Broom Closet-sort of issue (long post)

[phoenix9]

Hey All,

I have a bit of a dilemma...

first the short version: I am a Neopagan. Do my parents know this? not really. and? well, theres a Mabon festival next Saturday only about 5 miles from my house.. Advice?

Now the long version:

First, Background (more than is relevant, in fact, skim this paragraph unless you really care): I am 16... I have been, for the last couple years, been doing quite a bit of self-exploration and theological/spiritual/religious searching. First I was a Christian (as I was raised), then I was an atheist, then a Christian again, then Agnostic (or Theist, as I put it, believing in "some god" but not sure want). In 9th Grade, in World History I, I began for the first time to seriously look at the others. At first I liked Islam .. but its still very Monotheistic and somewhat Patriarchal. Then I kinda liked Hinduism, but I dislike the Caste System and then I discovered the Ashvamedha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha) ritual .. necrophiliac bestiality.. not my cup of tea. So next was my Buddhism kick.. which hasn't really completely ended. Anyway .. thats when I discovered that there are more than 4 religions in the world (*gasp*). Back in the day, as a like 6-9 year old I used to "pretend" I was a witch .. I stopped when we (my family) were going to a party at some Protestant (old Protestant, like Methodist or Baptist or something) church and my mom gave me a lecture about how "she believed I might have some special powers [like I thought] but these people thought people who claimed to be witches worship the devil".. that freaked me out cause I was still a naive proto-Christian so I stopped. During that time I think I experienced one true interaction with the gods: during a placement test for my school system's Gifted Program, I was stuck on a question and closed my mind and prayed to/invoked the "Great Spirit, Wind of the East" (don't know why my second-grade mind picked that term, but it did) and suddenly knew the answer (this test completely changed life.. so I like to think this was the gods, particularly Athena's, direct intervention in my life). Recalling this, in 10th Grade, I found myself inspired to (half-kiddingly) pray to Athena before an AP Euro test... and I was surprised to suddenly feel much more comfortable, less-stressed, and ready. This was my breakthrough ... I read the "Wicca" and "Neopaganism" articles on Wikipedia, and among a lot of random other things, I found this site via a Google search for "Athenic Wicca" (I had heard of Dianic Wicca and was making things up). Within a couple weeks I was praying to Athena about 5 times a day and reading this site and a few others. Then I kinda was absorbed mostly back into the mundane world, though I didn't abandon Neopagan life.. (for example, when my Grandma died, I went to the Funeral which was Christian, but the whole time really prayed to Athena to guide me through this time (which is kinda disrespectful, I should have been more respectful to her god in his temple, but at this time I was still being very Monotheistic with my worship of Athena.. polytheism was still hard on my quai-Christian mindframe).

Now fast forward to this summer, I have done a couple Neopagan central things ..I read Drawing Down the Moon. This was clearly the most obvious sign my parents have seen. At this time, my mom and I had a conversation about paganism .. she said that she believed in some of the points (Sacred Feminine, respect for nature, forces in the universe (particularly love)) but she said "pleas don't become a pagan" .. I asked why and her reply was "too many crazies" .. I was somewhat offended (although some of the threads here seem to confirm her judgment :-( ) and became a little more veiled about my beliefs (deleting browser histories when I was browsing pagan sites, buying no more books (even reading a couple (critical) ones on Christianity), etc.) I pretty much dropped the issue and went back to only subtle practice. Then I (on a whim) bought the Principia Discordia, I had heard of Discordianism before and thought it sounded interesting.. I have been dedicating a lot of time to it, I love the humor and think the philosophy is VERY true and interesting (I take it a little more seriously than most, perhaps too seriously). I have been less guarded about my Discordianism. I have been carrying the Principia around in my backpack (though I have a bible in there too, I like to study it as fiction/history and have it handy when I need to find biblical support for an argument (which can be surprisingly effective for discussion with a group of even lax Christians), reading the Illuminatus! Trilogy (and making others who I think will appreciate it read it), having long discussions about the philosophy of it all, and celebrating to a ridiculous amount when they named the dwarf planet formerly known as "Xena" as Eris (it made me really happy). I think this should be a hint about my Neopaganism (as well as my pursuance of meditation). I think, however, that my parents are still largely unaware (or in denial).

