Polygamy and Paganism?

[David19]

I was just wondering, do you think Pagan religions are more accepting of polygamy than other religions, for example, i was reading some of Isaac Bonewits articles, and i came across this one (http://www.neopagan.net/PaganPolyamory.html) on polygamy and he says:


My commitment to polyamory, a “lovestyle” of intimate relationships with more than one other person at a time, is tied closely to my polytheism and vice versa. While not strictly necessary, Neopagan beliefs are certainly more accepting of polyamory than those of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam (the latter allows a man to have several wives but not vice versa and is horrifically sexist).

And, i was just wondering, do you think Paganism is more accepting of polygamy and if so, why do you think that is?, also are there any polygamyist's(sp? i've got no idea if that's an actual word or if i've just made it up) here and what have your experiences been like, have you felt comfortable or have you been verbally (and/or physically?) attacked for your lifestyle.

I've also read this article (http://www.cauldronfarm.com/writing/polyletter.html) by Raven Kaldera (http://www.cauldronfarm.com/), a Northern Tradition shaman (he's got some great articles and his books seem cool and i've heard a lot of great things about him), and he talks about how some pagans responded negativly to a part of his book 'Handfastings and Wedding Rituals', about polygamy (i've read a part of his book, and it seems really cool, i'm not sure if i'd ever need it for myself, but he's got a lot of great wedding rituals and handfastings for different people (from polygamy, to monogamy, Heathen, Hellenic, Otherkin, BDSM (i think), LGBT, etc)).

Raven said this in the article:


Why did we win? By being inclusive, we got the sheer numbers to do so. We cannot convert most of the enemy....but we can outnumber them by gaining like-minded allies. By like-minded, I mean groups who are also pro-diversity, and who do not make rules about who their allied groups can have as members. Because that's one of the deepest tenets of Paganism.....that diversity is sacred, a truth that we can see reflected in Nature. By gaining allies who believe similarly, we gain the numbers to win. By not sacrificing our more controversial members, we show those allies - and the Gods who watch us and our cause - that we are not merely paying lip service to that ideal.

He's basically saying to accept Pagan polygamy people, and help fight fundamentalism, i'd agree with him about that, but i was wondering what your thoughts are, do you think it has a place in paganism or not (i've heard that in some ancient 'pagan' religions, monogamy was normal, and one of the reasons why Christians became monogamous(sp?) was to help win more acceptance, i think).

Anyway, what are your thoughts?, whether you're a polygamist, or not.

Thanks for any answers you can give me :).

[demonique]

To be honest, I don't believe that one's religious affiliation NEEDS to have a close, intimate tie with one's sexual habits. It can, I suppose, but on the other hand, I don't see how my relationship with the divine has anything to do with who I'm in love with or who I have sex with. But then, I don't believe, necessarily, that one's religion NEEDS to be a basis of moral instruction, either.

That aside, I have no problems with polygamous relationships, aside from the mess it would cause to make it legalized (imagine the tax nightmare that would be!). I don't think it "has a place in paganism" exactly - your paganism is not my paganism, and neither of us share that person over there's paganism. One's personal moral standards are not everyone's, and I accept that. There are a great many liberal, diversity-seeking people who don't find the idea of being in an open or polygamous relationship at all okay. I don't faul them for it - it's certainly not a lifestyle everyone could partake of. I don't know myself whether I could bear to be in such a relationship, but I give my support to those who want to.

That said, I believe that we see more acceptance in our paths simply because we tend to hold up an ideal of tolerance and respect for people who wish to hold views different than our own.

[cheddarsox]

My feelings echo much of what the previous poster said.

Here's how I see it.

Most of us will have more than one lover in our lives.

Most of us cannot or are not interested in the effort and energy it takes to keep more than one significant sexual relationship going at a time. Often even one is a stretch.

If you mean polygamy as having more than one sexual partner. It's already happening, albeit, we usually turn our heads away and don't openly "approve" if, but we have scads of ways in which it is tacitly institutionalized.

