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Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 08:41 PM
Written in the spirit by The Good Reverend Roger (aka Little Billy).

Okay, kiddies, listen up, because I'm probably only going to be able to say this once.

One would assume that Pagans would understand at least the concept of persecution, if not the reality of it. This fact in mind, you might assume that they would be less likely to persecute others.

This is, of course, nonsense.

Humans, and other domesticated primates, tend to react to persecution by looking for someone THEY can persecute...whether this be in the home, the workplace, or even an internet forum. This is commonly known to us Doktors™ as BFLP syndrome (Big Fish, Little Pond).

You know how it goes...someone with a chip on their shoulder gets a little power, and they start looking for a marginal group to put the arm on. Why do merehumes™ act this way? Maybe they have a huge case of short man's syndrome. Perhaps they are simply bitter that nobody at the local Starbucks understands what they are trying to say. Or maybe they just found out that becoming a Pagan doesn't automatically mean you'll get to have wild nookie with hawt Pagan chicks (who worship NEWD, doncha know!).

Whatever causes it doesn't really matter, though. What DOES matter is that certain sects - the wrong sects - are fair game for stomping on. This is most often done by selective application of rules, "not noticing" the posts the person being leaned on was responding to, moving threads about the persecuted group's beliefs to Just Silly (even when they're serious)* ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Once begun, of course, it becomes an obsession to the BFLP in question.

Now, why should YOU care? "I'M not a Discordian", you say, "I don't run around saying hideous crap that nobody wants to admit, or even think about. I have nothing to worry about."

Maybe. Or maybe when the BFLP runs off the Discordians, he'll need someone ELSE to bounce off the walls when he feels inadequate...and maybe that someone will be YOU, and/or the other members of the path you follow.

What then? Will you meekly stand there, while the BFLP craps down the back of your neck? Will you tremble in fear at the possibility that you might get banned from a board where you have the privelege of being the whipping boy? I hope not. "Bob" gave you a spine for a reason.

But all of this is, obviously, crazy talk. There is no singling out of Discordians for "special attention". There is no favoritism...that's just the paranoia talking. So, kiddies, strap on your tinfoil hats, and be sure to have plenty of towels for your feces-encrusted necks.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Or kill me.

* note: The moving of threads to Just Silly was stopped by Mol, when he opened this subforum (thanks, Mol). That doesn't make the implied smear of those moves any easier to take, though.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:08 PM
I like reading your posts and all LB, your rants are usually all good and spot on...but, no one was being bounced off any walls before you got here, and if your leaving (sounds like you are) Im sure MW will be just fine. :)

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I like reading your posts and all LB, your rants are usually all good and spot on...but, no one was being bounced off any walls before you got here, and if your leaving (sounds like you are) Im sure MW will be just fine. :)


1. That's not how I hear it. Hell, I orginally CAME here because someone I knew was being given "the treatment".

2. I'll leave when I get tossed out of the URL.

3. Please go on with being fine, though. No need to wait.

LB,
Will do just fine, too.

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:13 PM
:fpraise: http://poee.co.uk/images/pwned4xd.gif ========> I my new hero!

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:14 PM
I like reading your posts and all LB, your rants are usually all good and spot on...but, no one was being bounced off any walls before you got here, and if your leaving (sounds like you are) Im sure MW will be just fine. :)

Oh I do not argee with that :lol:

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:15 PM
:fpraise: http://poee.co.uk/images/pwned4xd.gif ========> I my new hero!


Feel free to swipe it. I swiped it myself, just a few minutes ago.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:16 PM
1. That's not how I hear it.

2. I'll leave when I get tossed out of the URL.

3. Please go on with being fine, though. No need to wait.

LB,
Will do just fine without you, too.

Well I dont know, speak up people! Does anyone have a big problem with how things are around here? If no one speaks up nothing will change. Me, I have no problems. Iv been moderated once or twice, big deal. Personally LB, I think you just finally found the web community that you couldnt destroy and your upset about it...boohoo.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:17 PM
Oh I do not argee with that :lol:

And thats OK, you can disagree...what bugs you so much about MW?

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:17 PM
Well I dont know, speak up people! Does anyone have a big problem with how things are around here? If no one speaks up nothing will change. Me, I have no problems. Iv been moderated once or twice, big deal. Personally LB, I think you just finally found the web community that you couldnt destroy and your upset about it...boohoo.


If that's the kind of person I am, then why do you speak to me?

LB,
Knows that with friends like you, who needs piranha?

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:24 PM
If that's the kind of person I am, then why do you speak to me?

LB,
Knows that with friends like you, who needs piranha?


Iv agreed with you on things before. Iv disagreed as well. Big deal, Im not your friend, Iv never sent more than 5 messages to you. You dont know me and I dont you either. If you hate it here so much, beat it.

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:25 PM
And thats OK, you can disagree...what bugs you so much about MW?

8O plenty of things bug me about the people of MW, but I doubt anyone cares. If anything, things have improved over the last year or so... but I can tell you, for all the cliquey and elitist attitudes (and I include certain discordians in this) MW is to be fair the most superior of forums I've visited... if it wasn't I would have bailed long ago.

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:26 PM
Iv agreed with you on things before. Iv disagreed as well. Big deal, Im not your friend, Iv never sent more than 5 messages to you. You dont know me and I dont you either. If you hate it here so much, beat it.

Who said I hate it here? I was complaining about a specific problem, not the board in general. But thanks for illustrating my point about it not mattering if it doesn't happen to you.

Oh, well, I guess this is why we have an ignore function.

Bye.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:27 PM
8O plenty of things bug me about the people of MW, but I doubt anyone cares. If anything, things have improved over the last year or so... but I can tell you, for all the cliquey and elitist attitudes (and I include certain discordians in this) MW is to be fair the most superior of forums I've visited... if it wasn't I would have bailed long ago.

Fair enough.

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:27 PM
8O plenty of things bug me about the people of MW, but I doubt anyone cares. If anything, things have improved over the last year or so... but I can tell you, for all the cliquey and elitist attitudes (and I include certain discordians in this) MW is to be fair the most superior of forums I've visited... if it wasn't I would have bailed long ago.

Heh. Funny thing is, I was referring to one (1) problem, and she took it to mean that I hate everyone and everything here.

Classic.

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:27 PM
Iv agreed with you on things before. Iv disagreed as well. Big deal, Im not your friend, Iv never sent more than 5 messages to you. You dont know me and I dont you either. If you hate it here so much, beat it.



you haven't so much as sent me 1 message :wah:

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:29 PM
Heh. Funny thing is, I was referring to one (1) problem, and she took it to mean that I hate everyone and everything here.

Classic.


That happens... especially when someone is part of a clique like environment... they all was the last to know (or admit) that there is or was a
clique... part of the denial involves extreme interpretations.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:30 PM
you haven't so much as sent me 1 message :wah:

lol, green karma message on the way!:lol:

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:31 PM
That happens... especially when someone is part of a clique like environment... they all was the last to know (or admit) that there is or was a
clique... part of the denial involves extreme interpretations.

169% TROOF.

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:31 PM
lol, green karma message on the way!:lol:

I don't want it! I choose to sulk instead :sadeyes:

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:32 PM
I don't want it! I choose to sulk instead :sadeyes:

To bad, I sent it 8O

Philosophia
August 28th, 2006, 09:33 PM
I agree with the most of the rant, but I don't think Discordians are picked out and put down. Maybe I haven't seen it or I have selective vision, but I've never seen any discrimination.

Starlight*Rains
August 28th, 2006, 09:34 PM
If that's the kind of person I am, then why do you speak to me?If it is any consolation at all....I absolutely love your posts!!!! I feel that you speak from the heart as well as experience and you tell it like it is. No frilly, sugar coated crap!!! I LOVE IT!!!!


LB,
Knows that with friends like you, who needs piranha?
:yayah: :yayah: Priceless!

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:34 PM
I agree with the most of the rant, but I don't think Discordians are picked out and put down. Maybe I haven't seen it or I have selective vision, but I've never seen any discrimination.

Oh I agree with LB with this... but I think he's exaggerating the situation... MW doesn't hold a candle to the persecution and elitist attitudes of many other sites.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:35 PM
That happens... especially when someone is part of a clique like environment... they all was the last to know (or admit) that there is or was a
clique... part of the denial involves extreme interpretations.

Not true, I just dont really give a shite if theres "cliques". 8O And I didnt take LBs rant to mean that he hates everyone here.

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:37 PM
Not true, I just dont really give a shite if theres "cliques". 8O And I didnt take LBs rant to mean that he hates everyone here.


Hey, you're probably part of one... I know I am... me, CHOMP CHOMP, Kaos Bunny and Hun-Tun are too good for you people!

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:38 PM
I agree with the most of the rant, but I don't think Discordians are picked out and put down. Maybe I haven't seen it or I have selective vision, but I've never seen any discrimination.

It's fairly easy to miss, unless it happens to you.

For example, try writing a decent post about something that you believe in, and have it sent to Just Silly, because a particular mod doesn't think your religion is valid.

Or be on the bottom of a dog pile (and who hasn't been there, once or twice), and get modded for responding to non-stop insults. Now, don't get me wrong...I like a good dog pile as much as anyone else, and am just as guilty as anyone else, but even when I'm not the bottom man in the pile, I wouldn't like to see a mod come put official sanction on the party, by kicking the recipient in the head, just for kicks.

Or witness the hilarity when a certain mod gets a new modding toy, and runs right out to try it on YOUR religion (and, no, it wasn't just me) for things that are done ALL the time by damn near everyone.

Of course, it's interesting to finally complain about it, and then be spit on by one of the cheerleaders. :)

LB,
Has a gutfull of spite, tonight.

Stuff like that.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:39 PM
Hey, you're probably part of one... I know I am... me, CHOMP CHOMP, Kaos Bunny and Hun-Tun are too good for you people!

Well let me tell ya now, none of you are going to be bouncing *me* off any walls....or shiting down my neck!

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:40 PM
It's fairly easy to miss, unless it happens to you.

For example, try writing a decent post about something that you believe in, and have it sent to Just Silly, because a particular mod doesn't think your religion is valid.

Or be on the bottom of a dog pile (and who hasn't been there, once or twice), and get modded for responding to non-stop insults. Now, don't get me wrong...I like a good dog pile as much as anyone else, and am just as guilty as anyone else, but even when I'm not the bottom man in the pile, I wouldn't like to see a mod come put official sanction on the party, by kicking the recipient in the head, just for kicks.

Or witness the hilarity when a certain mod gets a new modding toy, and runs right out to try it on YOUR religion (and, no, it wasn't just me) for things that are done ALL the time by damn near everyone.

Of course, it's interesting to finally complain about it, and then be spit on by one of the cheerleaders. :)

LB,
Has a gutfull of spite, tonight.

Stuff like that.


:yayah: Been There Done That... though I've never had a thread moved to Just Silly... But I'll keep working on it! SOME DAY!

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:41 PM
It's fairly easy to miss, unless it happens to you.

For example, try writing a decent post about something that you believe in, and have it sent to Just Silly, because a particular mod doesn't think your religion is valid.

Or be on the bottom of a dog pile (and who hasn't been there, once or twice), and get modded for responding to non-stop insults. Now, don't get me wrong...I like a good dog pile as much as anyone else, and am just as guilty as anyone else, but even when I'm not the bottom man in the pile, I wouldn't like to see a mod come put official sanction on the party, by kicking the recipient in the head, just for kicks.

Or witness the hilarity when a certain mod gets a new modding toy, and runs right out to try it on YOUR religion (and, no, it wasn't just me) for things that are done ALL the time by damn near everyone.

Of course, it's interesting to finally complain about it, and then be spit on by one of the cheerleaders. :)

LB,
Has a gutfull of spite, tonight.

Stuff like that.

Write an email to mol instead of stirring up shit on the boards...its the logical thing to do.

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:41 PM
Oh I agree with LB with this... but I think he's exaggerating the situation... MW doesn't hold a candle to the persecution and elitist attitudes of many other sites.


Obviously, this site is better than most, or I'd have just trolled it and left.

Still, to be shat upon by one particular mod for the better part of a year, solely due to your beliefs, gets pretty old.

So does being told that your complaint = hating it here, or hating everyone here, etc.

LB,
Misanthrope for a day.

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:41 PM
Well let me tell ya now, none of you are going to be bouncing *me* off any walls....or shiting down my neck!

Give us time...





:deviltail

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Obviously, this site is better than most, or I'd have just trolled it and left.

Still, to be shat upon by one particular mod for the better part of a year, solely due to your beliefs, gets pretty old.

So does being told that your complaint = hating it here, or hating everyone here, etc.

LB,
Misanthrope for a day.

Oh yeah... I hear yah.

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Write an email to mol instead of stirring up shit on the boards...its the logical thing to do.


Don't you have someone else to misquote?

Infinite Grey
August 28th, 2006, 09:50 PM
Don't you have someone else to misquote?

I totally misread that first up... "Don't you have someone else to mosquito?"

That would have been harsh... but amusing... though misquote works too.

Gwenhwyfar
August 28th, 2006, 09:50 PM
Don't you have someone else to misquote?

Little Billy, I really am sorry that Iv made light of your feelings, but you did come here on the wrong foot so to speak, right from the begining no? I was around your other little forum there, before you got here.:idea:

So please spare us the drama and take your complaints to Mol. And Im not a cheerleader, I dont even really know any of the admins here.

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 09:51 PM
I totally misread that first up... "Don't you have someone else to mosquito?"

That would have been harsh... but amusing... though misquote works too.

:lol:

Either way. I'm not picky.

Philosophia
August 28th, 2006, 09:58 PM
It's fairly easy to miss, unless it happens to you.
For example, try writing a decent post about something that you believe in, and have it sent to Just Silly, because a particular mod doesn't think your religion is valid.
Or be on the bottom of a dog pile (and who hasn't been there, once or twice), and get modded for responding to non-stop insults. Now, don't get me wrong...I like a good dog pile as much as anyone else, and am just as guilty as anyone else, but even when I'm not the bottom man in the pile, I wouldn't like to see a mod come put official sanction on the party, by kicking the recipient in the head, just for kicks.
Or witness the hilarity when a certain mod gets a new modding toy, and runs right out to try it on YOUR religion (and, no, it wasn't just me) for things that are done ALL the time by damn near everyone.
Of course, it's interesting to finally complain about it, and then be spit on by one of the cheerleaders. :)
LB,
Has a gutfull of spite, tonight.
Stuff like that.

