Other peoples' spells

[Sage Rainsong]

Hi everyone. I have been thinking about spell books and differing opinions on using spells from other authors. Some people have said that they don't feel that performing spells straight from a book is effective at all. Some say that writing your own spells are preferable but not necessary. Others feel that since magic is all about intention, the source of spell doesn't matter. So what do you think? Please explain your position.

[Aleannah]

I have found that the source of the spell isn't important...it's the intention behind the spell. Besides, if something in the spell doesn't work for you, you change it anyway, so then it becomes your own. :weirdsmil

[TseMoana]

I feel that when you create a spell, you put your energy, your focus in it. When you just recite someone else's spell, it contains less of your own energy which, to me will render it less effective. It does not make it completely useless as the person who originally created it put their energy in so the spell is energised and focused, just not with your own energy.

Although I believe you can remedy this by editing the spell or meditate on it some more or stuff like that.

[David19]

I voted for the 2nd one, that they can work but your own may be better 'cause you know your need and desire better than anyone else, but i think spells from other sources can and do work (whether they're from a book (fiction or non-fiction), TV programme, movie, whatever).

[TheWomanMonster]

My opinion:
Spells of others can certainly be used, as always intent is KEY.
(but you knew someone was going to say that)
I prefer to write/create my own spells dependant on what I wish to achieve.
That way I can adjust and change things as need be.
I haven't done too much spellwork myself, but have found that so far I tend to make my own alterations to 'book' spells anyways.
Don't know why I think this way, it just kind of happened.

Monster.

[Shanti]

For me, my own words contain my passions, the fuel for the spell.
The mere writing and creating of the words in itself is a spell so the process alone I take with sincerity. So I always create my own and never repeat old ones. New spell, new passion, new creation, for ever thing.

[Semjaza]

I don't think it matters too much. I used to think that you should only use spells that you've written yourself, but then I thought more about it. Take Cunning Folk for example: They used spells and other information that they obtained from grimoires, but they also had their own techniques and ways of doing things. What about ceremonial magicians working from grimoires, or anyone else working from traditional sources? There are plenty of examples of people using other people's spells. Sometimes you can use a spell as it is, sometimes you have to make adjustments. I definately recommend writing your own spells, and researching well any other spell you come across. As mentioned by others, its the intent that matters. I just happen to like the 'tried and true' methods, 'cause if it ain't broke... :)

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

[PoisonIvy]

I think that anyone can read and preform a spell out of a book but that don't mean that it's gonna work.
By comming up with your own words and preforming your own ritual,you've made it unique and special....your own. I think that the more energies you put into it(and you're not by just reading words from a book) the more the Universe,Sacred Spirit,God/Goddess or whatever will appreciate it more and be more apt to listen. JMHO
Your heart and soul should be in every spell!

Blessings to you.

[Renny]

When I use ones from books I always customise them to make them my own, or just loosely base mine off of theirs.

[Mouse]

Unlike most Witches and magickans I don't believe that intent is a huge part. Just because you want to light a fire doesn't make it happen if don't have any matches. Yes you need to be clear in your intent that you want to start the fire here instead of china... but you know what they say.. If wishes were fishes we'd never want for a feed.
But I do believe it is better to write your own spells because I feel that if you can't write the spell yourself then you shouldn't be useing magick in the first place. The other more important reason is that some herbs/stones/colours etc work better for different people and a spell is more effective when things powerful to the individual magickan are used, and a spell is more likely to have those specific ingredience if the person crafts it themselves.

[RainInanna]

I think it depends on the circumstances, and paradigm you're using.

1. The benefit of using existing spells is the shared correspondences and belief. For example, as in ancient magic in grimoires, the focus was on performing spells to the letter to tap into already established magical connections. If you use correspondences already deep in the collective unconscious you are using circuits that have already grown strong from repetitive use and experience. A modern example of such a correspondence is valentine hearts for love - so well ingrained in most of our psyches is this connection, the correspondence is strong and deep in our minds. Further, if you are working with angels, demons, etc. you want to use a correspondence They are familiar with and may have themselves given for using to contact them. In that case the correspondence is less *your* connection and more Theirs.