If you mean polygamy as in actually making a life commitment to more than one spouse...I don't see it ever becoming a cultural norm. I don't think any large chunk of society wants that. Most of us have a hard time finding and maintaing one commitment on that level, let alone poly commitments.

I think that our cultural views on this issue definitely influence our behaviors. And if we are in a strict monogamous culture which punishes sexual behavior outside of marriage, that more people will tow that line, and if our culture allows more sexual experimentation, than more people will experiment. So religion definitely has an influence.

I don't know much about what different pagan paths teach reguarding marriage. But most pagans I know are "free spirits" and no matter what they call themselves...ecclectics. They choose from the buffet. I don't know many strict recons who practice a faith wholecloth. And I think that most buffet goers do that so they can say yes and no to what they like. Not so they can have the choice of eating several hated green veggies.

Know what I mean?

I don't want two husbands. But if I didn't fear what it would do to my marriage...yeah...I'd probably pursue lovers from time to time. I don't fear hell, but I fear hurting/losing my husband. That's what keeps me in line. And I am not totally free of my Christian upbringing. I am not sure that I wouldn't like myself less if I took lovers. I can't help that. I've been stewed in it my whole life.

It has more to do with my overall culture, than my religion as a pagan.

cheddar

[Jenett]

First, a vocab clarification.

Polygamy comes from the Greek words meaning many/multiple (poly) and marriage (gamos). These days, many people prefer the term polyamory (amor, from the Latin, means love, so 'many loves') because it describes more kinds of interactions and relationships. (Also, polygamy is explicitly mentioned in the US legal code in some complex and unfavorable ways.)

You may also see the words polygyny and polyandry. These come from the Greek words for woman and man respectively. They are used to describe relationships of one man, multiple women, or one women, multiple men, respectively.

The place where I think it fits, is if you view Paganism - or rather polytheism - as being open to a range of ideas and possibilites, rather than having One True Way (or One True God). Once you start looking at religion as having many varied options, variations, and paths, it's a bit easier for many people to start saying "Hey, maybe other parts of life can work like that." (What I sometimes refer to as "Embrace the power of 'and'.")

I think it's also a reminder of the baggage most of us carry: a lot of us have some very strong ideas about how relationships 'should' work. One of the things I really value from my time in the poly community has been recognising that there's a variety of ways a healthy, loving, relationship can look, and that love is a good thing, not a bad one. (There are, of course, bad ways to deal with it, or other not-good behaviors.) And I do think that has some direct relevance for my religious life...

I've been in three relationship structures, all poly (a quad, as a secondary partner to a married man, with his wife's encouragement, and for 5 years, had two male partners.) I'm currently relationship (marriage with my husband is over, and I broke up with my other partner due to really needing time to figure out some not-so-good relationship patterns, and figure out what I really want.) None of the relationships ended because of the poly stuff.

In the two cases where it was a factor in some of my decisions to reevaluate, I think the poly stuff made the relationship clearer and easier to see problems in - in other words, made it healthier, rather than not. I've certainly also seen my share of crash and burn - but I can name a bunch of times I've seen that in monogamous situations, too. I chalk that up to "People are people", rather than a particular relationship approach.

Let's see. Other questions. Have I been attacked for it? I lost friends over it in college (when my first relationship started). We've since patched it up. I've had people make a bunch of assumptions about me. (Which can be handy: it tells me a lot about them...) I've had to do a bunch of explaining (much like with religion: I've not been able to assume someone is familiar with concepts, terms, or how I approach things.) That's made me a more articulate person in general, which is a good thing.

And as Raven says, I think there's a tremendous value in diversity, and being open to the fact that people around you may want different things than I do. (I incidentally get just as irked at the people who go on about polyamory being more evolved and monogamy being a sign of societal baggage, as I do at the people who insist that polyamory is totally unhealthy: again, coming at it from 'diversity of viewpoint is good', not insisting people choose a particular one.)

[Kaylara]

I do think that pagans as a whole are more accepting of polyamorous people than society in general. I don't think that means that all pagans accept it or approve of it, just that a larger number of pagans are accepting of it, and kind of take the stance that what happens in another person's bedroom is none of their business.

