corner of the room. It wasn't being used for smoking, it had a few odds and ends in it like a couple of pennies, a nail, a bit of broken earring. We were talking and it just broke where it was. There was a pop, and it was in four pieces on the vanity and some of the small objects were on the floor.

The window was open, but screened. Nothing came in and hit it. Nobody else was there. I was standing in the doorway leaning against the doorframe, across the room, and my friend was sitting on the bed about 6 feet from the vanity. Nobody threw anything. Nothing fell from the ceiling. The ashtray did not fall, it just popped where it was sitting.

My friend looked at me hard and said, "I told you there was something in this house." Then we left for awhile! :lol:

[Kahlil the Heretic]

Interesting to listen too. Something else entirely to actually witness.

I'm sorry, but I just can't believe only because you said it.

[stella01904]

Of course not! I only mentioned it because I couldn't believe it (the manifestations in the house) just because they said it, either. It took seven years, but I finally saw something there.

Eventually you will see something, as well.

[Kahlil the Heretic]

I just hope I see it before I lose faith completely.

[stella01904]

Maybe you won't see it until you do lose faith. They can be some contrary jokers!

[Kahlil the Heretic]

Who are "they?"

[stella01904]

I was using it as a kind of catch-all phrase for non-physical intelligence.

[Grey]

Interesting to listen too. Something else entirely to actually witness.

I'm sorry, but I just can't believe only because you said it.

Good, true, and yet terrible. For what can we really do here but tell you our veiws and our stories... a few google links? *shrugs* Nothing you cant find on your own.

Of course you cant trust everything you read, and strangers on the internet arent the best sources always... but then neither is the news, or anything else. So before you leave your mind open on one side and closed on the other, doucle check your reasoning.

And while I hate to put it this way, it needs to be asked- Do you Want to beileve?

It makes all the difference in the world. If you want to... itll be there. If you dont want to, you wont. To be impartial about it, to simply let experiance show you...

Oh but that can be hard sometimes!

[Sev]

Researchers recently showed (about a month ago, I'll look it up), that our hands emit photones. Not just our hands, but every other part of our body too. Worse: everything that lives is thought to emit photones.


I assume you mean 'photons', and everything that's warm emits photons, generally in the far infrared spectrum.

[Sev]

If we can read in the dark, we can read in the dark, and it really makes no difference whether the Randis of this world see a glow or not.

Actually, I'd argue that it does matter. There's a massive difference between claims of extrasensory perception -- which would be what someone reading a book in the dark would be -- and claims of a gross manifestation of matter or energy ex nihilo, particularly in human-perceptable quantities!

I believe in extrasensory perception, as I have experienced enough coincidences that they're no longer coincidences in my mind. I still have not seen any evidence of a gross manifestation of matter or energy, and, as such, do not believe yet that it is going on.

[Sev]

And while I hate to put it this way, it needs to be asked- Do you Want to beileve?

I'll answer this question.

Yes. And it is because I want to believe that I cannot accept at face value claims of the fantastic. I'm willing to observe something with an open mind -- but at the same time, if I experience something I believe to be supernatural in origin, I will attempt to discredit it -- because I do not want to believe in, say, car headlights on a mountain -- I want to believe in UFOs.

[Sev]

I'm too poor to get out there. 8O

Otherwise,it'd be fun.

Sooooo ... you live in such destitution that you don't have a camera and none of your friends have a camera, and, while you can "confuse the daylights out of PhDs," you can't beg or borrow bus fare so that you would get a million dollars?

Tell you what. I have a camera, the skills to use it, and I live in NY State, on Long Island. Escrow me, oh, $80 for gas and tolls -- I'm sure that we could figure out a way to do that through a trustworthy individual on MW -- and I'll drive out there, set up both digital and film cameras, and attempt to capture what you claim you can do.

If you can't do it, I get to keep the $80. If you -can- do it, I'll eat the expenses, set up the challenge with Randi, and buy you bus tickets, for, oh, 2% of the million-dollar prize.

[David19]

I still have not seen any evidence of a gross manifestation of matter or energy, and, as such, do not believe yet that it is going on.