:hugz: I guess I haven't been attacked except for my path and beliefs. I've been told that I'm a male hating bitch because I'm a feminist, or that I'm a revisionist because I post historically accurate facts.
I've been called a "bully", illiterate, and that I can't read basic english. Plus, I've been called a "jew hater" because I posted that I don't take sides in the past conflicts, and I've been told not to have babies because I want to work instead of staying at home.
I've also been laughed at, put down and told me that I'm conservative for my own good (especially when I advocated personal responsibiity). Thankfully, none of these have occured by admins but I have been so close to leaving MW because I've been tired of the insults, put downs, and lack of respect directed at people (not just me). I've been insulted by you, LB, and been put on ignore too.
I've also learnt a lot of different things from everybody, including the discordians. I've even changed my path and revised a lot of what I believe. Every single forum always has cliques and groups that seem better than everybody else. I've seen it and I know a couple. I also don't know whether I'm in a group or clique but if I am, so be it. I certainly didn't apply for it, thats for sure.
LB, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you're an instigator. You make people think outside their box and challenge their views. Some people don't like that and they get defensive and report you. This is what happened when the first discordians came here. Nobody rocked the boat until you came. Look how PP has flourished since you guys have come here. Look how many people talk in PP now without fear of being called names or insulted. There have been others who have come here and tried to be instigators but they've failed. I can name some who just fail to realize you can't come here and try to appear tough by insulting others. It doesn't work like that. And, fortunately LB, you didn't. You may feel angry and upset, but remember this community needs you and I believe many members do as well. The discordians challenge us and our beliefs, and I believe we need that to grow.
Thank you...
MM, who has thank you for the third person talk ,and the ability to not be shy and scared anymore. _pounce_

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 10:07 PM
:hugz: I guess I haven't been attacked except for my path and beliefs. I've been told that I'm a male hating bitch because I'm a feminist, or that I'm a revisionist because I post historically accurate facts.
I've been called a "bully", illiterate, and that I can't read basic english. Plus, I've been called a "jew hater" because I posted that I don't take sides in the past conflicts, and I've been told not to have babies because I want to work instead of staying at home.
I've also been laughed at, put down and told me that I'm conservative for my own good (especially when I advocated personal responsibiity). Thankfully, none of these have occured by admins but I have been so close to leaving MW because I've been tired of the insults, put downs, and lack of respect directed at people (not just me). I've been insulted by you, LB, and been put on ignore too.
I've also learnt a lot of different things from everybody, including the discordians. I've even changed my path and revised a lot of what I believe. Every single forum always has cliques and groups that seem better than everybody else. I've seen it and I know a couple. I also don't know whether I'm in a group or clique but if I am, so be it. I certainly didn't apply for it, thats for sure.
LB, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you're an instigator. You make people think outside their box and challenge their views. Some people don't like that and they get defensive and report you. This is what happened when the first discordians came here. Nobody rocked the boat until you came. Look how PP has flourished since you guys have come here. Look how many people talk in PP now without fear of being called names or insulted. There have been others who have come here and tried to be instigators but they've failed. I can name some who just fail to realize you can't come here and try to appear tough by insulting others. It doesn't work like that. And, fortunately LB, you didn't. You may feel angry and upset, but remember this community needs you and I believe many members do as well. The discordians challenge us and our beliefs, and I believe we need that to grow.
Thank you...
MM, who has thank you for the third person talk ,and the ability to not be shy and scared anymore. _pounce_


None of that is offensive...in fact, I consider most of it a compliment.

And I have been modded (and rightly so, in many cases) by most of the mods a time or two. No harm, no foul.

But let's imagine that one (1) of the mods decided to single you out for special attention due to your feminist beliefs. Constant "warnings" given in publicly humiliating ways, for things that everyone else does. A banning or two (just one, in my case). Testing of the new modding system on you. Your posts explaining your position and beliefs sent to the Joke section (har har! Your beliefs are a joke!)

Now imagine that you also saw this being done to other members of your path (there have been at least 3 other Discordians who have been shat on like this, one of which has left, one hardly posts anymore, and one is on the verge of leaving).

Now, I don't plan on going voluntarily, but neither will I sit willingly under the outhouse seat. As my ma used to say, "If the rock hits you, holler!" And if hollering leads to being banned, well that's better than meekly putting up with this sort of crap for the privelege of being around for more of the same.

Just saying.

Philosophia
August 28th, 2006, 10:17 PM
None of that is offensive...in fact, I consider most of it a compliment.
And I have been modded (and rightly so, in many cases) by most of the mods a time or two. No harm, no foul.
But let's imagine that one (1) of the mods decided to single you out for special attention due to your feminist beliefs. Constant "warnings" given in publicly humiliating ways, for things that everyone else does. A banning or two (just one, in my case). Testing of the new modding system on you. Your posts explaining your position and beliefs sent to the Joke section (har har! Your beliefs are a joke!)
Now imagine that you also saw this being done to other members of your path (there have been at least 3 other Discordians who have been shat on like this, one of which has left, one hardly posts anymore, and one is on the verge of leaving).
Now, I don't plan on going voluntarily, but neither will I sit willingly under the outhouse seat. As my ma used to say, "If the rock hits you, holler!" And if hollering leads to being banned, well that's better than meekly putting up with this sort of crap for the privelege of being around for more of the same.
Just saying.

Actually, most of it is offensive. I don't like being told I'm illiterate, man hating, revisionist, jew hating, and a bully.
Feminist beliefs: Even though its not me, I do know that one person was put down because of her Dianic beliefs as was I. Unfortunately, she left because of the insults.
Just Silly: No, none of my beliefs have gone there. But it has been put down and insulted on many occasions. I guess I'm used to it because not many like Dianics.
Warnings: I've been given warnings and the only thing that pisses me off is when one person gets targeted because the admin agrees with the other side (when both have been doing the same).
As above, I've seen many people of my path being disrespected because their beliefs are not the norm. I've defended them and I will continue to do so. I also host a class here on MW that I hope destroys any perceptions that many pagans have about Dianics.
To the people who are thinking of leaving, don't leave. Don't give other people reasons to dislike you. Stand up and fight back, and if you do feel like you're being persecuted, message, pm, and stand up to it!

maphdet
August 28th, 2006, 10:19 PM
I have personally seen two instances in the past few days,
that have made me do a double take.

I even just tonight asked about one of them.


Interesting rant Little Billy
As usual.

:)


Look forward to more.

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Warnings: I've been given warnings and the only thing that pisses me off is when one person gets targeted because the admin agrees with the other side (when both have been doing the same).
As above, I've seen many people of my path being disrespected because their beliefs are not the norm. I've defended them and I will continue to do so. I also host a class here on MW that I hope destroys any perceptions that many pagans have about Dianics.
To the people who are thinking of leaving, don't leave. Don't give other people reasons to dislike you. Stand up and fight back, and if you do feel like you're being persecuted, message, pm, and stand up to it!


Bingo. Give that Lady a ceegar!

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 10:21 PM
I have personally seen two instances in the past few days,
that have made me do a double take.

I even just tonight asked about one of them.


Interesting rant Little Billy
As usual.

:)


Look forward to more.

Thanks.

Well, we'll see. I think I've made my point on this issue.

Doctor Jeep
August 28th, 2006, 10:23 PM
I agree with the most of the rant, but I don't think Discordians are picked out and put down. Maybe I haven't seen it or I have selective vision, but I've never seen any discrimination.

Not much now as far as I can see, but intially there was a good amount of resistance - at least in the political forum.

Jenne
August 28th, 2006, 10:36 PM
It's difficult for me...I know I bitch about being modded, esp when I'm only standing up for me and mine. I take it personally, especially when I usually only respond when responded to. However, I think the modding, in general, can be fair and somewhat balanced.

I have, however, noticed that the Discordians get the brunt of it in PP. They do. If there's a dispute between a Discordian and someone else, guess who gets it? Yup. Or, instead of conflict resolution...the thread just gets closed. Which solves nothing, for usually the detractors simply move their beef to another thread and duke it out there. Or the festering emotions that could've been resolved through debate come out again elsewhere.

Also, I have to admit that I fear this new "point" system. It feels like the long arm of "da law," where there's little democracy as possible...it makes me squeamish (3 strikes and you're out, anyone?). It's an oligarchy that feels a little too confined, from last year, or whenever it was, when the "one rule" was instigated, after all the myriads of rules that were tried out and failed.

I think diversification and multiplicity, if this point system is going to be used effectively, would make ME feel better. I am but one lowly poster, however. I keep my angst, for the most part, in PP. MW used to be my home away from home...and now I'm afraid of displeasing mods at the wil-you-nil-you and will be banned because I favor or champion one cause over another.

*shrug* I feel LB's pain, I guess is what I'm trying to say. I don't see myself as an instigator, but I do try to get people to come away from their casual, comfy prejudices and see other sides of issues. That makes some hate me, outright...I've seen it. Others just give grudging respect. Still others thank me profusely and encourage me to continue or go further. I honestly just don't see a "clear" path at this point...it feels like a murky depth no one can reach.

Or maybe that's just those of us who don't always "go with the flow"...perhaps this ISN'T the place for us. Time will tell, I guess.

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 10:38 PM
Also, I have to admit that I fear this new "point" system. It feels like the long arm of "da law," where there's little democracy as possible...it makes me squeamish (3 strikes and you're out, anyone?). It's an oligarchy that feels a little too confined, from last year, or whenever it was, when the "one rule" was instigated, after all the myriads of rules that were tried out and failed.


AMEN! CAN YA SAY "THANK YA, BABY JESUS!"

Doctor Jeep
August 28th, 2006, 10:45 PM
Also, I have to admit that I fear this new "point" system. It feels like the long arm of "da law," where there's little democracy as possible...it makes me squeamish (3 strikes and you're out, anyone?).

Point system?

DJ,
Should probably check out the Site/Announcment forums more often.

Jenne
August 28th, 2006, 10:51 PM
AMEN! CAN YA SAY "THANK YA, BABY JESUS!"


THANK YA, BABY JESUS!

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 11:15 PM
THANK YA, BABY JESUS!


THAT'S RIGHT THAT'S RIGHT WE HAVE A WITNESS CAN YA SAY HALLELUJAH!

LB,
Little known fact: I used to preach stuff like that every Sunday (and most times even kept a straight face).

Little Billy
August 28th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Point system?

DJ,
Should probably check out the Site/Announcment forums more often.


I already have a point.

Apparently, if I get another one, they send the boys around.

Theres
August 28th, 2006, 11:56 PM
naughty children will be naughty children (whatever 'path title' they choose), and Little Tin Gods will always have a place at online forums.

so show me a better option.

Philosophia
August 29th, 2006, 12:20 AM
naughty children will be naughty children (whatever 'path title' they choose), and Little Tin Gods will always have a place at online forums.
so show me a better option.

I agree but that isn't what LB is saying. Should these "naughty children" be discriminated against because they've got a different perspective than everybody else?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 12:42 AM
I agree but that isn't what LB is saying. Should these "naughty children" be discriminated against because they've got a different perspective than everybody else?

ummmm yes?

Philosophia
August 29th, 2006, 12:46 AM
ummmm yes?

Why?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 12:47 AM
Why?

Why not?

Philosophia
August 29th, 2006, 12:49 AM
Why not?

How?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 12:53 AM
How?

ok, that just doesn't make sense you silly sausage :eek: I did a naughty!

Philosophia
August 29th, 2006, 12:55 AM
ok, that just doesn't make sense you silly sausage :eek: I did a naughty!

:lol: huh? :nyah:

Theres
August 29th, 2006, 12:57 AM
I agree but that isn't what LB is saying. Should these "naughty children" be discriminated against because they've got a different perspective than everybody else?
i don't know...
is Johnnie being "discriminated against" because he is told not to throw mud on Sally (even though that might be his "perspective")?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 12:59 AM
i don't know...
is Johnnie being "discriminated against" because he is told not to throw mud on Sally (even though that might be his "perspective")?

Theres has a point there... the discordian crew do cause trouble :lol:

Jenne
August 29th, 2006, 01:00 AM
Theres has a point there... the discordian crew do cause trouble :lol:

No more than thou, o Peacock one! :D

Philosophia
August 29th, 2006, 01:01 AM
i don't know...
is Johnnie being "discriminated against" because he is told not to throw mud on Sally (even though that might be his "perspective")?

If it was mud being thrown, and if he did throw it, are the questions that should be asked.
Its all up to a person's perspective and their path. With discordians, they are sometimes looked at as "jokes" and "childish". When one has a perceived notion of what a person actually is, its hard to break away from that and form a new opinion.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 01:01 AM
No more than thou, o Peacock one! :D

true true... but I ain't a discordian am I? :lol:

<starts work on a concentration camp for discordians>

Little Billy
August 29th, 2006, 01:27 AM
i don't know...
is Johnnie being "discriminated against" because he is told not to throw mud on Sally (even though that might be his "perspective")?


Who did we throw mud on?

TIA.

Little Billy
August 29th, 2006, 01:28 AM
Theres has a point there... the discordian crew do cause trouble :lol:

I blame society. :viking:

Little Billy
August 29th, 2006, 01:29 AM
true true... but I ain't a discordian am I? :lol:




Then explain your arsenal of drop bears.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 01:37 AM
Then explain your arsenal of drop bears.

I would... but then I would have to kill you... sorry...

Jenne
August 29th, 2006, 01:41 AM
I would... but then I would have to kill you... sorry...

Bad lil Iggy!

*tsk tsk*

Little Billy
August 29th, 2006, 01:48 AM
I would... but then I would have to kill you... sorry...

Please to read my sig.

Thanks.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 01:48 AM
Bad lil Iggy!

*tsk tsk*

lil!!! :shaker: who you callin' lil!

drop bears, fly my pretties fly!

http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/yourworld/images/wwofwest.jpg

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 02:08 AM
true true... but I ain't a discordian am I? :lol:

<starts work on a concentration camp for discordians>

Yeah, yeah you are. You may not have figured it out yet, but you are. :cheers:

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 02:13 AM
Write an email to mol instead of stirring up shit on the boards...its the logical thing to do.

Thanks for assuming that we don't know how to communicate with people.

Thanks for accusing us of 'stirring up shit' when we are attacked.

All by yourself you have just proved most of LB's rant. Thank you for that so we don't have to go looking around the forum, those of us unsure about what exactly he is talking about.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:15 AM
Yeah, yeah you are. You may not have figured it out yet, but you are. :cheers:

nah... I'm too different

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 02:23 AM
Little Billy, I really am sorry that Iv made light of your feelings, but you did come here on the wrong foot so to speak, right from the begining no? I was around your other little forum there, before you got here.:idea:

So please spare us the drama and take your complaints to Mol. And Im not a cheerleader, I dont even really know any of the admins here.

Please explain what you mean by 'come here on the wrong foot', because I really don't think you have a clue why any of us "Discordians" showed up here. Which other "little forum" were you on? There are several and none o fthem are exactly little. You do realise how condescending you sound, don't you?

We have all taken complaints to Mol, I am still a bit confused on why it is you think we didn't. That is how we got this subforum in paths. I am not going to say any more, because the last time I talked openly about this I got in trouble. I think I am the only Discordian not to get any points from the new system and I kinda want to keep it that way.

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 02:26 AM
nah... I'm too different

That is probably the silliest thing you have ever posted. And considering who you are, that is saying something :yayah:

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:28 AM
That is probably the silliest thing you have ever posted. And considering who you are, that is saying something :yayah:

Ouch... that's a little harsh!

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 02:32 AM
It does seem harsh but you know that "I'm not like everybody else" and "I'm different." are the mottos of automatons. (I swear they are and I could give you proof if you knew the secret handshake. Or at least the right codewords.)

Anyway, I myself haven't experienced any anti-Erisian persecution here at MW, but I have seen it in earlier posts and threads. Also, in the Pagan community offline (or IRL, as some call it), there is much discrimination against Discordians and Erisians, as well as the usual bashing of Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims.

Aneristic persecution shouldn't be supported, otherwise Discordians start getting trickier and more shifty.

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 02:35 AM
Ouch... that's a little harsh!

OK, seriously, who is sillier, you or me?

I think we have pot calling kettle black, Chaos Magician, Discordian, there really is a fine line between the two, don't you think?

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 02:37 AM
OK, seriously, who is sillier, you or me?

I think we have pot calling kettle black, Chaos Magician, Discordian, there really is a fine line between the two, don't you think?

The only line between the two is about how much money one is willing to spend on occult books and toys.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:40 AM
OK, seriously, who is sillier, you or me?

I think we have pot calling kettle black, Chaos Magician, Discordian, there really is a fine line between the two, don't you think?

I ain't either :lol: though it's really a matter of semantics really.

it's all basically the same shit different toilet seat in the end.

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 02:43 AM
The shit is actually different too.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:43 AM
The only line between the two is about how much money one is willing to spend on occult books and toys.

hmmmm my grand totally spent on occult books and toys is... $0... my grand total spent on my religion... $0 my grand total spent on anything religious... errr (calculates) probably about $50 over 15 years...

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 02:45 AM
hmmmm my grand totally spent on occult books and toys is... $0... my grand total spent on my religion... $0 my grand total spent on anything religious... errr (calculates) probably about $50 over 15 years...

Sounds like you know more about this Chaos Magic thing then you're letting on. I take it you know about the ladles?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:45 AM
The shit is actually different too.

ummm I yeah... that's why I said I was different. I wasn't trying to make myself out to be uber-special... I'm just different from discordians (and chaos magicians largely)

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Sounds like you know more about this Chaos Magic thing then you're letting on. I take it you know about the ladles?


yes I have a couple serving spoons in my kitchen :lol:

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 02:49 AM
yes I have a couple serving spoons in my kitchen :lol:

And you know about the special enlightening powers of tin foil?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:52 AM
And you know about the special enlightening powers of tin foil?