Now I come to the real issue. Next weekend, September 23rd, the local Pagan shop (which I came across via WitchVox) is having a large Mabon & Pagan Pride Day festival. If it was at their normal location it would still not be important. It is, however, not--- it is at a local park no more than five miles from my house (and I have a car). I REALLY want to go.. but I don't know what to do about my parents. I could just not go, but I really want to. I could try de-closeting myself.. but that is iffy.. I'm not sure how they will react. I really should, pretty much everyone else (all my friends and some random strangers) know I am a Neopagan.. I should just tell my parents... but, like I said, they are Christians .. and are mad I don't go to church more often. On the other hand, they might accept it and let me be more open (buy more books, set up an altar.. we have just remodeled my bedroom.. and I have the perfect place for one, etc.).. *sigh* Option two is to just sneak around.. but I don't really like lying to them.. and they might get mad later if they found out later. Also, I expect there will be candles, incense, jewelry (a pentacle perhaps) there that I would like to buy, and if I don't tell them about my NP-ness.. I will have to not buy or hide that.

I have talked to one of my open-minded friends (ex-GF in fact) who is something of a Buddhists, but kinda likes Neopaganism, and she says she'd LOVE to go and has already talked to her mom about it (but her mom is something of an agnostic).. so now she really wants me to go too.. and like I said I REALLY WANT TO GO (I think it could be a wonderful experience for me and could really help me along my path (though I'm not sure what that is .. since I'm not a giant fan of Wicca (its mythology/pantheon confused/confounds/almost annoys me))..

*sigh* well its late, so I have to go .. but .. essentially.. What would you recommend I do?

Thanks All and Blessed Be,

~Phoenix9

[Avalanche]

You could try giving as little information to your parents as possible. Tell them you'll be gone for a while. If they ask, say you'll be hanging out with your friend. If you're comfortable, say you don't know exactly what you're going to do, but you'll be home at a certain time and you'll check in at some point. I used to do this all the time, and my mom was fortunately not too horribly nosey.

At some point, you should tell your parents, or let them know, that you're not Christian. You could write a letter if you don't want to actually talk. Or talk to the parent you're most comfortable with. It can be really simple by just telling them how you feel/believe, or you could actually have a discussion with them and let them know why you believe what you do, why Christianity doesn't fit for you, etc.

My parents are Catholic and when I was 15, I started to really feel that something wasn't right. I had some books on Wicca and other things like that which I kept hidden. My stepdad actually threw them away when he found them. It was hard for me to tell my parents how I felt, but eventually, I told them that being Catholic didn't work for me. They accepted it and don't make me go to church now. They were in denial and assumed it was a phase or something. Stepdad still thinks that way. I felt more comfortable with my mom, so I just kind of let her know. I had a bonfire in the middle of the night, climbed on my roof with a sword and paintball gun and yelled, "Hail Loki!" as loud as I could. For some reason, I found that easier than talking to her. She got the message and tries not to think about it.

And there's crazies in any religion. Muslims have their terrorists, Christians have... crazies. I'll get a picture of one of them sometime for your mom. Most parents probably don't want their children to convert whether or not they think the other religion has too many crazies, especially if they believe their way is the only way to be "saved" or something. They might feel they did something wrong or feel like they failed in some way.

[mystic_zoe]

^^ i agree with what has just been said!
i do think you should tell your parents though,in my case, my mum sort of knows and my dad knows im interested in it.
why dont you tell you parents you are going to the Mabon festival, but just tell them you are going because your friend wants you to go with her...or something like that....then come back and say oh that was interesting and go from there...if you know what i mean...
but yeah i think at some point you should tell them, because i mean your friends know, so in my opinion, you should let your parents know.
but maybe you could just tell them you are interested in learning more about neo-paganism. then let them know you are a pagan or whatever your chosen path is.

i know it may be hard, but once it is out there it will get better.