I think that Dion Fortune was said to do that, but i don't think everyone can do it, i think it takes a lot of effort and a lot of patience to develop any magical power, i think it takes a lot more than 'visualizaing' something.

[Sev]

I think that Dion Fortune was said to do that, but i don't think everyone can do it, i think it takes a lot of effort and a lot of patience to develop any magical power, i think it takes a lot more than 'visualizaing' something.

Like I said, I desperately want evidence of such things. To date, none has appeared.

[David19]

Like I said, I desperately want evidence of such things. To date, none has appeared.

But i don't think you'll find evidence, 'cause like i said, the people who can do them, probably keep their occult, mystical studies to themselves (most people who get that advanced seem to stay off 'the radar' and keep themselves to themselves, i think anyway), and the people who can probably don't post on internet forums.

I think the best thing to do, for people who want to do mystical things and gain mystical/magical powers (actual flashy stuff, that people say are 'only' in the movies) is to study what Dion Fortune studied (reading her books would probably be a great help), and also studying and practicing, a lot of practicing, various Eastern texts.

I don't think people will find the answer in Llewllyen (BTW, i'm not trying to insult Llewllyen either or any authors they have).

But, this is just my opinion, and people should probably be skeptical of all things they read (but not too skeptical, as you do need an open mind to practice and develop magical powers ;)).

[Kahlil the Heretic]

My heart and mind are always open. But I'm still systematic by nature. I'm nobody's fool.

I will never say that something doesn't exist...only that I don't know if it does or not. The Universe is a big place.

[Sev]

But i don't think you'll find evidence, 'cause like i said, the people who can do them, probably keep their occult, mystical studies to themselves (most people who get that advanced seem to stay off 'the radar' and keep themselves to themselves, i think anyway), and the people who can probably don't post on internet forums.


Psh. Irrelevant, here. Here, we have someone who has claimed, on said internet forum, that she can perform this kind of feat. I have a feeling that this claim will be like all of the rest of the claims of similar reality-bending nature which I've come across -- it will remain completely unsubstantiated, because it's not true, and I will continue to believe that anyone who just comes out and says such things is just spewing so much bollocks.

[David19]

Psh. Irrelevant, here. Here, we have someone who has claimed, on said internet forum, that she can perform this kind of feat. I have a feeling that this claim will be like all of the rest of the claims of similar reality-bending nature which I've come across -- it will remain completely unsubstantiated, because it's not true, and I will continue to believe that anyone who just comes out and says such things is just spewing so much bollocks.

I'm not sure if this person can really do those things, but i do think it's possible, but i doubt anyone here will ever see it, as i think it's more likely to be done by people with serious training (like in the Golden Dawn and others).

But i think individuals can do it if they have enough magical potential, patience and an open mind (but not too open that your brain falls out ;)).

I think if i do ever do anything like that (not saying i will get that far, but it might be cool), i don't think i'd spread it around, as i'd just keep it to myself, maybe tell and show interested friends, but that's it, i don't think people should expect to believe a claim, if they can't see proof, (and it shouldn't be any other way ;)).

Anyway, hope that made some sense :).

[stella01904]

Actually, I'd argue that it does matter. There's a massive difference between claims of extrasensory perception -- which would be what someone reading a book in the dark would be I have to disagree.
A simple claim would be something that can't necessarily be proven. Reading in the dark can be proven, just type up something the person is unfamiliar with, put them in a dark room with it and see what happens.

[cydira]

Psh. Irrelevant, here. Here, we have someone who has claimed, on said internet forum, that she can perform this kind of feat. I have a feeling that this claim will be like all of the rest of the claims of similar reality-bending nature which I've come across -- it will remain completely unsubstantiated, because it's not true, and I will continue to believe that anyone who just comes out and says such things is just spewing so much bollocks.

I appreciate your blunt honesty in expressing your opinion and your skepticism. It is refreshing.

I would like to point out, that I have on multiple occasions managed simmilar "reality-bending." I have conducted an experiment that's presented a 75% success rate that manages to manipulate time. This experiment has been conducted under several situations, formal and informal. I have not published my results, as I am not a professional nor am I working on a doctorate.