We don't have tin foil here... Australia has evolved upwards towards using aluminum foil

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 02:55 AM
You do get where Little Billy is coming from though, right?

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 02:55 AM
I just took a peek and it looks like this to me, I might have it totally wrong

6 Discordian infractions
5 for other members
4 for spammers

That seems just plain bizarre.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:56 AM
You do get where Little Billy is coming from though, right?

naturally

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 02:57 AM
I just took a peek and it looks like this to me, I might have it totally wrong

6 Discordian infractions
5 for other members
4 for spammers

That seems just plain bizarre.


Could be the Hate and the Fear teaming up against us again. Do we have to dust off our swords again?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 02:57 AM
I just took a peek and it looks like this to me, I might have it totally wrong

6 Discordian infractions
5 for other members
4 for spammers

That seems just plain bizarre.



I think I should exempt from the infraction system, I'm too damn sexy to be banned!

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 02:59 AM
The only line between the two is about how much money one is willing to spend on occult books and toys.

Depends on which toys count as occult_inabox_

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 03:00 AM
Depends on which toys count as occult_inabox_


I doubt the Jesus dildo counts...

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 03:02 AM
I think I should exempt from the infraction system, I'm too damn sexy to be banned!

I agree _wedgie_

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 03:03 AM
I doubt the Jesus dildo counts...

Depends on the rite.

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 03:04 AM
I agree _wedgie_

I think I should be exempt too, since I would simply get too drunk to care anyway.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 03:05 AM
Depends on the rite.

twould be an "interesting" way of achieve gnosis... hmmmm

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 03:14 AM
This sounds fmailiar, was it in the Illuminatus Trilogy?

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 03:20 AM
This sounds fmailiar, was it in the Illuminatus Trilogy?

No idea.

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 03:24 AM
Nah. The Illuminatus Trilogy had the scene with the golden apple. I don't recall any other inanimate objects.

eldora_avalon
August 29th, 2006, 03:34 AM
Nah. The Illuminatus Trilogy had the scene with the golden apple. I don't recall any other inanimate objects.

There were those special wafers :wave:

Lets Go Bowling
August 29th, 2006, 03:41 AM
There were those special wafers :wave:


Shhh! You'll scare the primates.

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 03:53 AM
Shhh! You'll scare the primates.

:imout:

coaxialkettle
August 29th, 2006, 04:30 AM
my 0.5 worth of memory says 'twas in the R.A.W./Shea cat tricycle on the 'return of Ulysses'
[1/2dead foreyourseine's,par is]

Meabh23
August 29th, 2006, 05:28 AM
Sounds like you have a lot of memory.:spaceman:

coaxialkettle
August 29th, 2006, 06:26 AM
early age librarian rsq 'bavarian' fire drill memories sink in
shar pen ed

Infinite Grey
August 29th, 2006, 06:40 AM
you every get into one those moods where you just want to persecute someone? ARGH! I think I'll go kick some puppies instead.

Little Billy
August 29th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Could be the Hate and the Fear teaming up against us again. Do we have to dust off our swords again?

I smell...JIHAAD! :lol:

coaxialkettle
August 30th, 2006, 02:27 AM
X-mass in Dune...

coaxialkettle
August 30th, 2006, 02:30 AM
enjoy

Lets Go Bowling
August 31st, 2006, 01:22 AM
I smell...JIHAAD! :lol:


Oh no! Hide the booze!

Cain
September 17th, 2006, 05:35 AM
Bump for current context

Vincent Verthaine
September 18th, 2006, 05:36 AM
I'm just surprised the current regime hasn't gotten around to totally dismantling this sub-forum.

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 06:20 AM
some Etchings can not be white Wash
Hog ed no matter how
many in Tons
spray Can graffiti is one thing
dismantling a brick wall is
another
reminds me of doing time...

Bethra
September 18th, 2006, 07:57 AM
:( There aren't the words to express how discusted I have been in latter days.

There was a time I prided myself on being one who spoke her mind and was aprechiated for it. However it would seam that speeking ones mind is only acceptable if one speeks what is wanted to be heard by the powers that be. All joking aside I am saddened and disapointed with the handling of recent events and do feel like a place I once called home has turned into a consentration camp. It can be dressed up and put down in anyway shape or form its still persicution.

I am not a Discordian, as I have always said, I am just a little Chaos Monkey who believes in her own free will and freedom of choice and freedom of speech. If this was only a matter effecting a group of Discordians I would not be effected by it. I would simply carry on in my own little way, but I have been effected by it, I have been made to feel like my basic human rights have been violated. I will not tolerate being bound and gagged to silence simply because I will be labeled a Drama Queen for speeking out. I will not stand idoly by and watch as one by one my rights are removed from me. I will not be labeled as a Troll simply because I want the right to express my OPPINION and if that oppinion differs from that of the powers that be I will still stand by my right to express it.

I do not live in a dictatorship, I can not live where I have no free will. I will not stand idoly by and watch as the hammer of dictatorship smashes down on our personal freedoms. I was once caged but now I am free. I have tasted the bitter pill of control and know better than to let myself be medicated again.

SILENCE ME NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Infinite Grey
September 18th, 2006, 01:05 PM
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1503/vamtroofur5.jpg

_Banbha_
September 18th, 2006, 01:21 PM
:( There aren't the words to express how discusted I have been in latter days.

There was a time I prided myself on being one who spoke her mind and was aprechiated for it. However it would seam that speeking ones mind is only acceptable if one speeks what is wanted to be heard by the powers that be. All joking aside I am saddened and disapointed with the handling of recent events and do feel like a place I once called home has turned into a consentration camp. It can be dressed up and put down in anyway shape or form its still persicution.

I am not a Discordian, as I have always said, I am just a little Chaos Monkey who believes in her own free will and freedom of choice and freedom of speech. If this was only a matter effecting a group of Discordians I would not be effected by it. I would simply carry on in my own little way, but I have been effected by it, I have been made to feel like my basic human rights have been violated. I will not tolerate being bound and gagged to silence simply because I will be labeled a Drama Queen for speeking out. I will not stand idoly by and watch as one by one my rights are removed from me. I will not be labeled as a Troll simply because I want the right to express my OPPINION and if that oppinion differs from that of the powers that be I will still stand by my right to express it.

I do not live in a dictatorship, I can not live where I have no free will. I will not stand idoly by and watch as the hammer of dictatorship smashes down on our personal freedoms. I was once caged but now I am free. I have tasted the bitter pill of control and know better than to let myself be medicated again.

SILENCE ME NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/EtainOcean/hmitten.jpg

Well said Bethra. :cheers:

I couldn't agree more.

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 01:32 PM
Hmmm, did every discordian on this site get banned?
Did the discordian sub-forum get closed down?
Do the admins really hate all the discordians?

nope
nope
and nope

Infinite Grey
September 18th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Hmmm, did every discordian on this site get banned?
Did the discordian sub-forum get closed down?
Do the admins really hate all the discordians?


A great deal of them did
not as of yet
I'm sure they dislike a number of discordians.

_Banbha_
September 18th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Hmmm, did every discordian on this site get banned?
Did the discordian sub-forum get closed down?
Do the admins really hate all the discordians?

nope
nope
and nope
1. No, not every Discordian is posting at this time. Those who are are not happy and very well aware of what's been going on. Do you really think you're proving anything with some generalizations while ignoring all else?

2. Nope, but there's a lot LESS Discordians and folks who like Discordians actually posting here. Since the forum's still here, then everything just must be fine then?

3. Not all Admins. Have you even been reading the Admin posts throughout this mess?

I don't mean to sound abrupt.... but you are seemingly being obtuse; even if you agree with all the bannings and curbing of speech. Do you agree with the way things are now?

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 01:53 PM
I'm just surprised the current regime hasn't gotten around to totally dismantling this sub-forum.
I was thinking the same thing the other day.



Originally Posted by Bethra http://mysticwicks.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=2807792#post2807792)
:( There aren't the words to express how discusted I have been in latter days.

There was a time I prided myself on being one who spoke her mind and was aprechiated for it. However it would seam that speeking ones mind is only acceptable if one speeks what is wanted to be heard by the powers that be. All joking aside I am saddened and disapointed with the handling of recent events and do feel like a place I once called home has turned into a consentration camp. It can be dressed up and put down in anyway shape or form its still persicution.

I am not a Discordian, as I have always said, I am just a little Chaos Monkey who believes in her own free will and freedom of choice and freedom of speech. If this was only a matter effecting a group of Discordians I would not be effected by it. I would simply carry on in my own little way, but I have been effected by it, I have been made to feel like my basic human rights have been violated. I will not tolerate being bound and gagged to silence simply because I will be labeled a Drama Queen for speeking out. I will not stand idoly by and watch as one by one my rights are removed from me. I will not be labeled as a Troll simply because I want the right to express my OPPINION and if that oppinion differs from that of the powers that be I will still stand by my right to express it.

I do not live in a dictatorship, I can not live where I have no free will. I will not stand idoly by and watch as the hammer of dictatorship smashes down on our personal freedoms. I was once caged but now I am free. I have tasted the bitter pill of control and know better than to let myself be medicated again.

SILENCE ME NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Truer Words have never been spoken Bethra :fpraise::D

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 02:33 PM
1. No, not every Discordian is posting at this time. Those who are are not happy and very well aware of what's been going on. Do you really think you're proving anything with some generalizations while ignoring all else?

2. Nope, but there's a lot LESS Discordians and folks who like Discordians actually posting here. Since the forum's still here, then everything just must be fine then?

3. Not all Admins. Have you even been reading the Admin posts throughout this mess?

I don't mean to sound abrupt.... but you are seemingly being obtuse; even if you agree with all the bannings and curbing of speech. Do you agree with the way things are now?

Were there quite a few Discordians posting last month? Did all of them get moderated or banned?

I like Discordians, until they get on this 'victim' thing. I'm not saying everything is just fine, but I'm not putting all the blame on the admins (or one particular admin), there's plenty of responsibility to go around. I've read a lot of the posts, not just the ones posted by the Admins. Perhaps because I'm not an Admin or a Discordian I have a somewhat less jaundiced perspective?

And I'm really offended when I'm told that I'm "not looking deeply enough" or "being obtuse" when the TROOF is that I simply don't agree with the victimology. I don't agree that the admins caused the whole ruckus. I do believe that they are trying to work out a solution. It's a complicated situation and it's probably taking longer than any of you like, I can understand that.

If the drama stayed here in this sub-forum I'd be happy to discuss it with you all, but when it bleeds over into the other forums and people who have no stake in any of this find their threads in danger of being closed because of the in-fighting, then I say it sucks eggs.

Bethra
September 18th, 2006, 02:34 PM
Hmmm, did every discordian on this site get banned?
Did the discordian sub-forum get closed down?
Do the admins really hate all the discordians?

nope
nope
and nope

If you were responding to my post please don't bother it was ment as a statment of my feelings on what has happened here and in other places NON discordian related and often not even internet related. I simply chose a thread with relation to how I'm feeling about the subject.

Remember that by posting to a post that invited no comment YOU are the one maintaining the drama. It would be advisable for everyone right now to leave me the **** alown because someone pulled this vipers tail and now she's pissed off

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 02:45 PM
If you were responding to my post please don't bother it was ment as a statment of my feelings on what has happened here and in other places NON discordian related and often not even internet related. I simply chose a thread with relation to how I'm feeling about the subject.

Remember that by posting to a post that invited no comment YOU are the one maintaining the drama. It would be advisable for everyone right now to leave me the hug alown because someone pulled this vipers tail and now she's pissed off

No, I was not responding to your post in particular, but to the whole hugging situation. I'm simply sharing how I feel about the subject. Didn't realize anyone had a monopoly on that.

Bethra
September 18th, 2006, 02:46 PM
I like Discordians, until they get on this 'victim' thing. I'm not saying everything is just fine, but I'm not putting all the blame on the admins (or one particular admin), there's plenty of responsibility to go around. I've read a lot of the posts, not just the ones posted by the Admins. Perhaps because I'm not an Admin or a Discordian I have a somewhat less jaundiced perspective?


How much louder do I have to shout here before you will listern.

You responded to a post I made in which I said quite catagoricaly I AM NOT A DISCORDIAN shall I say that again for clarity sake? I AM NOT A DISCORDIAN. You will find I only very minimaly post in this forum. You don't find me hanging out that often with a bunch of other discordians and there is no way I will stand here and be told I am playing the VICTIM. I am no victim and never ever want someones sympathy. You will also note I made no refrance to Admins or Mods in my post, for all you know I might have been talking about anything and everything. But you chose to be little my justified comment with no real awareness of what I was talking about. It never pays to prosume.

As I said to you in the previous post "Remember that by posting to a post that invited no comment YOU are the one maintaining the drama."

Bethra
September 18th, 2006, 02:51 PM
No, I was not responding to your post in particular, but to the whole hugging situation. I'm simply sharing how I feel about the subject. Didn't realize anyone had a monopoly on that.

Well then why didn't you post that sentiment before then.

Walk away from the situation if you don't like the drama any further posts you make will be regarded as inflamitory and baiting

Vincent Verthaine
September 18th, 2006, 03:05 PM
If the Admins had just PMed any one of three highly respected Discordian Elders here to help play mediator,none of this would have happened.

We could of helped squashed this from the get go.
All they had to do was ask.But they didn't,so here we are.

We can only sit back and watch blatant abuses of power,ass-kissing and favoritism for so long.

8 month's of it is a little to long in my book.

We discordians are supposed to stick apart,unless you attack us.
We discordians fight for freedom,so you don't have to.
Even our symphatizers,who may not be discordians themselves,seem to feel the way we do.

We discordians don't like stroking the egos of people in power.
Which tends to make them and their supporters upset.

Those who feel they are denied a voice here,have already discovered a place where they can find it.
I think my final post at Political pagan summed things up quite nicely.

All this that went on didn't hurt discordianism one bit.
It made us stronger,closer,and more of us.

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 03:05 PM
Well then why didn't you post that sentiment before then.

... because I didn't realize you were going to take my post personally.

I didn't mean to impinge, honestly. I'm just sharing my opinion, and I'm not going after anyone in particular or trying to provoke an argument. If Discordians and their friends are going to tell me to look deeper I have the right to ask the same of them.


Walk away from the situation if you don't like the drama any further posts you make will be regarded as inflamitory and baiting

This has absolutely noting to do with YOU as far as I know, if you've been part of the whole hugging situation then you didn't really stand out in my viewpoint enough to make an impression on me.

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 03:08 PM
If the Admins had just PMed any one of three highly respected Discordian Elders here to help play mediator,none of this would have happened.

We could of helped squashed this from the get go.
All they had to do was ask.But they didn't,so here we are.

We can only sit back and watch blatant abuses of power,ass-kissing and favoritism for so long.

8 month's of it is a little to long in my book.

We discordians are supposed to stick apart,unless you attack us.
We discordians fight for freedom,so you don't have to.

We discordians don't like stroking the egos of people in power.
Which tends to make them and their supporters upset.

Those who feel they are denied a voice here,have already discovered a place where they can find it.
I think my final post at Political pagan summed things up quite nicely.

All this that went on didn't hurt discordianism one bit.
It made us stronger,closer,and more of us.

As they say, hindsight is 20/20. When you're in the middle of something you've never dealt with before - it may not be so clear what you should, or shouldn't, do.

It's an ill wind that blows no good.

Luna ~ wonders what other old standbys she could have used... ;)

Xentor
September 18th, 2006, 03:14 PM
We discordians are supposed to stick apart,unless you attack us.
We discordians fight for freedom,so you don't have to.
Even our symphatizers,who may not be discordians themselves,seem to feel the way we do.

We discordians don't like stroking the egos of people in power.
Which tends to make them and their supporters upset.