xx

[covenofkeys]

i disagree. be strong and tell them how you feel.-lying will only make it worse, anyhow. maybe you'll get away with lying, maybe you wont-either way you'll feel crappy about it.
after you have told your parents, {and you need to tell them in an appropriste way,} tell them of this gathering. explain that it may help you to discover your true self.youre 16 and a young adult, and they may still see you as a child who needs rescuing from all the worlds badness. you sound pretty mature to me, and you obviously feel an attatchment or calling to your current path.do not give up-if they kick off, its because they are worried,and want to keep you safe. this world is a place of discovery,if you are allowed a little leway.of course you will come across some negative aspects of people,or places in the world, but how will you grow in strength as a person if you are not allowed?
not sure of the laws where you live, but in G.B/england, a child becomes an adult at 16, can legally smoke, leave home,etc. -what im saying, is that if the law for you is the same,-you could legally go to this, and they can not stop you, but honesty is the best way,-if you lie to them, and they find out, you will never get their trust back in all probability.
if you lie and get away with it, you will always remember that you lied to them.
you must find your own ground now-tell them firmly,but softly that this is what you want right now. explain that you understand their love for you, and you love them, and nothing can change that, but right now, this is important to you.
{sometimes parents see their little children growing up -oh so fast, and they find it a little hard to let go...this is normal,imagine something you have treasured for so so long,{an animal-dog for instance}-now
it wants to go off and do its own thing-but you have always gone through things in life together....you would probably be a little worried, possessive,-
catch my drift?
everyone goes through something like this, at somepoint with the dreaded parents!lol youre not the first and you sure as anything wont be the last-but stick to your guns-if all else fails, nag them blind until they let ya go{well they nag{parents}-dont they?!}

good luch,
blessed be,
nightshade.

[Zephyrstorm]

I actually agree with covenofkeys.
Be honest, and tell them about the gathering. In fact, if you feel brave, invite them to come with. If you let them in where they can see what you're doing, its possible that they'll feel less threatened by the idea of paganism.

*shrug* It's really up to you, and you know your parents a lot better than we do.

[ladyraven]

Definately be honest. If you're mom told you when you were little that you had power, then I would be talking to her first. She might take the news better. If she understands, then you both should talk to your dad. I don't know, maybe it's just be but if your mom recognized something like that in you, maybe she has some exposure to the craft that she's never talked about. Even if your parents don't understand, at least they know. You should never lie, especially about your beliefs.

[Amelserru_halqu]

I prefer not to involve my parents in my spiritual life, they are ignorent and intolerent, though my mom accepts my psychic abilities, calls me a prophet she does, regardless do what you want to, and remain hidden, it's safer, and it keeps your parents happy, so win-win. If they do find out, be brutally honest, and make them read whatever literature you've read. Hide nothing once discovered.

[Nitefalle]

I know that when I was your age, my mother (Catholic) was much more comfortable with the idea that I was exploring all other religions (though in her mind, that equaled other venues of Christianity) - I didn't zero in on Paganism b/c I know that would flip her out. However, you truly are interested in most other religions, as you have said that you researched most of the well-known paths, and you can explain that to them as well. Say that this festival will help you explore one certain path, but that you are also exploring others - you could show them the Bible in your backpack. I think this might be the best method of approach, especially as your mom seems to be okay with most characteristics of Neo Paganism, but is just turned off by the term "Pagan" and the crazies it brings to her mind.

[morningstar2651]

Hey All,

I have a bit of a dilemma...

first the short version: I am a Neopagan. Do my parents know this? not really. and? well, theres a Mabon festival next Saturday only about 5 miles from my house.. Advice?

Now the long version:

