Defining deities...

[Philosophia]

I'm curious to how you define deities in Pantheism?

Its something I'm very interested in.

[bshore]

Pantheism by definition (at least, the definition as I understand it) doesn't define dieties. It sees everything as sacred, though, so I guess you could say that everything is a diety.

For me, things get sticky when I try to "define" or "pin down" the idea of diety. I prefer to think that this huge energy or spirit (or the force) which permeates everything has some sort of central point where all the energies meet, but I don't like defining it as "A Diety".

[Kaylara]

Ok, for me the concept of deity is a bit complex so please bear with my explaination.

I think that when there is a need, a being steps into the vacancy. Eventually these beings become what we call deity. That being said, they're all a part of the greater cosmos. So the totality of the universe it the divine, and everything that's included in it. But what we call gods and goddesses are beings that have found a good source of energy for themselves and use it to the mutual benefit of themselves and their worshippers. We give energy by focusing, and we attribute certain things to certain gods or goddesses, and so over time the beings conform to those attributes.

[Rhisiart]

Pantheism by definition (at least, the definition as I understand it) doesn't define dieties. It sees everything as sacred, though, so I guess you could say that everything is a diety.

For me, things get sticky when I try to "define" or "pin down" the idea of diety. I prefer to think that this huge energy or spirit (or the force) which permeates everything has some sort of central point where all the energies meet, but I don't like defining it as "A Diety".

This is my definition as well. I only refer to The Universe as God since it is a power greater than myself to the Nth, though since I have no afterlife beliefs neither do I have localization for Universal energies. One could say that the focus would be the point of origin of everything, but then my beliefs go beyond this just being the one Universe and being a part of a much greater Multiverse, where the death of one leads to the birth or re-birth of another, much like stars do in our Universe.

BUT as far as deity goes, I may use a particular name that has been associated with a characteristic of humanity or nature to help connect me when Im doing some works or connect me with others who believe in deity, but on the whole I believe there is no gods to hear, answer or even care of my calls. Its my opinion that to believe in gods planning and playing with creation, death and the happenings of living things and nature help stall the learning and increase of knowledge on how and why things happen in reality. Its sounds good to children and the uneducated but its been allowed to propogate past the advent of science and kept humans in the dark ages for far too long. But hey if it gets you where you need to go...

[Serendipity]

This is really interesting to me. When I first came to this site someone suggested I look into Pantheism. Apparently I didn't look into it hard enough or the sites I ran into placed way more into deities than I liked. But from the ideas posted in this forum I'm thinking I may have to look back into Pantheism.

I'm in total 100% agreement to what Rhisiart has said.

I just figured I was a 'Me' and my beliefs didn't have a name. lol

[Xentor]

Agreeing with Kaylara and Rhisiart.

If we're all part of the same energy, deities must be part of the same energy as well. The only reason I can think of to call a deity a deity thus, is the amount of influence they wield.

Thus equating the creator of the current universe with god, the most powerful deity at the moment of creation.

[Rhisiart]

This is really interesting to me. When I first came to this site someone suggested I look into Pantheism. Apparently I didn't look into it hard enough or the sites I ran into placed way more into deities than I liked. But from the ideas posted in this forum I'm thinking I may have to look back into Pantheism.

I'm in total 100% agreement to what Rhisiart has said.

I just figured I was a 'Me' and my beliefs didn't have a name. lol

Well thank you AF, but there are 3 different kinds of Pantheism. I am of the Natural section, while i believe Others are more Classical. I havent heard from any biblical pantheists here yet but think they are here no doubt. If you get a chance, at the bottome of Xentors sig is a link to the Dialogues of Checkerism, which though I think lends a little more towards Classic Pantheism still lends much to base pantheistic beliefs, plus there in really neat student/teacher Confucius style!

I am a science and logic based person and the aurguements that no-proof equals possibility doesnt hold the same merit with me anymore. It is also my belief that one of the biggest problems with humanity has been the belief of deity based spirituality, as evident with the current happenings in the middle east and thru various times thru-out history. The Devil made me do it...God told me that we were his people...only those who believe will be saved...man blames and depends too much on deity and the supernatural. We fritter this life away because we believe the next to be better, that gods will reward us or deny us entry and instead of moving forward and evolving as human beings, we stay stuck in the stone ages with ancient supernatural beliefs.