Those who feel they are denied a voice here,have already discovered a place where they can find it.
I think my final post at Political People summed things up quite nicely.

All this that went on didn't hurt discordianism one bit.
It made us stronger,closer,and more of us.

And here I was, thinking that Discordians liked chaos. Chaos abound, most certainly.

I won't be commenting on this anymore, so please read.

We didn't set out to hurt Discordianism. We set out to rid our community of trolls. We hope our community will be a better place as a result.

I suggest you do the same with your own forum. Because a lot of those who joined up there recently, don't deserve to call themselves Discordians. They don't share your cause, therefore in the end they will cause your forum harm.

Take care.

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 03:22 PM
well there's a house on fire and it's full of bullets and it's ready to explode
by the way it's full of children locked up in their rooms
we didn't show them the way to get out and they're about to meet their dooms
everybody come grab a bucket,quickly we must go
*cause it's been smouldering a long time
i don't know when it will blow...

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 03:27 PM
I suggest you do the same with your own forum. Because a lot of those who joined up there recently, don't deserve to call themselves Discordians Ah some of us who have joined there recently never claimed to be Discordian to begin with. And once again who made you judge to say who is and who is not?


well there's a house on fire and it's full of bullets and it's ready to explode
by the way it's full of children locked up in their rooms
we didn't show them the way to get out and they're about to meet their dooms
everybody come grab a bucket,quickly we must go
*cause it's been smouldering a long time
i don't know when it will blow... CK you have such a way of putting things.

goblinhill
September 18th, 2006, 03:30 PM
And here I was, thinking that Discordians liked chaos. Chaos abound, most certainly.

I won't be commenting on this anymore, so please read.

We didn't set out to hurt Discordianism. We set out to rid our community of trolls. We hope our community will be a better place as a result.

I suggest you do the same with your own forum. Because a lot of those who joined up there recently, don't deserve to call themselves Discordians. They don't share your cause, therefore in the end they will cause your forum harm.

Take care.

“I don’t know what a feminist is, I only know they call me a feminist anytime I say anything that distinguishes me from a doormat….” Rebecca West, age 20,

“I don’t know what a discordian is, I only know they call them trolls anytime they say anything that distinguishes them from a doormat….” Me, Today

goblinhill
Just Saying

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 03:31 PM
Bethra, :hugz:

Lun...I think you're just not going to be able to get this one. Your stake lies in other pastures. Nuff said.

Vincent, :hugz: You are so right. Collusion would have gone far in this instance. Instead, whatever was tried backfired and blew up in mol's and hence the community's faces. Sad, but true. For want of a nail...

Xen, I hope you can get some perspective at some point about this all. It's hard when you're at the mod controls to see it as globally, I think. Perhaps you argue there's no need. I say what's transpired over the last 4 weeks says otherwise.

And Xen, what you said about the new members couldn't be more wrong. They FLED...fled persecution, fled damning, fled patronizing and belittling. They're angry, they're apt to mob mentality, and they're thirsting for vengeance. How could that have been stopped?

This was a more or less pretty peaceful place. With interesting folks from all walks of life. Now, it's a cowering populace, with a few ready to strike if struck, or hanging back out of fear and prejudice.

What great losses have been suffered will be felt for the whole of MW history. For you have not just lost those who've been here since MW's inception (a great loss to this place, whether it is realized or not), but also those who came, saw the ensuing barbaric attempts at fascist control (something that wasn't anything but desperate--it truly wasn't necessary at all) and immediately left.

And where did they come to?

You see, winning the hearts and minds and souls of your loved ones doesn't take the swift hand to the jugular. It takes an understanding mindset and a willingness to hold fast a line whilst holding out a hand. It takes skill and discerning judgment. Not two assets everyone holds.

The catalyst for this may have been a particular group of individuals who have little at stake with those they perceive as powerhungry mongrels. But the actual event, in its entireity, was bound to happen regardless. There was no plan in place for this mass of humanity here and how to keep it. To expect that TWO lone admins could handle it is ridiculous and criminally negligent. When you ask people to pay to play, then you need to make it worth their while to do so.

Asking them to put up with what's been here for the past few weeks is just wrong, plain wrong. I'd rather see a shut down of the site while it was reconstructed, mods found, and rules reset than the desperate attempts to keep control that we saw and continue to see here everyday.

It concerns me that we are told we are a community, but cannot speak to each other openly. It concerns me that pm functions being down, public communications are restricted even further to the poing of banning without warning. It concerns me that detractors are traitors to the communal cause, not people who have a different and equally valid point of view.

Mr. Gorbachev, tear this wall down.

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Mr. Gorbachev, tear this wall down. Nice post Jenne and agree.


“I don’t know what a feminist is, I only know they call me a feminist anytime I say anything that distinguishes me from a doormat….” Rebecca West, age 20,

“I don’t know what a discordian is, I only know they call them trolls anytime they say anything that distinguishes them from a doormat….” Me, Today

goblinhill
Just SayingInteresting way of putting it Goblinhill.

nomadicdragon
September 18th, 2006, 03:38 PM
To expect that TWO lone admins could handle it is ridiculous and criminally negligent. When you ask people to pay to play, then you need to make it worth their while to do so.
.

I just wanted to respond to this part, don't have any comments about this rest of it.

It isn't criminally negligent, there hasn't been a crime committed. it isn't right to have an insufficient amount of admins, but saying it is crimnially negligent is going a bit overboard.

And second, MW is not a pay to play website. MWad(unless I missing something new). People are always welcome to contribute to MW, but you don't have to pay to be a member of MW.

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 03:46 PM
I just wanted to respond to this part, don't have any comments about this rest of it.

It isn't criminally negligent, there hasn't been a crime committed. it isn't right to have an insufficient amount of admins, but saying it is crimnially negligent is going a bit overboard.

And second, MW is not a pay to play website. MWad(unless I missing something new). People are always welcome to contribute to MW, but you don't have to pay to be a member of MW.

Poetic license, dear nd...if I pay my money to be here...I guess I just expect a status quo and not everything to go to shit because there's insufficient admins to handle the board.

And yes, people are welcomed and encouraged to contribute. There are ads on the website advertising for vendors. The site is here to make money, which is understandable because it needs that to be sustained.

Regardless...what happened was a direct result of being asleep at the wheel and not giving enough time/effort to fix it until too late.

I stand by my words. And ever shall.

nomadicdragon
September 18th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Poetic license, dear nd...if I pay my money to be here...I guess I just expect a status quo and not everything to go to shit because there's insufficient admins to handle the board.

And yes, people are welcomed and encouraged to contribute. There are ads on the website advertising for vendors. The site is here to make money, which is understandable because it needs that to be sustained.

Regardless...what happened was a direct result of being asleep at the wheel and not giving enough time/effort to fix it until too late.

I stand by my words. And ever shall.


You have ever right to stand by your words, and I agree that if you pay, you have right to expect a certain number of things to occur.

Granted, things happen, servers break etc. That's just the course of dealing with computers.

My point was more that you don't "have" to pay to be on MW. You can choose not to contribute.

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 04:02 PM
You're right, you don't. I was speaking as a paying member. :D

Shanti
September 18th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Bethra, :hugz:

Lun...I think you're just not going to be able to get this one. Your stake lies in other pastures. Nuff said.

Vincent, :hugz: You are so right. Collusion would have gone far in this instance. Instead, whatever was tried backfired and blew up in mol's and hence the community's faces. Sad, but true. For want of a nail...

Xen, I hope you can get some perspective at some point about this all. It's hard when you're at the mod controls to see it as globally, I think. Perhaps you argue there's no need. I say what's transpired over the last 4 weeks says otherwise.

And Xen, what you said about the new members couldn't be more wrong. They FLED...fled persecution, fled damning, fled patronizing and belittling. They're angry, they're apt to mob mentality, and they're thirsting for vengeance. How could that have been stopped?

This was a more or less pretty peaceful place. With interesting folks from all walks of life. Now, it's a cowering populace, with a few ready to strike if struck, or hanging back out of fear and prejudice.

What great losses have been suffered will be felt for the whole of MW history. For you have not just lost those who've been here since MW's inception (a great loss to this place, whether it is realized or not), but also those who came, saw the ensuing barbaric attempts at fascist control (something that wasn't anything but desperate--it truly wasn't necessary at all) and immediately left.

And where did they come to?

You see, winning the hearts and minds and souls of your loved ones doesn't take the swift hand to the jugular. It takes an understanding mindset and a willingness to hold fast a line whilst holding out a hand. It takes skill and discerning judgment. Not two assets everyone holds.

The catalyst for this may have been a particular group of individuals who have little at stake with those they perceive as powerhungry mongrels. But the actual event, in its entireity, was bound to happen regardless. There was no plan in place for this mass of humanity here and how to keep it. To expect that TWO lone admins could handle it is ridiculous and criminally negligent. When you ask people to pay to play, then you need to make it worth their while to do so.

Asking them to put up with what's been here for the past few weeks is just wrong, plain wrong. I'd rather see a shut down of the site while it was reconstructed, mods found, and rules reset than the desperate attempts to keep control that we saw and continue to see here everyday.

It concerns me that we are told we are a community, but cannot speak to each other openly. It concerns me that pm functions being down, public communications are restricted even further to the poing of banning without warning. It concerns me that detractors are traitors to the communal cause, not people who have a different and equally valid point of view.

Mr. Gorbachev, tear this wall down.

I applaud you.

I am not a discordian. I was, (been wondering how much I have changed as of late) a pacifist I always looking out for the underdogs. That was where I took a stand. I also stood up for myself. Myself and the underdog. I had respect for MW and felt respected in return. Not anymore.

Now, I have stood up for myself, the underdog and the discordians and all those who also stand for the terrible transitions that have taken place here. Bannings without warning, heck there have been bannings without any reason when some were not even around!!! Threads closed and swept away before anyone can speak their case. Threads have been deleted for crying out loud. That's something that's is never done.
Even I wonder if one day when I come to log on if I will receive the message....go away.

Community, not anymore. Its divided, split and only those who agree are safe from the unfairness.
Mw stood for tolerance/ acceptance, not anymore...I saw the cruel treatment of another faith (not discordian).
Mw stood for equality, not anymore. I have seen people targeted because they are not fitting into a nice package.

I am not a child. I am not ignorant. I have watched and watched. I have been here for a few years. I have seen the change and its ugly as hell.

Maybe someday people will awaken.
If not, maybe honesty may prevail and the truth will be laid out...nope that's ridiculous.

I put a lot of myself here. An awful lot. Its hard to let go.

SwordsFlameSong
September 18th, 2006, 04:17 PM
**Admin Mode**

Please feel free to take your questions and concerns regarding the recent issues to Mol, myself, Xentor, Kaylara or Flaire in pm. Not here on the boards.


********************************************************************

NOT ADMIN MODE BUT SFS COMMUNITY MEMBER
There were no winners.
Everyone lost.
Everyone is accountable for their own actions and perceptions.
Mob mentality destroys it doesn't build.

It's time to stop.

Vincent Verthaine
September 18th, 2006, 04:21 PM
And here I was, thinking that Discordians liked chaos. Chaos abound, most certainly.

I won't be commenting on this anymore, so please read.

We didn't set out to hurt Discordianism. We set out to rid our community of trolls. We hope our community will be a better place as a result.

I suggest you do the same with your own forum. Because a lot of those who joined up there recently, don't deserve to call themselves Discordians. They don't share your cause, therefore in the end they will cause your forum harm.

Take care.
1-Discordianism wasn't hurt,so no harm,no foul.As a matter of fact,it hasn't been this healthy in years.

2-Discordians are supposed to respect CHAOS.Drama on the otherhand,is not to be respected.

3-I aprreciate your suggestion,but it's not my forum to make that call,not my right to declare who is,or isn't deserving to call themselves discordians.ERIS Herself will make that call,in her own time,in her own way.Like she always does.Even GREYFACE Himself,only serves the Will of Eris.Whatever is done,will only strengthen us ,and make us stronger.

4-No offense,but I think you do not truly grasp discordianism.
We have been around for 50 years.
We've been standing up to various pagan hierarchies for 50 years.
We've had forums since the beginning of the internet.
We know how to handle ourselves,against ourselves,better then anyone else.

All that went down here was foreseen by some of us quite awhile ago(what,you actually think we discordians don't have our own forms of divination,our own oracles?),thats why some of us just stood by and watched.Such is the Will of Eris.

5-The Law of Eristic Escalation:
Imposition of Order=Escalation of Chaos.
That is a Multiversal LAW.

Lunadria
September 18th, 2006, 04:22 PM
You know it's funny, I noticed all of this before the discordians felt attacked. This started on MWad and while I won't discuss that forum due to the adult nature, I will say that I left for the same reasons a lot of you are complaining about here. And No, I am not a Discordian.

There is a divide. This is no longer a community. This is simply a place to hang out when you're bored and it's sad and a real shame. I have made many good friends and some of the strongest friendships through MW and MWad, but I no longer feel at home. I am aware that once two of us left MWad for not being allowed our opinions, (several times) we were labelled as drama mongers. Frankly, I don't care what people think of me, but to name call and throw insults my way just for a point of view and after I am no longer there to defend myself is not only cowardly, but shows a lack of respect and that by a mod sticks!

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 04:26 PM
Mirali, I haven't talked with you a lot, but I read what happened to you, and I'm sorry.

:hugz:

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 04:28 PM
i don't know much.i came in here some six weeks ago and i learned a lot
more than i can grasp right now
these are valuable pointers as to how minds work
whatever stances were taken
i pray for life
for peace
in unity
for a sanctuary
where love is free to grow
unimpeded

Lunadria
September 18th, 2006, 04:29 PM
Thanks, Jenne but don't worry about it. I don't. Made my own little forum where I am able to express myself without putting anyone elses nose out of joint. :)

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 04:33 PM
Thanks, Jenne but don't worry about it. I don't. Made my own little forum where I am able to express myself without putting anyone elses nose out of joint. :)

Sad to say, that seems to be a la mode recently...

I'm glad you're bouncing back, M. :D

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 04:34 PM
i don't know much.i came in here some six weeks ago and i learned a lot
more than i can grasp right now
these are valuable pointers as to how minds work
whatever stances were taken
i pray for life
for peace
in unity
for a sanctuary
where love is free to grow
unimpeded

same here, ck...same here. Sigh.

Fire's Shadow
September 18th, 2006, 04:34 PM
i don't know much.i came in here some six weeks ago and i learned a lot
more than i can grasp right now
these are valuable pointers as to how minds work
whatever stances were taken
i pray for life
for peace
in unity
for a sanctuary
where love is free to grow
unimpeded

I've enjoyed your posts since you came here, ck. It was a breathe of fresh air. :hahugh:

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 04:37 PM
Ha! *I* recognized his worth while everyone else was doing the awilly dance about his words! :lol:

*tooting own horn ITT! ;) *

Fire's Shadow
September 18th, 2006, 04:38 PM
Psssh! I never once doubted it. :hahugh: ;)

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Psssh! I never once doubted it. :hahugh: ;)

Good, though I am fearing your ultimate banana dance...

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 04:49 PM
and whatever floor or whenever that elevator i pray for is stuck
i take the staircase despite its swirling mindless steps
not frozen into waiting at the door
anywhere

AutumnWitchie
September 18th, 2006, 04:59 PM
Now, I have stood up for myself, the underdog and the discordians and all those who also stand for the terrible transitions that have taken place here. Bannings without warning, heck there have been bannings without any reason when some were not even around!!! Threads closed and swept away before anyone can speak their case. Threads have been deleted for crying out loud. That's something that's is never done.
Even I wonder if one day when I come to log on if I will receive the message....go away.

Community, not anymore. Its divided, split and only those who agree are safe from the unfairness.
Mw stood for tolerance/ acceptance, not anymore...I saw the cruel treatment of another faith (not discordian).
Mw stood for equality, not anymore. I have seen people targeted because they are not fitting into a nice package.

I am not a child. I am not ignorant. I have watched and watched. I have been here for a few years. I have seen the change and its ugly as hell.