2. The benefit of creating your own spells is tailoring your correspondences specifically to YOUR intentions. When already existing connections conflict with your own - for example you hate valentine's day due to a bad breakup 6 years ago - you can't use the tried and true connection. To do so is to distract your energy from your purpose - instead of directing energy totally towards love, you'll let some of it leak away to your bad memories.

Using existing spells can only work when you can really, truly implement the correspondences used. Usually in high magic one is intentionally putting all their belief in existing correspondences after extensive cleansing etc. In low magic there is often more room for injecting your own personal correspondences.

[SpiritualWitch]

I have found that the source of the spell isn't important...it's the intention behind the spell. Besides, if something in the spell doesn't work for you, you change it anyway, so then it becomes your own. :weirdsmil

I agree :-D I have only written one entire spell on my own so far and feel wonderful about it. But I personally do not mind using other people's spells. If I need to change something about it I do.

[Astara Seague]

of course you can use them...
personally I like to write my own

[Meadhbh]

I'll be the one to take the unpoplar view here. I was taught that is not a good ideal to write your own. The better way is to stick with something that has worked for a long time and thus does not need improvement on it. Beisdes the spell its self must be worked exactly as written with no changes to it at all. Because then it may not work if something is off. If its not broke don't fix it.

[Sage Rainsong]

I'll be the one to take the unpoplar view here. I was taught that is not a good ideal to write your own. The better way is to stick with something that has worked for a long time and thus does not need improvement on it. Beisdes the spell its self must be worked exactly as written with no changes to it at all. Because then it may not work if something is off. If its not broke don't fix it.

That is an interesting view. I am not trying to question or disrespect your view but I can't help but think; someone had to come up with the spell in the first place. Why is an old spell more valid?

[misty]

I have written my own and used some from books. I find that they work the same. I am of the opinion that it's the intent that matters most.

[David19]

That is an interesting view. I am not trying to question or disrespect your view but I can't help but think; someone had to come up with the spell in the first place. Why is an old spell more valid?

I'm not an expert on spells (or anything Occult really), i'm still in the beginner stages, but i think maybe the spells may have been refined over the years, so that it does work, and you'll know it works (like, say, you take a spell out of a Grimoire from hundreds of years ago, you might have the added benefit of thousands of other mages/sorcerors/adapts/whatever refining them to the point where it's detailed, draws on the right correspondances (e.g. if it's a wealth spell, it may be done under Jupiter's influence or something (i think Jupiter is for wealth, right?) or Pluto's (again, is that for wealth?), and you may have the herbs that people have found worked, etc).

But, i do think sometimes, it's good to make your own spells, if you can't find one that suits your needs (e.g. if you wanted a spell for love but all the others focused on bring a girl to you, you'd probably want to create one yourself to bring a guy to you, etc).

I think it's a matter of balance and being educated about knowing which spells to use from other sources and when to create your own.

Hope that made some sense :).

[David19]

I don't think it matters too much. I used to think that you should only use spells that you've written yourself, but then I thought more about it. Take Cunning Folk for example: They used spells and other information that they obtained from grimoires, but they also had their own techniques and ways of doing things. What about ceremonial magicians working from grimoires, or anyone else working from traditional sources? There are plenty of examples of people using other people's spells. Sometimes you can use a spell as it is, sometimes you have to make adjustments. I definately recommend writing your own spells, and researching well any other spell you come across. As mentioned by others, its the intent that matters. I just happen to like the 'tried and true' methods, 'cause if it ain't broke... :)

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

I have to say i agree with you a lot :).

[Tanya]

I write my own, go with my husband's or glean them from here and there(often non-magical sources like books of poetry and songs). The criteria they must meet is simple... 'do they move the Godess in me?"