I can present to you a simple step by step process to manipulate time in a fashion that allows you to accomplish a 2 hour trip in 1 hr and 30 min, with out exceeding posted speed limits.

I assure you, I am not some crackpot occultist out for glory. My reluctance to publish my results is due to the rather intense objection to such things in the formal academic field and my lack of credentials. I have a bachlore's degree in Liberal Arts. My occult knowledge isn't something that's easily traced via some official paperwork. It's a result of many years of study and experimentation.

Most of the occultists and pagans that I have shared my magical/occult writings with, as well as been allowed to view my records of my work, frequently complain that I take too scientific of an approach. I write out the process of the spell or other work that I am doing, the projected results, the short term and the long term results of my work. If I posted it here, it would look like a fairly rough lab report.

My views on occult phenomena is that 90 to 95% of it can be explained via science. I've been striving to do so, hence my methodology. Even as I appreciate your skepticism, I ask that you be willing to entertain that I am taking this a bit more seriously then many of the others you have encountered.

[Kahlil the Heretic]

And all without a camera.

[cydira]

Sad, ain't it.

I had one along while back and it got stolen from me by some one who claimed to be a friend.

I'm still a little upset with that. :(

[9-2-2]

Psi-balls?

Oh look, I just made one. Whoop-de-shit!

I wish I got so worked up over fingerpainting... honestly, psi-balls are the most basic practices of a neophyte, lol. It gets more fun when you hurl them at each other, heheh.

And there is a damn good reason I wouldn't photograph this shit and send tapes to the news stations: I am currently uninterested in ending up on some weirdass government operating table, to see what gives me "special powers"! Pah. Training, patience, and skill will give anyone the ability to make a *poof* energy ball. :rolleyes:

[Sev]

And there is a damn good reason I wouldn't photograph this shit and send tapes to the news stations: I am currently uninterested in ending up on some weirdass government operating table, to see what gives me "special powers"! Pah. Training, patience, and skill will give anyone the ability to make a *poof* energy ball. :rolleyes:

I believe the expression is "money talks, BS walks." Keep walkin'! :)

[9-2-2]

I believe the expression is "money talks, BS walks." Keep walkin'! :)

Are you saying I have to bribe you for you to believe me? Because I really don't give a damn if you believe in psi-balls or not. Some people don't believe in driving, and some don't believe in learning to read and write.

Only thing is, I'm amused by your sarcastic refusal to move beyond the sad limitations of the five senses. But I won't waste my time, since you already seem to feel you are right - without practicing for yourself. Much like some folks I know, who won't eat a certain food they've never tried before, becasue they *know* it will be disgusting, or whatever bollocks. Have fun!

[Sev]

Only thing is, I'm amused by your sarcastic refusal to move beyond the sad limitations of the five senses. But I won't waste my time, since you already seem to feel you are right - without practicing for yourself. Much like some folks I know, who won't eat a certain food they've never tried before, becasue they *know* it will be disgusting, or whatever bollocks. Have fun!

...And I cannot emphasize strongly enough how amused I am by people who will jump into a conversation without knowing what's going on, sitting safe in the entrenchments of their own ignorance while they make pronouncements about things they don't know about.

A previous poster claimed to be able to manifest psi-balls which could illuminate a room -- that is, which could generate light to be seen by anyone there. While I believe in the ability to create balls of energy (though I find calling them 'psi-balls' pretentious,) I have not seen any credible evidence that these could produce electromagnetic radiation strong enough to be seen -- or detected through any other means.

In response, I offered a challenge -- I'd come out to document this rather unbelieveable feat, and, if satisfied, would do my best to help her claim Randi's $1M prize.

Of course, the poster backtracked, citing various reasons, but not, of course, the one that was most applicable -- that she couldn't do it. I'd love to see an actual manifestation of visible light -- but I don't think anyone can do it through purely mental/psychic/magical means.

...As I explained previously.

Maybe next time you should read the previous posts before making a fool of yourself, hmmm?

[Zibblsnrt]

I can present to you a simple step by step process to manipulate time in a fashion that allows you to accomplish a 2 hour trip in 1 hr and 30 min, with out exceeding posted speed limits.