First, Background (more than is relevant, in fact, skim this paragraph unless you really care): I am 16... I have been, for the last couple years, been doing quite a bit of self-exploration and theological/spiritual/religious searching. First I was a Christian (as I was raised), then I was an atheist, then a Christian again, then Agnostic (or Theist, as I put it, believing in "some god" but not sure want). In 9th Grade, in World History I, I began for the first time to seriously look at the others. At first I liked Islam .. but its still very Monotheistic and somewhat Patriarchal. Then I kinda liked Hinduism, but I dislike the Caste System and then I discovered the Ashvamedha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha) ritual .. necrophiliac bestiality.. not my cup of tea. So next was my Buddhism kick.. which hasn't really completely ended. Anyway .. thats when I discovered that there are more than 4 religions in the world (*gasp*). Back in the day, as a like 6-9 year old I used to "pretend" I was a witch .. I stopped when we (my family) were going to a party at some Protestant (old Protestant, like Methodist or Baptist or something) church and my mom gave me a lecture about how "she believed I might have some special powers [like I thought] but these people thought people who claimed to be witches worship the devil".. that freaked me out cause I was still a naive proto-Christian so I stopped. During that time I think I experienced one true interaction with the gods: during a placement test for my school system's Gifted Program, I was stuck on a question and closed my mind and prayed to/invoked the "Great Spirit, Wind of the East" (don't know why my second-grade mind picked that term, but it did) and suddenly knew the answer (this test completely changed life.. so I like to think this was the gods, particularly Athena's, direct intervention in my life). Recalling this, in 10th Grade, I found myself inspired to (half-kiddingly) pray to Athena before an AP Euro test... and I was surprised to suddenly feel much more comfortable, less-stressed, and ready. This was my breakthrough ... I read the "Wicca" and "Neopaganism" articles on Wikipedia, and among a lot of random other things, I found this site via a Google search for "Athenic Wicca" (I had heard of Dianic Wicca and was making things up). Within a couple weeks I was praying to Athena about 5 times a day and reading this site and a few others. Then I kinda was absorbed mostly back into the mundane world, though I didn't abandon Neopagan life.. (for example, when my Grandma died, I went to the Funeral which was Christian, but the whole time really prayed to Athena to guide me through this time (which is kinda disrespectful, I should have been more respectful to her god in his temple, but at this time I was still being very Monotheistic with my worship of Athena.. polytheism was still hard on my quai-Christian mindframe).

Now fast forward to this summer, I have done a couple Neopagan central things ..I read Drawing Down the Moon. This was clearly the most obvious sign my parents have seen. At this time, my mom and I had a conversation about paganism .. she said that she believed in some of the points (Sacred Feminine, respect for nature, forces in the universe (particularly love)) but she said "pleas don't become a pagan" .. I asked why and her reply was "too many crazies" .. I was somewhat offended (although some of the threads here seem to confirm her judgment :-( ) and became a little more veiled about my beliefs (deleting browser histories when I was browsing pagan sites, buying no more books (even reading a couple (critical) ones on Christianity), etc.) I pretty much dropped the issue and went back to only subtle practice. Then I (on a whim) bought the Principia Discordia, I had heard of Discordianism before and thought it sounded interesting.. I have been dedicating a lot of time to it, I love the humor and think the philosophy is VERY true and interesting (I take it a little more seriously than most, perhaps too seriously). I have been less guarded about my Discordianism. I have been carrying the Principia around in my backpack (though I have a bible in there too, I like to study it as fiction/history and have it handy when I need to find biblical support for an argument (which can be surprisingly effective for discussion with a group of even lax Christians), reading the Illuminatus! Trilogy (and making others who I think will appreciate it read it), having long discussions about the philosophy of it all, and celebrating to a ridiculous amount when they named the dwarf planet formerly known as "Xena" as Eris (it made me really happy). I think this should be a hint about my Neopaganism (as well as my pursuance of meditation). I think, however, that my parents are still largely unaware (or in denial).

Now I come to the real issue. Next weekend, September 23rd, the local Pagan shop (which I came across via WitchVox) is having a large Mabon & Pagan Pride Day festival. If it was at their normal location it would still not be important. It is, however, not--- it is at a local park no more than five miles from my house (and I have a car). I REALLY want to go.. but I don't know what to do about my parents. I could just not go, but I really want to. I could try de-closeting myself.. but that is iffy.. I'm not sure how they will react. I really should, pretty much everyone else (all my friends and some random strangers) know I am a Neopagan.. I should just tell my parents... but, like I said, they are Christians .. and are mad I don't go to church more often. On the other hand, they might accept it and let me be more open (buy more books, set up an altar.. we have just remodeled my bedroom.. and I have the perfect place for one, etc.).. *sigh* Option two is to just sneak around.. but I don't really like lying to them.. and they might get mad later if they found out later. Also, I expect there will be candles, incense, jewelry (a pentacle perhaps) there that I would like to buy, and if I don't tell them about my NP-ness.. I will have to not buy or hide that.