[Windsmith]

maybe the spells may have been refined over the years, so that it does work, and you'll know it works (like, say, you take a spell out of a Grimoire from hundreds of years ago, you might have the added benefit of thousands of other mages/sorcerors/adapts/whatever refining them to the point where it's detailed, draws on the right correspondances (e.g. if it's a wealth spell, it may be done under Jupiter's influence or something (i think Jupiter is for wealth, right?) or Pluto's (again, is that for wealth?), and you may have the herbs that people have found worked, etc).OK, to play devil's advocate here: why is it OK for those other mages/sorcerors/adepts/whatevers over the years to have "refined" the spell, but you have to follow it to the letter? If you find a further refinement that improves the spell, can you not add it? The Ancestors weren't wiser than we are just because they came before us. They were wise because they had the study and the experience. Most of us have a danged long way to go to reach their level, but if any of us do, I see no reason why we can't add our wisdom to theirs, rather than just mimicking everything they did because they did it.

That's why I voted for Option 2. If I find a spell written by someone else with a higher level of knowledge than mine, that fulfills my need and resonates for me, well then...no need to reinvent the wheel, right? As long as I've studied it and understand its basic principals, and I'm not just grabbing the first spell from a book that "looks about right," then I have taken that spell into me and, to an extent, made it mine. On top of which I almost always end up altering the spoken parts anyway, because most of what I find drives me up a wall.

But if I can find no appropriate spell, or what I need is so personal to me that I know I need to do the legwork myself, I will absolutely start from scratch. And those usually work better, because my magic works better when it has a specific goal: a spell for "that editor to look at this piece as fairly as possible" will always have better results for me than a spell for "success in my writing," because that's too diffuse a goal for the energies to focus on.

[MankyCat]

I write my own. Always have. I might look at what others have written or done for inspiration or insight, but that's about it.

Only I know what I want (though some can argue that no one ever really knows what they want *grin*), only I know what I have done or will do to get it done, and only I know what really seems to work best for me. So what if I might accidently use something that has a common use for the purpose of my working. I know how it relates to me.

Clove reminds me of love... so I used it for love type spells (not love spells per se). Later I realized that's one of it's common traits.

It's that way with most things. I know what works well for me. I know my associations to things. Someone else might have a different association. What's clove to me might be vanilla or cinnamon or rose scent to another.

I don't like limitting myself to the constraints of others, especially my workings. If I did, I'd be part of a tradition that imposes such. Plus, I've always been of the mindset that someone had to have started things at some point. Knowledge gained through experience, trial and error, and so forth.

With that said, I should say that I do feel a strong sense of respect to those who do follow things to a tee if they feel that's what's best.

[Meadhbh]

That is an interesting view. I am not trying to question or disrespect your view but I can't help but think; someone had to come up with the spell in the first place. Why is an old spell more valid?

You have a good point. Yes, some had to come up with the spell ti begin with, and although no one as ever come right and said this to me. The ideal is that its worked well for so long that there really isn't a need to improve on it to much. I'm sure they have been changed some what due to the passage of time but the ideal is to preserve it in its original form for as long as possible.

[MankyCat]

You have a good point. Yes, some had to come up with the spell ti begin with, and although no one as ever come right and said this to me. The ideal is that its worked well for so long that there really isn't a need to improve on it to much. I'm sure they have been changed some what due to the passage of time but the ideal is to preserve it in its original form for as long as possible.


Now the problem is that the same "it worked so well for so long" doesn't fit many spells found in modern books. I've seen many that made me scoff.

[Meadhbh]

So have I. Thats one of the reasons I really even look at books that are written about newer systems. But if you wanted to use one I admit a certain degree of fine tuning would be needed if for no other reason than it won't work as is. I'll never get over the Merlin invented runes things I saw in book. The sad thing is people read things like that and knowing no better believe things like that.

[MankyCat]

So have I. Thats one of the reasons I really even look at books that are written about newer systems. But if you wanted to use one I admit a certain degree of fine tuning would be needed if for no other reason than it won't work as is. I'll never get over the Merlin invented runes things I saw in book. The sad thing is people read things like that and knowing no better believe things like that.


