Pluto's New Domain

[Keith Dragon]

I know the demotion of Pluto as a planet might at first seem emotional, but when you begin to look at the positive consequences of what this means, you will see that Pluto will end up being one of the most powerful entities in Astrology, so rest easy my Scorpio Friends.

Who was Pluto? or in Greek, Hades? He was God of the Underworld, separated from the rest of the Gods. He had his own domain that was mostly darkness.

Pluto has awesome power, and how can he project that power as such a small planet. Pluto needs to be free to wield that power. Free of the other Planets, and King of his own domain where, in time, in the Deep Kuiper Belt, Pluto will find billions of subjects, more than any of the Planet could ever hope to brag home about. Pluto already has the assistance of Quaor, Sedna, and Xena, and many more will come.

However, within this new domain, order must be had, otherwise, we will be surrounded by Chaos, and many rogue Gods with no sense of tradition. Pluto is taking this upon himself to bring order to this Outerworld Chaos. But he cannot do that as a planet. Those out there in the new domain will not respect him, he must become one of them.

Pluto signifies Death and Rebirth, and many comets pass through his gates from the outer solar system to the inner. Things carriers of life and death, that is comets, need some one to order them. This is Pluto. And with the help of Charon, helps their transition from Chaos to Order, and then back again.

Pluto's power sometimes is overwhelming, and the illusion is that such a great power comes from something so small. But then again, Pluto's realm completely surrounds us, and when all that mass, that is spread out through the Kuiper Belt is combined, it is potentially greater than all the other planets combined.

Pluto's wardrobe as a planet, is an illusion, not to hide from us, but so we are not overwhelmed by his power. We can relate.

His power is holistic , and all incompassing.

It is not a demotion for Pluto, but an evolution into his true role.

Pluto keeps us in order, but to do this, must have the eyes of an outside observer, and as a planet, he cannot do this. But must have eyes everywhere, watching us from all points. This cannot be done as a planet, but can be done as a field of consciousness, or a collective of multiple small objects spread out of long distances.

Pluto is not losing power, but gaining power.

[Shanti]

Awesome post!!! :)

[LostSheep]

Um, excuse me for butting in: is there really a planet called Xena?

[Keith Dragon]

Um, excuse me for butting in: is there really a planet called Xena?

It is not an official name, but it is the name the discoverer gave to it until a formal name is determined. The discoverer wants to call it Xena.

Also, when it was found, it was thought to have a moon which was nicknamed, Gabrielle. But it was later found that the moon did not exist.

http://www.space.com/spacenews/archive06/Planet_041706.html

[Krowe]

Well.. I understand where you are coming from. And I agree with some of the aspects of your post. Actually.. Many of them.. I just don't like it. I am a Scorpio, so yes I do have some emotional investment in this, but my biggest gripe about this is where it is going to leave us in terms of astrology. Are we to assume that Pluto is no longer the ruling "planet" of Scorpio and it's inherant house? Are we supposed to start taking consideration for Xena and the many other "dwarf planets" just to get an accurate read on what we used to rely on Pluto for? And also... This whole thing about "double planets" like Charon and Pluto... Should we start referring to Io and Ganymede and such as planets, or do they stay as satellites? I mean... My biggest gripe is about how we are supposed to re-define astrology surrounding all this.

Peace!

Krowe

[KEishin]

Io and Ganymede couldn't be considered planets, as they orbit Jupiter, unless the rules get changed drastically.

As far as the redefinition of astrology . . . I take my normal stance - when the fights start, find high ground and wait until the mayhem and carnage subsides. We'll see what happens. :)

[Shanti]

I am wondering about this astrology issue.
At one point in time humans did not know Pluto existed. We thought the world was flat too at one point in time.

Astrology of that time added Pluto to its philosophies.

So if Astrology adapted then, why can it not adapt now, as things are newly found and understood?

I don't see why change is a problem. Doesn't astrology change with time too? It must I would think, since it had did add planets as planets where discovered in the first place.