I assure you, I am not some crackpot occultist out for glory. My reluctance to publish my results is due to the rather intense objection to such things in the formal academic field and my lack of credentials.

Assuming this process exists, what's preventing you from 'publishing' it here or wherever else you want?

[9-2-2]

...And I cannot emphasize strongly enough how amused I am by people who will jump into a conversation without knowing what's going on, sitting safe in the entrenchments of their own ignorance while they make pronouncements about things they don't know about.

I most humbly apologize for sitting in my own entrenchment of ignorance! </sarcasm>

I am actually not the kind of person to sit in *any* entrenchment of ignorance at all. It's laughable that you would jump to that conclusion over a discussion of psi-balls. I wonder if a worse emotional reaction would occur on a more serious debate! :fpoke: :-P


A previous poster claimed to be able to manifest psi-balls which could illuminate a room -- that is, which could generate light to be seen by anyone there. While I believe in the ability to create balls of energy (though I find calling them 'psi-balls' pretentious,) I have not seen any credible evidence that these could produce electromagnetic radiation strong enough to be seen -- or detected through any other means.

Then we are on two different wavelengths. To some, a psi-ball would be as you defined; a ball of energy entrenched on the physical level enough to illuminate a room. Yet to others, a psi-ball would be a ball of energy that can exist on any energetic level. I have provided some quotes at the end of this post as an example of how the definitions on psiballs differ - so please, before you continue being rude to me, you should be more *specific* on which definition you are trying to acheive.


Maybe next time you should read the previous posts before making a fool of yourself, hmmm?

I haven't made a fool of myself. I have read the previous posts, and different definitions of psi-balls were given, thanks. You might want to remember that before acting so condescending, assuming, and arrogant, and thus making a fool of yourself. It seems almost impossible these days to enter a conversation on MW without one or more people being condescending and superior.

I gave some valid reasons why *I* don't think it's a good idea to record strong psychic phenomena, and I will restate them here for you, in plain writing:

1) If the government got a hold of footage of phenomena, such as turning back time, lighting up a room, or sending knives flying across the room, that person would likely disappear into a laboratory.
2) If fundamentalists of any religion got a hold of the footage, the psychic in question would likely be hunted down out of fear and hatred. Houses get raided, cars get firebombed, the psychic's children would be harassed in school, etc.

Those are two rather damn good practical reasons why one shouldn't go "Lookee lookee!!" and manifest energy on the physical in front of millions of sleepers watching TV and surfing the internet. And then again, if someone actaully did manifest psychic activity on the physical level, and then recorded it, then the watchers would attribute such phenomena to swamp gas, a hoax, or computer graphics *anyway*.

As for Randi and his $1 mil - he can go screw himself. He could get blindsided by 50 curses and blame it on the economy or something.

For the record...



In its basics, a psi ball is a ball of energy, usually created by a person between their hands, using various methods of projection and concentration.



The psiball is a small ball of psionic energy usually used for amusement or practice by beginners.



A psi ball is claimed to be a psionic construct that is usually formed into a spherical shape by a practitioner of psionics, to be used in a variety of ways. Those who believe in their existence assert that they can be formed in a variety of different shapes, sizes and temperatures, depending on the creator's wishes and that they may also be formed at any location, even if the location is external to the creator's vision. Some people even believe these locations can include other dimensions, planes, or domains.

[WiccanGoddess]

I believe psiballs exist. I haven't produced my own, but I have seen one produced by a friend. Effort taken lead to results. I believe what I see, and I saw.

[cydira]

I'd be happy to present it.

Though I must admit, the atmosphere of hostility makes me somewhat disinclined to do so.

That said:

At the beginning of your trip, fix the target arrival time in your mind firmly. Maintain this mental focus for the course of your trip. During this time, do not look at a clock or otherwise observe what the current time is as you are travling. Observe all traffic rules and drive as you usually would.

Roughly 85% of the time, you will arrive within 5 to 10 min of your target time. I discovered by accident that this process could be used to shorten the time travling to a given location by roughly a third of the time usually taken when not maintaining this mental focus.