Maybe someday people will awaken.
If not, maybe honesty may prevail and the truth will be laid out...nope that's ridiculous.

I put a lot of myself here. An awful lot. Its hard to let go.

Shanti, I very much agree with you. I've seen some people banned or called out over the smallest thing. I've seen others get away with continual disrepect with nary a second glance. I gave up on the report button awhile back. It appears some people get "warning" after "warning" but are still doing the same crap. I've never been a prolific poster but I have quietly watched. The attitude lately is "ignore this and it'll go away" and "if you don't like it, leave". The current mood on MW actually reminds me of a Baptist church I was forced to attend as a teenager. I'm trying to ride this out but I too, wonder when I'll go to sign on and find I'm banned because I happen to be a member of another board that some folks don't like. I have kept silent for a long time due mainly to the fact I'm pretty much a loner(and I am sure there are some of you that would like me to remain silent). I don't understand why some members don't seem to want any kind of differing opinion. It is, after all, through our differences that we learn and grow as a community.

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 05:01 PM
Gee AutumnWitchie, it is like deja vu for me to read your post, and as for your comment about giving up on the report button I have as well.

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 05:03 PM
flying fish band stomp

Twinkle
September 18th, 2006, 05:04 PM
Ha! *I* recognized his worth while everyone else was doing the awilly dance about his words! :lol:

*tooting own horn ITT! ;) *


I'm just now starting to get him....but at least I do....

Not tooting my own horn, as I got it late.....

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Jenne http://mysticwicks.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=2808294#post2808294)
Ha! *I* recognized his worth while everyone else was doing the awilly dance about his words! :lol:

*tooting own horn ITT! ;) *
Where was I when others were doing this dance? :) I found alot of what he has said through out the forum "interesting" thus why I have a part of a post of his in my sig :) As for worth he is just as worthy as any one :D

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 05:09 PM
I'm just now starting to get him....but at least I do....

Not tooting my own horn, as I got it late.....


He's like a fine wine--an "acquired" taste.

And just as delicious.

Ok, gratuituous flattery ITT. :hehehehe:

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Where was I when others were doing this dance? :) I found alot of what he has said through out the forum "interesting" thus why I have a part of a post of his in my sig :) As for worth he is just as worthy as any one :D

He he. It was in PP. He'd post referential words in long strings and quatrains and folks were doing this: (I kid not)

:awilly:


While I was like this: :hehehehe:

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 05:10 PM
He's like a fine wine--an "acquired" taste.

And just as delicious.

Ok, gratuituous flattery ITT. :hehehehe::lol: well you know what they say about flattery don't ya Jenne? :boing:

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 05:12 PM
He he. It was in PP. He'd post referential words in long strings and quatrains and folks were doing this: (I kid not)

:awilly: Ah ok I saw some of that, for me I think it was his stuff in the PC forum that hit home for me :D

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 05:17 PM
:lol: well you know what they say about flattery don't ya Jenne? :boing:


;)

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 05:17 PM
Ah ok I saw some of that, for me I think it was his stuff in the PC forum that hit home for me :D

He's been reaching hearts and minds now for a while.

Thanks, coaxialkettle. We're indebted to ya!

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 05:20 PM
*wink *wink to you too :D



He's been reaching hearts and minds now for a while.

Thanks, coaxialkettle. We're indebted to ya! Yes he has and yes we are :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise:

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 05:26 PM
:smoochypo :smoochypo :javaswim: _catroll_ :crazy: :nyah: :abbed: :hehehehe: _inlove_ :fpompoms :ghost: :farmerjoe :rotfl: :idea: :idea: :loveydove

Shanti
September 18th, 2006, 05:32 PM
It is, after all, through our differences that we learn and grow as a community.
Gosh I remember that. It was common once, embracing difference, learning from it, sharing. I used to talk about that stuff all the time.

Shame walls don't have ears, huh?

Shanti
September 18th, 2006, 05:32 PM
coaxialkettle, the light in the dark. :)

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 05:35 PM
coaxialkettle Thank you for the laugh and smilies :D



Shame walls don't have ears, huh? And well even if they did they would still need to learn to listen :lol: Ok I am going now :D

Twinkle
September 18th, 2006, 05:37 PM
coaxialkettle, the light in the dark. :)


Troof!

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Well there ain't nobody safer than someone who doesn't care


And it isn't even lonely when no-one's ever there


I had a lot of dreams once, but some of them came true


The honey's sometimes bitter when fortune falls on you


So you know I've been a soldier in the armies of the night


And I'll find the fatal error in what's otherwise all right


But now you're trembling like a sparrow, I will try with all my might


To give you just a little sweetness


Just a little light



I have always heard that virtue ought to be its own reward


But it never comes so easy when you're living by the sword


It's even harder to be heartless when you look at me that way


You're as mighty as the flower that will grow the stones away


Even though I've been a stranger full of irony and spite


Holding little but contempt for all things beautiful and bright


Something shines around you and it seems, to my delight


To give me just a little sweetness


Just a little light



It could be just another highway coiled up in the night


You could be just another white-tail, baby, stranded on my brights


There's a tingling recognition like the sound of distant thunder


And I begin to wonder if the love I've driven under won't ignite


(Barlow,G:.D:.)

Bethra
September 18th, 2006, 06:16 PM
NOT ADMIN MODE BUT SFS COMMUNITY MEMBER
There were no winners.
Everyone lost.
Everyone is accountable for their own actions and perceptions.
Mob mentality destroys it doesn't build.

It's time to stop.

Why is this being called Mob Mentality? I do not speek as a group, I speek out of my own frustrations. I fail to understand why anyone who speeks out of the subject of freedom of speech is called for having a Mob Mentality. IMO that is both disrespectfull and down right rude.

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 06:48 PM
Why is this being called Mob Mentality? I do not speek as a group, I speek out of my own frustrations. I fail to understand why anyone who speeks out of the subject of freedom of speech is called for having a Mob Mentality. IMO that is both disrespectfull and down right rude.

I don't think that post was directed at you personally either. There has been a lot of shite here lately, and there have been a lot of people involved, not just you.

SwordsFlameSong
September 18th, 2006, 06:52 PM
**Admin Mode**

Y'all abviously have concerns that you want addressed. This is fine. Let's address them but not on the boards seriously.

PM me your concerns and why. Show me what you think is favoritism and so on. Let's deal with the facts that you feel support your concerns and actually discuss it.

Thank you

SwordsFlameSong
September 18th, 2006, 06:57 PM
Why is this being called Mob Mentality? I do not speek as a group, I speek out of my own frustrations. I fail to understand why anyone who speeks out of the subject of freedom of speech is called for having a Mob Mentality. IMO that is both disrespectfull and down right rude.


Bethra please check your pms I dealt with your concern on this there from something based on what you sent me.

However for the record I was speaking generally and not thinking of anyone in particular. If I had been I would have clearly stated that.

I have as much right to state my opinion as any other member of the community.

Twinkle
September 18th, 2006, 07:15 PM
I will say this:

There is a huge difference between wanting to air grievances and work things out...than there is to bitch just for bitching's sake.

Some people....and I'm speaking in general terms.....not calling anyone out....have no interest in resolving anything...they just want to create trouble.

I think at this point in time it's difficult to tell who is sincere and who just wants to wreak havoc... people have jumped on the bandwagon in a way that is not helping anything...that's why it's better to address concerns privately.

Those who truly want change and resolution will be heard. Those that want to create a public spectacle won't bother to pm or e-mail. It differentiates the two rather quickly.

Philosophia
September 18th, 2006, 07:19 PM
I'm posting this again because it covers my feelings exactly (and I'm too tired to type it all out again):

Originally Posted by Minerva Mind
I know somehow deep down, I'm going to get into trouble for saying this...but

I do agree that favoritism exists here and I have seen it many times, especially considering what people define as trolling, etc.. I have seen many posts that are completely disrespectful and have been reported, yet the members get no reprimand. I have also seen the admins get jumped on by making their decisions (and no, I'm not naming names or anything like that). I have seen people defend "undefendable" members while screaming the vicitimization attitude. I have seen members get away with a lot more than most but I've seen people banned (for 3 days) for a lot less.
I don't know if I'm the only one but the rules are undefinable right now. I do know Mol is working on that but its becoming a serious issue when members are now feeling attacked.
I always thought being an admin you have to remain objective, without favoritism or prejudice. While I also acknowledge that they are human, I don't find it fair when particular members are labelled "trolls" and others, who reportedly do much worse, are left alone. Little "groups" have sprung up and many either appeal to the vicitimization attitude, sterotypes, elitest, etc. and are being catered for by the admin's and other "older" members.
I may not have been here for very long and I absolutely love this community. You have all helped me in more ways than I can state and for that, I thank you all deeply.
However, for this community to continue growing and maturing, we must abolish the "favoritism" that is so apparent. If a member disrespects another member, regardless of whether you agree with their opinion or not, they should be treated just like everybody else. Unfortunately, this is not occuring and its causing great divisions and unrest.

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 07:45 PM
I will say this:

There is a huge difference between wanting to air grievances and work things out...than there is to bitch just for bitching's sake.

Some people....and I'm speaking in general terms.....not calling anyone out....have no interest in resolving anything...they just want to create trouble.

I think at this point in time it's difficult to tell who is sincere and who just wants to wreak havoc... people have jumped on the bandwagon in a way that is not helping anything...that's why it's better to address concerns privately.

Those who truly want change and resolution will be heard. Those that want to create a public spectacle won't bother to pm or e-mail. It differentiates the two rather quickly.

I said it before but it bears repeating... the admins have admitted there is a problem and they are working on it. I agree with ya, Twinkle. Those who sincerely want to work this out will work with the admins towards a solution, not try to split the community with taking sides.

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Taking sides? :eyebrow:

Philosophia
September 18th, 2006, 07:52 PM
I said it before but it bears repeating... the admins have admitted there is a problem and they are working on it. I agree with ya, Twinkle. Those who sincerely want to work this out will work with the admins towards a solution, not try to split the community with taking sides.

Taking sides? So admitting that there is a problem is "taking sides"?

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 07:54 PM
The wall on which the prophets wrote
is cracking at the seams
upon the instruments of death
the sunlight brightly gleams
when every man is torn apart
with nightmares and with dreams
will no one lay the laurel weed
as silence drowns the screams?
confusion
will be my epitaph
as i crawl a cracked and broken path
if we make it
we can all sit back and laugh
but i fear tomorrow
i'll be crying...
(peter sinfield)

SilverClaw
September 18th, 2006, 07:56 PM
The wall on which the prophets wrote
is cracking at the seams
upon the instruments of death
the sunlight brightly gleams
when every man is torn apart
with nightmares and with dreams
will no one lay the laurel weed
as silence drowns the screams?
confusion
will be my epitaph
as i crawl a cracked and broken path
if we make it
we can all sit back and laugh
but i fear tomorrow
i'll be crying...
(peter sinfield) Wow I like that alot.

evie_mun
September 18th, 2006, 07:58 PM
I'm posting this again because it covers my feelings exactly (and I'm too tired to type it all out again):

Originally Posted by Minerva Mind
I know somehow deep down, I'm going to get into trouble for saying this...but

I do agree that favoritism exists here and I have seen it many times, especially considering what people define as trolling, etc.. I have seen many posts that are completely disrespectful and have been reported, yet the members get no reprimand. I have also seen the admins get jumped on by making their decisions (and no, I'm not naming names or anything like that). I have seen people defend "undefendable" members while screaming the vicitimization attitude. I have seen members get away with a lot more than most but I've seen people banned (for 3 days) for a lot less.
I don't know if I'm the only one but the rules are undefinable right now. I do know Mol is working on that but its becoming a serious issue when members are now feeling attacked.
I always thought being an admin you have to remain objective, without favoritism or prejudice. While I also acknowledge that they are human, I don't find it fair when particular members are labelled "trolls" and others, who reportedly do much worse, are left alone. Little "groups" have sprung up and many either appeal to the vicitimization attitude, sterotypes, elitest, etc. and are being catered for by the admin's and other "older" members.
I may not have been here for very long and I absolutely love this community. You have all helped me in more ways than I can state and for that, I thank you all deeply.
However, for this community to continue growing and maturing, we must abolish the "favoritism" that is so apparent. If a member disrespects another member, regardless of whether you agree with their opinion or not, they should be treated just like everybody else. Unfortunately, this is not occuring and its causing great divisions and unrest.

I feel the exact same way. I took somewhat of a sabbatical from MW as my brother got me a membership onto another forum. I'd pop my head in from time to time and see what exactly was going on, especially in PP as that is the part of MW I frequent the most. I came back fully and posted a bit as a friend of mine who lurks on here alerted me to the presence of a "fundie" who had made his way onto the forums. People attacked him outright, when he had done nothing to provoke any ill thought from people. I'm not proud to say that I was one of those people. I got caught up in the 'bash the fundie before he preaches' mentality, and I made some comments that were absolutely inappropriate, disrespectful, and downright crude. It was wrong of me, and I was reprimanded only once in post by an admin, which I accepted, but no further punishment.

However, there were others in that situation who said and did far worse than me, longtime members who I saw not a word said to. Similarly, there have been longtime members whose posts I have reported time and time again, because of their purely disrespectful attitude, and I have yet to see one of them even put back in line, while I've seen other members banned for only a fraction of the same crimes. Also, I've seen members banned even quicker than that for questioning the actions of the admins for banning one person, but not banning another.

I'm probably pulling myself into the shitstorm by posting this too, but I don't care. MW to me when I came upon it was like coming across a rare gem in a pile of mud. It's something I never expected to find, people I never expected could be so loving and kind to a name over the internet, and a community I never expected could be so supportive. Since my joining here, these things that I have loved so much about MW have gone down the crapper. There are skeletons in the closet, there is dust that has been swept under the run. Foul play has been afoot between certain members and certain admins that has been covered up.

I've been watching with disgust since I came back, a little too afraid to post on the subject, but I'm through with that. I'm tired of seeing favoritism, I'm tired of seeing admins sweeping the matter under the run and then forbidding us from speaking of it. This is our forum too, we are the members, and these are our friends who are being banned without so much as a word while other offenders have remained untouched on the forums. This has got to stop. Some justice has to be brought back to the forums.

And if speaking out against the admins gets me banned, then so be it. It only further proves my point that the second someone steps out of line and questions their actions, that person is labelled by them and banned.

Just the way I've been watching it go down. I don't want this gem to fade or disappear. I love this community, and I wish it could go back to the way it was.

Lunacie
September 18th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Taking sides? So admitting that there is a problem is "taking sides"?

Huh? I admitted that there's a problem. The admins have admitted there's a problem. They're working on it. There shouldn't be any need to take sides. I'll clean my glasses if you think I need to but that's what I've been seeing.

Jenne
September 18th, 2006, 08:33 PM
The constant reply is always: Discuss in pm's. Do not air concerns on the board.

I disagree fundamentally with this at just such a time when there is a specific phenomenon to be discussed, explained and dealt with.

And, I have personally tried the pm path. It leads to more frustration and the endgoal is the same: nowhere.

So, I speak little on this as opposed to others. I take a different path than rantings, ravings and beratings.

However, I reserve the right to speak as a community member with a stake in MW's future. I have not treated anyone with disrespect--despite what others in PP might call my opinions.

I am careful to reserve my legitimacy here...my anger has not yet pushed me to the lengths I've seen others pushed to in order to make their points. This in turn saddens and dismays me. I am deeply loyal to the cause of heralding unfair abuses.

However...to what length are we to go to to accept general gag orders that go on in a place we once saw as our home? Our family? Our soul sisters and brothers.

My sig makes my post.

Philosophia
September 18th, 2006, 08:39 PM
Huh? I admitted that there's a problem. The admins have admitted there's a problem. They're working on it. There shouldn't be any need to take sides. I'll clean my glasses if you think I need to but that's what I've been seeing.

What sides though? I don't think anybody is taking "sides" in this situation. People are getting upset and voicing their concerns and opinions in relation to what has been happening. It goes beyond "discordians & subgenii vs. admins" into a much bigger issue that does encompass a lot of change that has been occuring in the last couple of months (and, no, I'm saying anybody here thinks that...its just how I've perceived things).