[business voodoo]

His power is holistic , and all incompassing.
***
Pluto is not losing power, but gaining power.

i so agree with your posting ... as i feel the kuiper belt is something that interacts our solar system with the rest of the galaxy ...

as for pluto becoming holistic, i think that happened as the result of the 'upping' of charon from merely a 'satalite' to being an equal ... 'and the two shall become one', the exact symbol of visca pisces, as well as it relates to the oval, the highest form of unity in the hindu faith ... in the history astrological symbology battle that occurred in the 1950-60's, there was an equal sided debate about the meaning of pluto under another name of 'minerva', the goddess of wisdom. pluto with one glyph, minerva with the other ... now with the equalizing of the 'pluton planets' to be equal, they can rule the otherworld in harmony at the highest level.

pluto definitely did not lose any power, his remains the same; he just gained his equal to go about his work on a higher level.

[scorpiochick77]

Oh my!! I'm so confused now.:lol:

[_Banbha_]

Oh my!! I'm so confused now.:lol:

Me too. :lol:

i so agree with your posting ... as i feel the kuiper belt is something that interacts our solar system with the rest of the galaxy ...

So...Scorpio's gets the whole Kuiper belt? Not that we didn't already have it. :whistle:

as for pluto becoming holistic, i think that happened as the result of the 'upping' of charon from merely a 'satalite' to being an equal ... 'and the two shall become one', the exact symbol of visca pisces, as well as it relates to the oval, the highest form of unity in the hindu faith ... in the history astrological symbology battle that occurred in the 1950-60's, there was an equal sided debate about the meaning of pluto under another name of 'minerva', the goddess of wisdom. pluto with one glyph, minerva with the other ... now with the equalizing of the 'pluton planets' to be equal, they can rule the otherworld in harmony at the highest level.

pluto definitely did not lose any power, his remains the same; he just gained his equal to go about his work on a higher level.

Interesting. I hadn't known about the Minerva name debate.

[KEishin]

Well it's offical - we have 8 planets again.
Pluto is no longer considered a planet. It's more properly a "dwarf planet." (I like "planette" better :lol: )

RESOLUTION 5A
The IAU therefore resolves that "planets" and other bodies in our Solar System be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:

(1) A "planet"1 is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.

(2) A "dwarf planet" is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape2 , (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.

(3) All other objects3 except satellites orbiting the Sun shall be referred to collectively as "Small Solar-System Bodies".

1The eight planets are: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.
2An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either dwarf planet and other categories.
3These currently include most of the Solar System asteroids, most Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs), comets, and other small bodies.

From http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.org/iau0603/index.html

[KEishin]

Shanti, (and anyone else) these discussions might help you:
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=137399
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=137439

[Shanti]

Shanti, (and anyone else) these discussions might help you:
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=137399
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=137439
Thank you but, I'm not having a prob and have been to the other threads.
I am trying to wonder why, to some, pluto's change in science is so upsetting to those into astrology.

That's why I posted about the astrology angle. :)

[KEishin]

Aha.
Well it upset the tidy little apple cart! I was raised with the idea of Pluto ruling Scorpio so I expect it'll take some adjustments.

I believe the fear, and that's what it is (anger is just fear in disguise) is that by demoting Pluto Astrology could lose validity. On the order of "well you guys told me Pluto ruled my Sun. Now it doesn't? Wtf.? Astrology is worthless." I sincerely hope that's not the result of this. But there are always those who hate change and resist it kicking and screaming.

[Keith Dragon]

The Dalai Llama once spoke of the fact that he noticed how the Buddhist concept of the "science" of the world, and what was seen in science itself did not match. So, he made it one of his priorities to study science to understand it. It led him to the realization that all spiritual models of the Universe must first and foremost match with the observations of the people of the time. If new observations are made that conflict with mythologies or dogma of the past, it is the spiritual leaders responsibility to help transition the evolution of new enlightening knowledge. This was in his book "The Unvierse in a Single Atom"

I say this because there is no spiritual or religious group or organization that has not evolved due to new found knowledge and forced to face paradox.