[Novembers River]

I agree with Kaylara. If someone is in a polygamous relationship it's really none of my business. Also, why would I be concerned if it's not affecting me? To each their own. If it works for them I think it's fine. It's just not for me.

So I guess I'm accepting of it, but simply choose not to partake in that type of relationship.

[Xentor]

I thought there is no single paganism with defined morals and ethics? That people who consider themselves pagans can have all kinds of morals and ethics, ranging from traditional to invented-on-the-spot? If so, then how can paganism be more accepting of anything? Maybe some pagan paths are more accepting, and others can be less so?

[Twinkle]

I thought there is no single paganism with defined morals and ethics? That people who consider themselves pagans can have all kinds of morals and ethics, ranging from traditional to invented-on-the-spot? If so, then how can paganism be more accepting of anything? Maybe some pagan paths are more accepting, and others can be less so?

Yes...some pagan paths are more accepting and some are less so....it depends on the Path.

For example...some Wiccans believe that homosexuality is an affront to the gods...it goes against the whole god/goddess, male/female thing that occurs in nature.

Other Wiccans believe that sexual preference has nothing to do with being able to "be" Wiccan.

[Astara Seague]

I agree with Kaylara. If someone is in a polygamous relationship it's really none of my business. Also, why would I be concerned if it's not affecting me? To each their own. If it works for them I think it's fine. It's just not for me.

So I guess I'm accepting of it, but simply choose not to partake in that type of relationship.
I agree
but if it ever starts affecting myself or my family.. better watch out!

I guess I should add that being from utah, the ones here have given polygamy a very bad name.. Im sure you have heard about it on the news
so them I do not accept but I do feel sorry for some of them in a way

and I must admit I have never thought of pagans as polygamists

[RhiannynWildseed]

I don't think a person's sexuality has anything to do with their spirituality. You make a choice on what kind of relationship lifestyle you want to have. I mean, it seems kind of shallow to me if someone were to say "Well, I'm gay, so I'm going to be a Pagan." or "I want to have more than one lover and live a polyamorous lifestyle, so I'm going to be Pagan." or any other such statement like that. You want to be Pagan because you want to be and you believe in that spirituality, not because you have made a life choice that may be a bit outside social norms.

Yes, a lot of Pagans tend to be understanding and accepting of many lifestyle choices, but there are many that also may not codone certain choices but don't speak out against them. It's all personal preference as to what someone wants to accept or not.

[Jenett]

I mean, it seems kind of shallow to me if someone were to say "Well, I'm gay, so I'm going to be a Pagan." or "I want to have more than one lover and live a polyamorous lifestyle, so I'm going to be Pagan." or any other such statement like that. You want to be Pagan because you want to be and you believe in that spirituality, not because you have made a life choice that may be a bit outside social norms.

Yes and no, on the being shallow. I know that for me, *part* of the decision (certainly not the whole one: maybe a quarter of the reason) I started looking seriously at Paganism in general went like this.

1) I am in a polyamorous relationship.

2) I deeply and sincerely believe that this relationship was put in my life by *some* deity, even if I'm not quite sure why. Even if that weren't true, I feel that sharing love - in whatever format - is a pretty good thing.

3) It is important to me to find a religion - and more specifically a religious community - where I can talk about the people I love *as* people I love.

(And not just 'really good friends', which for many people, starts to feel a whole lot like lying or insincerity after a while: I know for me, it started feeling like I was hiding one part of my life from another part that was very important: people I loved from people I shared my religion with. It got in the way in religious discussions about relationships, taking care of people who needed help, celebrations - all sorts of things.)

4) Ok, so maybe I should look carefully and see what the alternatives are, and figure out what else is important to me, in terms of approach, ethics, etc.

For me, the time after step 4 took about 18 months (and that was with being fairly familiar with Paganism for a non-Pagan) for me to figure out what else was important, what other things I was committed to, etc. and then start looking at various practical options (based on what was available in my area, etc.)