Same. I haven't bought a magic related book in years. My mother got me a couple, one that actually did catch my interest, a couple years back, but most of the modern stuff just seem like jokes to me.

There was one that left such a bad taste in my mouth, I had to force myself to finish read, and very nearly threw away the book immediately after I did. (Who would want it with all my notes in the margins and obvious disgust?) I felt like it only left a pile of garbage and sapped away the time I could have used on reading something more factual... from the fiction aisle of the bookstore!

But I will say... I did find some astrology books that were pretty good and gemstone books and that 5000 spell book (inspiration use, and the cute little blurbs on things they toss in here and there). Seems all that catches my interest anymore are books for reference purposes.

[Sage Rainsong]

So have I. Thats one of the reasons I really even look at books that are written about newer systems. But if you wanted to use one I admit a certain degree of fine tuning would be needed if for no other reason than it won't work as is. I'll never get over the Merlin invented runes things I saw in book. The sad thing is people read things like that and knowing no better believe things like that

Merlin inventing the runes huh? Now that is hilarious and infuriating at the same time. I do think that it is only fair to say that not all books are like that. Some of the newer books are well researched and put together. Many of the spells and rituals that the author makes use well researched correspondents. While I do not discount old, pre-written spells, I think that people should create their own sometimes. If no one wrote a new spell that means that the only spells that are worth doing were invented years ago. I find that a little sad.


But if you wanted to use one I admit a certain degree of fine tuning would be needed if for no other reason than it won't work as is.

Not to be rude but, why wouldn't it work? What sort of "fine tuning" does one need to do in order for the spell? Do you mean go along with more traditional correspondents?

[MankyCat]

Not to be rude but, why wouldn't it work? What sort of "fine tuning" does one need to do in order for the spell? Do you mean go along with more traditional correspondents?


Perhaps to make it fit the intention or the individual better?

[Meadhbh]

Not to be rude but, why wouldn't it work? What sort of "fine tuning" does one need to do in order for the spell? Do you mean go along with more traditional correspondents?

First off your right not all books are that way. I was just it as an example of something that annoyed me. I'm sure that there are plenty book out there that work well of various reasons. I do mean that and just because a spell is old doesn't mean it works either. If there is a way to allow it to work within a way I'm comfortable with then I'll do it. It makes things so much easier when you believe it will work, after all.

[9-2-2]

If your will is more enlivened by what's in a book than by whatever you make, then do what empowers you. Plenty of people have written some dry-ass rituals that looked worse - and had worse results - than even the most chewed-up and regurgitated new age crap.

Seriously, you shouldn't totally discount books; they bring knowledge, but can easily turn into traps of complacency.

[MankyCat]

If your will is more enlivened by what's in a book than by whatever you make, then do what empowers you. Plenty of people have written some dry-ass rituals that looked worse - and had worse results - than even the most chewed-up and regurgitated new age crap.

Seriously, you shouldn't totally discount books; they bring knowledge, but can easily turn into traps of complacency.


I don't discount them, per se. I just have a tough time finding ones that tell me more than the basic stuff and more spells on things I don't needs spells for.

There are a few out there I would highly recommend, including fictional pieces. There is much knowledge and many lessons in these books that people tend to disregard simply because it's a fictional story. (And I'm not necessarily talking about the commonly known books like "Mists of Avalon".)

[Lunar Raven]

I believe intent and true desire is what matters most in magic. The words just help you focus. Of course, if you write the spell on your own, you will probably be better focused and emotional driven, therefore your spell may work better if you write it yourself. Like I said though, I think intent is the number one factor.

[Teresa]

IMO it is your intention and the confidence that you have in the spell working that plays a huge part in the success. If you doubt it will work that sends out negative vibes which can defuse any power raised for a successful spell. Just my 2 cents.

