The problems of astrology...

[mickal555]

If I was born on neptune which has a huge orbit the sun will be in contallations for ages, a whole generation will have the same sign...

And what if I was born on pluto, which has a whole different set of zodiac, you'd have to go back 4000years(or howerver old astrology is)[go back that far because thats what they do here when working out the zodiac, because they don't include Ophiuchus] work out what the zodiac were then, then find that I was born under the sign of microscopium the microscope, which is just 3 really faint stars...

[RedRose]

Hi mickal55,

Why is that a problem with astrology? Beings born on Pluto would have everything different from us, including astrology of course. That is very true.

Are you wondering if astrology works? Or why it works?

Everyday, here at MysticWicks we do charts for annonymous strangers under cloak of screenname. We give very specific information. Request a scope, get a reading and see how accurate it is. See if it works for you, or not.

Because astrology is about you, not Pluto. Pluto, the ice-rock in the sky, doesn't have a lot to do with anything, in truth. Rather it is tapping into the universal unconscious, as Jung called it - humanities' shared symbol and archetype systems - that is powerful.

Astrology assumes at it's core, that the Cosmos, the whole of Creation, and the Creator are One and the same. Creator/Creation can communicate and does, in myriad ways, all the time.

RedRose

[KEishin]

If I were born on Pluto, assuming I could survive the chilly temperatures, the zodiac would be the same constellations (with some distortion). Don't confuse constellations with the zodiac - they just have the same names. (Zodiac is a plural word, which emcompasses multiple constellations, not singular.) A couple of millenia ago the two were one and the same but over the years they have shifted apart. I'm sure that's why you brought up the Ophiuchus debate. Tropical astrology uses angles of the sky, not constellations which is why it's not been a huge problem to adapt. So if I were born between 44 and 45 degrees from the spring equinox point then I'd be a Taurus, even if the sun was sitting in Aries at that point, which it was.

You are correct in saying planets would appear to be in only one sign, but remember that astrology is MORE than your Sun sign. I know plenty of people who have most of their planets in one sign and were born right here on Earth - one person I know of born in 1989 had all 10 planets but Jupiter in Capricorn!

But RedRose is absolutely right - are you trying to figure out how astrology works or if it works? I invite you have your own chart read by a reader here or to ask anybody who's had their chart read here if they think astrology works. I'm willing to bet the majority of them would agree that even if they don't know why it works, they would say astrology does work.

We're not asking you to believe in astrology to hang out here and ask questions. In fact, a genuine, open-minded skeptic can be refreshing. We believe in astrology and our belief does not require anyone else to concur. Simple as that. :)

[business voodoo]

hi!

as for the constellation Ophiuchus, there are some of us astrologers who incorporate that constellation in their work ... and there are some that would never considering casting a chart without using that 13th constellation ... i use it on some occasions, depending on the person. = )

i happen to think the serpent bearer is a critical constellation that astrologers will begin to work with more and more as our evolution continues into the realm of the homo sapien sapien beings we are transitioning to during this time in our collective histories.

as for your perspective of life from a planet like pluto (now a 'dual planet' with its sister charon) or neptune ... that is an interesting concept. since we are in the solar system, an heliotropic chart can give perspective of the person from the center of our solar system, e.g., the sun.

as well, there are many astrologers, one on this forum included, who use other stars in the cosmos as they relate to the chart and person living here on earth. while there is yet to be a program created to do it, it has been proposed to chart the galaxies around the galactic center as well ... all in good time as our persective and abilities to understand the greater reality and other dimensions of existence increase and we are able to actually calculate and/or use that information.

great questions though ... some of the types of questions we astrologers think about for fun, enjoyment, intrigue and insight.

[mickal555]

Hi mickal55,

Why is that a problem with astrology? Beings born on Pluto would have everything different from us, including astrology of course. That is very true.

Really?

Even if it was a normal baby person who came back to earth and normally, there lives would be completly differn't to ours.



Are you wondering if astrology works? Or why it works?

Everyday, here at MysticWicks we do charts for annonymous strangers under cloak of screenname. We give very specific information. Request a scope, get a reading and see how accurate it is. See if it works for you, or not.

OK,

Why would it not work though? How good are your success rates?


Because astrology is about you, not Pluto. Pluto, the ice-rock in the sky, doesn't have a lot to do with anything, in truth. Rather it is tapping into the universal unconscious, as Jung called it - humanities' shared symbol and archetype systems - that is powerful.