I have no idea if I'll be in a polyamorous relationship in future (I've taken on some obligations/directions in my life that'd make it complicated, in terms of sheer time, but not impossible.) On the other hand, it's helped me learn a lot about balancing different relationships and needs (as I do with my covenmates, my housemates, other circle mates.) with whom I have close and intimate emotional relationships, even though those relationships aren't romantic or sexual.

(There's a point at which I think anyone who's in a small closed coven type setting for more than a few months needs to, in some ways, do some *very* similar stuff to healthy poly relationships. Does everyone want that? No, for all sorts of good reasons. But I think there's more crossover in some places than it looks from the first glance.)

[magickal_realism]

Polyamory is actually pretty common in my community, especially among Pagans. And when I came here, newly single, it created quite a bugaboo for me: I do think of sex as a spiritual practice, but 1)I don't date other Pagans because I've found that their values don't mesh well with mine despite me being Pagan and 2)I'm not polyamourous.

At one point I went from being annoyed to being seriously offended when men who were poly would ask me out, their reasoning being that since my friends were poly, I had to be, too. Then again I also get angry at men who approach me in parking lots and ask for my phone number... it's the basic courtesy of getting to know a person.

So... no, I don't have a problem with other people choosing polyamory or polyamory choosing them. But I do have a big problem with anybody making assumptions just on the grounds that I'm Pagan.

[Zephyrstorm]

I know Pagans who are Polyamorous and Pagans who are uncomfortable with the mere mention of it. I've known swingers too who were Pagan. (and Poly doesn't mean swinger - two completely different animals.)

I'm Poly, but my hubby's Mono. So I just deal. You don't do poly without everyone's okay and everyone's knowledge. Otherwise it bites you in the butt. If communication is the heart of a relationship between two, imagine how much more-so in a relationship between three or a quad.

I was Pagan long before I realized that I'm Poly.

[RhiannynWildseed]

~snip~

Well, even you said yourself that you started looking into it. You didn't just make the leap because of your lifestyle choice. I've known quite a few that have done just that, jump right in because they seem to think that being a Pagan will validate their lifestyle or something. If you want to do something, do it. I mean, if you want to be gay, be gay. If you want a romantic relationship with more than one person and everyone in the relationship is ok with it, more power to you. It's just the one's that seem to want to use Paganism as an excuse as to WHY they chose the lifestyle they did instead of just because that's what they want that bug me.

[Carla O'Harris]

There is good reason to link both particular heretical groups as well as some witchcraft groups with alternative sexualities, and this can be a legitimate tradition for those so drawn to draw upon.

[Dale Ivarie]

although some have said one's spirituality and sexuality are sperate I think a conversation about the prevelance of polyamory in paganism is entirly appropriate.

I have found that there are alot of poly folks who are pagan. I think the percentage of those identifing as "poly" in the pagan community is probably higher than in more mainstream religions...except for mormons of course.

I also think this is in part due to the fact that many pagans rebel against being part of "mainstream" society, and its values. Also I thinks pagan's in general value the individual over the group. In a commited hetro marriage both parties have to sacrifice their own desires for the sake of "the relationship". Poly "open marriages" allow for less personal sacrifice.

Now I know some people may take offense at the above post...It is not intended to "rip on" poly or pagan people. I hang out with both, most of my good friends fall into both categories..

Dale

[La Fortuna]

although some have said one's spirituality and sexuality are sperate I think a conversation about the prevelance of polyamory in paganism is entirly appropriate.

I have found that there are alot of poly folks who are pagan. I think the percentage of those identifing as "poly" in the pagan community is probably higher than in more mainstream religions...except for mormons of course.

I also think this is in part due to the fact that many pagans rebel against being part of "mainstream" society, and its values. Also I thinks pagan's in general value the individual over the group. In a commited hetro marriage both parties have to sacrifice their own desires for the sake of "the relationship". Poly "open marriages" allow for less personal sacrifice.

