vegetarian imbas forosnai?

[PeatBog]

I'm vegetarian, and wonder if modern Celtic pagans have devised a vegetarian version of the imbas forosnai ritual. Do they use Tofurky or what?


“Imbas Forosna, ‘Manifestation that enlightens’: (it) discovers what thing soever the poet likes and which he desires to reveal. Thus then is that done. The poet chews a piece of the red flesh of a pig, or a dog, or a cat, and puts it then on a flagstone behind the door-valve, and chants an incantation over it, and offers it to idol gods, and calls them to him, and leaves them not on the morrow, and then chants over his two palms, and calls again idol gods to him, that his sleep may not be disturbed. Then he puts his two palms on his two cheeks and sleeps. And men are watching him that he may not turn over and that no one may disturb him. And then it is revealed to him that for which he was (engaged) till the end of a nómad (three days and nights), or two or three for the long or the short (time?) that he may judge himself (to be) at the offering. And therefore it is called Imm-bas, to wit, a palm (bas) on this side and a palm on that around his head.
http://dedanaan.com/the-celtic-spirit-world/imbas-forosnai/

[mol]

Moved per authors request! =] Sorry it took so long.

[skilly-nilly]

I'm vegetarian, and wonder if modern Celtic pagans have devised a vegetarian version of the imbas forosnai ritual. Do they use Tofurky or what?


http://dedanaan.com/the-celtic-spirit-world/imbas-forosnai/

I couldn't get your point to open, but when one googles 'imbas forosnai' there are lots of other sites.

I googled because I wanted to point to the reference about the Druid wrapping hirself up in a newly-flayed cow's hide but I couldn't find it at first glance. However, several of the references:

http://www.maryjones.us/jce/imbas.html

http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Article/451202

http://www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/4715/imbasforosnai.html

cite Fionn MacCumhill's chewing his thumb as the origin of the meat-chewing practice.

If I could find it, I would point to the (I believe) Roman reporter who talks about the Druid being tightly wrapped in a bloody hide for some period of time (watched over as in the other points) and emerging with new information.

Before I drifted off into looking up things (so seductive) i was planning a post:

Unless you are going to live an iron-age life, I don't think the attested-to Ancient Ways are the only ways to achieve Imbas. 'Forosnai' is the means by which the state (or knowledge or inspiration) of Imbas is achieved. I don't think that employing the means employed by the ancients is the bottom line; I think that traveling to where the Ancients went is the most important thing. How they did it is a valuable guideline, but if you can get to the same place by other means you're still there, neh?

After googling, I would add:
I'm assuming that flaying cows would be as bad as eating raw dog-meat, but if you chose to do it, would biting your own thumb be acceptable to a vegetarian?

It's a good idea, when looking up things on the intar-wub, to find the same information in at least 3 (the Magic number) places (trying not to get caught in a referential string, that is) before you assume that it's anything but someone's wild fantasy about what-might-have-been.

[Morgandria]

I might substitute a heavy wool blanket, as an animal hide that does not involve killing the animal (as I assume that's one of your objections). I also might use raw hazelnuts to chew, as the fruit of wisdom, rather than raw meat.

[Meadhbh]

It depends on how strict a vegetarian you are. There are those I know who will still eat sea food and fish in general. If thats the case then why not use raw salmon.

[Tadrith]

Or get a blister on the salmon's skin, push it in with your thumb, THEN chew on your thumb ;)

[PeatBog]

Great ideas, everyone. Hazelnuts or salmon would be acceptable for my diet though I seldom eat fish. The wool blanket is an excellent suggestion. Tadrith's idea would be most interesting. :hehehehe:

[Carla O'Harris]

You might be able to get a custom made blanket-sized piece of soy jerky made ...:nyah: I'm sorry, I couldn't resist ...

Seriously, though, the ideas about hazel nuts sound good ... or maybe weaving a special blanket with hazel and other special trees woven into it ... although isn't part of the ritual that the hide has been killed at a particular time when the question is being asked, or am I misremembering? If that is the case, then perhaps one has to have some intervention with something natural, like a branch being broken off at the time of asking ...

[odubhain]

I'm vegetarian, and wonder if modern Celtic pagans have devised a vegetarian version of the imbas forosnai ritual. Do they use Tofurky or what?

The use of meat and bull hides in the ritual practice of imbas forosnai served the purpose in ancient Celtic culture of connecting the power of sacrifice and life force to the Druid's journeying toward imbas and knowledge. The meat was specially raised or offered to the deities for their blessings or lending of power to the offering person/practitioner. If one looks deeper into the lore and practice of imbas forosnai, it can be seen that the source of imbas is the "Sun well" which is empowered by the energy of the Sun. This energy was said to be trapped or concentrated in hazelnuts, salmon and streams from the Sun well.

What is being said about imbas and the Sun in these tales and rituals?

Asking that question should be your guide to how best to achieve a state of imbas forosnai in today's modern world. One can become the Hazel Tree (Mac Cuill), the Sun (Mac Greine), the Well (Mac Lir) and the Salmon/Boar/Bull/Dog/Thumb/Flesh of sacrifice (Mac Cécht) during successive transitions of meditative focus to journey to the place where there is "no yours or mine."

Crack the Kernels,
Chant the Songs,
Sail the Seas,
Drink the Streams,
Cut the Scores,
Seek the Source,
Become the Brightness,
Illuminate the Darkness,
Celebrate the Course,

One was for Foundation.
One was for Dedication
Wisdom was the Joy and the Despair.

Celebration was the child of their union.
Knowledge was the gift.
Sacrifice was the Stone that cried out one's name.

Truth was not in us
Until we were not.

My apologies for attempting a rosc but the spirit moved me. :-) IMO and in my practice of the Druid way, I think that the sacrifice can be of one's self in many forms. The life force can also be a part of one's own without being taken from another. Creating a creature of one's self to offer as a sacrifice or vehicle for obtaining imbas does not have to threaten one's physical existence though it does mean that one should stand dangerously close to one's own truth in being to be able to see beyond the walls of ego and illusion into primal being and places of magic.

Sacrifice one's bull in speaking and acting by being open to answers.
Wrap one's self in the earth's arms to embrace the life beyond the middle.
Wear the leaves that write self knowledge in every strand of their growth.
Become the sun bubble by seeking the Sun's blessings.
Cut the bindings of illusion using the Moon's blade on the 6th day.
Chew the thumb that misdirects you until it screams out your true name.

It is an eye that looks within.
It is an ear that hears the music of what is happening.
It is a skin that is the world's.
It is a taste of promise.
It is the smell of the Salmon's death on the floor of the forest.

We are all someone's food, in some way, in every way, as we journey from one life to another. What better gifts than to exchange Life for Knowledge or Knowledge for Life?

Into the golden portal.
Thrill to the embrace of the other.
Meet the challenge and never forget the thread.

Searles O'Dubhain