Astrology assumes at it's core, that the Cosmos, the whole of Creation, and the Creator are One and the same. Creator/Creation can communicate and does, in myriad ways, all the time.

RedRose


So... pluto doesn't really do anything- is it just tea leave reading and chicken entails.

[mickal555]

If I were born on Pluto, assuming I could survive the chilly temperatures, the zodiac would be the same constellations (with some distortion). Don't confuse constellations with the zodiac - they just have the same names. (Zodiac is a plural word, which emcompasses multiple constellations, not singular.) A couple of millenia ago the two were one and the same but over the years they have shifted apart. I'm sure that's why you brought up the Ophiuchus debate. Tropical astrology uses angles of the sky, not constellations which is why it's not been a huge problem to adapt. So if I were born between 44 and 45 degrees from the spring equinox point then I'd be a Taurus, even if the sun was sitting in Aries at that point, which it was.

Yes that would be why I brought it up.

How come the positions of the stars ages ago matter now, why was it so special then?


You are correct in saying planets would appear to be in only one sign, but remember that astrology is MORE than your Sun sign. I know plenty of people who have most of their planets in one sign and were born right here on Earth - one person I know of born in 1989 had all 10 planets but Jupiter in Capricorn!
Sounds like a nice conjunction. :)


But RedRose is absolutely right - are you trying to figure out how astrology works or if it works? I invite you have your own chart read by a reader here or to ask anybody who's had their chart read here if they think astrology works. I'm willing to bet the majority of them would agree that even if they don't know why it works, they would say astrology does work.
'k I'll do that :)


We're not asking you to believe in astrology to hang out here and ask questions. In fact, a genuine, open-minded skeptic can be refreshing. We believe in astrology and our belief does not require anyone else to concur. Simple as that. :)

Just woundering why you'd believe it...

[mickal555]

hi!

as for the constellation Ophiuchus, there are some of us astrologers who incorporate that constellation in their work ... and there are some that would never considering casting a chart without using that 13th constellation ... i use it on some occasions, depending on the person. = )

What makes you decide to use it on one person and not another...


i happen to think the serpent bearer is a critical constellation that astrologers will begin to work with more and more as our evolution continues into the realm of the homo sapien sapien beings we are transitioning to during this time in our collective histories.

as for your perspective of life from a planet like pluto (now a 'dual planet' with its sister charon) or neptune ... that is an interesting concept. since we are in the solar system, an heliotropic chart can give perspective of the person from the center of our solar system, e.g., the sun.


as well, there are many astrologers, one on this forum included, who use other stars in the cosmos as they relate to the chart and person living here on earth. while there is yet to be a program created to do it, it has been proposed to chart the galaxies around the galactic center as well ... all in good time as our persective and abilities to understand the greater reality and other dimensions of existence increase and we are able to actually calculate and/or use that information.

great questions though ... some of the types of questions we astrologers think about for fun, enjoyment, intrigue and insight.
I'm afraid I don't really understand... :(

[KEishin]

How come the positions of the stars ages ago matter now, why was it so special then?
Why is the Prime Meridian positioned in England? Because someone said "hey I want this to be here," and a whole bunch more people agreed. That and England was the major power of the time and would have been rather miffed if someone didn't agree they were the center of the world. :hahugh:

I'm not saying I think we were right to not update the zodiac with the times, but I'm not saying it's wrong either. It just is the way it's usually done in the west. Many people find success with changing the zodiac to match the constellations - Business Voodoo for one is a successful sidereal astrologer. It's not my thing, simply because I haven't been able to put in enough time to thoroughly study it to my satisfaction. (I've got too many things in line ahead of it! Maybe one day when I win the lottery and have the leisure to go take every educational class and read every book I can find . . . )



We're not asking you to believe in astrology to hang out here and ask questions. Just woundering why you'd believe it...

Because it works. :)
And I've been able to repeatedly test its efficacy on all sorts of people and situations. The track record, while not perfect, is much higher than random chance or luck would suggest.

Honestly, I started studying astrology to prove to myself if there was any truth to it. Like most Americans all I knew about the topic was from those vague Sun-sign readings in the newspaper and the freaky, late-night psychic-ripoff infomercials. So I took it upon myself to figure it out as best I could. I recall that my reaction when I had my first *professional* reading was amazement, followed by a burning curiousity to figure how they did that. (This reading wasn't done in person where the reader could gauge their accuracy by my body language. I specifically sent away for a mail-order chart to avoid that complication.)