Now I know some people may take offense at the above post...It is not intended to "rip on" poly or pagan people. I hang out with both, most of my good friends fall into both categories..

Dale

Hi Dale,
Actually there appear to be more personal sacrifices in a poly experience as opposed to a mono relationship.

I have had both, and if it is a threesome, there is someone always left out and feelings are always getting hurt. You may think this is a generalization, however, from my experience and the experience of other poly relationships that I have been privy to, it just does not last for very long. Fine if you are not looking for longevity.

I am Kemetic and do not consider myself pagan. I am not poly in any way shape or form for the last several years.

I read tarot professionally and every single one of the poly relationships brought to me was a disaster in one form or another.

It is nice to believe that we are evolved and sophisticated and mature, however, this is not the case with most people. WE all have feelings and someone will get hurt.

The poly relationships I had were always me (female) and two men. Usually not more than two. I think it is more difficult for the man as there seems to be some competitiveness that surfaces, intentionally or not.

So if you are looking for a vote, I would say it is more difficult to please two partners than one. There is more personal sacrifice because one must divide oneself time and time again. How can a person have a truly intimate relationship without focusing on one person. IMHO, I believe it is not possible to successfully focus on one person in a poly relationship and that poly relationships are very surperficial and a way to avoid true intimacy. No offence intended, just my opinion.

Well, this is only my opinion based on my experience and the experiences of those who have sought counsel with me. Your may be different.

Blessings, La Fortuna _catroll_

[wolf]

I know a lot of pagans who are also poly ... not having a codification of religious law makes that, and a lot of other lifestyle choices easier than in the "big three" (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) religions.

I personally don't do it, and don't approve of it, but YMMV.

[Vincent Verthaine]

We discordians don't seem to mind polygamy at all.
We just tack an a "per head" charge to the bill when we perform discordian weddings for more than two people.
As long as they are all consenting adult, the official Church of Eris Policy Regarding Polygamy is:
As long as their check for the ceremony doesn't bounce,what ever floats their Cherrios.If you can get them to hire our catering company for the ceremony,even better.

[Kaylara]

In a commited hetro marriage both parties have to sacrifice their own desires for the sake of "the relationship". Poly "open marriages" allow for less personal sacrifice.


I disagree highly. And open marriage is different from being Polyamorus. There is no oversight in an open relationship. You can pretty much go out and sleep with who ever you want. In a poly relationship, there are rules, everthing has to be out in the open. It's about having multiple loving intimate relationships. You have to sacrifice a lot more when you're Poly because instead of having to make one partner happy, you're trying to make multiple partners happy.

[Tim]

Anyway, what are your thoughts?, whether you're a polygamist, or not.

I do not see that Paganism (in general) endorses or condones poly relationships; it simply does not specifically disapprove of or denies them.

[Calen]

In a poly relationship, there are rules, everthing has to be out in the open. It's about having multiple loving intimate relationships. You have to sacrifice a lot more when you're Poly because instead of having to make one partner happy, you're trying to make multiple partners happy.

Agreed.

I don't think just anyone can make this sort of relationship work, but I think that when done responsibly, it definitely would require a lot more of a person. For those that can make it work, I see nothing wrong with it at all.

[Malcolm]

The only polygamy I care to be involved with

[Dale Ivarie]

The only polygamy I care to be involved with

that is awesome...:abanana:

Dale

[RhiannynWildseed]

In a commited hetro marriage both parties have to sacrifice their own desires for the sake of "the relationship".

I'm also going to disagree on this point. I've been married, now, just slightly over 9 years...a week over to be exact. While I have made material sacrifices for the good of my family, I have never once had to sacrifice any of my own desires for the sake of my marriage. To make those kind of sacrifices, I think, changes who you are, and if your partner expects you to do that, then why were they interested in you in the first place?

[Kaylara]

I agree totally RW.

[Malcolm]

that is awesome...

tastes good too :cheers:

[Derestanne]

First of all, Pagan Polygamists do exist and I have a sense that there are actually a fair number of them.

