Why be a solitary at all?

[Faechylde]

MM!

From what I've heard so far by some, you can't be Wiccan until you are initiated. Well, what about those who want to practice but can't devote the time to a coven? What should they do?

And what about those who don't want to be part of a traditional Wicca coven but more like and Eclectic one. Do you still say that they are not Wiccan?

By saying that there is only one true way, you are acting the way the Christians do by saying there is only one true God and all other religions are wrong. Are you saying all other paths are wrong? I don't think so. So why get so upset about solitaries calling themselves Wiccan? Since you say the things in books are not what is taught in covens, why read at all? Do you as Trad Wiccans read books on Paganism? If your coven has it all, why read anything else?

One more thing...about Gardner...I will be honest and say I don't know much about him...yet...(I am still reading). But I've heard he developed Wicca in the 30's or something (correct me if I'm wrong on that). So I don't understand how Wicca, which he created is the "true" way of Wicca. It didn't exist before him. And if it did, it was in secret, so we don't really know everything that was done three hundred years ago. Unless we are in a coven that has passed down it's secrets. Wouldn't those Witches say that the Gardnerian and other Traditional Wiccans are nottrue Witches? Just a thought. I'm kind of rambling, so forgive me.

BB!

[Myst]

I'm not really sure who you're arguing with here; I don't know anyone who has said you have to be part of a coven to be a Wiccan. There aren't many people who will tell you Wiccans can't be solitaries anyway.

This discussion has been brought up at MW and argued too - you might want to use the search function. There are many who believe you can initiate yourself or be initiated by deity, and therefore don't need to be part of a coven.

I'm really not getting your question here, unless you're getting Wicca confused with Witchcraft? Wicca is a new religion that is constantly developing and has been doing so for the past few decades. How does that show that Gardner didn't have anything to do with making Wicca? There are a few threads around here about the origins of Wicca, so again, use the search function at the top near the right there, and you'll find some info.

I think Danustouch recently explained about Wicca being a path that you create for yourself in a way. That's an important thing to keep in mind.

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by Myst
I'm not really sure who you're arguing with here; I don't know anyone who has said you have to be part of a coven to be a Wiccan. There aren't many people who will tell you Wiccans can't be solitaries anyway.

This discussion has been brought up at MW and argued too - you might want to use the search function. There are many who believe you can initiate yourself or be initiated by deity, and therefore don't need to be part of a coven.

I'm really not getting your question here, unless you're getting Wicca confused with Witchcraft? Wicca is a new religion that is constantly developing and has been doing so for the past few decades. How does that show that Gardner didn't have anything to do with making Wicca? There are a few threads around here about the origins of Wicca, so again, use the search function at the top near the right there, and you'll find some info.

I think Danustouch recently explained about Wicca being a path that you create for yourself in a way. That's an important thing to keep in mind.



What I was saying with this is that people are saying that unless you start in a coven and are initiated, you can't call yourself Wiccan, in their opinion. They say you're a phoney if you do otherwise. They don't argue that you can go to be a solitary afterwards though, since your "training" was within a coven environment.

As for getting Wicca confused iwht Witchcraft, I might be. I am still learning and trying to discern all the history and everything. I'll check out the threads...

Danustouch did say that. And I just think that with some Traditionalists you just can't win, unless it is their way. I could say what Danustouch said and they'd say that if it is a path you created, it isn't "Wicca." Which, for some reason I just can't seem to grasp. Hmmm...maybei's that rebel in me...who knows.

:boing:

BB!

[Myst]

This is a great article on Wicca vs Witchcraft as well - http://www.mothersmagic.net/witches/wicca/whatis.html

hehe when someone tries to tell me I have to practice this way or not practice that way I just shrug them off and move on. Can't please everyone, and as long as you're pleasing yourself it's all good right :D

[seawitch]

i think the issue is not so much coven, verses solitary.

but rather about fellowship. haveing others who feel as you do. and are like you.
my daughter just found another pagan girl at school.
it thrilled her to no end, that she wasn't the only daughter of a witch.:p
i practice alone for almost everything. and have for years. i preffer it that way.
but i have been in the past 3 years joining others for pipe ceremonies, talking circles.and last year for samhain.
we have become close friends. it's nice. a couple times a year.
and to have friends that can help you in your magic, and with energy, power and their own wisdom:sunny:

now that i think about it, i am sure thats how covens came to be. women and men. helping each other, in magic and in life. sounds like a great thing

[Nina]

...and I feel no need to be a member of a coven. I am a witch, leaning heavily on Wiccan principles, and I don't feel a need to be initiated into any particular tradition. My relationship with the Gods is just that - MY relationship, and I follow my heart in this matter!

Saying that I do network - for example, I come here, and I have a close friend who is pagan, although we rarely work together (we get together for those essential mundane girly chats!).

I follow my own course of studies, which obviously aren't as structured as those a coven would take, but it's always what I feel I need to know, or something I want to know.

I'm also not the best judge of character in the world - my love-life in the past can attest to that! - and I don't want to get involved with a group of people I don't necessarily know very well.

Plus, I'm 31, and I'm past the stage of desperately longing to 'belong' - which was my major cause of angst in my teenage years!

I write my own rituals, I perform my own spell-work, and I even have a few of my very own sacred days to celebrate. It works for me, and that's one of the reasons I found this path. Or rather, it found me...!

[Faechylde]

Originally posted by Nina
...and I feel no need to be a member of a coven. I am a witch, leaning heavily on Wiccan principles, and I don't feel a need to be initiated into any particular tradition. My relationship with the Gods is just that - MY relationship, and I follow my heart in this matter!