Astrology has continually re-invented itself. When it was first used, Uranus and Neptune hadn't even been discovered, much less Pluto. And even as recently as 1985, you have Astrologers using Chiron as a sort of planet, which I feel is more of a marketing ploy.

It is foolish to think that everything that will ever be known, our generation currently knows. When we first discovered Pluto, we didn't quite know what else to call it because it defied all definition of what we knew of celestial bodies. As time went on, more Pluto-like objects were found. And Pluto's type began to reveal itself.

I think Astrology is ready to a leap into a more dynamic system where we have entities that are not point related systems, like planets, but rather add the concept of field energy into the system.

In my honest opinion, Astrology is still in it's infancy. What I mean by that is that we still have much to learn how and especially why it works.

But most importantly of all, Astrology would look more valid if it reflects scientific observations, and not fight it. Otherwise, Astologists will begin to appear like the Vatican when it was opposing a heliocentric solar system.

Also, due to its' infancy, Astrology still has a bigger entity to begin to interpret effects upon us, and the is the galactic center, and only now are we even coming closer to seeing that effect. Sag A* is the most massive entity in the galaxy, and we are revolving around it, so it very well is effecting us. But How?

Not only that. There is a bigger crises in Astrology than whether or not Pluto is a planet, but the fact that the entire wheel is out of alignment by one sign. That is, due to the procession of the equinoxes, you may think you are Taurus, and according to Astrology as we know it, you are. However, technically, and scientifically, you are an Aries. That is, the sun no longer rises in your sign on the first day of Spring.

This is known amongst astrologers, but I have yet to hear an adequate resolution to this dilema.

And just because we have been interpretting something wrong for so long does not mean that it was all a waste of time, but rather, through the slight errors, we understand the system more, and Astrology becomes more valid, atleast in the subjective side of things.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

[Fluffmeister]

Wonderful post, Keith Dragon - thanks for sharing!

I hope this means that Xena will finally get a proper name. The astronomer who discovered her says he has a name in mind that is waiting for approval - but he won't tell us what it is yet except that it draws on "a different culture".

[KEishin]

If we go with the name "Xena," my concern is that everyone will want to name future objects after television stars/characters. (Of course they ARE the mythological heros of our time, but still . . . if an object gets named after Tom Cruise or MacGyver I'm going to laugh . . . )

[Fluffmeister]

If we go with the name "Xena," my concern is that everyone will want to name future objects after television stars/characters. (Of course they ARE the mythological heros of our time, but still . . . if an object gets named after Tom Cruise or MacGyver I'm going to laugh . . . )

I don't think it will be Xena - that's not the name Mike Brown (her discoverer) wants, just a sort of "holding name".

Mind you, they name *asteroids* after just about anything :)

[business voodoo]

Not only that. There is a bigger crises in Astrology than whether or not Pluto is a planet, but the fact that the entire wheel is out of alignment by one sign. That is, due to the procession of the equinoxes, you may think you are Taurus, and according to Astrology as we know it, you are. However, technically, and scientifically, you are an Aries. That is, the sun no longer rises in your sign on the first day of Spring.

This is known amongst astrologers, but I have yet to hear an adequate resolution to this dilema.


i don't think there's a crisis ...

i believe the 'out of alignment' is due to the calendar issue we are also currently facing, inasmuch as the gregorian calendar has "locked" the same energy time/calendar structure based on ptolemy's work (and that is the calendar that locks all of the business/money/economic exchanges on planet earth) ... textbooks and teaching cycles, morals and philosophies are being introduced based on generational sequences that serve the purpose of the locked calendar/prevailing energies, relating back to religious attachments of the christian church as pope gregory & the jesuits are the 'masters' or creators of the current time/calendar system. in fact, the jesuits even 'realigned' the "traditional" chinese calendar in the 16th century.