I am a born skeptic - I'm an untrusting, cynical, "prove it to me first" kind of person. But that doesn't mean I'm a close-minded skeptic either; the burden of proof is on me to disprove it, as much as it's on the other to prove it. It's another one of those "I don't know why it works, just that it does," things.

[RedRose]

<<Really?

Even if it was a normal baby person who came back to earth and normally, there lives would be completly differn't to ours. >> mickal555,



What you say? A "normal baby" born on Pluto, who comes back to earth?

Humans live on earth and it is humanity (not aliens or elephants) who came up with astrology and astronomy amd alchemy and chemistry and the rest. Humans can't live on Pluto and even here on earth it is only humans who practice art and science, written language, religion and rhetoric.


<<Why would it not work though? How good are your success rates?>> mickal555,


The only important question is how good my success rate would be with YOU. Test me and find out. As for me I am interested to find out if you are an innocent who is sincerely curious, or if you are an common troller, out to promote Scientism, or Christianity by crashing and invading a Pagan forum with intent to burn old witches like me.

<<So... pluto doesn't really do anything- is it just tea leave reading and chicken entails.>> mickal555


JUST TEA LEAVE READING? JUST TAROT? JUST DIVINATION???

Did you say "chicken entrails"? Do you believe all Pagans sacrifice chickens?

I find this very offensive. I imagine you invade Buddhist forums and insult them too?

But then again, you might be a youngster, so I will try to answer your question and see if you will post your birth info and let us show you what your horoscope says about you.

Yes, astrology is an ancient divination art/science, and yes, Pluto is a "symbol" within astrology, linked to an ancient Western mythological figure, that of Hades.

I personally believe that astrology was sourced by and is aimed at humans. I believe that astrology (as we know it) is about earth; about seasons and cycles of nature, and also the waxing and waning psychological/sociological weather patterns.

Again, the symbols used in the astrological model are the planets etc. and they work together a bit like a big clock. I don't know if astrology works for you but I know it works for me, and it is a fun hobby.

I love to explore ancient symbol systems just for fun, whether they "work" or not.

RedRose

[business voodoo]

What makes you decide to use it on one person and not another...

I'm afraid I don't really understand... :(

just as the genetics of one child may produce brown hair and brown eyes, the same 'pool of genes' can produce a blond hair, blue eyed child ... astrology i find is similar. some individuals are highly representated by say the 'asteroids' and those related symbols, others by all of the planets or some of them, some can be found in various assortment of fixed stars, asteroids, planets ... and i won't even get into the system of symbols such as the vedic astrology versus the tropical astrology ... the pool of symbols available with astrology is as large as a small, but deep ocean.

i have often found 'themes' of symbol relevance in a family or even a collective group of people, but in individuals, their connection to the plethora of symbols represented by astrology is as vast as the stars in the sky and just as unique.

since my studies began in numerology i look for the 'constants' of numbers to help me connect the astrology symbols to the person and the rest is complete intuition, what comes to mind when looking at the chart ... the path of the white rabbit so to speak that comes from looking at the charts of the person.

i think accuracy for me comes from 'connecting to their consciousness' ... something that requires continual consciousness about and awareness to. i find online is much more difficult than via the phone or live. which is why i have enjoyed my experience here, especially the feedback ... developing the 'connection' muscle is like anything else, takes practice. interestingly, i have found that connection with tarot easier than with astrology.

for instance, if you are a normal person, watches tv like the average everyday person, goes to your job, reads the papers and watches the news and just takes things in an everyday kind of way, i could not just go deep into your roots from the sirius solar system or that the purpose of your life is to bring the thought patterns and consciousness levels from a different dimension to this earthly plane of existence ... i've been dead wrong in the consciousness connection with people, especially over the internet, which doesn't make my reading 'wrong', but it can prove to be not very relevant to that person at that point in their life.

i hope that helps you understand ...

[Fluffmeister]

If I was born on neptune which has a huge orbit the sun will be in contallations for ages, a whole generation will have the same sign...

And what if I was born on pluto, which has a whole different set of zodiac, you'd have to go back 4000years(or howerver old astrology is)[go back that far because thats what they do here when working out the zodiac, because they don't include Ophiuchus] work out what the zodiac were then, then find that I was born under the sign of microscopium the microscope, which is just 3 really faint stars...


Astrology works for people born on Earth.

I've not yet met anyone who was born on Neptune or Pluto, but if I do I'm prepared to accept that the astrology I use might not work for them.