As of this time, I've had about 20 different associates of mine attempt this little experiment. Including individuals timing the trips with one vehicle used as a control with out using the mental focus. Distances traveled did not change, the speeds recorded for the vehicles did not change, as cruise control was applied, thus leaving the only explination possible is that time itself had changed in some fashion.

Different watches and clocks were used, all set to the same time as the National Clock.

[9-2-2]

I'd be happy to present it.

Though I must admit, the atmosphere of hostility makes me somewhat disinclined to do so.

You know, you are right. I can be rather mean sometimes, so I am just going to disengage my snippiness... it's JUST a conversation about psiballs, not life or death, lol.

I can make psiballs, but not ones that make the room explode with light. I make ones that heal or hurt people very seriously. I can work on making one that lights up... I am presuming the energy required is the same used in TK - tk I can do with time :-)

[Sev]

I most humbly apologize for sitting in my own entrenchment of ignorance!


As well you should. Thank you. ;)



Then we are on two different wavelengths. To some, a psi-ball would be as you defined; a ball of energy entrenched on the physical level enough to illuminate a room. Yet to others, a psi-ball would be a ball of energy that can exist on any energetic level. I have provided some quotes at the end of this post as an example of how the definitions on psiballs differ - so please, before you continue being rude to me, you should be more *specific* on which definition you are trying to acheive.


And this is why I called you ignorant. All of my most recent posts -- including the one you responded to -- were in response to a person who claimed to be able to produce visible light via a psi-ball.

[cydira]

I'm generally indifferent to the snippiness of others. I find it distasteful when some one that is seeking to understand something in the spirit of scientific inquiry engages in mockery of some one presenting a claim to have a result that is dramatically different from that which is expected or has been produced thus far.

It doesn't exactly bode well for an academic discussion. I had gotten the impression that was what the goal of this discussion was- an academic discussion as to the verified existance of psi-balls (if this is the agreed term for the phenomena we're discussing).

I can understand that I may seem like some random crackpot pagan that claims to know all of these wonderful mystical magical things, possibly starting out from when I got my first decoder-ring from the cereal box when I was in my single digits. Alot of individuals that present arguments like I did have only a passing familiarity with the scientific method, usually enough to abhor it. I'm not going to claim that I'm some wunderkind and that I'll present the cure for cancer as I prove all occult truths are accurate with advanced physics and whip up a souffle that would make Martha Stuart green with envy.

You don't know me from any other person. I may or may not be that random crackpot. I'm rather offended that I haven't been given the opportunity to prove if I am or am not such a person before you chose to heap caustic wit on top of my statements in the effort to ridicule them. The grand magnaminous show of stooping to my level and admitting that you're "striving" to accomplish what I have, making a pointed effort of being surfeit in the hopes I continue to prattle on, is more telling of yourself then anything else.

It's a shame, actually, that such arrogance comes between you and the opportunity to actually prove something. I was going to express willingness to work with you in producing an experiment to prove this. I was going to discuss with you experimental set up and what would be a good method to run with, if a double-blind would be appropriate or not, for example. Looking at the reception that my statements have had on this thread, I just see people who need to feed their egos at the expense of others.

Good luck with your search to prove something. I doubt that you'll find anyone who will be willing to assist you if you maintain this approach. And those who have jumped onto the bandwagon to look good in the eyes of the reasoned observer, I'm not terribly impressed with you either.

Such individuals heaped scorn upon Einstine when he first presented his theory of General Relativity. They also scorned Heisenberg for his Uncertianty Principle. Two concepts that have shaped the physics that was used to develop the very computers we're using to read this text. History forgot those people rather quickly.

[Sev]

I can understand that I may seem like some random crackpot pagan that claims to know all of these wonderful mystical magical things, possibly starting out from when I got my first decoder-ring from the cereal box when I was in my single digits. Alot of individuals that present arguments like I did have only a passing familiarity with the scientific method, usually enough to abhor it. I'm not going to claim that I'm some wunderkind and that I'll present the cure for cancer as I prove all occult truths are accurate with advanced physics and whip up a souffle that would make Martha Stuart green with envy.