both zodiacs are relevant ... e.g., the 'tropical zodiac' (or the one about a constellation off) is the "world" as we see it (the 'world' meaning the mainstream masses and the prevailing energy), and the 'sidereal zodiac' or a astrological chart based on the 'reality' of the planets in the constellations (and as i study more and more about this, all 13 of them is part of the equation as well), is a snapshot of reality or of 'what is more real' ...

as we are living in the long transition from the age of pisces and the age of aquarius (based on the system of 'astrology' ... which is why i say 'what is more real'), both views of the stars are to help the transition from 'what is, as we see it' (e.g., the illusion of reality), and 'what is, as we know it' (or need to remember it perhaps) which is reality of the truth of love, oneness, no separation, etc.

i don't think its a dilemma per se that needs to be resolved nor will be resolved until the calendar issue is taken up again and realigned with the next (higher?) vibration.

but i definitely do see the 'difference' as a tool for the evolution of consciousness. ... well, maybe it is a crisis, if that's what it takes to bring about change ... perhaps.

[plumedsnake]

That's very interesting all this pluto hades stuff, but Wasn't pluto named after the disney cartoon character. Pluto is a dog is he not? I mean, that lord of the underworld stuff sound awesome but . . . .

Secondly, whether a celestial body is a planet or not does not matter much in the zodiac. The Sun is not a planet, it's a star and yet it rules a zodiac sign, Leo. The moon is not a planet, it's a . . . (can't remember what they're called) and it rules cAncer.

HOnestly, I think many astrologers are just confusing themselves unnecessarily. I am quite glad for the mayhem this Pluto affair has caused because I've been personally attacked on other forums simply for questioning the validity of this modern rulerships of signs. I sometimes feel like going back to those forums just to gloat, but that would require more effort than I could be bothered to muster.

I've got to give Keith Dragon full marks for creativity though. :cheers:

[business voodoo]

I am quite glad for the mayhem this Pluto affair has caused because I've been personally attacked on other forums simply for questioning the validity of this modern rulerships of signs. I sometimes feel like going back to those forums just to gloat, but that would require more effort than I could be bothered to muster.

kudos to you for taking the high road ... you must have a lot of neptunian lightness to go with the plutonian nature of the debate ... good for you. transformation is harder for some than others ...

as for rulerships ... heck, i have yet to hear a convincing argument for many of the rulerships (old or new) that i just don't feel or have experienced, so i am with you on that one. i have little time or energy for anyone who says 'just cause, that't the way it is and always has been' and then repeats the same argument for the 'truth' of something that someone else has written or said. like if you repeat the same lie over and over again, it becomes 'The Truth' ... (kinda like 'iraq has weapons of mass destruction'!) ...

and i'm not sure why everyone thinks that because pluto was given a 'status' that was 'diminuitive' in stature that it someone 'reduces' or 'lessens' its impact. we have so many concepts of reality based on negative attachments and socialized programming as to what is 'good' 'better' 'less than' on the planet right now. very plutonian/minervian/charonian indeed ... is there a saying, 'less is more' ...

the power and impact of pluto (i think the disney character was named after the planet, though), is what it is and always has been ... only now there's more light shed on its true nature ...

1. it is not a singular entity, it has a partner (a rather silent until now).

2. it is the epitome of the struggle of duality working as a singular energy ... separate yet equal, individual yet together, two yet one.

3. it has a feminine partner, now of equal stature and now the collective will be better able to embody the collective energies that many astrologers (who lost the arguments back in the days of the 'heated debates') attributed to the entity that eventually became pluto.

4. it is a part of the solar system and clearly part of the kuiper belt system ... engagement and operation in two different 'realities' or 'systems' ... again, duality within one energy is a repeated signature.

5. it is truly pushing the 'sifting' required of the transformation process ... a look back on history and what was previously perceived as reality, what was presented as 'the probable', what was accepted as being 'true', the reflection on that, and the 'bomb' of new discovery to watch what falls out from all the previous thoughts, information, 'truths', 'untruths' and what 'is' on a mundane, nearly objective level, without regard to emotions. truly and completely plutonian and we should have expected little less than something like this result and debate.