Saying that I do network - for example, I come here, and I have a close friend who is pagan, although we rarely work together (we get together for those essential mundane girly chats!).

I follow my own course of studies, which obviously aren't as structured as those a coven would take, but it's always what I feel I need to know, or something I want to know.

I'm also not the best judge of character in the world - my love-life in the past can attest to that! - and I don't want to get involved with a group of people I don't necessarily know very well.

Plus, I'm 31, and I'm past the stage of desperately longing to 'belong' - which was my major cause of angst in my teenage years!

I write my own rituals, I perform my own spell-work, and I even have a few of my very own sacred days to celebrate. It works for me, and that's one of the reasons I found this path. Or rather, it found me...!


Hi Nina! You have no idea how much itmeant to read your post. That is how I felt at the beginning. I as okay with reading books and interpreting what I wanted from them, and then I started to network because I did have questions about circle casting and other things of that nature. But then I was told that a solitary is not really Wiccan, even if they blieve in the principles. But you summedit up so well. Thank you.

BB!

[Nina]

Glad I could put your mind at rest.

In my very humble opinion, anyone who tells you that you are 'doing it wrong' or 'you have to do THIS to be a true Wiccan/Witch/Pagan' hasn't got a clue.

We are all individuals, and we have individual needs. The Gods understand this - in my view, that's why there are so many aspects of Deity to work with!

Listen to your heart, and go with what feels right for you. If you find that you really do want to work in a circle, or go the whole hog and find a coven, then that's great! But even in the midst of a coven, there will always be a personal relationship with your Gods/Goddesses and personal magicks you need to perform in a solitary manner. So even High Priestesses of long established covens have a solitary practice. It's not inferior - some sort of solitary practice is ESSENTIAL! Even just opening the curtains in the morning to greet the sun (or in my case, to greet another grey cloudy day, this morning!!) is a personal, and powerful practice. Wicca is not a fully structured religion... if it was, I wouldn't feel so comfortable leaning on it quite so heavily!

It's very difficult when you are starting out to seperate the knowledgable people from those who know little, but talk lots about it. You'll soon develop your very own 'junk-detector', which will send little alarm bells off in your head when someone starts lecturing you with dodgy information.

My general reaction to anyone who tells me what to do is to smile sweetly and say "That's your opinion, and I thank you for sharing it with me. Now wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same?" and quietly fade away. Irritates the hell out of them...and leaves them lost for words!

Good luck, and may you be blessed on your path! Keep asking those questions, and there are lots of friendly folk here who will support you!

[Eeluna]

There are people who honestly believe that you can't be a Wiccan unless you are initiated into a coven with direct lineage to Gerald Gardner. It's the word--"Wicca" or "Wiccan". They seem to think or feel they have exclusive rights to it, like a trademark.

You know the toy most people just call a frisbee. Well there may be many different companies that make the same toy, but only the one company is legally allowed to call it a "Frisbee". All the others call it a flying disc or something similar. There are other things like that. I think "Windbreaker" is also a trademark, but you know I call every jacket of that sort a windbreaker.

So my point is the Traditionalists get all worked up over the word
"Wicca". Our personal philosophy may be almost identical to theirs, but unless we fit the particular criteria for their idea of Wicca, they don't want us calling ourselves Wiccan. They want the exclusive rights to that word.

Do they have that right? I can't honestly say. Maybe they do, and maybe the concept has outgrown its beginnings and become much larger than such a narrow definition.

This is just my musings on the whole thing. I feel it's best to avoid the argument, so I call myself a Pagan. I am Solitary, Eclectic and Self-dedicated (you notice I used the word "dedicated" instead of "initiated" because that is another word that can cause a lot problems).

Some people avoid the issue by calling themselves a "Witch", but that word has such a long history of negative connatations that it can cause a lot of trouble with regular people who are ignorant about our spirituality. Usually it's just easier to refer to yourself as Wiccan when speaking with them.

Nina has given some wise advice, and I'll repeat--Just follow your heart and don't worry about what other people think.

[seawitch]

ya know Eeluna, i was just thinking about this subject yesterday. through the years i have called my self witch , pagan, goddess worshipper and what not.
so for years i called myself pagan to the mundane folk. they still freaked out a bit but less. but now i have come to a time in my life that i don't care what they think, and just call myself what i am a witch! and if they can't handle it well it is their problem and not mine people are shallow, and sheep some don't know that there is more than one way to diety. and we must all be able to choose our own paths. with out predguice(sp)
ignore the people who criticize you and follow your own heart.

i think if the word witch is used more than people will become more accepting. they won't have a choice now will they.
p.s. hope this made sence i am still kind of sleepy

[Myst]

If you're not a Witch don't call yourself one, either way.

I still hold onto the belief that you use the label that fits what you feel you are, not whatever you think will make others happy.

[Eeluna]

I wholeheartedly agree that we should always be true to ourselves, but what we know in our hearts to be true may not be the wisest thing to shout out to the world. Some people are in circumstances where it would cause more harm than good for them to totally honest with everyone they meet. Others are not bold enough to be so open.

I live in a conservative, rural area. Most people around here consider Witches to be agents of the devil. Very few people know that I am a Pagan. I avoid using the term 'Witch' to describe myself because it is so inflamatory and misunderstood. I wish that I could be totally open, but I know it would cause major problems. I greatly admire those who are strong enough to fight that fight. Perhaps someday I can join their ranks, but for now I choose the safer route. Just call me a mouse.

[Myst]

Yes but the discussion was not so much what to call yourself around non believers but what you are and what other believers think of it.