If you are indeed able to produce psi-balls which give off a detectable amount of light, then I think you would indeed qualify as a wunderkind. ;)



You don't know me from any other person. I may or may not be that random crackpot. I'm rather offended that I haven't been given the opportunity to prove if I am or am not such a person before you chose to heap caustic wit on top of my statements in the effort to ridicule them. The grand magnaminous show of stooping to my level and admitting that you're "striving" to accomplish what I have, making a pointed effort of being surfeit in the hopes I continue to prattle on, is more telling of yourself then anything else.


On the contrary. I made an offer to document and verify your claims. You ignored that offer.



It's a shame, actually, that such arrogance comes between you and the opportunity to actually prove something. I was going to express willingness to work with you in producing an experiment to prove this. I was going to discuss with you experimental set up and what would be a good method to run with, if a double-blind would be appropriate or not, for example. Looking at the reception that my statements have had on this thread, I just see people who need to feed their egos at the expense of others.


Ummm...yeah. That's why you went from "I can do this" and "Otherwise, I'd do it (the Randi challenge,) it'd be fun" to backpedaling and then this post.

For what it's worth, a double-blind experiment wouldn't be necessary, since you claim to be able to illuminate rooms with a psi-ball. All that would be needed would be multiple cameras, a dark room, and extended exposures.



Such individuals heaped scorn upon Einstine when he first presented his theory of General Relativity. They also scorned Heisenberg for his Uncertianty Principle. Two concepts that have shaped the physics that was used to develop the very computers we're using to read this text. History forgot those people rather quickly.

Alas, you don't rank along with Einstein, or Heisenberg, or even Mendel. The difference between you and them is that they formed hypotheses, conducted repeatable experiments, and documented them. You claim to be a follower of the scientific method, yet you haven't documented a spectacular, world-changing claim with an experiment which requires nothing more than an old borrowed camera, a cable-release, and some cheap film.

The thing I find truly infuriating about your comment is that you make such a big deal about academic discussion and science, and, yet, you don't seem to understand that, in academic discussion, extraordinary claims require proof, and, though you seem to consider yourself a scientist, you're willing to do the massive disservice to the entire scientific community of not correcting hundreds of years of accumulated, well, wrongness when it comes to what it thinks about paranormal activities. The fields of medicine, psychology, and, indeed, even Physics are rife with assumptions and conclusions that would be turned on their head if you could do what you claim to be able to.

The difference between Einstein and you is that Einstein took the criticisms of his peers who didn't believe in his claims -- and showed them that they were wrong.

[Xander67]

I feel that just because someone doesn't create a psi ball, or energy ball, does not neccessarily mean that they are not able to...

there are plenty of willing volunteers who have thier psi balls on film that are available online, a reasonable amount of searching will yeild them.. I am sure they would be most willing to take you up on your offer..

I will not vouch for the validity of the films or the photos, but they are there none the less.. people are willing to put themselves out there like that..

Just because someone chooses not to does not give any justification to call them a phoney or a fraud. I call them smart.. it is up to them whether or not they want to be hunted down like a dog and put in some research facility against thier will...

[Sev]

Just because someone chooses not to does not give any justification to call them a phoney or a fraud. I call them smart.. it is up to them whether or not they want to be hunted down like a dog and put in some research facility against thier will...

Excuse me while I roll my eyes.

*rolls his eyes, gets ... seven.*

I'm kind of sick of hearing the "OMFG I'd be vivisected if I showed my TRU3 MAG1K P0W4R!" excuse. Or maybe it's just that people aren't imaginative enough to figure out how to manipulate the system. If you -did- have some real powers, you'd be much more likely to be dissapeared if you 'hid' them -- but were still showing them off to friends and aquaintances -- than if you came out publicly with the claim and evidence. I figure that showing off whatever it is that the person is claiming to be able to do on Oprah or something similar would be sufficient.

[Xander67]

well, I've already stated my view. and you are entitled to your opinion,
I guess we will agree to dissagree then..

[coaxialkettle]

our karma gets worn out
and in prison i repented my desire
to shine before ordinary men...
fannity wear