We treat each other by some religious moral code rather than as like beings who deserve the same rights as all...abortion, marriage, voting rights, LIVING rights...the Baltics, Middle East, Africa, etc, etc...and this isnt because of some influence by gods or deity, this is influence of human emotion and instinct given fuel BECAUSE of the belief in gods and deity. When is this going to become evident to others and the world stops and changes it beliefs to better the future of mankind? Im not putting down anyones beliefs by the way. If what you believe helps you be a better human being, not condescending or self-righteous, helpful and caring, not prejudice, paranoid or hateful of other beliefs, then Im all for it! Unfortunately there are very few of those with varied beliefs that act that way, and none seem to be in any position of power or influence.

But mine is just one of several hundred and more and some will believe the same, and some wont! This is simply mine. Im glad if it fits you too!

[Serendipity]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, Rhisiart. Well said and I absolutely agree. I would very much like to comment more but I'm certain I would offend someone so I'll just have to leave it at this. ;)

[bshore]

Well said, Rhisiart. I was going to poke you for it, but apparantly I've been poking you too recently.:abadpoker

[Birdy]

I just figured I was a 'Me' and my beliefs didn't have a name. lol

Lol, so did I for a long time, but we're out there, we're very very very rare, and few understand what we believe, but we are out there!

[Birdy]

I am a science and logic based person and the aurguements that no-proof equals possibility doesnt hold the same merit with me anymore. It is also my belief that one of the biggest problems with humanity has been the belief of deity based spirituality, as evident with the current happenings in the middle east and thru various times thru-out history. The Devil made me do it...God told me that we were his people...only those who believe will be saved...man blames and depends too much on deity and the supernatural. We fritter this life away because we believe the next to be better, that gods will reward us or deny us entry and instead of moving forward and evolving as human beings, we stay stuck in the stone ages with ancient supernatural beliefs.

We treat each other by some religious moral code rather than as like beings who deserve the same rights as all...abortion, marriage, voting rights, LIVING rights...the Baltics, Middle East, Africa, etc, etc...and this isnt because of some influence by gods or deity, this is influence of human emotion and instinct given fuel BECAUSE of the belief in gods and deity. When is this going to become evident to others and the world stops and changes it beliefs to better the future of mankind? Im not putting down anyones beliefs by the way. If what you believe helps you be a better human being, not condescending or self-righteous, helpful and caring, not prejudice, paranoid or hateful of other beliefs, then Im all for it! Unfortunately there are very few of those with varied beliefs that act that way, and none seem to be in any position of power or influence.

But mine is just one of several hundred and more and some will believe the same, and some wont! This is simply mine. Im glad if it fits you too!

:abadpoker I need to spread some more karma around the community...

[Eleisawolf]

Being that God is everything and everything is God, well, defining "gods" (note the small "g" to aid in avoiding confusion) is indeed difficult for pantheism. However, I do have an odd little definition of my own that I will present for the sake of consideration...

I have two gods. They have appeared to me in meditation. They've actually been with me since I was a little girl. However, they are not entirely entities in their own right.

When I was young, my parents had several American Indian prayers in a plaque on their wall. One was a Tewa Pueblo prayer to "Mother Earth" and "Father Sky." This prayer strongly affected me and as an adult I adopted it as one way of defining my worldview. Through all that time, I had encounters with an old man's face in the clouds. I also had experiences of relation to all living things, and that we were all embraced by the land we live on. These were, to me, Father Sky and Mother Earth. In my Catholic upbringing, the old man was that god, but he never seemed to fit quite right there.

When I first started learning about Paganism, the connections I had were Wiccan, so I related the two to the goddess and god in that system of belief. But as my understanding of how I see the universe evolves, they evolve with me, and I understand that they are my own mind relating to how I see the universe. Now, that doesn't mean they aren't real in that sense--they are very real, as meditating on them and their reality in my life can help me work through problems, focus gratitude, etc. But they, like us, are just other elements of a single entity--which is life, the universe, and everything (42).

Does that make sense? They are outside of me, but at the same time, they come from me. They are the manifestation of my way of connecting to the universe. The gods are how I, through my own unique experience and existence, connect with God.

:spaceman:

Peace