Just a comment relating to this (and not directed at anybody); You cannot place people into two categories. Just because we're placing our views on the board and not via PM or e-mail doesn't mean we are making trouble.

Kaylara
September 18th, 2006, 10:03 PM
First, I'm going to repost something I originally posted waaay back in 2001.


Let me speak my mind on this issue...

I think that strong opinions are good, and I am very passionate about what I do. But in the same respect, people need to take other people into consideration when they are deciding how they are going to speak their mind about a particular subject. It's a little thing that my parents like to call "tact." (something they often accuse me of having none of.) It's just like manners. Why do we have manners, why are manners important? Because it shows respect for the people around you.

I don't ask that people change their views, or stop being passionate, or stop discussing things. But lets try to see the difference between discussing and arguing. Discussing is where you actually absorb enough of what the other people are saying to make an informed opinion about it. You can actually have an intellegent conversation on most subjects because you are actually listening and responding to what the other people are saying. When you argue, everyone gets so heated up about a particular part of the conversation that no one listens to what the other person is saying. And then people get frustrated, and start acting like spoiled children having a temper tantrum. It's only when we take a step back and a deep breath that we can get back to the heart of the issue that started said arguement. Just like Mommy sending the kids to seperate areas of the house to cool down.

But I digress...

I am not asking you all to be super sweet to each other... I don't care if you even like each other. But I am saying that you should at least be somewhat cordial to each other. If you don't like someone so much, that everything that you read by them makes you angry, put them on ignore. Or don't read their posts. Very simple.

And personally, there are plenty of people on this board who I am glad to say are part of my family. I have gotten to know these people over the past 9 months just as I would someone IRL... There are many people here who have spent a lot of time and effort and put a ton of energy into this community. And these are the people who I work with here on a daily basis, and in fact have more contact with many of the people on this board than I do my blood family. I feel it is my responsibility to make sure that I don't let myself get out of hand here. It's a part of being in any community. You can't just run over people who get in your way or who disagree with you... That is how people get hurt.

Kaylara

Well, 6 years on, it's still relevant.

Secondly, and yes I know some of you are not going to believe this no matter what I say, but I do not hate discordians, nor have I been singling them out, attacking them, harassing them, or treating them in anyway that I think is unfair or disrespectful. There are plenty of discordians who are still on this site because they refused to get sucked into the bs. I think that shows great maturity on their part and I am quite happy to see them still posting. It was discordians originally who were claiming that it was discordians who were being singled out as trouble makers. I give very little attention to whatever path you're on, and much more to what you're doing. If people who are acting badly are all a member of a particular path, I can't help that.

Thirdly, (yes, I have quite a few points to make in one post.) I have tried to answer questions and concerns to the best of my ability to do so. Asking questions is not discouraged. But we ask that you do so appropriately and respectfully. Calling someone a Fascist, Nazi, Communist whore and then screaming at them to answer you is not appropriate and will not get you a decent answer from anyone. We ask that drama be kept off the board because this has ALWAYS been the policy that Mol has followed. We don't want flame/troll wars here. Bringing drama and causing problems for the entirety of the community because you have an issue with something is not respectful to the community at large. Therefore we have always asked that things be discussed privately if there are issues or questions with the staff.

We admins do not operate in a vacuum. There is a need for the position, and we are there to take care of issues that arise. We are also members of this community and we care very much about the well-being of the entire community. Any issues that arise are discussed between the whole of the admin staff unless the issue in question is so bad that immediate action is warranted. And even then we will discuss it after the fact. We review each other's moderations when requested. And when Mol decides that he doesn't want certain things on his site, we take that direction and act accordingly. Being an admin does not mean that we have a giant target on our foreheads and that we deserve any more or any less than any other member on this site. No one should come here and be harassed, threatened, intimidated, flamebaited, trolled, or spammed.

Someone else's bad behavior does not mean you can behave badly. "He started it!" didn't work when we were children, and it doesn't work here. I expect the children on the site to act like children, and the adults should not be acting the same way.

I have answered all constructive questions as best as I could at any given time. I've dealt with people attacking me, calling me names, baiting me, flaming me, harassing me, ridiculing me, and threatening me with bodily harm. This is not a constructive way to get your point across. Do you really think that anyone would react well to his kind of behavior? Furthermore, is that a level of conduct that the members of this site are prepared to allow? If you are not upset with the conduct of your fellow posters who acted like this then you are sending a clear message to the staff here that it's appropriate in your eyes. I frankly find it very funny that I'm being accused of having a double standard and then have a serious double standard on the part of the community thrown in my face. If you are prepared to accept members acting like this, then the staff will adapt to what the community wants.

I am not free of my biases. But I say this honestly that there are very few people in this world that I hate, and none of them are on this site. If I don't feel like I can handle an issue, I ask someone else to step in and deal with it unless I absolutely have to deal with it right exactly at that moment.

Moderations and Admin modes are not personal attacks on you if you get one. You might be upset about it, but it's nothing personal against you in particular. If you see someone else getting away with bad behavior and you don't see it being handled, for the love of the gods, report it. It's very possible that we missed it. We're averaging more than 1000 new posts a day easily. Even with more staff, we still need the community to do their part in reporting inappropriate conduct on the site. If there's a question about it, the admins discuss it and decide how to proceed. Sometimes we don't think anything needs to be done. Sometimes things are addressed in private with the member rather than publically. (depending on the issue.) Sometimes we need to address it publically. It really depends on the situation. If you are upset because you think something is unfair, or not handled to your liking, please contact one of the admins. (whoever you prefer to deal with.)

You don't have to like me. I don't have to like you. You don't have to stop asking questions, or be fluffy or super sweet. You don't need to walk on eggshells or dumb down everything or stop having opinions on anything. But similarly you don't have to troll, flamebait, attack, harass, spam, and insult each other. If you're respectful, then you'll have very little problems regardless of whatever questions you're asking or what you're discussing. If you ask me an honest question, I'll answer you as best as I can.

And finally, (woo!) as to the mob mentality. It was Jenne who mentioned it first. As such, I am going to address it. If you are frustrated, you are much more likely to jump on a bandwagon condemning whatever it is that frustrated you. I want you to think for yourself. Don't just swallow whatever crap keeps getting repeated. Thinking for yourself does not mean you are going to come to the same conclusions as everyone else. It also doesn't mean that you swallow whatever someone keeps shouting, or that you should buy into the "us against them" bs. We're a community here people, not a rioting mob. If you're frustrated or upset about something, try contacting another member, a peer councellor, or if it's about the site, an admin. We don't turn around and dismiss concerns. We do take them into consideration and discuss them. If you don't contact us about it, then you really have no grounds for being upset when nothing is done about it. We may be pagans, but trying to read 20,000 minds is not something we're going to attempt to do.

So, I know this is horrifically long now, but if you have any questions on this post, or if you have any grievances or issues, please feel free to contact me. Even if you don't think I like you, I'm going to treat you with the same seriousness and courtesy that I would give anyone on this site. And if I don't feel able to deal with you fairly, or I can't deal with your question, I'll forward it to another admin who can.

coaxialkettle
September 18th, 2006, 11:02 PM
i can live with a lot.and i do.i also know how very dangerous it can be
to be a writer.a war correspondent.a photographer.we live in times of
great uncertainty,where ideas and ideals get raped and torn by rabid
and power crazed desperados clinging to their privileges at any cost
and that my friends includes the most despicable forms of sublimated
cannibalism in the guise of war propaganda driven opinion ever seen
since WWII.No wonder our US members are a bit divided and apprehensive
in their approach to all that,but,some of us are in other jurisdictions and
cannot be directed into a slot force majeure position on that war..."we've
always been at war with Eurasia"...Cars love $hell...the Poop has eye-slam
up his arse&c&c&c.we all need a vacation from ourselves when the soup gets as thick as it gets.Being truthful in days like these and trying to Be&Do is good enough, a little bit of that spiritual sanctuary in the here and now,the one in the clouds will
surely take care of it's own...
of that spiritual sanctuary
etc. etc. ect. we do not
live on a map with 1.8 kids and a ˝ dog...none of us...
Ktl,just passin'thru& lover of clarity in the clear with previous poster

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 12:00 AM
Well, I haven't finished this whole thread but a couple of things have occured to me so far.

First is where are these early referenced cliques? Because, I want to join one. And, how do you get to be one of the favorites? Because, that sounds like fun, too.

Kaylara
September 19th, 2006, 12:29 AM
I don't know. If you find out, could you let me in on it?

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 06:08 AM
I don't know. If you find out, could you let me in on it?
Right! But, if I tell you, everyone will want to know.

You know, all this whining about wanting "fair and equal" never made any sense to me.

They could just as easily set their goals higher and strive for "preference", which any fool knows is more desirable to have!

Some people have a lot to learn about goal setting.

Jenne
September 19th, 2006, 08:20 AM
Way to triviliaze everything into an ad hominem, Ssanf. *eyeroll*

Kay, I understand your points. I put it to you thusly, however: Plenty of people that OTHERWISE behaved themselves as set up by the forum rules when they signed up blew up and and uncharacteristic vicious attacks here when and as they were leaving.

Why is that?

Why go to such lengths to make such a simple statement of: We want to be heard. We want to have our say. We want to be treated as equals. ???

The divide down the middle of the board happened organically AND inorganically. Denying this is disingenuous and muddies the waters with unintentional yet ingrained prejudice against board members. In the imbalance of the power paradigm, there are always bound to be those who chafe under *any* manacle of restraint...self-imposed or not.

However, this was not a case of rogue assholes out for jollies. I'd say 90% at least was the case of individuals tired of being cast out as villains of the piece. And once they'd done the time long enough, they figured, *shrug*, might as well do the crime.

What's missing in your argument, Kay, is that a strong community is not just ruled with the iron fist of order.

Instead, it's also ruled with the gloved hand of understanding and compassion. The misuse and misplacement of such velvet pieces were left behind in the fray. When objectivity could not be reached, found and utilised, it should have become imminently clear that immediate vacations from said positions of power would be necessary, and hence carried out forthwith.

I can't say that, in your shoes, I'd have been much different. Defending my husband, defending myself, against constant attack is no one's pleasure. But I think, nay, know, that the majority of those criticisms would have fallen on deaf and unsympathetic ears here in the community if there wasn't SOME basis for them so very evident in the past few weeks.

I'll leave it there. I've given enough food for thought for even my own poor tired brain at 5:20 in the a.m.

I thank you though for not shutting this thread but instead coming and explaining. That, to me, is worth much.

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 09:22 AM
Seems to me that MOL recently did try to set up a system that was intended to be both fair and equal. There was to be a point system so that all infractions could be treated equally. A person would be able to see how many points they had. The consequences of infractions would be clearly spelled out. Additionally, there was to be a place where a person could contest points given and others could also offer insights. There was the opportunity to have the points removed if they had been given in error.

To me this seemed imminently fair and just in its conception and in its goals.

And, what did MOL get for his trouble? Nothing but grief and abuse for even trying. In fact, there was so much abuse going on that he had to stop the effort before it was even 24 hours old. I have never seen posters acting like such a pack of animals in my life. The abuse directed toward the sole moderator who was on duty that night was unconscionable. It was shameful.

So, you know what? After that, I just have no sympathy toward any whines about the justice of moderation around here.

The MW administration went to great efforts to try to find solutions before the recent debacle and got almost no support for their efforts, not even the courtesy of people being willing to give it a fair trial of a week or two, not even a reasonable discussion of how the system could be improved and made workable.

As I recall, some of the people complaining so vituperously, now, were the very same ones who disparaged and undermined an impressive good faith effort to fix the problems. So, if the moderation as is doesn't suit, oh well. Maybe, they should have worked with MOL and helped instead if trashing the effort to make things more fair.

I sure as heck would like to see THEM come up with a fair system. And, you know what, if they did, I bet it wouldn't be much unlike what was recently offered. But, I don't think they really want fairness. If they did, they would have tired to help create a workable system. Nope, I bet they want preference because you can't get that by keeping track with equally applied, predetermined consequenses for behavior and being able to contest unfair moderations like the proposed system would have done. Fairness is objective. Preference is purely subjective. And, they sure as heck had a whole lot of problems with the late attempt to make moderation objective.

And, you know what I think is really unfair? I think it is unfair to roundly abuse the administration and mods when they try to come up with a method to fix the moderation and then turn around and whine that the moderation is no good. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

Lunacie
September 19th, 2006, 09:28 AM
Seems to me that MOL recently did try to set up a system that was intended to be both fair and equal. There was to be a point system so that all infractions could be treated equally. A person would be able to see how many points they had. The consequences of infractions would be clearly spelled out. Additionally, there was to be a place where a person could contest points given and others could also offer insights. There was the opportunity to have the points removed if they had been given in error.

To me this seemed imminently fair and just in its conception and in its goals.

And, what did MOL get for his trouble? Nothing but grief and abuse for even trying. In fact, there was so much abuse going on that he had to stop the effort before it was even 24 hours old. I have never seen posters acting like such a pack of animals in my life.

So, you know what? After that, I just have no sympathy toward any whines about the justice of moderation around here.

The MW administration went to great efforts to try to find solutions before the recent debacle and got almost no support for their efforts, not even the courtesy of people being willing to give it a fair trial of a week or two.

As I recall, some of the people complaining so vituperously now, were the very same ones who disparaged and undermined an impressive good faith effort to fix the problems. So, if the moderation as is doesn't suite, oh well. Maybe, they should have worked with MOL and helped instead if trashing the effort to make things more fair.

I don't know where to find the mittens icon - but pretend you can see them here... ( ). I don't always agree with you Ssanf, but this time I'm with you all the way. You've just wrapped up everything I've been trying to say for several days now. Guard your butt Ssanf, you've just painted a big old target on it.

Kaylara
September 19th, 2006, 09:57 AM
Way to triviliaze everything into an ad hominem, Ssanf. *eyeroll*

Kay, I understand your points. I put it to you thusly, however: Plenty of people that OTHERWISE behaved themselves as set up by the forum rules when they signed up blew up and and uncharacteristic vicious attacks here when and as they were leaving.

Why is that?

Why go to such lengths to make such a simple statement of: We want to be heard. We want to have our say. We want to be treated as equals. ???

The divide down the middle of the board happened organically AND inorganically. Denying this is disingenuous and muddies the waters with unintentional yet ingrained prejudice against board members. In the imbalance of the power paradigm, there are always bound to be those who chafe under *any* manacle of restraint...self-imposed or not.

However, this was not a case of rogue assholes out for jollies. I'd say 90% at least was the case of individuals tired of being cast out as villains of the piece. And once they'd done the time long enough, they figured, *shrug*, might as well do the crime.

What's missing in your argument, Kay, is that a strong community is not just ruled with the iron fist of order.

Instead, it's also ruled with the gloved hand of understanding and compassion. The misuse and misplacement of such velvet pieces were left behind in the fray. When objectivity could not be reached, found and utilised, it should have become imminently clear that immediate vacations from said positions of power would be necessary, and hence carried out forthwith.

I can't say that, in your shoes, I'd have been much different. Defending my husband, defending myself, against constant attack is no one's pleasure. But I think, nay, know, that the majority of those criticisms would have fallen on deaf and unsympathetic ears here in the community if there wasn't SOME basis for them so very evident in the past few weeks.

I'll leave it there. I've given enough food for thought for even my own poor tired brain at 5:20 in the a.m.

I thank you though for not shutting this thread but instead coming and explaining. That, to me, is worth much.

I'm not in the habit of closing threads arbitrarily unless expressly directed to do so by Mol, who I think, as the owner of the site, has the right to have his staff close any threads on a particular subject if he feels that is the appropriate action to take.