I have talked to one of my open-minded friends (ex-GF in fact) who is something of a Buddhists, but kinda likes Neopaganism, and she says she'd LOVE to go and has already talked to her mom about it (but her mom is something of an agnostic).. so now she really wants me to go too.. and like I said I REALLY WANT TO GO (I think it could be a wonderful experience for me and could really help me along my path (though I'm not sure what that is .. since I'm not a giant fan of Wicca (its mythology/pantheon confused/confounds/almost annoys me))..

*sigh* well its late, so I have to go .. but .. essentially.. What would you recommend I do?

Thanks All and Blessed Be,

~Phoenix9
How do you think your parents would react if you told them the truth?

Also, you might be interested in reading up on Greek Religion, since that appears to be what interests you. Here is a good book (http://www.mysticwicks.com/shop/shop.php?c=mw05&n=1000&i=0674362810&x=Greek_Religion).

PS - the last recorded performance of the Ashvamedha ritual was 4th century AD. It's not a required ritual of the religion.

[Darbla]

Most Christians I know (and that's almost EVERYBODY I know) are not receptive to paganism at all. I've already been accused of "devil worship" and that couldn't be further from the truth. Now I hide stuff better and keep my mouth shut. It's pretty miserable, so I know what you're going through, but it's the best thing I can do for RIGHT NOW. Note I said "for right now". All things must come to an end, even the misery you're going through at the moment.

You may decide it's worth trying to talk to them; you're in a better position to decide that than anyone on this forum, and that's really your choices: tell them or don't tell them. My situation right now is impossible, but I'm hoping for a freer future. Good luck.

Darbla

[ajna]

I have to agree on giving them as little information as possible. ie: "Hey, I was thinking of hanging out with -insert ex's name here- on -insert day-." and if you wish "there's this festival thing nearby that she wanted to check out and I thought it would be cool".

Now understand that this advice is coming from a person who has yet to tell her family anything. My whole family is christian and they all have strong gifts (they just explain it away as "normal" instead of nurturing them) -- how strange is that...

[demonique]

Sounds like you're a smart, strong-minded person with her heart in the right place. What you ultimately do, of course, will depend more on your relationship with your parents than on what any of us believe is the right course of action. After all, you know them - and we don't. But it seems to me that two good options have been presented:

1) Tell them the truth, or a variant of it (interested in all religions), hope for the best - if you believe they'll be at least /somewhat/ receptive. Sounds like your mother could be, but again, you know her better than I do.
2) Tell them the basics - you'll be with a friend, at an autumn festival, you'll check in, etc. etc. As another poster said, afterward, it might even provide an opening for more conversation on the whole paganism thing.

Either sounds plausible to me, and both could lead to a new understanding between you and your parents. Your mother's wording: "please don't become a pagan" indicates that she wouldn't /like/ it, but she's also not outright telling you that if you do, you're off to hell and will be booted out the door with all your worldly possessions, either. Sounds like more heart to heart and honest conversation could be a good thing. But again - you are the only one who really knows.

In any case, I'm not certain your parents will react to the Mabon festival with hostility. Especially if you said that you're only interested in seeing what it's about, going with a friend, having a good time, and exploring. Saying that it's a vital part of your current religion and you feel called by the spirits to attend may not be the be the best way to go about it. ;-) But you can be honest with what you're doing & where you're going without giving away every detail in what you believe, or what it's all about at the core.

Honesty usually works best - either of the two options above present some honesty. One with more detail than the other, but both honest enough that I wouldn't consider it 'sneaking around'.

[phoenix9]

Thanks for all the advice so far. I still haven't acted yet, but I'm building up resolve. I may try a letter, but I think I'm just gonna have a conversation and the degree of truthfulness will flow from how it goes (with the goal being complete admission)..

Quick question, though, <Nevermind too late for that question now (had to do with timing that has now passed) .. thanks for all the other help, though.. I'll let you know if/when I act (which should be tommorow) >

Thanks,
~Phoenix9

[phoenix9]

Double post for the sake of bump:

So.. I did it.. sort of .. I talked to my mom about my beliefs and about the Mabon festival. I got as good a reaction as I could probably hope for.. she's not a fundamentalist so she had no "you are worshiping the devil" complex and she understands my general maturity and sincerity so no "its just a phase" complex either.