Unlike the Christian Mormons in Utah, who seem to have either talent or luck of the draw for getting the unwanted attention of the Feds and the National News, the Pagan Polygamists have mastered the fine art of extreme discretion. Since we almost never see them being dragged naked into police cars, I surmise that they are also very intelligent about their chosen lifestyle as well as discreet, orderly and methodical in their spiritual ways.

Perhaps being both Pagan and Polygamist is a doubly good reason for care and discretion in all of one's habits and practices!

I long ago came to the conclusion that most so called "adults" regardless of personal spiritual beliefs, are far too emotionally immature, possessive, self-centered and insecure to cope with the joys and responsibilities of multiple partners / lovers.

The fact that some individuals have been able to successfully embrace a polygamous way of life for many years gives me pause that the bulk of Humanity will eventually reach the level of emotional and intellectual maturity necessary to realize such a level of openess and joy!

[Twinkle]

I'm also going to disagree on this point. I've been married, now, just slightly over 9 years...a week over to be exact. While I have made material sacrifices for the good of my family, I have never once had to sacrifice any of my own desires for the sake of my marriage. To make those kind of sacrifices, I think, changes who you are, and if your partner expects you to do that, then why were they interested in you in the first place?


I think it depends on the desire. If you desire to skydive but you have a wife who doesn't work and three small children ....you may have to sacrifice that desire because your family needs you and you can't afford to risk your life.

[Birdy]

I have no problem with polyamoury but it kind of gets my back up when polyamourists claim that people are only monogamous because they are "emotionally immature, possesive, self-centered and insecure" whereas polyamourists are at a higher "level of emotional and intellectual maturity."

Different strokes for different folks. Monogomy is not always about jealousy y'know?

[Twinkle]

I personally couldn't be in a poly relationship because I know myself well enough to know that I am jealous...and would not be emotionally able to share my partner.

[Jenett]

I have no problem with polyamoury but it kind of gets my back up when polyamourists claim that people are only monogamous because they are "emotionally immature, possesive, self-centered and insecure" whereas polyamourists are at a higher "level of emotional and intellectual maturity."


It's always gotten my back up, too, and I've been doing the poly thing for how long?

I know some people (a good friend, for example) for whom poly is *much* easier for her than monogamy, when she's got the right balance of approaches in the relationship configuration. She also freely admits that she is all of those not-so-good things sometimes.

As far as longevity: I really think it's hard to tell what's up from the outside. We tend to hear about the messy endings - we don't hear so much about the quieter mature ones when people gently decide to go their own way. People who manage long-term poly relationships are also often very good at not making a big deal out of it.

(And, likewise, most of us can name at least one relationship where people have been married, monogamous, and miserable for years. That's just as much of a problem, in my religious worldview, as a poly-ending-with-extra-drama. Both are unbalanced and liable to cause damage to the people directly involved and others that will affect loving relationships in future.)

I have a good friend (different one) whose two major relationships have been going for over 20 years and over 13 right now. She's had other relationships come and go, some with more drama, some with less (mostly less, in the sense that there might be some heartache or hurt feelings, but it didn't spill over onto other people she or the other person knew much.) Is she successful at what she's doing? I'd say yes - even though she has those ended relationships too.

At the same time, she's pretty quiet about what she does: you wouldn't know she's poly by looking at her life, *except* that she posts periodically on various poly resources. (Otherwise, it would not be clear what her relationship with the partner she doesn't live with is, particularly.)

[Derestanne]

Well I certainly have a bit more explaining of my comments to do.

I though it would go without saying that there are perfectly good (and equally valuable) reasons for one to choose monogamy over polygamy. I certainly do not believe that one is inevitably insecure, possessive, self-centered, etc. for choosing monogamy. I was simply saying that if you drag those issues into a polygamous situation, you are most certainly going to end up with one big mess!

For those of you who guessed that I am a polygamist, you guessed wrong. My wife and I have been in a committed relationship for the past 9 years. However, what took place in my younger years is another matter.