This entire thing did not start with the Infraction system. There were a few members who joined up shortly before that who came in and immediately started screaming about harassment and oppression. But then the infraction system was put into action and any real questions and any concerned were totally drowned out by a few people who couldn't stop shreeking that it would be the death of the community, and we were going to steal your pms, and that we were Nazi's. Some people even set out to bring it down, and when it did they patted themselves on the back for sabotaging it. For my part, I tried discussing things. I got some actual responses but the majority of the responses were "Help help I'm being repressed! Do you see her repressing me????" If everything I say gets that kind of a response no matter how respectful I am then the people doing that have a problem. Not me.

Even prior to this whole business, if there were problems, why didn't people follow the channels we requested be followed and work with us to fix the issues? Why didn't they bother prior to this to talk to Mol about it? We know that we're not infallable. We know that mistakes are made, and we know that not every thing here is perfect and probably never will be. For every two people I make happy with a decision, I make another one unhappy. We cannot please everyone on here, nor or we going to try to, because with this many members it's just not feasible. But even now, I have gotten possibly two to three pms during this entire fiasco discussing issues and I think they were from the same two people. That does not show me that most people actually wanted to work this out or fix anything. It shows me that they were enjoying a chance to harass people who they had some kind of a grudge against, (because no, it was not just admins getting flak). And I'll say this again, some people take any moderation at all of them as a personal attack, no matter what they did or what you say. Some people cannot handle that you cannot run amok on this site, or insult and attack people. And some people just have problems controlling themselves.

And for the record, I feel no need to defend my husband. He was an admin before we started dating, and he can fight his own battles. I only jump in as an admin when another admin is being attacked. At that point Xentor just happened to be the target, but I would have reacted the same way had any of the staff members been attacked and harassed. That is entirely unacceptable behavior. When Xentor behaved badly (although I do know the reasoning behind it, it's still no excuse.) I was the one who told him off, I was the one who told him I was going to ban him if he didn't stop, I was the one who had to deal with the fallout of having to do that.

If Mol had felt at any moment that we were not doing our job properly then we wouldn't have needed to vacate our positions because we would have been thrown out of them. It's happened in the past, and I'm sure it will happen in the future. And for every person screaming about oppression and problems that they never bothered to address with the staff prior to tall this, we've had a huge number of people who have supported how we have reacted. These same people may not have been vocal about it after seeing how anyone who didn't outright or covertly attack us got jumped on by other members, and who could blame them? Who needs that kind of bs?

We do not rule with an iron fist. We try to work with the community. But there is no reasoning with an angry mob. And at some point we have to say that enough is enough and we're not going to allow an angry mob to intimidate every person on this site. Personally, because of the perceived prejudice on my part, I've been reluctant to even do my job, even when I'm out right attacked. Because that just fuels the fire. So I've let Mol deal with it, and he decided that enough was enough and banned the people involved in the attacking.

There are more constructive ways of inacting change and working out a situation than throwing a temper tantrum when you don't get your way.

On this site, people always have the decision of posting something or not. We are on a message board. If you get upset, you can step away and consider the issue without verbally assaulting someone else. If you decide that you cannot control your behavior you can leave and come back when you are more calm. But if you go the other way and decide to harass and attack people, then you will be dealt with accordingly, and you should expect to be called out on your behavior. I call no one a villain, and have not called anyone a villain during this entire episode. As far as I've seen some people have been calling themselves villains, and trying to convince others that they're the underdog and oh so repressed because of it. And some people have believed what they said and thus felt that joining in the mob was appropriate. That's fine. But if they are acting like a mob, they're going to be treated like a mob. We don't allow people on here who are going to intimidate the entire membership of the community so that they can get their way.

So, as I said before, think for yourself. Review the evidence at hand and know that I have quite a bit of evidence that you don't know about. (Although if needed I will provide part of that privately.) But don't accept a conclusion from someone else just because they say that's the conclusion. Make up your own mind about it after you educate yourself on the situation.

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 10:12 AM
I think all the mods deserve a big round of applause for their willingness to do a job both hard and thankless for the benefit of the community and for no other reason than for the love of the community.

As you all know, I have been moderated from time to time, too. If that alone were reason to go into a tizzy and attack the mods, well I could do as good a job as anyone. I have the talent and skill.

But, I don't agree with it in any way, shape or form. Whether you think they are right wrong or indifferent, at least, have the class to acknowledge that it takes guts to even try such an unappreciated and unrewarding task.

Few of us are given to perfection and neither are the mods. If they were, they would, obviously, think every post I make is brilliant.

Twinkle
September 19th, 2006, 10:30 AM
Honestly....what I saw happening was a group of individuals that did have honest grievances....and then a bunch of other immature individuals that jumped on those issues and created a huge shitstorm.

So...the original message was lost in the crossfire.

There are those that still feel there are problems..and really, every community like this has problems.

There are still people on this board that just want to continue the flame war. People like me that are relatively new can see both sides of the issue. While I agree with a lot of what's been voiced here, I don't see how registering on the site with a username like Xentor is a Fascist helps the "cause".

LostSheep
September 19th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Does anyone mind if I just ask something? (I was just passing by and I noticed this thread, I don't usually hang out around here). How long was the infraction system planned before it was introduced? it seemed to just suddenly appear out of nowhere, with the only hints being a couple of cryptic comments from mol a couple of weeks before, and then suddenly an email appeared one morning. The timing of it, soon after a couple of threads started concerning "oppression", did make me wonder a bit ... as if it was rushed through a bit in an attempt to show that it was all run evenly handed (even handedly? whatever), almost as if it was prompted by those complaints about "oppression". The irony being that I thought that moderations up until then were very fair and not at all heavy handed, and then suddenly everyone was afraid to say anything. (And also, i couldn't help thinking, in the brief time it was running, that there seemed to be some inconsistencies in the way the infractions were handed out, but that's in the past now).

Anyway, just a thought, sorry to interrupt.

Kaylara
September 19th, 2006, 10:34 AM
Thank goddess you didn't see the subsequent names that person signed up under. ;) It was a troll, just as their prior two incarnations on here were trolls. And some people knew it was a troll and decided that they could cause a ruckus by defending an obvious troll. *shrugs* It's not meant to help anything. It's meant to cause problems. And if your only reason for being here is to cause problems, then you're not going to be here for very long.

Twinkle
September 19th, 2006, 10:36 AM
My first day here was when the Infraction System was set in place. IMO the intent was to create an environment to show that things were handled fairly, so that people could have a voice, and that moderations could actually be changed if they were incorrect.

It was a great idea...but from what I could see not thoroughly thought out. The problems then incurred because people saw the glaring inconsistencies with the system and felt the it was worse than what was already in place.

It was a fantastic attempt....but it ended badly.

Athena-Nadine
September 19th, 2006, 10:36 AM
I think all the mods deserve a big round of applause for their willingness to do a job both hard and thankless for the benefit of the community and for no other reason than for the love of the community.

As you all know, I have been moderated from time to time, too. If that alone were reason to go into a tizzy and attack the mods, well I could do as good a job as anyone. I have the talent and skill.

But, I don't agree with it in any way, shape or form. Whether you think they are right wrong or indifferent, at least, have the class to acknowledge that it takes guts to even try such an unappreciated and unrewarding task.

Few of us are given to perfection and neither are the mods. If they were, they would, obviously, think every post I make is brilliant.

Let me just say that I would hate to see you go into a tizzy. That, I think, would be certain to incite a riot! :p ;) :lol:

Twinkle
September 19th, 2006, 10:38 AM
My first day here was when the Infraction System was set in place. IMO the intent was to create an environment to show that things were handled fairly, so that people could have a voice, and that moderations could actually be changed if they were incorrect.

It was a great idea...but from what I could see not thoroughly thought out. The problems then incurred because people saw the glaring inconsistencies with the system and felt the it was worse than what was already in place.

It was a fantastic attempt....but it ended badly.

Unfortunately...I have a big mouth and actually fueled that whole thing without knowing there was any drama going on.

Still though, there were problems with the system.

To castigate Admin for at least trying is imo unfair.

Kaylara
September 19th, 2006, 10:39 AM
Does anyone mind if I just ask something? (I was just passing by and I noticed this thread, I don't usually hang out around here). How long was the infraction system planned before it was introduced? it seemed to just suddenly appear out of nowhere, with the only hints being a couple of cryptic comments from mol a couple of weeks before, and then suddenly an email appeared one morning. The timing of it, soon after a couple of threads started concerning "oppression", did make me wonder a bit ... as if it was rushed through a bit in an attempt to show that it was all run evenly handed (even handedly? whatever), almost as if it was prompted by those complaints about "oppression". The irony being that I thought that moderations up until then were very fair and not at all heavy handed, and then suddenly everyone was afraid to say anything. (And also, i couldn't help thinking, in the brief time it was running, that there seemed to be some inconsistencies in the way the infractions were handed out, but that's in the past now).

Anyway, just a thought, sorry to interrupt.

Mol had mentioned it slightly previously to the admins as well as the community. We decided to try it out and see how it went and figured that any problems with it could be discussed and ironed out. The infractions were for the community and the admins. This way we didn't have to keep threads and reports on things forever to see how many times in the past year you've gotten warnings and for what. The system would have taken care of that automatically after we issued a warning. It also allowed a way for the community to discuss the infraction points that were given so that there was more community over sight.

It was an attempt by Mol to be more even and consistant to both the community and the admins. He wanted to try it. Who knows how it would have worked if it were not sabotaged? We were ironing out the issues, and giving infraction points as we would have under the old system. But it's gone now, and I don't know if Mol is ever going to attempt to reimpliment it.

Athena-Nadine
September 19th, 2006, 10:42 AM
It was an attempt by Mol to be more even and consistant to both the community and the admins. He wanted to try it. Who knows how it would have worked if it were not sabotaged? We were ironing out the issues, and giving infraction points as we would have under the old system. But it's gone now, and I don't know if Mol is ever going to attempt to reimpliment it.

Which is a shame, because I think that if given the chance for a proper "Beta" test, everyone would have found that it would have done exactly that.

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 10:49 AM
I think MOL was sort of thinking out loud. He actually posted and asked for member help in getting it started. He wanted to know what we thought the consequences should be instead of just telling us, like it or lump it, as he could have.

But, instead of getting the feedback he requested, he was abused in his absence. A sole mod was left to test the system unassisted. This, I think, was due to unanticipated staffing shortage.

Well, the abuse heaped on the mod that night was beyond a doubt the most unfair, disrespectful and abusive bit of posting, that I have ever witnessed.

AND, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS ONLY ONE MOD, MOL TRUSTED US TO WORK WITH THAT MOD UNTIL HE RETURNED. HIS TRUST WAS TOTALLY BETRAYED.

Well, when MOL returned, he immediately abandoned the project.

I think it is great credit to the tolerance of MW forum that any who participated in the abuse that night are even allowed here, now. I would have kicked them out and told them not to let the door hit them in the fanny on their way out.

They totally sabatoged an effort by the administration to improve the community. There were options of discussing it and trying to make it better or trying it and then going back to the old way if it didn't work. Nothing was set in stone. Mol had made it very clear that he was looking for feedback.

I think it is one thing to get into a scrap with other members but when you undermine efforts to improve the community that are for the benefit of all, you don't deserve to be a member.

Shanti
September 19th, 2006, 12:08 PM
I don't know where to find the mittens icon - but pretend you can see them here... ( ). I don't always agree with you Ssanf, but this time I'm with you all the way. You've just wrapped up everything I've been trying to say for several days now - and what was my reward? Someone hacked into my ebay account. Loverly. Very mature. Guard your butt Ssanf, you've just painted a big old target on it.False accusations/insinuations without some some substantial evidence is a crime in itself!!! Slander isn't pretty nor legal. This post is so wrong!!!
Is planting a seed of this type part of the MW respect rules?

Jenne
September 19th, 2006, 12:09 PM
Seems to me that MOL recently did try to set up a system that was intended to be both fair and equal. There was to be a point system so that all infractions could be treated equally. A person would be able to see how many points they had. The consequences of infractions would be clearly spelled out. Additionally, there was to be a place where a person could contest points given and others could also offer insights. There was the opportunity to have the points removed if they had been given in error.

To me this seemed imminently fair and just in its conception and in its goals.

And, what did MOL get for his trouble? Nothing but grief and abuse for even trying. In fact, there was so much abuse going on that he had to stop the effort before it was even 24 hours old. I have never seen posters acting like such a pack of animals in my life. The abuse directed toward the sole moderator who was on duty that night was unconscionable. It was shameful.

So, you know what? After that, I just have no sympathy toward any whines about the justice of moderation around here.

The MW administration went to great efforts to try to find solutions before the recent debacle and got almost no support for their efforts, not even the courtesy of people being willing to give it a fair trial of a week or two, not even a reasonable discussion of how the system could be improved and made workable.

As I recall, some of the people complaining so vituperously, now, were the very same ones who disparaged and undermined an impressive good faith effort to fix the problems. So, if the moderation as is doesn't suit, oh well. Maybe, they should have worked with MOL and helped instead if trashing the effort to make things more fair.

I sure as heck would like to see THEM come up with a fair system. And, you know what, if they did, I bet it wouldn't be much unlike what was recently offered. But, I don't think they really want fairness. If they did, they would have tired to help create a workable system. Nope, I bet they want preference because you can't get that by keeping track with equally applied, predetermined consequenses for behavior and being able to contest unfair moderations like the proposed system would have done. Fairness is objective. Preference is purely subjective. And, they sure as heck had a whole lot of problems with the late attempt to make moderation objective.

And, you know what I think is really unfair? I think it is unfair to roundly abuse the administration and mods when they try to come up with a method to fix the moderation and then turn around and whine that the moderation is no good. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!


:lol: Excuse me? Biting which hand? I'm not being paid to be here, you know. Good one, though. :lol:

As for the aborted point system...it was implemented before it was introduced and bugs had been worked out. I guess you'd rather that whatever goes, goes. Whether we think it unfair or not, you obviously think that's neither here nor there, and treatment of individuals is not to be borne. Just slap them with the consequences and have done with it.

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, in regimes where the little person is disregarded. Where individual thought and fairness count for naught.

The problem with your argument, Ssanf, is that you allow no error of judgment on the part of the adminsistration. And if they are wrong, see the sentence before it. That's lying to yourself, and unrealistic to believe you can build a progressive, cohesive environment in this manner. Which has usually been the goal here, as long as I've been here.

But this community is fast becoming what you and Lun here seem to be rabid for. I hope you're happy with it.

Why you continue to post in this thread, if you're so satisfied with recent status quo, I can only guess at. And it doesn't show either of you to advantage.

nomadicdragon
September 19th, 2006, 12:13 PM
False accusations/insinuations without some some substantial evidence is a crime in itself!!! Slander isn't pretty nor legal. This post is so wrong!!!
Is planting a seed of this type part of the MW respect rules?

I agree. Slander isn't pretty at all.

I'm still waiting for my apology from the discordian that accused me of attacking him in the middle of the night.

Interesting considering I'm in Georgia and he is in the midwest. And I was sleeping when I supposedly attacked him.

Shanti
September 19th, 2006, 12:14 PM
Why you continue to post in this thread, if you're so satisfied with recent status quo, I can only guess at. And it doesn't show either of you to advantage.Continued baiting perhaps?


For example:calling people who posted questions, complaints, to an event a pack of animals, insinuating false accusations to piss people off. Some rules! Some fairness, Some equality in treatment.

Just how blind are people?

SilverClaw
September 19th, 2006, 12:18 PM
I'm still waiting for my apology from the discordian that accused me of attacking him in the middle of the night. And the drama continues..

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 12:19 PM
The problem with your argument, Ssanf, is that you allow no error of judgment on the part of the adminsistration.
I did not have to allow for error on the part of the administration since MOL, himself, allowed for that.

Uh....you know that was why he was asking for feedback and ideas. He directly asked what we thought the appropriate penalties should be for infractions. He asked us to make a list. And, implicit in his whole correspondence was the fact that he was not only willing to listen to but actively seeking input. He did not present it as a done deal by any stretch of the imagination. Rather he presented it as a work in progress that he wanted us, in fact asked us, to make input into.

That is why the abusive response was so far out of line.