Her concerns focus around my supposed naivety (which I can sort of take offensively, but since it is out of concern, I am trying not to). She still has aversions to the idea of "paganism" (and a hard time taking it seriously, or at least she did initially) and a strong prejudice against "witchcraft" and Wicca (not that I am particularly Wiccan myself... but its a distinction that is at least currently not within her grasp). She still thinks of a group of extremists dancing around fires (which is morally or socially wrong...why? ) and ritually sacrificing animals (correct me if I'm wrong, but the vast majority of you do not sacrifice animals). She worries about my involvement with "anti-social fringe" organizations and such....

I realize she is just looking in my best interest.. but I am disappointed somewhat .. *sigh* .. and she didn't leave me (she had to go to a dinner meeting) with an entirely clear answer on whether or not I can go to the festival...

*sigh* .. Iono.. I'm glad to have gotten it off my chest, but now I'm just stressed about how she will react as time goes on. And I'm really clueless as per what my dad will say/think ..

Well .. this isn't a proper closing but.. ... the end?

To All of You, Blessed Be,

~Phoenix9

[Amelserru_halqu]

Yeah most pagans don't sacrifice animals, sure the exitement may provide a quick boost to your spells, but eventually you need more and more until you get like the aztecs, whole lot of blood, little effect. Besides what's the point in being a cliche?

More importantly congrats on the tolerent parents, hope you enjoy the festival.

[Aleannah]

let her read your books...let her ask you whatever questions she wants to ask...let her come here. Be open and honest, because you've gotten the hardest part over with, and now she is scared for you (and your soul), and she needs reassurance. Invite her to the local metaphysical store, go in with her, and let her look around. She will be uncomfortable, but once she learns that it's really just a store with merchandise, and she can get whatever info she wants there as well, then maybe she'll feel better about your choice of path. JMO :hugz:

[Nitefalle]

How about this - invite her to the fair?? She might even have fun, tons of people love to celebrate Autumn, no matter their religious leanings

[phoenix9]

How about this - invite her to the fair?? She might even have fun, tons of people love to celebrate Autumn, no matter their religious leanings

Yea.. that was suggested before and I thought of it.. I threw it our there.. but she doesn't like the idea .. and she and my dad have to go somewhere Saturday (which to be fair.. I didn't know until I talked to her just before coming home from school).

Well as Aleannah said.. the hardest part is over for me. I saw my copy of Drawing Down the Moon on her bedside table, so she is trying.. although she seems to be making a half-ditch, she went and bought "Lost Christianities" (a book by Bart Ehrman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman), more well known for his "Misquoting Jesus") and seems to be reading it..

Surprisingly my dad seems completely unphased, although he may be more concerned then he let on..

Anyway .. .I will update when/if anything else happens.

Blessed Be All.. and for those that read this tomorrow, Blessed Mabon!!! (at least for the last hour or two if you are in the US.. and want to be technical about it)

~Phoenix9

[catgirl]

Congrats on coming out of the broom closet to your parents. Good for you. Hopefully your mom will do some research and be just fine with it. I'm sure there is a book out there about relatives being pagan. Maybe someone can let you know what the title is. It escapes me at the moment.

Blessed Mabon

[phoenix9]

Went to the festival .. it was fun. I felt slightly uncomfortable but no more than I am any other time I'm around a group of strangers (I'm always really shy initially, then become really outgoing/talkative/exuberant as soon as I am comfortable with people), although I felt like the fact that my mom probably didn't want me to feel too comfortable probably had a negative effect on my enjoyment.

The main ritual was a Symbel (with apple juice rather than ale) .. I'm not big on Ásatrú usually, but many of the toasts were quite moving and I really did feel the communal feeling it strives for. Also I got a nice pentacle (which my mom just noticed and is not all to happy about .. ah well) (see picture). Overall, I'm very glad I went and I hope that my coming out will be beneficial in the long run.

~Phoenix9