** 'twill be interesting to see the direction of the debate as pluto moves direct on the 4th of september and when it conjoins the galactic center later this fall in sag of all signs!!! the fires of hades?

[Keith Dragon]

i don't think its a dilemma per se that needs to be resolved nor will be resolved until the calendar issue is taken up again and realigned with the next (higher?) vibration.


Great post, and I agree with everything. My view of the crises is not in the system itself, but in the fact that people do not know the differences you speak of exist. Only those that get deep into Astrology and study it come across the alignment evolution.

[Keith Dragon]

On a lighter side, has anyone even asked Pluto what HE wants? I mean, maybe he doesn't even want to be a planet.

[LostSheep]

That's very interesting all this pluto hades stuff, but Wasn't pluto named after the disney cartoon character. Pluto is a dog is he not? I mean, that lord of the underworld stuff sound awesome but . . . .

Secondly, whether a celestial body is a planet or not does not matter much in the zodiac. The Sun is not a planet, it's a star and yet it rules a zodiac sign, Leo. The moon is not a planet, it's a . . . (can't remember what they're called) and it rules cAncer.

HOnestly, I think many astrologers are just confusing themselves unnecessarily. I am quite glad for the mayhem this Pluto affair has caused because I've been personally attacked on other forums simply for questioning the validity of this modern rulerships of signs. I sometimes feel like going back to those forums just to gloat, but that would require more effort than I could be bothered to muster.

I've got to give Keith Dragon full marks for creativity though. :cheers:

Besides which, Pluto was only discovered in 1930, was it not, so astrology had been trucking along for a long time before that without needing to worry about it. It always seemed a bit artificial to me, reassigning signs to other planets as they're discovered.

[Fluffmeister]

That's very interesting all this pluto hades stuff, but Wasn't pluto named after the disney cartoon character. Pluto is a dog is he not? I mean, that lord of the underworld stuff sound awesome but . . . .


No. This is an urban myth, but a pretty prevalent one.

Pluto the planet was named after the god of the underworld. Disney wanted a name for their cartoon dog, and because Pluto was in the news (it had only just been discovered), they named their dog after the planet - not the other way round.

[Zibblsnrt]

Besides which, Pluto was only discovered in 1930, was it not, so astrology had been trucking along for a long time before that without needing to worry about it. It always seemed a bit artificial to me, reassigning signs to other planets as they're discovered.

Bingo.

People worrying about the astrological "significance" of Pluto's redefinition and trying to figure out how to redefine astrology to fit the facts of astrology seem to be kind of missing the point, IMO. Nothing practical has changed, never mind the fact that astrology predates our knowledge of Pluto by some thousands of years.

Basically I'm trying to figure out whence the hue and cry over all this. There's people who seem to be genuinely concerned and/or outraged at whatever astrological implications there's going to be from this. Why?

[KEishin]

Which is highly amusing when you watch the cartoon where Pluto (the dog) gets sent to hell with Mickey Mouse and is judged by a jury of angry cats after he chases a kitten through a window.

(Yes I still watch cartoons . . . deal.)
http://www.bcdb.com/bcdb/detailed.cgi?film=4120

[The High Queen of Faerie]

Secondly, whether a celestial body is a planet or not does not matter much in the zodiac. The Sun is not a planet, it's a star and yet it rules a zodiac sign, Leo. The moon is not a planet, it's a . . . (can't remember what they're called) and it rules cAncer.

HOnestly, I think many astrologers are just confusing themselves unnecessarily. I am quite glad for the mayhem this Pluto affair has caused because I've been personally attacked on other forums simply for questioning the validity of this modern rulerships of signs. I sometimes feel like going back to those forums just to gloat, but that would require more effort than I could be bothered to muster.


Definitely the best post I've seen on this thread.

Also makes me feel one hell of a lot better about this whole 'non-planet' thing. Thank you.