Jenne
September 19th, 2006, 12:19 PM
I think MOL was sort of thinking out loud. He actually posted and asked for member help in getting it started. He wanted to know what we thought the consequences should be instead of just telling us, like it or lump it, as he could have.

But, instead of getting the feedback he requested, he was abused in his absence. A sole mod was left to test the system unassisted. This, I think, was due to unanticipated staffing shortage.

Well, the abuse heaped on the mod that night was beyond a doubt the most unfair, disrespectful and abusive bit of posting, that I have ever witnessed.

AND, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS ONLY ONE MOD, MOL TRUSTED US TO WORK WITH THAT MOD UNTIL HE RETURNED. HIS TRUST WAS TOTALLY BETRAYED.

Well, when MOL returned, he immediately abandoned the project.

I think it is great credit to the tolerance of MW forum that any who participated in the abuse that night are even allowed here, now. I would have kicked them out and told them not to let the door hit them in the fanny on their way out.

They totally sabatoged an effort by the administration to improve the community. There were options of discussing it and trying to make it better or trying it and then going back to the old way if it didn't work. Nothing was set in stone. Mol had made it very clear that he was looking for feedback.

I think it is one thing to get into a scrap with other members but when you undermine efforts to improve the community that are for the benefit of all, you don't deserve to be a member.

Oh BAH! "His trust in us was betrayed." Indeed.

People in glass houses, much?

You know Ssanf, when you don't bait and flame, then the garbage above will be credible. As it is, coming from the source it did, I just have to laugh.

The system was doomed from the outset because of poor planning and premature implementation. The resultant reaction by the community was extrapolatable. Imminently so.

I have to disagree with Kay's assessment of who and what and where all this went down. She has her pov from the one side of the wall, I have mine. I don't think the past 4 weeks have been anything but a lesson in how to moderate a diverse and highly intelligent population who already DOES think for itself. You all expect this psychological phenomenon called a "false consensus"...that everyone thinks and behaves as you do.

Thing is, when you're confronted with the actual differences, you handle it ill. And it was handled ill. And when people took umbrage, as I did, we were swept aside. I tried the pm route and got the finger pointed back at me, and no public remonstration other than "you two, quit it," when the other person had cut me pretty deeply.

I don't trust the system now in place. It hides behind barrels of prejudice that look like self-righteous anger. *shrug* I use what venues I have open to me, at the moment. For that, I take my lumps.

Jenne
September 19th, 2006, 12:20 PM
I did not have to allow for error on the part of the administration since MOL, himself, allowed for that.

Uh....you know that was why he was asking for feedback and ideas. He directly asked what we thought the appropriate penalties should be for infractions. He asked us to make a list. And, implicit in his whole correspondence was the fact that he was not only willing to listen to but actively seeking input.


:lol: Yeah...and he was REAL ready for what he got, too.

Come on.

coaxialkettle
September 19th, 2006, 12:22 PM
who took the words out of my mouth...it's the grand t-square in the skies...
the whole world is going bonkers...

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 12:31 PM
So, you don't like what is. You don't like what was offered as an effort to improve it.

So, just what do you suggest? If you think that you can do better at running this board, do enlighten us all how. Inquiring minds want to know.

nomadicdragon
September 19th, 2006, 12:31 PM
And the drama continues..

*smiles*

For me to state a fact is drama??

I think I need to refresh my understanding of what drama is..

My bad.

Lunacie
September 19th, 2006, 12:51 PM
False accusations/insinuations without some some substantial evidence is a crime in itself!!! Slander isn't pretty nor legal. This post is so wrong!!!
Is planting a seed of this type part of the MW respect rules?


I didn't accuse anyone, but even if I had, what makes you so sure that I would falsely accuse someone? What have I done here in the past that makes you think I'm that kind of person?


Respect stops flying when trust has been broken. That's common sense.

Shanti
September 19th, 2006, 01:00 PM
I didn't accuse anyone, but even if I had, what makes you so sure that I would falsely accuse someone? What have I done here in the past that makes you think I'm that kind of person?


Respect stops flying when trust has been broken. That's common sense.
Your in a Discordian thread where the talk turned into the topic of what recently has taken place on MW, etc, etc. Your planting a seed of suspision that not justified, unless you want to provide the proof as publically as your provide the accusation.

1+1=2. Dont play dumb. I know I am not the only one that sees what type of seed you are planting.

This little seed planting, double talking, trying to sugar coat the nasty behavior game is exactly the kind of garbage that has turned MW into what it is today....not pretty. AKA another baiting set up as usual.

Guess I am the present baiteee.

Lunacie
September 19th, 2006, 01:03 PM
Oh yah, I started the whole brouhaha, it's all my fault. I was so sneaky and planted all these little seeds that made others come in here and act like doofuses. I have so much power I scare myself.

(/sarcasm)

Infinite Grey
September 19th, 2006, 01:07 PM
Oh yah, I started the whole brouhaha, it's all my fault. I was so sneaky and planted all these little seeds that made others come in here and act like doofuses. I have so much power I scare myself.

(/sarcasm)


mmmhmmm


I don't know where to find the mittens icon - but pretend you can see them here... ( ). I don't always agree with you Ssanf, but this time I'm with you all the way. You've just wrapped up everything I've been trying to say for several days now - and what was my reward? Someone hacked into my ebay account. Loverly. Very mature. Guard your butt Ssanf, you've just painted a big old target on it.

sure... you're not indirectly accusing aaaaaaaaaaannnnnyone
</sarcasm>

_wedgie_

Athena-Nadine
September 19th, 2006, 01:07 PM
ADMIN MODE

Accusing members of this forum of illegal activities without proof is slanderous (thus illegal) and not allowed. Doing so without naming the accused is innapropriate and against the Respect Rule.

SilverClaw
September 19th, 2006, 01:08 PM
*smiles*

For me to state a fact is drama??

I think I need to refresh my understanding of what drama is..

My bad. No it was the fact you were talking something that was said in a thread that was closed. And it has always been my understanding and seen that anyone who mentions any thing about a closed thread is usuallly spreading or contiuing the drama.

And yes I agree a new definition of what drama is would help clear things for a lot of people in the forum, my self included :) But then again there is always the difference in opinions. Anyways have a good day.

Shanti
September 19th, 2006, 01:09 PM
Oh yah, I started the whole brouhaha, it's all my fault. I was so sneaky and planted all these little seeds that made others come in here and act like doofuses. I have so much power I scare myself.

(/sarcasm)Twisting words? Surprise!!
I didn't say that. I said you are planting this 'accusation' seed. Why even mention your e-bay account here? Why not start a new thread in a different section?

You brought it up (ebay), the way you did it, when you did it and even told Ssanf she is now a target.................. you did it to be malicious period.

Play innocent, I can read. So can others.
Some still need to take off those rose colored glasses.

SilverClaw
September 19th, 2006, 01:10 PM
Ah so my eyes are not deceiving me Athena is a new admin.. :)

Shanti
September 19th, 2006, 01:11 PM
No drama just PO'ed at this lop sided garbage. PO'd means I am gonna stand up and hell yeah I am fighting back. Who isnt when they see unfair garbage being said.

Fighting back isn't drama, its defence.
And I am claiming my right to defend against false accusation and disrespect.

Some one want to take that right away? Go ahead that's the American way today!

Athena-Nadine
September 19th, 2006, 01:17 PM
ADMIN MODE

There have been some good points made and some good conversation on both sides until now. Everyone needs to cool down. If I have to moderate this thread again I will close it.

nomadicdragon
September 19th, 2006, 01:17 PM
No it was the fact you were talking something that was said in a thread that was closed. And it has always been my understanding and seen that anyone who mentions any thing about a closed thread is usuallly spreading or contiuing the drama.

And yes I agree a new definition of what drama is would help clear things for a lot of people in the forum, my self included :) But then again there is always the difference in opinions. Anyways have a good day.

Ahh.. ok. I see what you mean. I agree with you on that definition then.

I only mentioned it because the thread was closed and I didn't see it till a day or two after it was closed. So I never got to respond. I supposed I'm still irritated by it lol. But I'm not a fan of drama unless its on TV, so I apologize.

Twinkle
September 19th, 2006, 01:21 PM
I didn't accuse anyone, but even if I had, what makes you so sure that I would falsely accuse someone? What have I done here in the past that makes you think I'm that kind of person?


Respect stops flying when trust has been broken. That's common sense.


I think that the point trying to be made is that you have no proof who hacked into your account.

It could have been a totally random thing that has nothing to do with the drama going on here.

To plant the seed that someone here did it without proof, imo is only adding fuel to the fire.

SSanf
September 19th, 2006, 01:42 PM
I miss all the fun!

SilverClaw
September 19th, 2006, 02:00 PM
Ahh.. ok. I see what you mean. I agree with you on that definition then.

I only mentioned it because the thread was closed and I didn't see it till a day or two after it was closed. So I never got to respond. I supposed I'm still irritated by it lol. But I'm not a fan of drama unless its on TV, so I apologize.That is ok I can understand about being irritated by things :D

Lunacie
September 19th, 2006, 02:02 PM
I think that the point trying to be made is that you have no proof who hacked into your account.

It could have been a totally random thing that has nothing to do with the drama going on here.

To plant the seed that someone here did it without proof, imo is only adding fuel to the fire.

I believe the admin (waves at Athena-Nadine) has suggested that we drop this topic.

Infinite Grey
September 19th, 2006, 02:05 PM
I believe the admin (waves at Athena-Nadine) has suggested that we drop this topic.

"cool down" was what the admin said... not drop it... everyone is being civil now :cheers:

Kaylara
September 19th, 2006, 02:17 PM
Your in a Discordian thread where the talk turned into the topic of what recently has taken place on MW, etc, etc. Your planting a seed of suspision that not justified, unless you want to provide the proof as publically as your provide the accusation.

1+1=2. Dont play dumb. I know I am not the only one that sees what type of seed you are planting.

This little seed planting, double talking, trying to sugar coat the nasty behavior game is exactly the kind of garbage that has turned MW into what it is today....not pretty. AKA another baiting set up as usual.

Guess I am the present baiteee.

Hi pot, this is kettle. You're black.

coaxialkettle
September 19th, 2006, 02:20 PM
qwizd on a wubba cwutch,how Far is it to the Dawn of Creation??!...

Lunacie
September 19th, 2006, 02:37 PM
"cool down" was what the admin said... not drop it... everyone is being civil now :cheers:

Check post #221 - I'm not allowed to talk about it - or provide proof. And I've been quite civil all along actually. :wave:

Daniel
September 19th, 2006, 03:45 PM
Hi pot, this is kettle. You're black.

Yep.

And this is yet another example of there being two sets of rules in this forum.

Disrespect will get some people banned, and flat-out violations of the law results in a warning for other people.


Daniel,
Just saying.

Kaylara
September 19th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Attacks? Disrespect? I'm stating my opinion on her opinion. One that I feel is warranted and that I can prove if asked. Furthermore, I didn't ban her did I? I didn't even moderate her. Her calling out another member for doing the same thing she's being doing for days wasn't disrespectful, but me pointing it out, apparently is. Whatever.

Daniel
September 19th, 2006, 03:51 PM
Attacks? Disrespect? I'm stating my opinion on her opinion. One that I feel is warranted and that I can prove if asked. Furthermore, I didn't ban her did I? I didn't even moderate her. Her calling out another member for doing the same thing she's being doing for days wasn't disrespectful, but me pointing it out, apparently is. Whatever.

I believe you are misreading my position. Allow me to restate it so that it is clear.

Certain other folks have been banned for what is judged to be disRespect.

Someone broke the law here, but THEY have not been banned.

That's my point.

Edited to add: Well, at least that's what I'm seeing here, anyway.

debnmike
September 19th, 2006, 03:51 PM
Yep.

And this is yet another example of there being two sets of rules in this forum.

Disrespect will get some people banned, and flat-out violations of the law results in a warning for other people.


Daniel,
Just saying.

Shanti hasn't been banned, so what's the point in this, Daniel?

Good grief, people.....let it go. It's over (whatever "it" may be). Either participate in threads or don't. Just let it go. The horse has been dead so long even the flies lost interest.

Daniel
September 19th, 2006, 03:54 PM
I wasn't asking why Shanti wasn't banned.

Am I being misinterpreted on purpose?

nomadicdragon
September 19th, 2006, 03:55 PM
Good grief, people.....let it go. It's over (whatever "it" may be). Either participate in threads or don't. Just let it go. The horse has been dead so long even the flies lost interest.

Even the vultures are moving on to greener pastures.

Twinkle
September 19th, 2006, 03:55 PM
Shanti hasn't been banned, so what's the point in this, Daniel?

Good grief, people.....let it go. It's over (whatever "it" may be). Either participate in threads or don't. Just let it go. The horse has been dead so long even the flies lost interest.

I would agree....but there are still hurt feelings and issues that have not been resolved.

Not talking about it only pushes it under the rug...it will come back up later.

Conversations are good....if the intent is to truly resolve things.

Kaylara
September 19th, 2006, 03:56 PM
I believe you are misreading my position. Allow me to restate it so that it is clear.

Certain other folks have been banned for what is judged to be disRespect.

Someone broke the law here, but THEY have not been banned.

That's my point.

Edited to add: Well, at least that's what I'm seeing here, anyway.

Well, to be entirely honest, a lot of people have broken the rules here, and I haven't said a thing about it, nor have they been moderated or banned. Because I felt it made no real contribution to the discussion. Trying to take the high road and all that jazz. However, I really did feel the need to point out that it wasn't just Lunacie who was doing that. And btw, the admins have been discussing THAT issue and it's being handled.

Twinkle
September 19th, 2006, 03:56 PM
I wasn't asking why Shanti wasn't banned.

Am I being misinterpreted on purpose?


I think you should probably say what you mean. I understand exactly what you're saying...but others can't read into it...nor should you expect them to.

debnmike
September 19th, 2006, 03:56 PM
I wasn't asking why Shanti wasn't banned.

Am I being misinterpreted on purpose?

Oh gawd, it's a conspiracy, Daniel.

C'mon. You specifically quoted Kay with regard to Shanti. There wasn't any misrepresentation other than what you presented.

Daniel
September 19th, 2006, 03:57 PM
Let's try this again.

Some folks who "disRespect" other members have been banned.

Lunacie makes an accusation without proof, which I thought was bad bad bad, and she just gets warned.

There. Does that clear up my issue?

Jenne
September 19th, 2006, 03:57 PM
So, you don't like what is. You don't like what was offered as an effort to improve it.

So, just what do you suggest? If you think that you can do better at running this board, do enlighten us all how. Inquiring minds want to know.

:lol: I've made my suggestions plenty of times.

The first and foremost was 1) hire new admins. 2) give the ones who slaved here alone a break. Indefinite and prolonged. 3) treat the situations with gloved hands, not steel of might.

But, they fall on deaf ears/blind eyes.

Jenne
September 19th, 2006, 03:58 PM
Well, to be entirely honest, a lot of people have broken the rules here, and I haven't said a thing about it, nor have they been moderated or banned. Because I felt it made no real contribution to the discussion. Trying to take the high road and all that jazz. However, I really did feel the need to point out that it wasn't just Lunacie who was doing that. And btw, the admins have been discussing THAT issue and it's being handled.

I've noticed this. And in a way, I'm grateful.

Shanti
September 19th, 2006, 03:59 PM
Attacks? Disrespect? I'm stating my opinion on her opinion. One that I feel is warranted and that I can prove if asked. Furthermore, I didn't ban her did I? I didn't even moderate her. Her calling out another member for doing the same thing she's being doing for days wasn't disrespectful, but me pointing it out, apparently is. Whatever.Excuse me I have NEVER accused any group of people of committing a criminal offence!! Lunacie chose to go that route!
I will defend that particular opinion made of me!

Jenne
September 19th, 2006, 04:00 PM
I would agree....but there are still hurt feelings and issues that have not been resolved.

Not talking about it only pushes it under the rug...it will come back up later.

Conversations are good....if the intent is to truly resolve things.

THANK GOD.

THANK YOU.

Finally...someone who doesn't think lurking in shadows and turning the page will cover the crap on the floor.