The opinion that I was expressing was simply that long term polygamy requires much more of the heart, mind and soul than a basic one-on-one relationship does.

Anyone is welcome to debate that point of view, but that is the conclusion I reached after talking to people who attempted it and could not keep a polygamous relationship together.

In any case, my intent was not to pronounce all polygamists superior to those who choose monogamy. My intent was to say that I believe that polygamy is a great deal of work, including work on oneself!

[Birdy]

Oops....

I understand now, that makes perfect sense Derestanne. ;)

[9-2-2]

In a commited hetro marriage both parties have to sacrifice their own desires for the sake of "the relationship". Poly "open marriages" allow for less personal sacrifice.

That's not always correct. If there is a marriage where happiness and healthy desires get sacrificed, then there is a problem in the marriage already. Marriage should not be bondage, but a living entity. I've seen married couples who piss and moan about their shackles, and I've seen married couples who fly as birds, never having known a shackle during their time together.

I am with a man who loves movies, sex, and philosophy.
I hate movies, I have a cool libido, and the semantics and short-sightedness that the grand tradition of philosophy has become today just pisses me off.

I don't force him to stop loving philosophy. I would never make him sacrifice his happiness unless it was a danger to others (such as the happiness in killing people). He likewise shows the same respect to me. :-)

[9-2-2]

The opinion that I was expressing was simply that long term polygamy requires much more of the heart, mind and soul than a basic one-on-one relationship does.

I whole-heartedly agree! :-)
A lot of maturity is required, because there are more hearts to step on, while there are more people to happily share your love with.

[Dale Ivarie]

I'm also going to disagree on this point. I've been married, now, just slightly over 9 years...a week over to be exact. While I have made material sacrifices for the good of my family, I have never once had to sacrifice any of my own desires for the sake of my marriage. To make those kind of sacrifices, I think, changes who you are, and if your partner expects you to do that, then why were they interested in you in the first place?

So in 9 years you have never had a desire for another woman, and not acted on it because you are married.....you have never let your spouse make a decision..like buying a car that they really wanted, but you were not that into..you have never gone to a moive, theater show you didn't want to because your spouse did

wow..o.k. then I stand corrected..in your case

Dale

[CleftOfLight]

I see nothing wrong with polygamy,polyamory,or monogamy or staying single.I think they are all valid.The only thing I don't like is how society look down on the poly's and forcing monogamy on everyone.Other than that I am fine with how people choose to live.

[Sage Rainsong]

What I love about Paganism the most is that it values diversity. There is room for monogamy, polyamory, celibacy or whatever you want as long as it's truely consentual. They are all personal choises and one isn't better than the other IMHO. They are all individual choises and they should be respected.

[RhiannynWildseed]

So in 9 years you have never had a desire for another woman, and not acted on it because you are married.....you have never let your spouse make a decision..like buying a car that they really wanted, but you were not that into..you have never gone to a moive, theater show you didn't want to because your spouse did

wow..o.k. then I stand corrected..in your case

Dale

Ok, first off...<<====Female. Don't let the avatar fool you. I just happen to be a huge CSI freak.

And in answering your questions from the female perspective...

No, I've never had the desire for another man since marrying my husband. I can look at guys, even very attractive guys, and say yes, they are gorgeous, but no, even given the chance, I wouldn't sleep with them. I love my husband. He's it for me. He is the other half of my soul. Why would I want anyone else?

Yes, I have let my husband make decisions about things that he wanted and I really thought we didn't need. However, being a good parent, I have asked him first what would serve the family better, having said item, or saving up the money for something else the entire family may need? It is then that it becomes his decision what he'd rather do. Sometimes he has gone ahead and gotten what he's wanted, and other times he has decided that it would be more beneficial to wait. That's not giving up on your desires, that's just being a responsible adult.

I never said that you didn't have to make sacrifices for your family. I just said that the sacrifices, usually, were of a material nature rather than your desires. Just because you may have to put off getting something your really want or doing something you really want to do doesn't mean you give up the desire for it. You simply wait until a better opportunity to follow through on your desires comes along.