[BlueWaves]

imo, and in my observations....

a spell is a spell is a spell. to focus one's energy...to focus your will, is to create. to bring from your soul, to intertwine it with the waves of creation to bring forth your creation, that...is how its done. If you use a "artifact" or some object to do this, make sure the object has some meaning to you, the more meaning the better. But the wrote? Meh, it could be centuries old, or seconds new, as long as the focus and the will is there, I'd recommend using it.

[Mesektet]

I have never experienced a difference in whether or not the said spell is "yours"...

[ModernKnight]

In my opinion, what matters isn't who wrote the spell, but rather how well written it is. Intent is not the only factor that will determine how well a spell will work, but also what you're drawing on to do it. Whether it's traditional correspondences, runes, mystic shapes, words, gods, there are ways of doing things that work better than others. The trick is learning which ways work best. The advantage of pre-written spells is that you get to take advantage of someone else's study. The disadvantage of pre-written spells is that their study may not have been particularly good. There's a lot of drivel out there.

[Shadow Dreamer]

I think that we are unique, just like everyone else is unique. Each spell is going to have a different effect, regardless of whomever wrote it originally....think about this: Have 10 people write a spell to do the same thing. Give 5 of those spells to 5 differnt people and keep 5 with their original authors. Have all 15 people recite the spell...I am willing to be that no 2 people get the same results.

~SD

[MerryBe]

I voted "you can use anothers' spell, but your own is better"...

I see others' spell's all the time. I have had many share their spells with me. But, I feel that what their spell consists of, may not be exactly what I want to attain. My own feelings may differ, so, in essence, I find my own are much more effective. In the case of those which were passed down to me, I add my own touch, either with words or herbs, anything that I find "fits" just right. Intent is necessary, but so is one's true feelings and the energy those feelings put out are just as important.

Just my 2cents worth,
Merry

[covenofkeys]

your own spells are the best ones to use, i think, although i have used spells that others have designed. i think it comes down to individual choice too, but i do think that youre own spells can have more effect than say a spell you have aquired through somebody else.
to each their own.

[Rananeida]

Interesting thread! I wasn't aware there are such different opinions on spells and their origins. :)

I tend to find the old true and tested "hand-me-downs" to work better than newer things. With a couple of very powerful exceptions, most of the newer spells I've seen show their lack already on paper.

Very few of the spells I have been taught have ever been written down, I might add. They're almost exlusively taught in person, because there is often both vocals and gestures/body movements involved which can't be taught or learned via writings. I'm sure they mutate slightly for each trade and adjust themselves to the new keeper in various ways, but never in any ways that affect their purpose, that I have noticed.

[lightdragon]

I usually look at pre-written spells and modify them to my own needs. This is the type that works best for me. Writing my own spells or doing a spell to the letter is secondary for me.:spaceman:

[~Owl~]

Just thought I'd cut in line here and add my own opinion to this, even though I may be saying the same thing someone else did here, since I didn't read through everyone's posts, something I usually ALWAYS do...If so, my sincere apologies. As well as I was told my font was so small no one could readit the last time. Therefore I moved it up one. If this is too large, (to me,it's HUGE) then please let me know, and I'll change it back....

My view is that your own spells DO work better, as long as you place the right amount of energy and intent into them. This is extremely important in my opinion.

However: on the other hand, when you use someone else's spells, for one, the BELIEF is there that it must be an ancient powerful spell, and therefore, you are feeding it even MORE power through your belief and intent.

Also, some of these spells ARE quite ancient and powerful. Why? When you use another's spell, for example,say from centuries back, SOMEBODY had to have created it in the first place, as well as every spell known to humankind. Therefore it was used for the first time- by someone.

Now: pehaps decades, to centuries later, people like us, have tapped into that power, the same power that the person before had used. And the person before that. And so on...all the way back to....????

And now YOU are tapping into that same power, that so many others had put their energies into. Do you see where I'm going? Therefore, in this case, I very much believe that particular spell was indeed VERY powerful indeed. But-because of the reasons that I have explained.

Just as I believe if you feel, TRULY feel, that the spell YOU created as a person of magical talent, will work just as well, which it is capable of,
(I have done it myself, with some rather outstanding results) it shall, indeed.

Blessings,

~SilverFeather the Owl~

[Teresa]

Just thought I'd cut in line here and add my own opinion to this, even though I may be saying the same thing someone else did here, since I didn't read through everyone's posts, something I usually ALWAYS do...If so, my sincere apologies. As well as I was told my font was so small no one could readit the last time. Therefore I moved it up one. If this is too large, (to me,it's HUGE) then please let me know, and I'll change it back....

My view is that your own spells DO work better, as long as you place the right amount of energy and intent into them. This is extremely important in my opinion.

However: on the other hand, when you use someone else's spells, for one, the BELIEF is there that it must be an ancient powerful spell, and therefore, you are feeding it even MORE power through your belief and intent.

Also, some of these spells ARE quite ancient and powerful. Why? When you use another's spell, for example,say from centuries back, SOMEBODY had to have created it in the first place, as well as every spell known to humankind. Therefore it was used for the first time- by someone.

Now: pehaps decades, to centuries later, people like us, have tapped into that power, the same power that the person before had used. And the person before that. And so on...all the way back to....????

And now YOU are tapping into that same power, that so many others had put their energies into. Do you see where I'm going? Therefore, in this case, I very much believe that particular spell was indeed VERY powerful indeed. But-because of the reasons that I have explained.

Just as I believe if you feel, TRULY feel, that the spell YOU created as a person of magical talent, will work just as well, which it is capable of,
(I have done it myself, with some rather outstanding results) it shall, indeed.

Blessings,

~SilverFeather the Owl~

Awesome explanation ! The font is great for me, I can finally read what you are posting. :) :cheers:

[WiccanGoddess]

As I found out yesterday with a 'truth and honesty spell'...it's far better to use your own.

[~Owl~]

Awesome explanation ! The font is great for me, I can finally read what you are posting. :) :cheers:

Thanks, hon.

It's something that I thought of intuitively actually, a few years back...

[RavenStars]

I don't discount them, per se. I just have a tough time finding ones that tell me more than the basic stuff and more spells on things I don't needs spells for.

There are a few out there I would highly recommend, including fictional pieces. There is much knowledge and many lessons in these books that people tend to disregard simply because it's a fictional story. (And I'm not necessarily talking about the commonly known books like "Mists of Avalon".)

Could you give us a list of these books? I'm especially interested in the fiction. Thanks!

[MankyCat]

Could you give us a list of these books? I'm especially interested in the fiction. Thanks!

Sure. :)

I'll try to gather a list up this weekend. I have to dig my brain a little, though two come to mind, I need to find the title again. I'll mostly be going off of memory because my books are still packed up. Either I'm PM the list or post it or both.

[exodustruth]

IMO the more energy you put into a magical working the better your chances of success. All magic is imo is the conscious channeling and direction of energy with a specific intent. Whether the energy is channelled and directed by means of ritual or by another method is un-important.....It's the thought that counts :p Not to say you can't get results with someone elses spell..but you'd be better off using your own in the long run...

[noxtwice]

Hi everyone. I have been thinking about spell books and differing opinions on using spells from other authors. Some people have said that they don't feel that performing spells straight from a book is effective at all. Some say that writing your own spells are preferable but not necessary. Others feel that since magic is all about intention, the source of spell doesn't matter. So what do you think? Please explain your position.

I don't see a problem with using someone else's spells... i started out that way, (and many others have as well), until i became more familiar and comfortable with spell writing. today i write my own spells but sometimes i stumble across one here or there i find very interesting and either copy it, adapt it, or simply am inspired by it.

imo the overall "rule" is if the spell feels right to you, and you at least have an understanding of it, then what difference would it make where it originated from? otherwise many of us would not buy spell books or perform well known rituals verbatim, such as the drawing down the moon or any other "well known" piece, or hope to pass our BOS's down to our children or share them with our Coveners (for those of us with children and/or covens).